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Post by Ron on Apr 20, 2024 22:47:24 GMT
I’d absolutely take him permanently.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Apr 20, 2024 22:52:49 GMT
All 3 of 4 touches for his goal were class. At pace.
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Post by MilanStokie on Apr 20, 2024 22:54:16 GMT
Hoever not being able to defend, yet another myth that Stoke fans just love to believe. The same happened with Tymon.
Both are modern attacking full backs who more often than not, are let down by poor covering from a CDM or their CBs.
When they are out of position, it's not because they are shit or can't defend, it's because they have been told to push on.
Hoever is prone to a mistake or 2, absolutely, but he is 22 years old....
He will play at the top level for many years and probably be capped for Holland and people here will still go on about how he can't/couldn't defend.
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Hoever
Apr 20, 2024 23:02:12 GMT
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Post by dioufsboots on Apr 20, 2024 23:02:12 GMT
Not been his biggest fan at times,but as been very decent as of late maybe last 10 games,an as said his pace helps us massively at both ends
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Post by robwahlmann on Apr 20, 2024 23:04:54 GMT
I stil think Junior is a better option!
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Post by GrahamHyde on Apr 20, 2024 23:30:31 GMT
Hoever not being able to defend, yet another myth that Stoke fans just love to believe. The same happened with Tymon. Both are modern attacking full backs who more often than not, are let down by poor covering from a CDM or their CBs. When they are out of position, it's not because they are shit or can't defend, it's because they have been told to push on. Hoever is prone to a mistake or 2, absolutely, but he is 22 years old.... He will play at the top level for many years and probably be capped for Holland and people here will still go on about how he can't/couldn't defend. He's a good player. We need to start identifying areas of improvement though and being brutal in recruitment for those areas. In my view that RB position is one of them. We need a really solid defence to be competing at the top end of the division. You may think it's a myth but in my opinion he's not good enough defensively. I don't think any of us want to keep finishing 16th for eternity, as brilliant as today's win was in helping us survive.
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Post by a on Apr 20, 2024 23:36:15 GMT
We’ve Ben lucky to have him
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Hoever
Apr 20, 2024 23:50:24 GMT
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Post by leegthestokie90 on Apr 20, 2024 23:50:24 GMT
He scores at the beginning and the end of the season. Goes missing for 30+ games when it’s cold. No thanks. bang on to inconsistent
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Apr 21, 2024 0:00:03 GMT
Another one who we will really really struggle to improve on , if we could havev it’s a no brainer we have some good players in him , Cundle , Campbell baker , McNally , Steven’s , Thompson we need to secure first
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JHPR
Academy Starlet
Posts: 213
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Post by JHPR on Apr 21, 2024 0:01:59 GMT
It's about managing the formation/strategy/tactics to account for the space he leaves behind whilst making use of his abilities going forward. Would definitely have him at the club on a permanent basis but I don't think he'll come cheap from Wolves.
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 2:20:09 GMT
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Post by willieeetmiout on Apr 21, 2024 2:20:09 GMT
He scores at the beginning and the end of the season. Goes missing for 30+ games when it’s cold. No thanks. Tell me you don't understand football without telling me you don't understand football
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Post by biddulphchav on Apr 21, 2024 2:53:13 GMT
One of our better players and one of the best RB’s in the division. He’s not the best defensively but more than makes up for it with what he offers going forward. In a good side (which we are not) he’d be even better. Remember that a good chunk of his time here he’s played behind Campbell who really doesn’t do the defensive side well at all, don’t think that has helped him. Funnily enough I think he looks better in a 4 when the winger actually tracks back - when he’s marking two players he makes mistakes, as would most RB’s.
I don’t think we’ve got much chance of getting him permanently, don’t think a lot of people on this board realise how good he actually is.
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 3:05:27 GMT
Post by stayingupforbigbazza on Apr 21, 2024 3:05:27 GMT
He gets paid well for a reason .He is class and has skill like he showed today ..Nice if we could fit Junior Tchambeu and Hoever in the same team .. I'll let the experts sort that out..
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Post by stayingupforbigbazza on Apr 21, 2024 3:07:43 GMT
All 3 of 4 touches for his goal were class. At pace. That goal was amazing ..including the much criticised Josh Laurent for the assist.
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 5:51:26 GMT
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Post by headsgoup on Apr 21, 2024 5:51:26 GMT
I'd keep him, but I don't think we could guarantee him football ahead of Junior.
Bigger priorities elsewhere.
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 8:01:18 GMT
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Post by saltydog on Apr 21, 2024 8:01:18 GMT
Loved his celebration to the Plymouth fans! Soak it up kid, these moments will stay with you!
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Post by clarkeda on Apr 21, 2024 8:09:08 GMT
3 in 5 from right back is not to be trifled with.
Some fans need to be careful what they wish for. The whole game is about total goals now, not having some mythical ST who scores 20+ on his own.
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 8:09:42 GMT
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Post by baconburger on Apr 21, 2024 8:09:42 GMT
He’s excellent technically and athletically and will only get better and make less silly mistakes as he matures. A real example of the form is temporary saying. I’d like to keep him but we are pretty overloaded in his position. I’d take him and Junior but then what do you do with Gooch who whilst I’m not keen on personally a lot of fans seem to rate.
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 8:20:59 GMT
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Post by lordb on Apr 21, 2024 8:20:59 GMT
He’s excellent technically and athletically and will only get better and make less silly mistakes as he matures. A real example of the form is temporary saying. I’d like to keep him but we are pretty overloaded in his position. I’d take him and Junior but then what do you do with Gooch who whilst I’m not keen on personally a lot of fans seem to rate. Gooch is the perfect squad player Covers at least 4 positions given the Championship slog he'd still get plenty of games albeit mostly off the bench
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 8:31:32 GMT
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Post by baconburger on Apr 21, 2024 8:31:32 GMT
He’s excellent technically and athletically and will only get better and make less silly mistakes as he matures. A real example of the form is temporary saying. I’d like to keep him but we are pretty overloaded in his position. I’d take him and Junior but then what do you do with Gooch who whilst I’m not keen on personally a lot of fans seem to rate. Gooch is the perfect squad player Covers at least 4 positions given the Championship slog he'd still get plenty of games albeit mostly off the bench Not sure how many such utility players a squad can have Thommo and Leris fall into the same bracket. Sound but imo unlikely to challenge for a starting role in any position blocking avenues for youngsters. Of the three I’d keep Thommo and move one of Gooch and Leris on if possible especially if we could sign or re loan Hoever.
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 8:34:01 GMT
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lordb likes this
Post by emretezzy on Apr 21, 2024 8:34:01 GMT
Forming a good partnership with Manhoef I would say this is a massive part of it. He actually has a half decent player in front of him.
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 8:35:41 GMT
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Post by kerouac on Apr 21, 2024 8:35:41 GMT
My wildly unpopular opinion about our team this season is that Hoever is one of our best players. He is definitely a below average defender, but so are all the others. And he has the speed to recover after a mistake which has actually saved us a few times. Plus he can actually get his head to the ball unlike Gooch. Going forward only Junho is more of a threat from open play, and Hoever is a better finisher than him and all of our forwards. For me, one of our best players. Granted this is on a team that is finishing in the bottom third of the Championship, but better than most in our squad. A frustrating player but he’s an actual footballer……a keeper for me too.
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Post by MilanStokie on Apr 21, 2024 8:39:01 GMT
Hoever not being able to defend, yet another myth that Stoke fans just love to believe. The same happened with Tymon. Both are modern attacking full backs who more often than not, are let down by poor covering from a CDM or their CBs. When they are out of position, it's not because they are shit or can't defend, it's because they have been told to push on. Hoever is prone to a mistake or 2, absolutely, but he is 22 years old.... He will play at the top level for many years and probably be capped for Holland and people here will still go on about how he can't/couldn't defend. He's a good player. We need to start identifying areas of improvement though and being brutal in recruitment for those areas. In my view that RB position is one of them. We need a really solid defence to be competing at the top end of the division. You may think it's a myth but in my opinion he's not good enough defensively. I don't think any of us want to keep finishing 16th for eternity, as brilliant as today's win was in helping us survive. When he's played in a back four and when he's had to defend he's been absolutely fine at it. He's also done fine when playing RCB in a back 3. He's the scapegoat when he's pushed on as a RB or RWB and his teammates are just as culpable as him. On another note, we are a championship club, why do we expect finished articles? We should be embracing talented footballers who have holes or gaps in their performance and helping them to realise their potential, not binning them off because of them...
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 8:40:24 GMT
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Post by lordb on Apr 21, 2024 8:40:24 GMT
Gooch is the perfect squad player Covers at least 4 positions given the Championship slog he'd still get plenty of games albeit mostly off the bench Not sure how many such utility players a squad can have Thommo and Leris fall into the same bracket. Sound but imo unlikely to challenge for a starting role in any position blocking avenues for youngsters. Of the three I’d keep Thommo and move one of Gooch and Leris on if possible especially if we could sign or re loan Hoever. Leris does for sure I think JT has improved so much he could just be seen as first team midfielder, would still like to see Pearson turn it around though Sidebe is the one youngster who should be in the first team squad Johnson is obviously leaving I think Laurent or Baker could go to allow Sol into the squad If not then loan for him, should be plenty clubs after him Lowe and Tezgel maybe but both out on loan makes sense The 3 young CB's we have not ready Simpkin is good but again loan makes sense Gooch and Leris won't be blocking anyone atm
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 8:43:14 GMT
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Post by MilanStokie on Apr 21, 2024 8:43:14 GMT
I'd keep him, but I don't think we could guarantee him football ahead of Junior. Bigger priorities elsewhere. I think we have witnessed this season that you really need 2 quality players for each position. No reason why both junior and Hoever wouldn't get enough game time. They're also both capable of covering other positions. I would prefer that over gooch, who I think is just bang average, but a useful utility player to have.
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 8:57:05 GMT
Post by FullerMagic on Apr 21, 2024 8:57:05 GMT
He's a conundrum.
He's got real assets that Junior Tchamadeu doesn't - and probably vice versa with Tchamadeu, who we've already invested £1m in and the last thing he needs is a closed pathway
Whether we could justify an outlay on another RB, or another loan that would hit Junior's minutes, who knows? There's a hell of a lot in there for a player who's just turned 22.
I remember Neil early season being emphatic that "something has gone wrong if Hoever doesn't become a Premier League player" and purring about him in a way he didn't often do after he'd got him back.
and even yesterday Schuey said
"He's got that quality. We keep saying he needs to get forward and play with that energy because he can run as well as anyone I've seen and he's got some ability he's just got to concentrate and play with that confidence and belief because he is a good player."
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 8:59:29 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 21, 2024 8:59:29 GMT
This feels awfully familiar.
Crap for the majority and scores some goals and it’s all forgotten.
For me the bigger picture is he has shown he is not good enough for about 90% of his time here.
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 9:03:34 GMT
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Post by brizzlestokie on Apr 21, 2024 9:03:34 GMT
I feel it hugely depends on how good we are as a whole next season.
If we make improvements and push for top half then he could be a great attacking fullback.
If we’re shit again then he probably wouldn’t be much use.
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 9:05:36 GMT
Post by MilanStokie on Apr 21, 2024 9:05:36 GMT
This feels awfully familiar. Crap for the majority and scores some goals and it’s all forgotten. For me the bigger picture is he has shown he is not good enough for about 90% of his time here. I just can't push all the blame on Hoever here. Under AN it was blatantly obvious that he had instructions to get forward as much as possible, with Pearson and/or McNally covering any breaks. The 2 latter players didn't do their job well enough. I can't defend the lapses in concentration leading to some terrible errors by Hoever, but I think it's part and parcel of that type of fullback, especially at 21/22 years of age.
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Hoever
Apr 21, 2024 9:06:14 GMT
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Apr 21, 2024 9:06:14 GMT
Important to remember where we are in the league even after a brilliant result and performance. He’s played a part in that.
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