ian57
Academy Starlet
Posts: 128
|
Post by ian57 on Mar 1, 2024 9:57:57 GMT
I wake up every morning knowing that sad Iq khan is the mayor of my city and now George Galloway has been elected mp for Rochdale. British politics are completely fucked.
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Mar 1, 2024 9:58:46 GMT
What the fuck happened to Reform? In such a unique by-election where both main parties were basically taken out of the equation, their vote share decreased and they finished sixth. They chose a ex labour mp with a slight history of grooming 16 year old lasses I just read up on that, she was 17, not 16, and only 1 not plural, no difference to what he's done though, although he didn't break any laws, morally very wrong. I didn't realise he had been accused of rape in the London area, which was totally fictious, but would have been enough to scupper his last election campaign in 2019 as an independent, he received death threats because of it, shows how low social media can get with some people.
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 1, 2024 10:08:47 GMT
I wake up every morning knowing that sad Iq khan is the mayor of my city and now George Galloway has been elected mp for Rochdale. British politics are completely fucked. Wash your mouth out Khan’s doing a great job
|
|
|
Post by swampmongrel on Mar 1, 2024 10:09:54 GMT
It’s interesting that there isn’t actually anything contradictory about the two letters. One is obviously a pitch at the Muslim community whilst the other targets social conservatives. The Muslim community are generally (much) more conservative than the public at large so there’s nothing there that would necessarily concern them. Similarly, there’s no particular reason why a non-Muslim social conservative would have particularly strong views on Gaza either way. Sending different ‘tailored’ messages to different demographics is part and parcel of electoral politics.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2024 10:11:39 GMT
In a by election where reform came *check notes* 6th placed they've came out and went full trump this morning 🤣. Snowflakes. I don't particularly like Tice , but he isn't completely stupid. I think the electoral process and intimidation etc / how far " we" can go in safely and honestly presenting and preventing a different point of view needs to be looked at. Also I think he is dead right on postal votes, most are completely unnecessary and gives an unnecessary opportunity for fraud. ( and for me, those who say" evidence shows that electoral fraud is only a minority issue" are missing the point entirely. We should do our very best to eliminate ALL fraud. One vote could make a difference)
|
|
ian57
Academy Starlet
Posts: 128
|
Post by ian57 on Mar 1, 2024 10:33:07 GMT
I wake up every morning knowing that sad Iq khan is the mayor of my city and now George Galloway has been elected mp for Rochdale. British politics are completely fucked. Wash your mouth out Khan’s doing a great job he’s managing to do what the luftwaffe failed to do 😁
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 1, 2024 10:36:01 GMT
Does this result mean that Labour has lost its support in Northern ( and London) constituencies with large Muslim votes? Is that vote enough to " win " the seat in those constituencies? Will this carry over to the next election? Will it let in more independent candidates or will it encourage the emergence of party more representative of the Muslim vote in some constituencies? Apparently the second place independent candidate was well respected in the constituency. Galloway will stand a good chance at the next election. Like him or hate him....Rochdale has elected him and his views on Gaza ( the main issue) seem broadly in line with the more regular EE contributors on this issue. .I don't think that the Gaza issue will have a great direct bearing ( imo) across the country ( ie it won't be a canvassing issue) but will have had the effect of losing Labour and the Tories votes. Most of the seats with a large Muslim population are Labour "safe seats" so Starmer is making a fairly crude calculation that he can piss of Muslims with minimum effect.......
|
|
ian57
Academy Starlet
Posts: 128
|
Post by ian57 on Mar 1, 2024 10:36:47 GMT
In a by election where reform came *check notes* 6th placed they've came out and went full trump this morning 🤣. Snowflakes. I don't particularly like Tice , but he isn't completely stupid. I think the electoral process and intimidation etc / how far " we" can go in safely and honestly presenting and preventing a different point of view needs to be looked at. Also I think he is dead right on postal votes, most are completely unnecessary and gives an unnecessary opportunity for fraud. ( and for me, those who say" evidence shows that electoral fraud is only a minority issue" are missing the point entirely. We should do our very best to eliminate ALL fraud. One vote could make a difference) the people who vote decide nothing,the people who count the votes decide everything.
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Mar 1, 2024 10:38:16 GMT
Finally a bit of truth about what happened in the commons last week.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 1, 2024 10:46:56 GMT
In a by election where reform came *check notes* 6th placed they've came out and went full trump this morning 🤣. Snowflakes. I don't particularly like Tice , but he isn't completely stupid. I think the electoral process and intimidation etc / how far " we" can go in safely and honestly presenting and preventing a different point of view needs to be looked at. Also I think he is dead right on postal votes, most are completely unnecessary and gives an unnecessary opportunity for fraud. ( and for me, those who say" evidence shows that electoral fraud is only a minority issue" are missing the point entirely. We should do our very best to eliminate ALL fraud. One vote could make a difference) You were asking the other day BJR about populist politicians and the difference between left and right. Well what we saw last night, in Galloway, is a perfect example of a populist politician from the left. Hopefully his win, will get Starmer to have a rethink on his position on Gaza, as it becomes apparent to him that for a lot of traditional Labour voters, Palestine is a line that a Labour leader simply shouldn't cross. But as I said last night, it's still too early to tell if Galloway will become an actual thorn in Starmer's side. As for Tice, we'll it's a devastating blow for him and he was getting his excuses in early last night. It's all a rather bit odd that none of the other party's have complained about any intimidation at all and it does make you wonder if Tice is throwing his toys out of the pram a bit on this one. It'll be interesting to see if there are any prosecutions as a result of his claims, I rather suspect that there won't.
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Mar 1, 2024 10:48:30 GMT
In a by election where reform came *check notes* 6th placed they've came out and went full trump this morning 🤣. Snowflakes. I don't particularly like Tice , but he isn't completely stupid. I think the electoral process and intimidation etc / how far " we" can go in safely and honestly presenting and preventing a different point of view needs to be looked at. Also I think he is dead right on postal votes, most are completely unnecessary and gives an unnecessary opportunity for fraud. ( and for me, those who say" evidence shows that electoral fraud is only a minority issue" are missing the point entirely. We should do our very best to eliminate ALL fraud. One vote could make a difference) The reason reform lost isn't due to fraud or intimidation though. It probably has more to do with who they fielded. Completely agree on the postal votes and given JRM said the tories introduced voting Id to gerrymander. Its pretty obvious the changes they pushed through for postal votes is likely for the same reason too. I also find it funny people who bang on now about voting for foreign policy over local issues. Its nearly as if we haven't just had our last 3 elections dominated by foreign policy on our position in the EU while our countries public services were run into the ground.
|
|
|
Post by fullmetaljacket on Mar 1, 2024 11:06:05 GMT
Finally a bit of truth about what happened in the commons last week. Don't believe everything he says. I own that bridge. Plus a tower or two in Paris and Blackpool. Get your own bridge, George.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 1, 2024 11:09:20 GMT
This is laughably desperate stuff, and akin to when the Hartlepool by-election had supporters of the previous (disgraceful) Labour leader out in cult force 10. How does a candidate which Starmer removed support from, and if elected would have sat as in independent, be in anyway comparable to elections in '17 and '19. Meanwhile, Starmer's Labour party sits on poll leads of anywhere from 15 - 25 points. I feel for the people of Rochdale today, a candidate with an endorsement from Nick Griffin will darken the doorway of even the most rancid Parliament for however long it has left. The people of Rochdale have exercised their democratic right to vote in their preferred candidate. They don't want pity, they want their hospital back, they want their town centre regenerated, they want affordable housing and they want their football club to remain in existence. I have no time for George Galloway, but he represents an appetite for change (whether that be on the left or the right), the current electoral system makes that hard but it's a good thing that the main parties are getting a bloody nose, it might make them work harder for people's votes........
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2024 11:13:52 GMT
I don't particularly like Tice , but he isn't completely stupid. I think the electoral process and intimidation etc / how far " we" can go in safely and honestly presenting and preventing a different point of view needs to be looked at. Also I think he is dead right on postal votes, most are completely unnecessary and gives an unnecessary opportunity for fraud. ( and for me, those who say" evidence shows that electoral fraud is only a minority issue" are missing the point entirely. We should do our very best to eliminate ALL fraud. One vote could make a difference) You were asking the other day BJR about populist politicians and the difference between left and right. Well what we saw last night, in Galloway, is a perfect example of a populist politician from the left. Hopefully his win, will get Starmer to have a rethink on his position on Gaza, as it becomes apparent to him that for a lot of traditional Labour voters, Palestine is a line that a Labour leader simply shouldn't cross. But as I said last night, it's still too early to tell if Galloway will become an actual thorn in Starmer's side. As for Tice, we'll it's a devastating blow for him and he was getting his excuses in early last night. It's all a rather bit odd that none of the other party's have complained about any intimidation at all and it does make you wonder if Tice is throwing his toys out of the pram a bit on this one. It'll be interesting to see if there are any prosecutions as a result of his claims, I rather suspect that there won't. I don't think it is a big blow for Tice myself Paul. And I don't think we should ignore his concerns about intimidation ( and fraud), it does seem to be a wider issue than Rochdale recently. If he feels that candidates have been intimidated he should be listened to and evidence investigated. And it is not just Tice www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/conservatives-complain-intimidation-and-bullying-rochdale/www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/21/uk-electoral-commission-local-elections-may-candidate-intimidation
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Mar 1, 2024 11:15:10 GMT
Finally a bit of truth about what happened in the commons last week. Don't believe everything he says. I own that bridge. Plus a tower or two in Paris and Blackpool. Get your own bridge, George. 🤣🤣 Feel I'm coming across too strongly as a Galloway fan here with my posts. I disagree with some of Galloways beliefs and policies. I'm just pleased to see the status quo broken up and a real thorn to the establishment get elected. The establishment call us woke, snowflake, terrorist sympathisers, hate marchers, the mob etc.. This is a big two fingers up to their propoganda campaign. And that's why it pleases me. Think it also sort of highlights that some of those who believe in "defining women", controlling immigration, pro brexit etc.. literally just recite the papers. As this is a candidate who believes in alot of that and they're not happy because the papers tell them not to be. (Based on the reactions on twitter not here)
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2024 11:16:57 GMT
Does this result mean that Labour has lost its support in Northern ( and London) constituencies with large Muslim votes? Is that vote enough to " win " the seat in those constituencies? Will this carry over to the next election? Will it let in more independent candidates or will it encourage the emergence of party more representative of the Muslim vote in some constituencies? Apparently the second place independent candidate was well respected in the constituency. Galloway will stand a good chance at the next election. Like him or hate him....Rochdale has elected him and his views on Gaza ( the main issue) seem broadly in line with the more regular EE contributors on this issue. .I don't think that the Gaza issue will have a great direct bearing ( imo) across the country ( ie it won't be a canvassing issue) but will have had the effect of losing Labour and the Tories votes. Most of the seats with a large Muslim population are Labour "safe seats" so Starmer is making a fairly crude calculation that he can piss of Muslims with minimum effect....... True, I wonder if he he is partially going to do what Labour always seem to manage....as you say piss off people who thought that they could vote for him( to what extent, remains to be seen)
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Mar 1, 2024 11:19:03 GMT
At least we finally have something that the leaders of Labour, Conservative, lib dem and reform can agree on for once.
They really don't like when someone outside of their pro establishment collective get elected.
|
|
|
Post by starkiller on Mar 1, 2024 11:24:21 GMT
Does this result mean that Labour has lost its support in Northern ( and London) constituencies with large Muslim votes? Is that vote enough to " win " the seat in those constituencies? Will this carry over to the next election? Will it let in more independent candidates or will it encourage the emergence of party more representative of the Muslim vote in some constituencies? Apparently the second place independent candidate was well respected in the constituency. Galloway will stand a good chance at the next election. Like him or hate him....Rochdale has elected him and his views on Gaza ( the main issue) seem broadly in line with the more regular EE contributors on this issue. .I don't think that the Gaza issue will have a great direct bearing ( imo) across the country ( ie it won't be a canvassing issue) but will have had the effect of losing Labour and the Tories votes. Most of the seats with a large Muslim population are Labour "safe seats" so Starmer is making a fairly crude calculation that he can piss of Muslims with minimum effect....... Therefore Muslim demands can hold sway over the Labour Party. And that won't go down well with most of the electorate. And I was dismissed on here weeks ago when I said the loss of Muslim vote will be a huge problem for Labour.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2024 11:27:28 GMT
I don't particularly like Tice , but he isn't completely stupid. I think the electoral process and intimidation etc / how far " we" can go in safely and honestly presenting and preventing a different point of view needs to be looked at. Also I think he is dead right on postal votes, most are completely unnecessary and gives an unnecessary opportunity for fraud. ( and for me, those who say" evidence shows that electoral fraud is only a minority issue" are missing the point entirely. We should do our very best to eliminate ALL fraud. One vote could make a difference) The reason reform lost isn't due to fraud or intimidation though. It probably has more to do with who they fielded. Completely agree on the postal votes and given JRM said the tories introduced voting Id to gerrymander. Its pretty obvious the changes they pushed through for postal votes is likely for the same reason too. I also find it funny people who bang on now about voting for foreign policy over local issues. Its nearly as if we haven't just had our last 3 elections dominated by foreign policy on our position in the EU while our countries public services were run into the ground. Our Position in relation to the EU ( is) was very much a national UK issue, not a foreign issue. The Gaza question will not be a national issue at the next election.
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Mar 1, 2024 11:27:51 GMT
What the fuck happened to Reform? In such a unique by-election where both main parties were basically taken out of the equation, their vote share decreased and they finished sixth. More concerned with more UK traditional issues than Gaza, so not directly relevant to the main issue here? I think we are seeing the emergence of " specialist issue " constituencies...I guess it is another anomaly of the British electoral system, that whilst we have a constituency system most ( imo) people vote for their national government at General elections, but not by-elections,in the main. Completely agree with your second Para Who knows what the World/Domestic issues will be at the forefront at GE probably October
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2024 11:32:06 GMT
More concerned with more UK traditional issues than Gaza, so not directly relevant to the main issue here? I think we are seeing the emergence of " specialist issue " constituencies...I guess it is another anomaly of the British electoral system, that whilst we have a constituency system most ( imo) people vote for their national government at General elections, but not by-elections,in the main. Completely agree with your second Para Who knows what the World/Domestic issues will be at the forefront at GE probably October No one knows but it is usually The economy The record of the incumbent government The Health service Education The leaders of the parties The alternatives Inequality, looking after the vulnerable. Immigration Traditional voting patterns And much less so, Global issues, the environment, electoral reform, quality of incumbent MP ALL with variations , in my opinion
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 1, 2024 11:34:17 GMT
Most of the seats with a large Muslim population are Labour "safe seats" so Starmer is making a fairly crude calculation that he can piss of Muslims with minimum effect....... True, I wonder if he he is partially going to do what Labour always seem to manage....as you say piss off people who thought that they could vote for him( to what extent remains to be seen) The big problem for the two main parties is that they are trying to maintain a coalition of voters with incompatible views so they either end up contradicting themselves or sounding completely bland. The problem is the range of views out there can no longer be accommodated by the two party system - in order to properly represent people you need a bigger range of parties each properly representing a particular political perspective. The two main parties are wedded to FPTP because that massively skews the vote in their favour and gives them exclusive access to power by ensuring the smaller parties are under represented. We aren't going to get proper representative democracy until FPTP is scrapped and PT is introduced. I don't like either Galloway's or Tice's politics but they represent the views of a significant number of the electorate and deserve to represent them in Parliament. As things stand both the Labour and Tory leadership are backing a system that is fundamentally undemocratic in order to force people into choosing something they don't really want - which for me is a big reason for people being disillusioned with politics.
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 1, 2024 11:39:08 GMT
What the fuck happened to Reform? In such a unique by-election where both main parties were basically taken out of the equation, their vote share decreased and they finished sixth. More concerned with more UK traditional issues than Gaza, so not directly relevant to the main issue here? I think we are seeing the emergence of " specialist issue " constituencies...I guess it is another anomaly of the British electoral system, that whilst we have a constituency system most ( imo) people vote for their national government at General elections, but not by-elections,in the main. The Gaza issue explains why George Galloway won, but I'm not sure it explains Reform's performance given the second-placed independent did not campaign about Gaza/Israel (as far as I'm aware). I would assume their choice of candidate costs them some votes - which begs the question, did they not have anyone better?
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Mar 1, 2024 11:42:48 GMT
Big George is such an engima: - Pro brexit - Wants controlled immigration - Can "define a woman" - Anti Scottish Independance - Ally of Farage - Pro Gaza Maybe it's more of an indictment on how our politicians have fallen in recent years. But I'm looking forward to seeing Galloway add something different yo our politics. Not a fan of all his policies but out of the candidates which stood, I'm pleased to see one seat less for the big two parties. Don't forget -Anti NATO -Putin Sympathiser Like a Bag of Revels you're never sure what you're going to bite into.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2024 11:45:51 GMT
More concerned with more UK traditional issues than Gaza, so not directly relevant to the main issue here? I think we are seeing the emergence of " specialist issue " constituencies...I guess it is another anomaly of the British electoral system, that whilst we have a constituency system most ( imo) people vote for their national government at General elections, but not by-elections,in the main. The Gaza issue explains why George Galloway won, but I'm not sure it explains Reform's performance given the second-placed independent did not campaign about Gaza/Israel (as far as I'm aware). I would assume their choice of candidate costs them some votes - which begs the question, did they not have anyone better? Reform (and UKIP) did seem to attract some odd bod characters/ mavericks. Having said that perhaps Galloway could almost be in the same category, a one off, a chequered history. Yet he was elected. don't think Reform has any chance whatsoever, nor the Tories, Just as George would have no chance in Surrey, Devon etc nor most constituencies across the UK. Perhaps we should stick to policies not personalities as far as possible.
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Mar 1, 2024 11:49:42 GMT
They chose a ex labour mp with a slight history of grooming 16 year old lasses Appropriate for Rochdale then... So you're saying Reform deliberately chose a Candidate with a dodgy record with young girls and were trounced and rejected in the Election HAve you thought this through?
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 1, 2024 12:09:31 GMT
Most of the seats with a large Muslim population are Labour "safe seats" so Starmer is making a fairly crude calculation that he can piss of Muslims with minimum effect....... Therefore Muslim demands can hold sway over the Labour Party. And that won't go down well with most of the electorate. And I was dismissed on here weeks ago when I said the loss of Muslim vote will be a huge problem for Labour. If the Muslim vote holding sway over the Labour Party won't go down well with most of the electorate then surely losing the Muslim vote will go down well with most of the electorate because they will no longer be seen as being swayed by Muslim vote. So how is losing the Muslim vote a big problem for Labour? Congratulations - you have managed to make two completely contradictory statements in a single post.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Mar 1, 2024 12:11:59 GMT
Would Galloway have won had Starmer stance re Israel been neutral? How can you have a neutral stance on Gaza? Say nothing and you are tacitly supporting what Israel are doing. Galloway would still have won by (rightly) pointing out Labours refusal to address the issue shows a complete lack of backbone and an inability to deal with a major issue of the day. Easy, he should have stated that both Israel and Hamas have acted appallingly Instead Starmer has fallen in with the government and just blamed Hamas As its developed then any backing of Israel seems untenable to me Completely agree re the lack of backbone
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Mar 1, 2024 12:12:29 GMT
I wake up every morning knowing that sad Iq khan is the mayor of my city and now George Galloway has been elected mp for Rochdale. British politics are completely fucked. Crikey, it's a good job you don't think about who's actually running the country, now that would be scary.
|
|
|
Post by foghornsgleghorn on Mar 1, 2024 12:16:12 GMT
The Gaza issue explains why George Galloway won, but I'm not sure it explains Reform's performance given the second-placed independent did not campaign about Gaza/Israel (as far as I'm aware). I would assume their choice of candidate costs them some votes - which begs the question, did they not have anyone better? Reform (and UKIP) did seem to attract some odd bod characters/ mavericks. Having said that perhaps Galloway could almost be in the same category, a one off, a chequered history. Yet he was elected. don't think Reform has any chance whatsoever, nor the Tories, Just as George would have no chance in Surrey, Devon etc nor most constituencies across the UK. Perhaps we should stick to policies not personalities as far as possible. Great idea about personalities. That would be the end of that wanker Farage for a start.
|
|