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Post by spoton on Aug 25, 2024 13:47:41 GMT
I was at the game yesterday and beforehand I was expecting a very difficult game against an unbeaten physically strong team. There were individual moments in the game that I could be critical with but left the game impressed by some individual performances from the Stoke team that is very promising for the future. In reality there was not much between the sides. We had the best two players on show in Koumas and Junho. The two goals we conceded were poor but with a fraction more luck would have outscored West Brom. For the first time in a long while we had a player running in behind the opposition and scoring. When Gallagher is fit this can open up more room for Koumas. Schumacher is doing a great job! Get off his back! Support your team rather than criticising every single little mistake. This has to be a joke post surely. [/quote He normally posts absolute rubbish
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Post by spoton on Aug 25, 2024 13:49:33 GMT
This has to be a joke post surely. You have a very appropriate nom de plume "Scrotnig" I won't enter into a debate with a Scrot! The vast amount of people have only to look back at the game and will agree with me. Come back to me in at the end of the season and admit what a "Scrot" you were![/quote As normal Silverdollar you talking absolute rubbish again same every season
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Post by windows1 on Aug 25, 2024 13:50:37 GMT
Just start playing players in their correct positions. Give yourself half a chance!
They all over complicate it!
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Post by baconburger on Aug 25, 2024 13:53:36 GMT
Let's hope SS wants the players that JW brings in, if not,what then? If that’s the case then it’s a ridiculous situation of the clubs making. The manager should be bringing in “his” players. That's not how the structure works and we haven't got a manager. The HC will be part of the process but depending upon the make up of the technical board could be in a minority or most likely will be in a minority if Darnbrough has been added to the technical board. He's very much JW's man. I was disappointed that wasn't clarified at the forum ie What is the difference between the roles of LD and JD? or straight out who is now on the technical board? but it was all very light on detail and too much focus on trying to be funny.
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Post by potters11 on Aug 25, 2024 14:47:48 GMT
Another interesting point on the XG yesterday Our second half XG was 0.35 - and that was made up in its entirety by Koumas hitting the post. The only other attempt at goal was Lewis Baker's ridiculous Charlie Adam nonsense in the 87th minute. I thought I was being harsh when I couldn’t think of any second half chances bar the Koumas one, safe to say I wasn’t being harsh. As for the Baker “attempt on goal” it had the hallmarks of a player being told you’ve got 6 days to find a new club… Let’s see if he does!
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 25, 2024 15:00:50 GMT
At a wedding yesterday so didn’t see it, were we really that bad? I went Watford and didn’t think the 1st half was that bad, the second was diabolical mind. I know it seems to be an endless “give them time” but surely SS needs a good run of games to get a settled team in, and find a way that suits the players We weren't awful, and as some have pointed out with luck we could have got a result. We will probably play worse this season and get a a better result Koumas was outstanding for such a young player and the combination of Koumas, Jun Ho and Manhoef has real potential. I think many are so down on the performance because most of our problems were self inflicted. We were not set up correctly for the the opposition or for the skills of our own players. This happened a lot early in SS's tenure and he showed he could learn from his mistakes. He needs to come up with a more sensible system for the players he selects. We've played two solid teams in the last 2 games and we've been out coached in both.
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Post by stokefanone on Aug 25, 2024 17:52:05 GMT
Dissapointed with schu yesterday. Moran should have been on all game and koumas should not have been moved to the wing for Mmaee. He had just hit the post and looked our only hope for a goal. Couldn’t believe it🫡
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Post by smallthorner on Aug 25, 2024 18:03:37 GMT
I honestly thought at the end of the season we’d turned a corner. SS was more pragmatic playing to our strengths and the performances were excellent. However the players that made us tick have left and once again we have a coach who is completely overthinking. We are once again in Jones/Neil territory. I think we all know how this ends! Big game next Saturday.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Aug 25, 2024 18:10:38 GMT
I've got my Stoke head on here, so I'm going to say exactly how I see it. We were unlucky to lose with the 2 shots against the post and probably deserved a draw. Very impressed with a couple of players yesterday but the midfield was disastrous and lost the battle from the off. It was obvious to me that Burger should have started, despite being very average in the last couple of weeks. I left feeling very flat after the game and was not impressed. However, to suggest that we sack him is laughable. It will come but we need to make some very astute signings this week. Over to Walters to find someone who Ste wants. We definitely need some experience in there. I appreciate you posting given your circumstances and I want your optimism to be right but I am still waiting for the evidence. We had a good half against Coventry, though they had chances, before they pushed on and pinned us in. We didn’t react and were lucky to sneak a win. Against Watford it was clear after 30 minutes we were being outplayed in midfield and exposed wide but we didn’t react. Yesterday it was obvious after 10 minutes we were being slaughtered out wide, especially down the left where the stats of the game offensively are horrendous, and couldn’t lay a glove on them in midfield. The front three, both wing backs and Bocat seems to have no idea what they were trying to do which is very worrying. We were promised a fit, dynamic team after the hardest of pre-seasons, what we have so far is no clear preferred shape, no consistent pattern of play and no sign of flexibility. We ended up yesterday with one outfield player in the position he started the game in, Moran with no pace wide in the right and Koumas our main threat wide left, it was bewildering and hard to explain - I have never seen anything like it. How we didn’t think a front three of Manhoef, Koumas, Bae was the best way to use them I don’t know, or the idea Thompson should be a regular starter are mysteries. I hope injuries are part of the problem but we failed to use Pearson and Mmaee well last season and they plus Gallagher and Stevens are the only obvious improvements we have and then we are relying on Bosun, a 21 year old who has never played in the Championship, to turn a failing midfield around. And let’s hope we have probably played 3 of the better teams, though their points may in part reflect playing us. However, I remain concerned we are making selection and tactical errors that are costing us rather than injuries and quality of opposition. If that is the case then thinking if we have the right people in place seems a valid step
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Post by scfcno1fan on Aug 25, 2024 18:11:43 GMT
I honestly thought at the end of the season we’d turned a corner. SS was more pragmatic playing to our strengths and the performances were excellent. However the players that made us tick have left and once again we have a coach who is completely overthinking. We are once again in Jones/Neil territory. I think we all know how this ends! Big game next Saturday. Indeed. Absolutely massive next weekend.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Aug 25, 2024 18:17:58 GMT
We can't just keep sacking managers every time they go through a sticky patch. We can't just keep letting a new manager and/or director of football make wholesale changes to the squad during a summer transfer window and then start talking about him 'losing the plot' after a couple (and at the moment it literally is just a couple!) of bad results. There is only one reason and one reason alone that we should even think about sacking Schumacher this season, and that would be if we are in or near the relegation zone either approaching Christmas or after it. Anything else and we may as well at least give him this season. Frankly, keeping us clear of relegation would be progress on the last couple of seasons. We have to be blunt and honest here: our squad is not top six quality and we are occasionally going to get beaten by teams who might be in or around the playoffs come the end of the season. In Burger, Junho and Manhoef we own three decent players outright. In Koumas it looks like we might have a promising goalscorer on loan. Junior Tchamadeu could become a very good player at this level but still has a fair bit to learn. Beyond that, the squad does not scream 'top six' quality and we might have to be patient with them. Finishing anywhere midtable would represent progress that we could hopefully continue to build on. Still think Schumacher is improving us compared to where we've been over the last few years and I remain quietly confident we will get better in time. Excellent and fair post.
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Post by moon on Aug 25, 2024 18:19:09 GMT
I've got my Stoke head on here, so I'm going to say exactly how I see it. We were unlucky to lose with the 2 shots against the post and probably deserved a draw. Very impressed with a couple of players yesterday but the midfield was disastrous and lost the battle from the off. It was obvious to me that Burger should have started, despite being very average in the last couple of weeks. I left feeling very flat after the game and was not impressed. However, to suggest that we sack him is laughable. It will come but we need to make some very astute signings this week. Over to Walters to find someone who Ste wants. We definitely need some experience in there. Fully behind Schumacher, I don’t want to see us change manager this season, it’s daft. I think the formation was a bit off yesterday though, hopefully a few ins and outs next week and when the injured players are back we should have a strong match day squad. I’m confident we can have a reasonable season, main thing for me is we finish mid table but improve the football and start to see some progression. Schumacher needs time, but to get that he also needs to ensure he gets good enough results to see us well clear of relegation. If he does that in a year or two I think we can look like a completely different team.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Aug 25, 2024 18:23:35 GMT
There’s a very good argument for keeping it a lot simpler. The fresh approach to attacking yesterday was decent enough in the first half, seeing our forward get in behind felt like something brand new! The defensive approach is a shambles and I don’t think it’s a consequence of the attacking approach.
Johansson Tchamadeu Phillips Gibson Bocat Lawal Burger Manhoef Junho Gallagher Koumas
Full backs as full backs, Lawal being the more defensive of the two, Burger more box to box. Of course plenty of opportunity for rotation but the roles can more or less stay the same.
Johansson Laurent Wilmot Gibson Thompson Bocat Nobody Tchamadeu/Manhoef Junho/Gooch Koumas
Is what we had at times in the first half!
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Post by stokeoptimist on Aug 25, 2024 18:25:02 GMT
Indeed. Absolutely massive next weekend. Its not though is it, can't keep saying that every game. Its a marathon not a sprint.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Aug 25, 2024 19:23:33 GMT
Top half at Christmas will do me fine but if we’re floundering around in the bottom 6 or 7 then swift decisive action would be required…..
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Post by stokiejoe on Aug 25, 2024 19:31:42 GMT
Had a short spell working for two bosses ( not football) and it was crazy. OK when they agreed, just bloody annoying when they didn't and nobody had a clue which way to go.
There can only be one boss in my opinion right or wrong he gets the accolades or the blame.
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Post by baconburger on Aug 25, 2024 19:36:57 GMT
Had a short spell working for two bosses ( not football) and it was crazy. OK when they agreed, just bloody annoying when they didn't and nobody had a clue which way to go. There can only be one boss in my opinion right or wrong he gets the accolades or the blame. Some sort of cottage industry? Everywhere I ever worked there were more bosses than you could shake a stick at.
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Post by questionable on Aug 25, 2024 20:09:44 GMT
24 hours after and still can’t believe just what a car crash that was yesterday, can’t recall such naive and lunacy management, 100% Nathan Jones has returned with Schumacher at the helm.
He’s so far out of his depth it’s embarrassing, starting eleven was awful and the finishing eleven is without doubt the worst set up I have ever come across in decades of watching Stoke, thrown out there with no thought whatsoever.
Two incidents from yesterday still annoy me when Laurent and Gooch smacked the ball out for no reason whatsoever when we’re losing.
Should have been sacked last year and needs to go sooner rather than later as we’re going nowhere with him in charge.
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Post by questionable on Aug 25, 2024 20:19:15 GMT
I've got my Stoke head on here, so I'm going to say exactly how I see it. We were unlucky to lose with the 2 shots against the post and probably deserved a draw. Very impressed with a couple of players yesterday but the midfield was disastrous and lost the battle from the off. It was obvious to me that Burger should have started, despite being very average in the last couple of weeks. I left feeling very flat after the game and was not impressed. However, to suggest that we sack him is laughable. It will come but we need to make some very astute signings this week. Over to Walters to find someone who Ste wants. We definitely need some experience in there. They cut through us at their leisure and took their foot off the pedal, literally men against boys. His tactics were a disaster from the off and on 96 minutes it was unforgivable watching what was basically a shit show. I honestly think he’s an extremely poor manager who should have rightly been sacked last season, Nathan Jones category.
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Post by stokiejoe on Aug 25, 2024 21:11:43 GMT
Had a short spell working for two bosses ( not football) and it was crazy. OK when they agreed, just bloody annoying when they didn't and nobody had a clue which way to go. There can only be one boss in my opinion right or wrong he gets the accolades or the blame. Some sort of cottage industry? Everywhere I ever worked there were more bosses than you could shake a stick at. Depends where you are on the managerial pyramid! Talking about national multimillion company.
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Post by marylandstoke on Aug 25, 2024 21:14:54 GMT
Had a short spell working for two bosses ( not football) and it was crazy. OK when they agreed, just bloody annoying when they didn't and nobody had a clue which way to go. There can only be one boss in my opinion right or wrong he gets the accolades or the blame. Some sort of cottage industry? Everywhere I ever worked there were more bosses than you could shake a stick at. Were you a drummer?
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Post by ceejays on Aug 26, 2024 3:02:00 GMT
As the matches roll by it’s clear SS is a more likeable version of AN . I say that in the sense that he pays far too much attention to the opposition. His underlying objective is to play attacking football whereas AN just played not to lose . So I’m sure SS will get it right . I just wish in interviews I wouldn’t hear him refer to the opposition as if they were to be feared . Ok you have to understand perhaps their set pieces and who is picking who up but the grater picture is to develop a pattern of play and stick to it. In that regard I hope to see Cundle arrive this week as he was the glue that made us tick at the back end last season . The connector. Capable of the telling pass and capable of running with the ball . My over riding issue at the moment though is Johansson is just not a good keeper. He’s too small imho to be top notch .it will be a rollercoaster with him . Far more erratic than Bonham .
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Post by tuum on Aug 26, 2024 4:39:34 GMT
If that’s the case then it’s a ridiculous situation of the clubs making. The manager should be bringing in “his” players. That's not how the structure works and we haven't got a manager. The HC will be part of the process but depending upon the make up of the technical board could be in a minority or most likely will be in a minority if Darnbrough has been added to the technical board. He's very much JW's man. I was disappointed that wasn't clarified at the forum ie What is the difference between the roles of LD and JD? or straight out who is now on the technical board? but it was all very light on detail and too much focus on trying to be funny. I thought the club had been very consistent in their explanations of how the transfer process works. The decisions on who to buy/sell are made by consensus and the manager is part of that process. I recall JC also stating that the manager had a very significant say and if he did not want a player then that player was not signed. Of course, the manager may have to accept alternatives if his 1st or 2nd choices are not available for any reason. It is super Jon's job to make sure our transfer targets are in line with the club's blueprint for progress.i.e. not signing anyone with no resale value, or a 6'8" centre forward to pump high balls into the box etc. I wonder if that comment only applied to 1st team squad members and u-21 are signed without the manager's input?
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Post by emretezzy on Aug 26, 2024 5:02:13 GMT
Hes the one decision and get out clause SJW has when him and John Coates sit down and try and figure out why it's not going to plan.
Hes not his man.
Schumachers head is on the block as he will scapegoat him and get his own man in.
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Post by tuum on Aug 26, 2024 6:33:53 GMT
Hes the one decision and get out clause SJW has when him and John Coates sit down and try and figure out why it's not going to plan. Hes not his man. Schumachers head is on the block as he will scapegoat him and get his own man in. Which is fair enough. That tends to be human nature. In that scenario, JC holds the cards. He can back super Jon or he can back SS. Again, human nature would tend to backing super Jon. Sacking SJW would imply that JC was at fault for appointing super Jon in the first place. Should any of this happen, JC can't win. He is going to get blamed by a significant minority of our support either way. For me, the bulk of any non-performance on the pitch lies with the manager. He selects the team, he chooses the tactics. If hasn't got 1-2 of his preferred players that is no excuse for sulking or spitting the dummy out. He works with what he has...and SS has enough to get us in mid-table for now. p. s. I am not saying SS has spat his dummy out I am just making a general point about all managers. If I had to put a number on it. 80-90% of how we perform is down to the manager. 10-20% (and I am being generous here) is down to the off field decisions. Clearly, this % could be more if the club has told the manager there is no money to buy, or the relationships within are extremely toxic but, as far as I know, this is not the case at Stoke. So, as far as I am concerned our poor performances to date lie at SS's door not SJW or JC. I have more faith in SS than many so I hope to see an upturn in fortunes and then he can bask in all the glory.
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Post by idle on Aug 26, 2024 6:35:39 GMT
starting eleven was awful and the finishing eleven is without doubt the worst set up I have ever come across in decades of watching Stoke I've read this exact opinion hundreds of times on here since we came down, you'd think we'd be a national league team by now.
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Post by baconburger on Aug 26, 2024 7:50:30 GMT
Hes the one decision and get out clause SJW has when him and John Coates sit down and try and figure out why it's not going to plan. Hes not his man. Schumachers head is on the block as he will scapegoat him and get his own man in. Which is fair enough. That tends to be human nature. In that scenario, JC holds the cards. He can back super Jon or he can back SS. Again, human nature would tend to backing super Jon. Sacking SJW would imply that JC was at fault for appointing super Jon in the first place. Should any of this happen, JC can't win. He is going to get blamed by a significant minority of our support either way. For me, the bulk of any non-performance on the pitch lies with the manager. He selects the team, he chooses the tactics. If hasn't got 1-2 of his preferred players that is no excuse for sulking or spitting the dummy out. He works with what he has...and SS has enough to get us in mid-table for now. p. s. I am not saying SS has spat his dummy out I am just making a general point about all managers. If I had to put a number on it. 80-90% of how we perform is down to the manager. 10-20% (and I am being generous here) is down to the off field decisions. Clearly, this % could be more if the club has told the manager there is no money to buy, or the relationships within are extremely toxic but, as far as I know, this is not the case at Stoke. So, as far as I am concerned our poor performances to date lie at SS's door not SJW or JC. I have more faith in SS than many so I hope to see an upturn in fortunes and then he can bask in all the glory. You don’t seem to see the problem that if there isn’t an alignment of philosophy on the game then the one of the appointments is a bad appointment and he made one two months after the other. Why would you think that he’d done such a weird thing? Because it’s consistent with his previous managerial appointments lurching wildly between management styles and philosophy. Fast to slow, dinosaur to progressive. It’s like the man has no view on the game whatsoever other than wanting to win and challenge for promotion. The one consistent presence shows no consistency of thought or ability to commit to a blueprint and stick to it.
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Post by baconburger on Aug 26, 2024 7:58:46 GMT
That's not how the structure works and we haven't got a manager. The HC will be part of the process but depending upon the make up of the technical board could be in a minority or most likely will be in a minority if Darnbrough has been added to the technical board. He's very much JW's man. I was disappointed that wasn't clarified at the forum ie What is the difference between the roles of LD and JD? or straight out who is now on the technical board? but it was all very light on detail and too much focus on trying to be funny. I thought the club had been very consistent in their explanations of how the transfer process works. The decisions on who to buy/sell are made by consensus and the manager is part of that process. I recall JC also stating that the manager had a very significant say and if he did not want a player then that player was not signed. Of course, the manager may have to accept alternatives if his 1st or 2nd choices are not available for any reason. It is super Jon's job to make sure our transfer targets are in line with the club's blueprint for progress.i.e. not signing anyone with no resale value, or a 6'8" centre forward to pump high balls into the box etc. I wonder if that comment only applied to 1st team squad members and u-21 are signed without the manager's input? The previous forum was far more informative for those who like the detail. Laying out who was on the technical board and why and clarifying that JD was not a member of the technical board but reported to it . I would have liked to know if that situation remains the same or whether Darnbrough had been given an enhanced role and been added to the technical board which would very much skew the consensus towards JW and very much dilute the significance of the HC’s input.
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Post by neilethere on Aug 26, 2024 8:22:10 GMT
I was at the game yesterday and beforehand I was expecting a very difficult game against an unbeaten physically strong team. There were individual moments in the game that I could be critical with but left the game impressed by some individual performances from the Stoke team that is very promising for the future. In reality there was not much between the sides. We had the best two players on show in Koumas and Junho. The two goals we conceded were poor but with a fraction more luck would have outscored West Brom. For the first time in a long while we had a player running in behind the opposition and scoring. When Gallagher is fit this can open up more room for Koumas. Schumacher is doing a great job! Get off his back! Support your team rather than criticising every single little mistake. Firstly Junho wasn't impressive at all he does the odd thing but far too weak in his play, when Gallagher does play then Koumas will stay on the left yes he may get behind his defender but less of a goal threat,the manager is no where near good enough tactical wise ever stoke fan could see after 15 minutes we were getting hammered in midfield but he decided until the 60min to try to stop them, poor manager with non league tactics [
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Post by neilethere on Aug 26, 2024 8:26:16 GMT
I've got my Stoke head on here, so I'm going to say exactly how I see it. We were unlucky to lose with the 2 shots against the post and probably deserved a draw. Very impressed with a couple of players yesterday but the midfield was disastrous and lost the battle from the off. It was obvious to me that Burger should have started, despite being very average in the last couple of weeks. I left feeling very flat after the game and was not impressed. However, to suggest that we sack him is laughable. It will come but we need to make some very astute signings this week. Over to Walters to find someone who Ste wants. We definitely need some experience in there. Please tell me he puts all the names in a hat and draws out who’s playing at 1.30 because that’s the only way you could justify that starting eleven and do the substitutes get picked by who’s won at cards?
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