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Post by Seymour Beaver on Oct 6, 2023 12:17:56 GMT
It's not about having an opinion that Keegan takes issue with. It's when female ex-footballers (of an inferior level) make a direct comparison between the mens game and themselves. "But if I see an England lady footballer saying about England against Scotland at Wembley and she's saying, ' If I would have been in that position I would have done this,' I don't think it's quite the same. I don't think it crosses over that much." It's not like women to think they always know best. Typical 'Womansplaining'. Did any female pundit in an England/Scotland actually say that? Or is Keegan just making stuff up to offend himself? |
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Post by chiswickpotter on Oct 6, 2023 12:29:26 GMT
No not at all. I’m saying that women’s sport should be championed by women. That’s obvious I know. Also there’s nothing wrong in expecting men to champion their game. Let’s be honest here, many women who commentate on the men’s side of the sport are doing so on the premise that it is good for the women’s side of that sport. Why should that be necessary? The answer in my humble opinion is that the women’s sport isn’t gaining traction on its own because many women aren’t that bothered. Which if that’s the case means they’ve exercised their free will and that’s also fine. This forcing of the issue is desperate. What’s wrong with letting it develop organically and letting those who want to watch/participate do that and those that don’t get on with their lives? Genuinely have no issue with women’s sport by the way, good luck to them, but having women commenting on the men’s game shouldn’t be needed. There are many ex-professionals out there probably desperate for that gig that possibly get overlooked because they don’t fit the so-called demographic. If that's true and they're just doing it to further the women's game (and i don't see how a faceless Emma Hayes as co-commentator talking about two men's teams furthers women's football in any way myself, i dont tnink she even mentions women's football when co-commentating on men's matches) then it makes NO sense whatsoever to have female pundits on a MOTD or a Champs league game in the first place. That can't be the reason. How exactly would it further the women's game, if women have already exercised their free will and decided they're not interested in football anyway? If that's what they've decided then they're not watching MOTD or Champs league games in the first place anyway to see those female pundits, so it wouldn't have any chance to further anything. I think it's more likely to simply be the case that football has realised now that, even whether you as a bloke like women's football or not, there are millions of women who do love football full stop (either men or women's football or both) and it therefore isn't just solely a TV show for men that's being aired. Really, nothing more complex than that. If they cater to the WHOLE audience (not just the blokes) then they're likely to get more viewers. But no, everyone just throws out ideas like yours above or says it's "box ticking" because it's lazy and easy, despite the fact that about 10 seconds of thinking about it would make you realise that it makes no kind of actual sense.
Agreed and also because of the evidence "if you can't see it, you can't be it". Many girls may want to become journalists, commentators, pundits, coaches but need to have role models. in reality, the current crop of female ex-players and emerging coaches will have been recipients of elite level coaching and teaching for a long time and probably have greater tactical insight then men of a generation earlier such as Michael Owen, Danny Murphy and the like. |
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Post by Glory Hunter on Oct 6, 2023 12:37:07 GMT
I watched the post match chat around the pitch side after the Doncaster v Everton game in the cup (that Everton we’re lucky to win), and Shaun Dyche was given a lecture in tactics by an articulate but also naive woman footballer. His face was just a picture and the words that came to mind are something like “ you haven’t got a single clue what goes on in a full blooded cup tie involving an elite (premier league) team v a 2nd Div team that the officials are struggling to keep a hold off”. I felt her comments on that occasion were for the classroom tactics lesson - real life it’s very different.
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Post by skip on Oct 6, 2023 12:49:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2023 12:49:06 GMT
I watched the post match chat around the pitch side after the Doncaster v Everton game in the cup (that Everton we’re lucky to win), and Shaun Dyche was given a lecture in tactics by an articulate but also naive woman footballer. His face was just a picture and the words that came to mind are something like “ you haven’t got a single clue what goes on in a full blooded cup tie involving an elite (premier league) team v a 2nd Div team that the officials are struggling to keep a hold off”. I felt her comments on that occasion were for the classroom tactics lesson - real life it’s very different. There’s an interview of Brian Clough that was put on the last thread that moaned about female pundits. www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/the-more-things-change-the-more-they-stay-the-same-brian-clough-interview.154449/He just moans about pundits altogether saying that they deliberately try to overcomplicate a fairly straightforward game. I agree with his opinion. Football punditry is a stupid job. Most people watching a game can see right from the off if their team is up for it or not. Players make split second decisions that sometimes are wrong. Does it need dissecting by any pundit? Not really. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 6, 2023 12:55:25 GMT
If a Man who played international football transitions to a woman should she be allowed to be the pundit on a womans game? or visa versa? Its football everyones opinion is valid. Ooh look can of worms lets see what's inside 😆 🤣 |
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Post by spitthedog on Oct 6, 2023 13:04:30 GMT
I watched the post match chat around the pitch side after the Doncaster v Everton game in the cup (that Everton we’re lucky to win), and Shaun Dyche was given a lecture in tactics by an articulate but also naive woman footballer. His face was just a picture and the words that came to mind are something like “ you haven’t got a single clue what goes on in a full blooded cup tie involving an elite (premier league) team v a 2nd Div team that the officials are struggling to keep a hold off”. I felt her comments on that occasion were for the classroom tactics lesson - real life it’s very different. There’s an interview of Brian Clough that was put on the last thread that moaned about female pundits. www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/the-more-things-change-the-more-they-stay-the-same-brian-clough-interview.154449/He just moans about pundits altogether saying that they deliberately try to overcomplicate a fairly straightforward game. I agree with his opinion. Football punditry is a stupid job. Most people watching a game can see right from the off if their team is up for it or not. Players make split second decisions that sometimes are wrong. Does it need dissecting by any pundit? Not really. Exactly!....Football punditry...Why? I can only think that listening to football punditry is some kind of poor substitute for talking with your mates post match in the pub. If you are sitting at home on your own then maybe there is something of value of hearing a few people chatting about a game afterwards, even though you are a complete outsider and dont get any chance to participate. Other than that, the analysis is just so banal and uninspiring, and its been like this for decades. It's never really progressed. Its always been jobs for the boys, and ex-players who think they just need to turn up in a studio to do the job, wheel out the usual cliches and indulge in all the old boys back slapping. A lot of them don't even watch the games they comment on. I just haven't seen any for a few years because I switch off once a game is finished. I just cant imagine how female pundits can make it any worse. The few times I heard Kevin Keegan talk about football, I felt like I was losing the will to live. |
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 6, 2023 13:05:17 GMT
I watched the post match chat around the pitch side after the Doncaster v Everton game in the cup (that Everton we’re lucky to win), and Shaun Dyche was given a lecture in tactics by an articulate but also naive woman footballer. His face was just a picture and the words that came to mind are something like “ you haven’t got a single clue what goes on in a full blooded cup tie involving an elite (premier league) team v a 2nd Div team that the officials are struggling to keep a hold off”. I felt her comments on that occasion were for the classroom tactics lesson - real life it’s very different. Sean 'the Burnley way' Dyche. He should have taken note. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 6, 2023 13:06:12 GMT
I watched the post match chat around the pitch side after the Doncaster v Everton game in the cup (that Everton we’re lucky to win), and Shaun Dyche was given a lecture in tactics by an articulate but also naive woman footballer. His face was just a picture and the words that came to mind are something like “ you haven’t got a single clue what goes on in a full blooded cup tie involving an elite (premier league) team v a 2nd Div team that the officials are struggling to keep a hold off”. I felt her comments on that occasion were for the classroom tactics lesson - real life it’s very different. There’s an interview of Brian Clough that was put on the last thread that moaned about female pundits. www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/the-more-things-change-the-more-they-stay-the-same-brian-clough-interview.154449/He just moans about pundits altogether saying that they deliberately try to overcomplicate a fairly straightforward game. I agree with his opinion. Football punditry is a stupid job. Most people watching a game can see right from the off if their team is up for it or not. Players make split second decisions that sometimes are wrong. Does it need dissecting by any pundit? Not really. I think a good pundit can really enhance a game of football and highlight things I hadn't noticed or put a different slant on things. Clough himself had no problem taking ITV's shilling as a pundit. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 6, 2023 13:07:01 GMT
I watched the post match chat around the pitch side after the Doncaster v Everton game in the cup (that Everton we’re lucky to win), and Shaun Dyche was given a lecture in tactics by an articulate but also naive woman footballer. His face was just a picture and the words that came to mind are something like “ you haven’t got a single clue what goes on in a full blooded cup tie involving an elite (premier league) team v a 2nd Div team that the officials are struggling to keep a hold off”. I felt her comments on that occasion were for the classroom tactics lesson - real life it’s very different. She should have spoken to him pre-match, first half they played like they'd never been coached in their life before............ |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2023 13:12:32 GMT
I think a good pundit can really enhance a game of football and highlight things I hadn't noticed or put a different slant on things. Clough himself had no problem taking ITV's shilling as a pundit. That’s perfectly fine and a completely reasonable opinion to have. R.e. Clough, it is also perfectly possible for him to both be right about punditry, and happy to be a hypocrite when it suits him financially. |
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Post by spitthedog on Oct 6, 2023 13:13:17 GMT
I think a good pundit can really enhance a game of football and highlight things I hadn't noticed or put a different slant on things. Clough himself had no problem taking ITV's shilling as a pundit. Well, he was full of contradictions, but hit the nail on the head from time to time. |
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Post by a on Oct 6, 2023 13:40:46 GMT
quite a few from what Ive read and heard, maybe just not you? Who |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 6, 2023 20:40:53 GMT
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Post by Gods on Oct 6, 2023 21:00:56 GMT
For those of us growing up when Kevin Keegan was in his pomp this one is kind of hard to get your head around.
Keegan, a small man with a big afro perm was kind of the new breed, a one man statement of the brave new world, the next step on from the bryl cream and side parting brigade.
It seems strange to see him, I suspect reluctantly, set up as the champion of the old world.
Even his 'lady footballers', intended to be polite, sounds kind of old fashioned and paternal.
Has he just got out of touch, stuck in a world time has forgotten, too long on the golf course?
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Post by blackpoolred on Oct 6, 2023 23:33:45 GMT
Just trying to think of my favourite sports commentators, not just footy, and as I rack my brain I can't honestly think of a single male pundit that I like or that I think is outstanding.
I also think there are a lot of women commentators that are woeful, but when I have to come up with my favourites they are all female: Gabby Logan, Hazel Irvine, Eildidh Barbour and Clare Balding are all class - maybe Shearer for the men, but not in the league of the afore mentioned.
Do we call out all the atrocious male pundits like we do the females?
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Post by independent on Oct 6, 2023 23:59:04 GMT
I think a good pundit can really enhance a game of football and highlight things I hadn't noticed or put a different slant on things. Clough himself had no problem taking ITV's shilling as a pundit. That’s perfectly fine and a completely reasonable opinion to have. R.e. Clough, it is also perfectly possible for him to both be right about punditry, and happy to be a hypocrite when it suits him financially. I remember Kevin keegan describing how he shared a studio with Clough during a match(think it was a Germany world cup game). Clough sat with his back to the screen and talked away all through the first half. When called upon to offer his opinion at half time, Clough described the game correctly as if he had actually watched it. Keegan was baffled and amazed in equal measure. Perhaps Clough's actions could be taken as an indication of his opinion of pundits and how difficult their job actually is. Regarding Women pundits/commentators, I like Gabby Logan and Kelly Cates among others, simply because they don't have high pitched, sqeaky voices and horrible accents. I don't know where they get some of the Women they choose. There was one on during the week presenting a European tie who was dreadful. She was assisted by an ex England Woman Goalkeeper who was much more pleasant to listen to. Regarding Emma Hayes not being there to promote the Women's game,She is. It is all about visability. Despite the inordinate amount of coverage that Women's football is getting, it is surprising how hard it is to get attendance figures for the 12 league games that take place each week. It is very easy to read of the latest attendance record that has been broken, but the other 11 games is often impossible. |
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Oct 7, 2023 0:30:37 GMT
Seriously, is this really worth 5 pages (to date), no doubt more..... Sigh!!! 🙄
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Post by PotterLog on Oct 7, 2023 1:23:17 GMT
For those of us growing up when Kevin Keegan was in his pomp this one is kind of hard to get your head around. Keegan, a small man with a big afro perm was kind of the new breed, a one man statement of the brave new world, the next step on from the bryl cream and side parting brigade. It seems strange to see him, I suspect reluctantly, set up as the champion of the old world. Even his 'lady footballers', intended to be polite, sounds kind of old fashioned and paternal. Has he just got out of touch, stuck in a world time has forgotten, too long on the golf course? Ya think |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2023 4:25:42 GMT
Some nobody ex woman footballer calling Kevin Keegan irrelevant is ironic. |
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Post by Goonie on Oct 7, 2023 8:17:07 GMT
I'm not a fan of female punditry on male games about as much as the average female dislikes male punditry on theirs
I despise this new media ideolically driven agenda to promote the female game wherever possible. If it's good enough people will watch it. It's about the quality of the spectacle not parity of the genders. Most games I've watched are on par with schoolboy levels, even international level under 18 at best. You wouldn't buy bread from a female baker to be 'fair' but rather you'd shop with who made the best bread.
If women want true equality scrap the gender divide and let them compete with men in the same league/teams. This won't happen because men are vastly superior physically.
I consider myself a supporter of feminism but they only want equality when it tips into their favour
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Oct 7, 2023 8:18:40 GMT
Seriously, is this really worth 5 pages (to date), no doubt more..... Sigh!!! 🙄 He says as he adds to the page count 😅 |
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Post by nott1 on Oct 7, 2023 8:39:22 GMT
For those of us growing up when Kevin Keegan was in his pomp this one is kind of hard to get your head around. Keegan, a small man with a big afro perm was kind of the new breed, a one man statement of the brave new world, the next step on from the bryl cream and side parting brigade. It seems strange to see him, I suspect reluctantly, set up as the champion of the old world. Even his 'lady footballers', intended to be polite, sounds kind of old fashioned and paternal. Has he just got out of touch, stuck in a world time has forgotten, too long on the golf course? I think he has forgutten more about mens football than most females will ever know! |
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Post by GeneralFaye on Oct 7, 2023 9:05:19 GMT
The way some of you get worked up about pundits is embarrassing.
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Post by Gods on Oct 7, 2023 9:06:25 GMT
Seriously, is this really worth 5 pages (to date), no doubt more..... Sigh!!! 🙄 It's the football story of our time isn't it? The growth of the women's game and the inevitable next question, when and how does it exist alongside the mens game? Must be worth a mid-size thread?! |
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 7, 2023 9:09:00 GMT
For those of us growing up when Kevin Keegan was in his pomp this one is kind of hard to get your head around. Keegan, a small man with a big afro perm was kind of the new breed, a one man statement of the brave new world, the next step on from the bryl cream and side parting brigade. It seems strange to see him, I suspect reluctantly, set up as the champion of the old world. Even his 'lady footballers', intended to be polite, sounds kind of old fashioned and paternal. Has he just got out of touch, stuck in a world time has forgotten, too long on the golf course? Woman is a fact. Lady is a judgement |
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 7, 2023 9:17:48 GMT
For those of us growing up when Kevin Keegan was in his pomp this one is kind of hard to get your head around. Keegan, a small man with a big afro perm was kind of the new breed, a one man statement of the brave new world, the next step on from the bryl cream and side parting brigade. It seems strange to see him, I suspect reluctantly, set up as the champion of the old world. Even his 'lady footballers', intended to be polite, sounds kind of old fashioned and paternal. Has he just got out of touch, stuck in a world time has forgotten, too long on the golf course? I think he has forgutten more about mens football than most females will ever know! He certainly had when managing England. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2023 9:39:20 GMT
Probably the last person you’d want to leap to your defence… |
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Post by chiprockets on Oct 7, 2023 9:55:22 GMT
Probably the last person you’d want to leap to your defence… if only he could have fucking leapt against Germany |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Oct 7, 2023 9:59:28 GMT
Anyone erudite with a strong knowledge of the game, of any gender, should be able to be a pundit. I’d rather here from Jonathan Wilson than Ray Parlour. Emma Hayes talks more sense about football and has more interesting things to say than Danny Murphy’s uttered in his entire punditry career. About football in general perhaps. But Keegan is talking about women commenting on elite international men’s football, which however you dress it up Hayes or any other female commentator is not qualified to talk about Probably any list of 'best commentators of all time' disproves that theory. A few of my favourites who never competed anywhere near the world class level they commentated on include Murray Walker, Barry Davies, and Ted Lowe. And Davies commentated on all sorts of sports. |
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