Hoever

[sticky]

Apr 23, 2024 16:13:54 GMT MilanStokie said:

Apr 22, 2024 18:41:00 GMT sticky said:

No not for me, certainly young enough to improve but we’re not in a place where we can have that luxury

I don't wish to sound like I am having a go or anything, but I really can't understand this way of thinking.

We don't want players with huge potential?

We cannot afford the finished articles, they are either in the Premier League or they cost silly money.

If we want to improve as a football club, we need to start relying more on the ability to coach players and help them realise this massive potential. That way we secure better assets and ultimately start making profit.

A finished article Ki-Jana Hoever, with the realised potential, isn't plying his trade in the 2nd tier, he is in a top club and probably starting games for his country.

Dunno about you lot, but I think I would prefer we tried that, than sticking with Gooch, not that I have anything against him like.

He’s not our player
By all accounts his wages are large
Who knows what transfer fee he’d command
And tbh he’s been pretty shit for most of the season
I’d spend the money elsewhere, If we were in a position where we were just missing out on the play offs then yes maybe we’d only need a few in, and he could possibly someone we look… we aren’t in that position unfortunately but everyone’s opinion will be different

[MilanStokie]

Apr 23, 2024 17:52:45 GMT sticky said:

Apr 23, 2024 16:13:54 GMT MilanStokie said:

I don't wish to sound like I am having a go or anything, but I really can't understand this way of thinking.

We don't want players with huge potential?

We cannot afford the finished articles, they are either in the Premier League or they cost silly money.

If we want to improve as a football club, we need to start relying more on the ability to coach players and help them realise this massive potential. That way we secure better assets and ultimately start making profit.

A finished article Ki-Jana Hoever, with the realised potential, isn't plying his trade in the 2nd tier, he is in a top club and probably starting games for his country.

Dunno about you lot, but I think I would prefer we tried that, than sticking with Gooch, not that I have anything against him like.

He’s not our player
By all accounts his wages are large
Who knows what transfer fee he’d command
And tbh he’s been pretty shit for most of the season
I’d spend the money elsewhere, If we were in a position where we were just missing out on the play offs then yes maybe we’d only need a few in, and he could possibly someone we look… we aren’t in that position unfortunately but everyone’s opinion will be different

My reply was more about the idea of not being able to afford a luxury of players who have potential over tried and tested, rather than specifically and only Hoever.

I don't think he has been shit at all, in fact I think he has been pretty decent. 8 goal contributions from our full back in a team that has struggled to score?

Sadly, I think you are probably correct in that we couldn't afford him anyway.

[sticky]

Apr 23, 2024 17:57:24 GMT MilanStokie said:

Apr 23, 2024 17:52:45 GMT sticky said:

He’s not our player
By all accounts his wages are large
Who knows what transfer fee he’d command
And tbh he’s been pretty shit for most of the season
I’d spend the money elsewhere, If we were in a position where we were just missing out on the play offs then yes maybe we’d only need a few in, and he could possibly someone we look… we aren’t in that position unfortunately but everyone’s opinion will be different

My reply was more about the idea of not being able to afford a luxury of players who have potential over tried and tested, rather than specifically and only Hoever.

I don't think he has been shit at all, in fact I think he has been pretty decent. 8 goal contributions from our full back in a team that has struggled to score?

Sadly, I think you are probably correct in that we couldn't afford him anyway.

He scares the hell out of me tbh, I agree his goal contributions are excellent, but his positional awareness and tendencies to just switch off are worrying.
I do agree with some good coaching he'll end up having a good career
I just think schuey needs to get the signings spot on, because if next season doesn’t we don’t start well, the pressure will be on him from the off. Who knows what money we have, but strikers don’t come cheap and looking at our lot, we need major surgery there.. a good keeper and virtually a whole defence as well.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2024 15:52:34 GMT lordb said:

Apr 23, 2024 15:13:31 GMT @cvillestokie said:

Nor would he want to come. He’ll be back on the continent next year after a poor campaign this season.

you sure?

I feel pretty sure about it, yeah. To me, it’s a catch 22 for him and Stoke. If he’s happy just spinning his wheels at a likely relegation favorite in Stoke at his age, is that really the person we want in? He should be looking to progress. Every young player in the team should be looking at Stoke and thinking “I can do better”. Not in an egotistical way that leads them to being lackadaisical but in a driven, “no, I want to achieve as much as I can” way. If bottom half of the Championship is where he wants to be again, then he’s way too comfortable.

Over the course of the season, he’s been mostly crap anyways. He pops in with the odd goal, which is great, but it’s not like he’s a constant threat going forwards. How often does he actually create chances for others from decent runs in all the other games he’s failed to score in?

[robwahlmann]

It must be Junior time next season!

[smallthorner]

Season loan again.

Star in the making.

Some defensive fine tuning coaching and we have a gem for a term.

[st3mark]

A handful of magic moments again.

But we'll never get promoted with a defender who makes mistakes so regularly.

We have to look elsewhere.

[greenhoff]

Apr 24, 2024 19:28:14 GMT smallthorner said:

Season loan again.

Star in the making.

Some defensive fine tuning coaching and we have a gem for a term.

You’re not talking fine tuning though are you? His positional sense his awful. Obviously a really good footballer but shocking defensively.

[nonameface]

His goal involvement means we should look to get him back again on loan for one final season before most likely signing him summer of 25.

If we had to buy him this summer though i'd stand well clear as the funds should be used elsewhere, GK and CB as examples.

[questionable]

I’d say we concentrate on forward player who can score on a regular basis. We have JT who looks really good

[cyprus1stokey]

We've got a young man named Junior who's our player and in my opinion will be better than him, and hasn't cost a fortune.

[baconburger]

Apr 25, 2024 8:51:34 GMT cyprus1stokey said:

We've got a young man named Junior who's our player and in my opinion will be better than him, and hasn't cost a fortune.

That's a matter of taste Junior has power and physicality. Hoever is a far better technical player probably better than Junior will ever be. He suffers from occasional mental aberrations that maturity will minimise. At some stage he's going to have to take a step backward to try to move forward again in terms of his career and earning potential. It would be great if it was here. We've not seen a lot of Junior since the AFCON but what we did see was pretty ropey to put it mildly. 

[robwahlmann]

Apr 25, 2024 9:31:56 GMT baconburger said:

Apr 25, 2024 8:51:34 GMT cyprus1stokey said:

We've got a young man named Junior who's our player and in my opinion will be better than him, and hasn't cost a fortune.

That's a matter of taste Junior has power and physicality. Hoever is a far better technical player probably better than Junior will ever be. He suffers from occasional mental aberrations that maturity will minimise. At some stage he's going to have to take a step backward to try to move forward again in terms of his career and earning potential. It would be great if it was here. We've not seen a lot of Junior since the AFCON but what we did see was pretty ropey to put it mildly. 

Junior is by far the better defender of the two, but Hoever is better going forward. Anyway, if we stop conceding stupid goals we might not need to rely on fullbacks scoring that many.

[baconburger]

Apr 25, 2024 14:38:53 GMT robwahlmann said:

Apr 25, 2024 9:31:56 GMT baconburger said:

That's a matter of taste Junior has power and physicality. Hoever is a far better technical player probably better than Junior will ever be. He suffers from occasional mental aberrations that maturity will minimise. At some stage he's going to have to take a step backward to try to move forward again in terms of his career and earning potential. It would be great if it was here. We've not seen a lot of Junior since the AFCON but what we did see was pretty ropey to put it mildly. 

Junior is by far the better defender of the two, but Hoever is better going forward. Anyway, if we stop conceding stupid goals we might not need to rely on fullbacks scoring that many.

I'd much prefer to watch a free scoring team than an exceptional defensive one.

[chiswickpotter]

Apr 25, 2024 14:38:53 GMT robwahlmann said:

Apr 25, 2024 9:31:56 GMT baconburger said:

That's a matter of taste Junior has power and physicality. Hoever is a far better technical player probably better than Junior will ever be. He suffers from occasional mental aberrations that maturity will minimise. At some stage he's going to have to take a step backward to try to move forward again in terms of his career and earning potential. It would be great if it was here. We've not seen a lot of Junior since the AFCON but what we did see was pretty ropey to put it mildly. 

Junior is by far the better defender of the two, but Hoever is better going forward. Anyway, if we stop conceding stupid goals we might not need to rely on fullbacks scoring that many.

I am not sure we have evidence Junior is a better defender. He is not good at anticipating danger eg Leicester away, gets caught out of position like Cardiff and gets booked for reckless tackles eg Watford. I have also heard from several sources the plan for opponents is to let him have the ball as his technique and decision-making in possession are poor. As yet, we couldn’t rely on him fir a season.

[rowleyscfc]

Genuinely the best finisher we have at the club, which is extraordinary for a full back, has his faults but if he irons them out he will be one hell of a fullback, people forget his age

[Staffsoatcake]

Realistically is there anywhere we can play him apart from full back that will utilise is scoring ability?

[shakermaker]

Apr 25, 2024 15:31:54 GMT Staffsoatcake said:

Realistically is there anywhere we can play him apart front from full back that will utilise is scoring ability?

I think Neil played him as a winger in our goalless draw against Norwich last season. Didn't particularly set the world alight that game, but by his own admission Hoever prefers making those runs from deep rather than when already 'in the zone'.

[robwahlmann]

Apr 25, 2024 15:05:13 GMT chiswickpotter said:

Apr 25, 2024 14:38:53 GMT robwahlmann said:

Junior is by far the better defender of the two, but Hoever is better going forward. Anyway, if we stop conceding stupid goals we might not need to rely on fullbacks scoring that many.

I am not sure we have evidence Junior is a better defender. He is not good at anticipating danger eg Leicester away, gets caught out of position like Cardiff and gets booked for reckless tackles eg Watford. I have also heard from several sources the plan for opponents is to let him have the ball as his technique and decision-making in possession are poor. As yet, we couldn’t rely on him fir a season.

He is hard to beat one on one, Hoever isn't.

[robwahlmann]

Apr 25, 2024 14:56:13 GMT baconburger said:

Apr 25, 2024 14:38:53 GMT robwahlmann said:

Junior is by far the better defender of the two, but Hoever is better going forward. Anyway, if we stop conceding stupid goals we might not need to rely on fullbacks scoring that many.

I'd much prefer to watch a free scoring team than an exceptional defensive one.

Problem is that it's harder to score goals than to stop them.

[baconburger]

Apr 25, 2024 16:29:56 GMT robwahlmann said:

Apr 25, 2024 14:56:13 GMT baconburger said:

I'd much prefer to watch a free scoring team than an exceptional defensive one.

Problem is that it's harder to score goals than to stop them.

Doesn't seem to be if you look at almost any league table. Who were the last team to achieve anything significant that were really good defensively but didn't score many?

[baconburger]

Apr 25, 2024 15:05:13 GMT chiswickpotter said:

Apr 25, 2024 14:38:53 GMT robwahlmann said:

Junior is by far the better defender of the two, but Hoever is better going forward. Anyway, if we stop conceding stupid goals we might not need to rely on fullbacks scoring that many.

I am not sure we have evidence Junior is a better defender. He is not good at anticipating danger eg Leicester away, gets caught out of position like Cardiff and gets booked for reckless tackles eg Watford. I have also heard from several sources the plan for opponents is to let him have the ball as his technique and decision-making in possession are poor. As yet, we couldn’t rely on him fir a season.

As I said his performances after the AFCON were ropey to say the least. I still have high hopes for him but I think those who don't like Hoever are exaggerating his ability. He's got great raw ingredients but needs a lot of polishing.

[prestwichpotter]

Apr 25, 2024 16:42:16 GMT baconburger said:

Apr 25, 2024 16:29:56 GMT robwahlmann said:

Problem is that it's harder to score goals than to stop them.

Doesn't seem to be if you look at almost any league table. Who were the last team to achieve anything significant that were really good defensively but didn't score many?

Luton last season.......

[GeneralFaye]

He's not a winger, he doesn't have a trick or the pace. He's best when he can build up a head of steam and use his power running from deep, like with the goal on Saturday.

[Gary Hackett]

Apr 25, 2024 16:49:07 GMT GeneralFaye said:

He's not a winger, he doesn't have a trick or the pace. He's best when he can build up a head of steam and use his power running from deep, like with the goal on Saturday.

Absolutely, so combine that with the fact he can't defend and it makes him fairly useless especially on his wages.

[thehartshillbadger]

If not Hoever then someone else. No one can seriously say whether Tchamadeu is going to be the player we want him to be after very few and very inconsistent performances

[milton58]

Apr 25, 2024 17:09:12 GMT thehartshillbadger said:

If not Hoever then someone else. No one can seriously say whether Tchamadeu is going to be the player we want him to be after very few and very inconsistent performances

abit like hoever then

[thehartshillbadger]

Apr 25, 2024 17:15:02 GMT milton58 said:

Apr 25, 2024 17:09:12 GMT thehartshillbadger said:

If not Hoever then someone else. No one can seriously say whether Tchamadeu is going to be the player we want him to be after very few and very inconsistent performances

abit like hoever then

Hoever has certainly been inconsistent but obviously played a lot more. He has pedigree coming from a level above whereas Tchamadeu is untried at championship level. Hopefully with a full pre season he comes out all guns blazing. Would still need another right back though you’d think. Gooch can do a job but after that the cupboards a bit bare.

[RF10]

For the money he will cost as a competition right back, it's better spent in other areas. The remaining contract fee for FFP for Wolves in apparently 3.5m so they aren't going to let him go for much less than that.

[milton58]

Apr 25, 2024 17:17:57 GMT thehartshillbadger said:

Apr 25, 2024 17:15:02 GMT milton58 said:

abit like hoever then

Hoever has certainly been inconsistent but obviously played a lot more. He has pedigree coming from a level above whereas Tchamadeu is untried at championship level. Hopefully with a full pre season he comes out all guns blazing. Would still need another right back though you’d think. Gooch can do a job but after that the cupboards a bit bare.

yaaaaawwwnnn..













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