Hoever

[smallthorner]

Another season loan.
Quality who can only get better.
Be good if he's mated up with Burger and Millions.

[Fred Merger]

He's a right sided attacking player for me, with a decent right back behind him he's useful. But we have Manhouf. So for me money is better invested in a solid CB or left fullback as we have other options in Tchamadeu and Gooch?

[Gary Hackett]

Apr 22, 2024 19:12:18 GMT Fred Merger said:

He's a right sided attacking player for me, with a decent right back behind him he's useful. But we have Manhouf. So for me money is better invested in a solid CB or left fullback as we have other options in Tchamadeu and Gooch?

I've thought about that myself but I'm not sure he's good enough to be an attacking player who you'd want in the opposition half.

Yes he's made a few assists and a few goals but I think if he was your main attacking outlet on the right you'd end up being disappointed very quickly.

He's similar to Tymon in that he's rubbish at defending and doesn't possess enough quality to be an attacking player and just like Tymon he's only any use as a Wing back imo.

[andystokey]

There is something about 38 appearances that Gooch and Junior have just about scraped between them that makes me think "resilient and useful". I'd hate to see him rip up the Championship for someone else it's a big year for him, he's just at that age, and Junior is still only 20.

[Fred Merger]

Apr 22, 2024 19:24:35 GMT Gary Hackett said:

Apr 22, 2024 19:12:18 GMT Fred Merger said:

He's a right sided attacking player for me, with a decent right back behind him he's useful. But we have Manhouf. So for me money is better invested in a solid CB or left fullback as we have other options in Tchamadeu and Gooch?

I've thought about that myself but I'm not sure he's good enough to be an attacking player who you'd want in the opposition half.

Yes he's made a few assists and a few goals but I think if he was your main attacking outlet on the right you'd end up being disappointed very quickly.

He's similar to Tymon in that he's rubbish at defending and doesn't possess enough quality to be an attacking player and just like Tymon he's only any use as a Wing back imo.

I agree to a point, but Hoever is much more of a goal threat than Tymon ever will be.

[jesusmcmuffin]

Apr 22, 2024 19:50:22 GMT Fred Merger said:

Apr 22, 2024 19:24:35 GMT Gary Hackett said:

I've thought about that myself but I'm not sure he's good enough to be an attacking player who you'd want in the opposition half.

Yes he's made a few assists and a few goals but I think if he was your main attacking outlet on the right you'd end up being disappointed very quickly.

He's similar to Tymon in that he's rubbish at defending and doesn't possess enough quality to be an attacking player and just like Tymon he's only any use as a Wing back imo.

I agree to a point, but Hoever is much more of a goal threat than Tymon ever will be.

Far better player than Tymon all round . Hope we can keep Hoever in some way

[bolders]

I’d have him in the midfield instead of Laurent with a good DM behind him. He is so much better going forward and driving play than defending.

DM
Hoever Burger

[Deleted]

We should sign him permanently and work on him. We can improve him defensively. Coach him, work on him

[campbellsleftpeg]

For everyone trying to swap his position its mental. You have to take the rough with the smooth, its hid driving runs from fullback that make him dangerous

[lordb]

He can defend and he can defend at right back
His performance defensively away at Leeds was excellent
However he has had too many games where he's defended very poorly individual errors and poor positioning

Does seem to me he's defended better when Manhoef plays

[nonameface]

Apr 22, 2024 18:53:51 GMT Gary Hackett said:

Wolves bought him for 10m and he'll be on crazy wages until 2026.

Liverpool have a 15% sell on clause.

He's not coming here permanently we simply can't afford him and even if we could afford him I wouldn't sign him because he can't defend.

Feels too me Wolves are okay loaning him out is his wages are paid for or contributed too rather than take an FFP hit by selling him.

[Gods]

I'd beg Wolves to let us keep him in some form.

He's our best attacking player. Some would say our only attacking player.

[Deleted]

Apr 22, 2024 21:00:53 GMT lordb said:

He can defend and he can defend at right back
His performance defensively away at Leeds was excellent
However he has had too many games where he's defended very poorly individual errors and poor positioning

Does seem to me he's defended better when Manhoef plays

It helps that Manhoef keeps defenders on their toes. He’s fast and is willing to run down the flank or cut inside. That gives Hoever more space.

It also helps that Plymouth were terrible at tracking basic runs.

[biddulphchav]

Apr 22, 2024 23:18:16 GMT @cvillestokie said:

Apr 22, 2024 21:00:53 GMT lordb said:

He can defend and he can defend at right back
His performance defensively away at Leeds was excellent
However he has had too many games where he's defended very poorly individual errors and poor positioning

Does seem to me he's defended better when Manhoef plays

It helps that Manhoef keeps defenders on their toes. He’s fast and is willing to run down the flank or cut inside. That gives Hoever more space.

It also helps that Plymouth were terrible at tracking basic runs.

Don’t think it’s a coincidence that when he plays behind a good player, who knows the role in a 4-4-2 (and actually tracks his man), suddenly Hoever looks much better defensively.

He’s prone to some brain farts but he’s 22 and improving. Bags of quality and just amazes me so many people want him gone. Don’t know class players when they are right in front of them!

[mtrstudent]

Apr 23, 2024 0:23:36 GMT biddulphchav said:

Apr 22, 2024 23:18:16 GMT @cvillestokie said:

It helps that Manhoef keeps defenders on their toes. He’s fast and is willing to run down the flank or cut inside. That gives Hoever more space.

It also helps that Plymouth were terrible at tracking basic runs.

Don’t think it’s a coincidence that when he plays behind a good player, who knows the role in a 4-4-2 (and actually tracks his man), suddenly Hoever looks much better defensively.

He’s prone to some brain farts but he’s 22 and improving. Bags of quality and just amazes me so many people want him gone. Don’t know class players when they are right in front of them!

His brain farts are too much for me but that's a good argument mate.

[george2again]

Apr 23, 2024 0:23:36 GMT biddulphchav said:

Apr 22, 2024 23:18:16 GMT @cvillestokie said:

It helps that Manhoef keeps defenders on their toes. He’s fast and is willing to run down the flank or cut inside. That gives Hoever more space.

It also helps that Plymouth were terrible at tracking basic runs.

Don’t think it’s a coincidence that when he plays behind a good player, who knows the role in a 4-4-2 (and actually tracks his man), suddenly Hoever looks much better defensively.

He’s prone to some brain farts but he’s 22 and improving. Bags of quality and just amazes me so many people want him gone. Don’t know class players when they are right in front of them!

Class players do their job. He’s a right full back who struggles to defend. Gets caught out positionally all the time and seems completely unaware of what his main purpose on the pitch is.

[drippinggoatsnob]

He finishes like a 30 goals a season forward. Paul Warhurst here we go

[rickyfullerbeer]

All the things being said are word for word the same as people, including me, were saying this time last year. And here we are.

For me, he hasn't improved on the weaknesses he's shown.

[Deleted]

Middle third of the season Hoever was terrible and rightfully dropped but who was good in that spell? Overall I like what I see in Hoever and he's scored some very important goals for us and is one of our main attacking threats. As said above he's young enough to improve and be coached defensively, another years loan would be perfect for us.

[Mint Berry Barks]

I'm very much in the camp that if you've got a player who can do one thing VERY well, you can coach him up on the other bits of his game.

And let's face it, at this level and his age, he's one of the better attacking fullbacks in the league. If we can keep him for another year then I'd be all for it.

[FullerMagic]

The fee that Wolves paid is still mind-boggling! And basically means he's still worth £3.5m+ on their books for anything permanent?

So they'd need to sell him for that to avoid an FFP loss - not to mention the 2 years on his deal at God knows what-a-week.

Not sure anyone would be prepared to go anywhere near there though - or exactly how Wolves see his career there petering out, assuming they have written him off.



theathletic.com/4235593/2020/09/18/wolves-sign-ki-jana-hoever-from-liverpool-for-13-5m/
Wolves complete the signing of Ki-Jana Hoever from Liverpool for £13.5 million with add-ons, report Tim Spiers and James Pearce.

The 18-year-old Dutch defender, who has made four appearances for Liverpool’s first team, becomes Wolves’ fifth signing this summer.

It’s understood that Wolves will pay £9m up front, plus a potential £4.5m in add-ons, with the Reds inserting a 15 per cent sell-on clause into the deal.




I think I probably would try and get him back (and admittedly I wouldn't have said that 6 weeks ago) because some of his qualities are special at this level for a 22yo - but that would have knock-on effects for Tchamadeu, and make Gooch a very fringey figure, even if Wolves would go for another loan.

[mamathestriker]

Apr 23, 2024 9:57:28 GMT FullerMagic said:

The fee that Wolves paid is still mind-boggling! And basically means he's still worth £3.5m+ on their books for anything permanent?

So they'd need to sell him for that to avoid an FFP loss - not to mention the 2 years on his deal at God knows what-a-week.

Not sure anyone would be prepared to go anywhere near there though - or exactly how Wolves see his career there petering out, assuming they have written him off.



theathletic.com/4235593/2020/09/18/wolves-sign-ki-jana-hoever-from-liverpool-for-13-5m/
Wolves complete the signing of Ki-Jana Hoever from Liverpool for £13.5 million with add-ons, report Tim Spiers and James Pearce.

The 18-year-old Dutch defender, who has made four appearances for Liverpool’s first team, becomes Wolves’ fifth signing this summer.

It’s understood that Wolves will pay £9m up front, plus a potential £4.5m in add-ons, with the Reds inserting a 15 per cent sell-on clause into the deal.




I think I probably would try and get him back (and admittedly I wouldn't have said that 6 weeks ago) because some of his qualities are special at this level for a 22yo - but that would have knock-on effects for Tchamadeu, and make Gooch a very fringey figure, even if Wolves would go for another loan.

I think we have to factor in we've already put the £1.5m investment in Junior in already when deciding whether he'd be worth another shot at keeping.

His form this last 6 games has been excellent but it's only 2 months since fans were cheering when he was subbed.

It's a tough one. I'd only go for it if it was another loan.

[Wizbit]

Apr 22, 2024 22:37:01 GMT nonameface said:

Apr 22, 2024 18:53:51 GMT Gary Hackett said:

Wolves bought him for 10m and he'll be on crazy wages until 2026.

Liverpool have a 15% sell on clause.

He's not coming here permanently we simply can't afford him and even if we could afford him I wouldn't sign him because he can't defend.

Feels too me Wolves are okay loaning him out is his wages are paid for or contributed too rather than take an FFP hit by selling him.

He's on 40K a week at wolves no way can we afford him on a perm at the moment

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2024 12:19:52 GMT Wizbit said:

Apr 22, 2024 22:37:01 GMT nonameface said:

Feels too me Wolves are okay loaning him out is his wages are paid for or contributed too rather than take an FFP hit by selling him.

He's on 40K a week at wolves no way can we afford him on a perm at the moment

Nor would he want to come. He’ll be back on the continent next year after a poor campaign this season.

[lordb]

Apr 23, 2024 15:13:31 GMT @cvillestokie said:

Apr 23, 2024 12:19:52 GMT Wizbit said:

He's on 40K a week at wolves no way can we afford him on a perm at the moment

Nor would he want to come. He’ll be back on the continent next year after a poor campaign this season.

you sure?

[MilanStokie]

Apr 22, 2024 18:41:00 GMT sticky said:

No not for me, certainly young enough to improve but we’re not in a place where we can have that luxury

I don't wish to sound like I am having a go or anything, but I really can't understand this way of thinking.

We don't want players with huge potential?

We cannot afford the finished articles, they are either in the Premier League or they cost silly money.

If we want to improve as a football club, we need to start relying more on the ability to coach players and help them realise this massive potential. That way we secure better assets and ultimately start making profit.

A finished article Ki-Jana Hoever, with the realised potential, isn't plying his trade in the 2nd tier, he is in a top club and probably starting games for his country.

Dunno about you lot, but I think I would prefer we tried that, than sticking with Gooch, not that I have anything against him like.

[scfcbiancorossi]

Should sign him. One of the few players we've got who knows where the goal is. Severely lacked confidence for much of the season but has all the ability. Still young too so will only improve

[MilanStokie]

Apr 22, 2024 20:56:54 GMT campbellsleftpeg said:

For everyone trying to swap his position its mental. You have to take the rough with the smooth, its hid driving runs from fullback that make him dangerous

Bang on. Just because he excels in an attacking sense does not mean he should be used as a right midfielder or a winger. Hell, I don't think he's even good as a RWB and a lot of his mistakes have come from playing unfamiliar roles.

He is a RB who makes late attacking runs.

Can his crossing be better? Absolutely
Is his positioning sometimes suspect? Yep, particularly if he is bombing on as per instructions to do so
Is his weakness maybe 1 on 1 with tricky wingers? Probably, but give me a full back in this league that can keep all wingers in their arse pocket...

Again, it keeps being repeated here that he can't defend. He clearly can... but anyone would struggle to defend if he is being asked to get up with the RW. he is let down by his CDM and RCB for not covering. Vs teams where we have had to defend for 70% of the game, he has shown to be a capable defender, who is prone to a mistake every few games.

[MilanStokie]

Apr 23, 2024 12:19:52 GMT Wizbit said:

Apr 22, 2024 22:37:01 GMT nonameface said:

Feels too me Wolves are okay loaning him out is his wages are paid for or contributed too rather than take an FFP hit by selling him.

He's on 40K a week at wolves no way can we afford him on a perm at the moment

You are probably correct.

But a lot will depend on;

Wolves financial situation
Whether a deal could be done that the selling club contributes to wages, like Gayle or Wesley
If the fee could be low enough to now be a loss for FFP for Wolves. I think that should be around £3-4m at the start of next season (I may be wrong)
How much the player would be interested in coming permanently

Unfortunately though, both him and Iversen packages would seem to be on the 'too expensive' side.

[lordb]

Apr 23, 2024 16:24:36 GMT MilanStokie said:

Apr 23, 2024 12:19:52 GMT Wizbit said:

He's on 40K a week at wolves no way can we afford him on a perm at the moment

You are probably correct.

But a lot will depend on;

Wolves financial situation
Whether a deal could be done that the selling club contributes to wages, like Gayle or Wesley
If the fee could be low enough to now be a loss for FFP for Wolves. I think that should be around £3-4m at the start of next season (I may be wrong)
How much the player would be interested in coming permanently

Unfortunately though, both him and Iversen packages would seem to be on the 'too expensive' side.

Iverson should be much cheaper than Hoever
half that fee and significantly less wages
However Johansson appears cheaper still