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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 13, 2024 12:28:34 GMT
I think the problem is that you’ve butted in and have decided to try and argue Bayern’s point without actually looking at what he’s said. 🤣what hes said is spot on and he’s just agreeing with me. A head coach will be thinking short term and the club have to negate that. If plauers like Sidibe and Tezgel can’t get a look in then there should be decisions to be made. It’s not black and white and they might be in bad form etc and they shouldn’t be picked if they are. But it is absolutely something that should be above the head coach. You have to protect your assets. If you don’t have trust in the manager to play the right players why is he in the job? You saying a manager should be told who to play is the point I think is bollocks. |
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 13, 2024 12:30:36 GMT
“The club believes are good enough “ What the fuck does that even mean??!! Who are “the club”? The sporting and academy directors. Long term appointments who will or should have the best interests of the club at heart. Something a head coach won’t. You’re just spouting absolute shite now. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 13, 2024 12:31:22 GMT
🤣what hes said is spot on and he’s just agreeing with me. A head coach will be thinking short term and the club have to negate that. If plauers like Sidibe and Tezgel can’t get a look in then there should be decisions to be made. It’s not black and white and they might be in bad form etc and they shouldn’t be picked if they are. But it is absolutely something that should be above the head coach. You have to protect your assets. If you don’t have trust in the manager to play the right players why is he in the job? You saying a manager should be told who to play is the point I think is bollocks. It’s not about trust, it’s about setting them rules they need to abide by to stick the club ethos. Developing and playing the young plauers that are good enough should be part of that. He’s not the manager. |
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 13, 2024 12:31:45 GMT
Explain it please because I’m genuinely not sure. Either way though I would assume a manager or head coach is ultimately responsible for selecting the team. Or am I wrong? it’s simple isn’t it ? a head coach coaches the players a manager manages the club Who selects the team? What is Schumacher? Coach or manager? And who selects the Stoke team? |
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 13, 2024 12:32:26 GMT
If you don’t have trust in the manager to play the right players why is he in the job? You saying a manager should be told who to play is the point I think is bollocks. It’s not about trust, it’s about setting them rules they need to abide by to stick the club ethos. Developing and playing the young plauers that are good enough should be part of that. He’s not the manager. So he’s not the man responsible for selecting the team then? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 13, 2024 12:32:43 GMT
The sporting and academy directors. Long term appointments who will or should have the best interests of the club at heart. Something a head coach won’t. You’re just spouting absolute shite now. It’s not though is it? Head coaches are at clubs on average for about 2 years, why would they care past the end of the current season? Why would they care how good Sol Sidibe could be in 3 years time? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 13, 2024 12:33:25 GMT
It’s not about trust, it’s about setting them rules they need to abide by to stick the club ethos. Developing and playing the young plauers that are good enough should be part of that. He’s not the manager. So he’s not the man responsible for selecting the team then? It should be within parameters. And if those parameters aren’t being met then there are questions to be answered. |
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 13, 2024 12:35:14 GMT
You’re just spouting absolute shite now. It’s not though is it? Head coaches are at clubs on average for about 2 years, why would they care past the end of the current season? Why would they care how good Sol Sidibe could be in 3 years time? You don’t think a coach looks beyond the end of the season? Kieran McKenna? Pep? Arteta? They don’t look ahead and plan for the future? Wtf are you actually talking about? |
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 13, 2024 12:35:58 GMT
So he’s not the man responsible for selecting the team then? It should be within parameters. And if those parameters aren’t being met then there are questions to be answered. Huh? I’m stepping out of this now because your nonsense is giving me a pain in the head. |
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Post by thornestein on Jul 13, 2024 12:36:38 GMT
it’s simple isn’t it ? a head coach coaches the players a manager manages the club Who selects the team? What is Schumacher? Coach or manager? And who selects the Stoke team? Coach coach coach |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 13, 2024 12:37:46 GMT
It’s not though is it? Head coaches are at clubs on average for about 2 years, why would they care past the end of the current season? Why would they care how good Sol Sidibe could be in 3 years time? You don’t think a coach looks beyond the end of the season? Kieran McKenna? Pep? Arteta? They don’t look ahead and plan for the future? Wtf are you actually talking about? Not really no. Why would they if they know they probably won’t be there? You’re taking about two of the best and not the normal there. Your average jobbing football league manager/head coach won’t give a shit. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 13, 2024 12:38:19 GMT
It should be within parameters. And if those parameters aren’t being met then there are questions to be answered. Huh? I’m stepping out of this now because your nonsense is giving me a pain in the head. Rules ie what I’ve been saying all along. And it’s what will I expect be happening. |
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Jul 13, 2024 12:55:09 GMT
I think the problem is that you’ve butted in and have decided to try and argue Bayern’s point without actually looking at what he’s said. 🤣what hes said is spot on and he’s just agreeing with me. A head coach will be thinking short term and the club have to negate that. If plauers like Sidibe and Tezgel can’t get a look in then there should be decisions to be made. It’s not black and white and they might be in bad form etc and they shouldn’t be picked if they are. But it is absolutely something that should be above the head coach. You have to protect your assets. I think I repeated myself a few times anyway to no avail so I’m going to bow out on the subject. I think throughout the season if Tezgel and Sidibe don’t see decent game time then many fans will be calling for it and questioning the head coach. The club will be doing the same, just with qualified people who set the parameters. To keep it relevant too, I like Sidibe, I don’t think he believes he’s as good as he can be. This next year could be massive if “the club” get it right  |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 13, 2024 13:05:02 GMT
🤣what hes said is spot on and he’s just agreeing with me. A head coach will be thinking short term and the club have to negate that. If plauers like Sidibe and Tezgel can’t get a look in then there should be decisions to be made. It’s not black and white and they might be in bad form etc and they shouldn’t be picked if they are. But it is absolutely something that should be above the head coach. You have to protect your assets. I think I repeated myself a few times anyway to no avail so I’m going to bow out on the subject. I think throughout the season if Tezgel and Sidibe don’t see decent game time then many fans will be calling for it and questioning the head coach. The club will be doing the same, just with qualified people who set the parameters. To keep it relevant too, I like Sidibe, I don’t think he believes he’s as good as he can be. This next year could be massive if “the club” get it right Interesting last paragraph? Why do you think he doesn’t believe that? I think he’s tremendously level headed and at ease with that tbh. |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jul 13, 2024 13:25:25 GMT
It’s not about trust, it’s about setting them rules they need to abide by to stick the club ethos. Developing and playing the young plauers that are good enough should be part of that. He’s not the manager. So he’s not the man responsible for selecting the team then? If Shue isn't the one picking the team,why then is he the one who gets the sack if things don't go well? |
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Post by MilanStokie on Jul 13, 2024 13:36:09 GMT
Some proper weird arguments on here today. Here are a few pointers I would like to add:
- The club has invested a ridiculous amount of money on the creation of an academy, staff, facilities and recruitment, which so far has brought about 2-3 really good prospects that have turned a healthy profit
- The club decided to create a Technical Director position, which has transformed into a Sporting Director position
Therefore, it would be criminal for the stakeholders not to be interested in protecting these investments and it would be within everyone's interest that the development of certain youth players is a high priority.
The likes of Sidibe and Tezgel (if not loaned out) must get minutes to aid in their development. And it will be on SS to find appropriate opportunities to make this happen. There is no way JW will be dictating when and where, but for sure he will have handed SS some target numbers to work on.
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Post by raythesailor on Jul 13, 2024 13:48:21 GMT
Hopefully we may have games where we have a comfortable lead in the second half and have the ideal opportunity to bring them on.
If they are doing well in training and perform when they are bought on the next step would be the starting eleven.
The preseason friendlies are an ideal opportunity to stake their claim to a place.
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Post by thornestein on Jul 13, 2024 13:54:19 GMT
for me , though i think both Sidibe and Tezgel will probably get in the team on merit through out the season , the main objective is to win games , hence you play your best players on the day who ever that maybe
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jul 13, 2024 13:54:20 GMT
Hopefully we may have games where we have a comfortable lead in the second half and have the ideal opportunity to bring them on. If they are doing well in training and perform when they are bought on the next step would be the starting eleven. The preseason friendlies are an ideal opportunity to stake their claim to a place. 4-0 and going into time added on is my comfortable and that don't happen often 😁 |
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Post by MilanStokie on Jul 13, 2024 14:00:21 GMT
for me , though i think both Sidibe and Tezgel will probably get in the team on merit through out the season , the main objective is to win games , hence you play your best players on the day who ever that maybe If you look at it is a sport, correct. But it's a long time since Football was more sport than business. Sidibe and Tezgel are considered to be hugely talented with massive potential. Having an academy means we need to capitalise on such talents. Help them realise the potential. If not, what is the point of an academy? Might as well close it down immediately. Even if there are games where they are not currently the best options, there is no reason why they can't both get a fair share of starts and sub appearances. I am not suggesting they should both be starting in crucial games vs top of the table if there were better options at that time. At the end of the day, we are playing the long game, not one that starts and ends after the next game. |
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Post by lordb on Jul 13, 2024 14:05:07 GMT
Seems to me that Walters, Schumacher and all the coaches are on the same page re Sol
This season is the season for him to be considered a first team player
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Jul 13, 2024 15:31:49 GMT
I think I repeated myself a few times anyway to no avail so I’m going to bow out on the subject. I think throughout the season if Tezgel and Sidibe don’t see decent game time then many fans will be calling for it and questioning the head coach. The club will be doing the same, just with qualified people who set the parameters. To keep it relevant too, I like Sidibe, I don’t think he believes he’s as good as he can be. This next year could be massive if “the club” get it right Interesting last paragraph? Why do you think he doesn’t believe that? I think he’s tremendously level headed and at ease with that tbh. I definitely agree he’s level headed and will know he has quality. I’m thinking more possibly just missing that little bit of arrogance that many of the top players have, although I guess that’s tends to b the forwards more. You don’t have to be arrogant to be very very good of course. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2024 16:01:13 GMT
Seems to me that Walters, Schumacher and all the coaches are on the same page re Sol This season is the season for him to be considered a first team player Cue cruciate ligament damage versus Crewe…. |
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Post by a on Jul 13, 2024 22:04:16 GMT
So the club chooses if youngsters play? Not the coach? The delusion is at meltdown level 😂 ffs Yes. That should be what a sporting director makes sure happens. Why is it deluded that the club would want to protect a long term investment? If a coach isn’t playing the young players the club believes are good enough and can make them money then they have to step in. It just make sense. You are clueless, which we knew before but you have now confirmed |
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Post by a on Jul 13, 2024 22:06:36 GMT
You don’t think a coach looks beyond the end of the season? Kieran McKenna? Pep? Arteta? They don’t look ahead and plan for the future? Wtf are you actually talking about? Not really no. Why would they if they know they probably won’t be there? You’re taking about two of the best and not the normal there. Your average jobbing football league manager/head coach won’t give a shit. Outstanding. The coach doesn’t care about how they do? 🤣 |
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Post by a on Jul 13, 2024 22:10:33 GMT
If there was any doubt it is now confirmed
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 13, 2024 22:16:46 GMT
Not really no. Why would they if they know they probably won’t be there? You’re taking about two of the best and not the normal there. Your average jobbing football league manager/head coach won’t give a shit. Outstanding. The coach doesn’t care about how they do? 🤣 A manager/coach has no real interest in developing players over 2/3 or more years. Why would they when they know they more than likely won’t be at the club then? |
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Jul 14, 2024 7:11:06 GMT
Not really no. Why would they if they know they probably won’t be there? You’re taking about two of the best and not the normal there. Your average jobbing football league manager/head coach won’t give a shit. Outstanding. The coach doesn’t care about how they do? 🤣 How do you take it so out of context? The point is coaches only care about how the team does because they’ll keep getting contracts and keep getting paid. What a coach won’t care about as much is bringing in young players over slightly better and more experienced ones who may slightly impact results to ensure they develop and go up in value. Of course coaches care more about keeping their jobs than developing players. For your example, Guardiola has come out several times and explained that he got it wrong with Cole Palmer not giving him the game time he deserved because he always picked Mahrez and the like to ensure he got results all the time. Can we save any Bayern bashing for when he may actually say something controversial instead of just disagreeing with everything he says out of principal? What he is saying is just what happens in football at well run clubs!! Look at Brighton with De Zerbi. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2024 9:25:46 GMT
Outstanding. The coach doesn’t care about how they do? 🤣 How do you take it so out of context? The point is coaches only care about how the team does because they’ll keep getting contracts and keep getting paid. What a coach won’t care about as much is bringing in young players over slightly better and more experienced ones who may slightly impact results to ensure they develop and go up in value. Of course coaches care more about keeping their jobs than developing players. For your example, Guardiola has come out several times and explained that he got it wrong with Cole Palmer not giving him the game time he deserved because he always picked Mahrez and the like to ensure he got results all the time. Can we save any Bayern bashing for when he may actually say something controversial instead of just disagreeing with everything he says out of principal? What he is saying is just what happens in football at well run clubs!! Look at Brighton with De Zerbi. Agreed. It just makes sense that owners would want to see youth development in the Championship as it’s the most likely way that clubs can generate significant profit and stay within FFP. If Birmingham didn’t take a chance on Bellingham, they definitely would have been shafted by now. |
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Post by baconburger on Jul 17, 2024 8:05:53 GMT
Some proper weird arguments on here today. Here are a few pointers I would like to add: - The club has invested a ridiculous amount of money on the creation of an academy, staff, facilities and recruitment, which so far has brought about 2-3 really good prospects that have turned a healthy profit - The club decided to create a Technical Director position, which has transformed into a Sporting Director position Therefore, it would be criminal for the stakeholders not to be interested in protecting these investments and it would be within everyone's interest that the development of certain youth players is a high priority. The likes of Sidibe and Tezgel (if not loaned out) must get minutes to aid in their development. And it will be on SS to find appropriate opportunities to make this happen. There is no way JW will be dictating when and where, but for sure he will have handed SS some target numbers to work on. I think you’ve got it with “if not loaned out” there’s no way on this earth they’re going to get sufficient minutes staying here for the good of their development. They should be loaned out. The only argument against in Tezgel’s case is if we fail to bring in the forwards we require for the here and now. To do that deliberately to aid his route into the first team would be absurd. |
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