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Post by bertiestan on Jul 12, 2024 18:00:49 GMT
Then he gets dropped as they would be constantly evaluating it. It’s not really a difficult concept to understand is it. So we're basically at the point of 'Try to play the youngsters if you can' but the manager has the final say. That's where we've always been then? Pretty much yeah🤦🏼♂️😂🔴⚪️ |
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Post by thornestein on Jul 12, 2024 18:17:20 GMT
So we're basically at the point of 'Try to play the youngsters if you can' but the manager has the final say. That's where we've always been then? Pretty much yeah🤦🏼♂️😂🔴⚪️ and the way it should , a player should only be in the team if he’s the best available for that position on the day , not because he’s young and needs a pathway , if he’s good enough he’ll play , if he’s not then he won’t , simple really |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 12, 2024 18:18:36 GMT
Then he gets dropped as they would be constantly evaluating it. It’s not really a difficult concept to understand is it. So we're basically at the point of 'Try to play the youngsters if you can' but the manager has the final say. That's where we've always been then? No. Because the managers haven’t done that. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 12, 2024 18:19:53 GMT
Pretty much yeah🤦🏼♂️😂🔴⚪️ and the way it should , a player should only be in the team if he’s the best available for that position on the day , not because he’s young and needs a pathway , if he’s good enough he’ll play , if he’s not then he won’t , simple really Disagree. The club is bigger than what a head coach thinks. And the clubs needs come before the head coaches. The head coach won’t be thinking past the end of the season and the club has to make sure things are in place to get around that. Pathways are essential. |
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Post by thornestein on Jul 12, 2024 18:21:23 GMT
and the way it should , a player should only be in the team if he’s the best available for that position on the day , not because he’s young and needs a pathway , if he’s good enough he’ll play , if he’s not then he won’t , simple really Disagree. The club is bigger than what a head coach thinks. And the clubs needs come before the head coaches. The head coach won’t be thinking past the end of the season and the club has to make sure things are in place to get around that. Pathways are essential. disagree all you want , that’s what will happen and always as |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 12, 2024 18:23:41 GMT
Disagree. The club is bigger than what a head coach thinks. And the clubs needs come before the head coaches. The head coach won’t be thinking past the end of the season and the club has to make sure things are in place to get around that. Pathways are essential. disagree all you want , that’s what will happen and always as I don’t think it will. This model very much gives or should give the club that control. |
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Post by RF10 on Jul 12, 2024 18:28:25 GMT
Ultimately if the player, in this question Sol, is showing extremely positive signs they can be a huge talent then they should be played as much as possible even if he's not quite up to the level of the player competing for position.
You can't play youngsters if it's going to be detrimental to the team over sustained period.
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Post by Trouserdog on Jul 12, 2024 19:42:02 GMT
So we're basically at the point of 'Try to play the youngsters if you can' but the manager has the final say. That's where we've always been then? No. Because the managers haven’t done that. You're gaslighting again. |
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Post by a on Jul 12, 2024 20:36:02 GMT
and the way it should , a player should only be in the team if he’s the best available for that position on the day , not because he’s young and needs a pathway , if he’s good enough he’ll play , if he’s not then he won’t , simple really Disagree. The club is bigger than what a head coach thinks. And the clubs needs come before the head coaches. The head coach won’t be thinking past the end of the season and the club has to make sure things are in place to get around that. Pathways are essential. So the club chooses if youngsters play? Not the coach? The delusion is at meltdown level 😂 ffs |
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Post by a on Jul 12, 2024 20:38:28 GMT
Honestly Bayern is so deluded it has become even more of a joke than I thought it ever could 😂
He seriously believes he knows better than a qualified coach.
Too many years playing FM in the basement has broken his mind.
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Post by andystokey on Jul 12, 2024 20:46:53 GMT
Honestly Bayern is so deluded it has become even more of a joke than I thought it ever could 😂 He seriously believes he knows better than a qualified coach. Too many years playing FM in the basement has broken his mind. I don't think he has been playing with FM in a basement. FM is too busy monitoring thousands of social media feeds. |
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Jul 13, 2024 7:55:51 GMT
Yes he should. Because he’s not picking him for specific games. There should be a target that he plays x amount and we develop him with the best interests of the club at heart. Managers are short term appointments and will make short term decisions. The sporting director has to ensure that doesn’t happen. The Sporting Director should ensure the players are in place to make us a good team. That should be a combination of youth players that we’ve developed and players we’ve signed who will strengthen us and potentially make us money in future transfers, The Sporting Director should have no input on team selection unless asked by the manager. In which case I’d seriously wonder about the managers suitability. So you don’t think the person responsible for sporting matters and direction of the club shouldn’t be demanding the manager play young talents that will then increase their value and provide a leverage platform for attracting further youth prospects going forward? Bayern isn’t suggesting anything that doesn’t happen at every football club on the planet if they’re run properly. When Pulis was manager we didn’t do that and abandoned the whole idea, which was appalling mismanagement. The manager absolutely has to take direction on this from Walters because managers will always, understandably, make short term decisions and the club has to look long term. |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jul 13, 2024 8:05:33 GMT
More interesting for me is actually how good is he ,I know the coaches in the academy think he is very very good albeit i have yet to see on glimpses what he is truly brilliant at may be may be is just of those that is the modern day player tidy , mobile good passer which is absolutely fine and course he is still developing , Jayden i felt at chester looked absolutely outstanding in control of the ball , whatever we have two very very fine prospects best for years an credit to the academy .Both now seem physically able to cope too
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 13, 2024 9:35:26 GMT
The Sporting Director should ensure the players are in place to make us a good team. That should be a combination of youth players that we’ve developed and players we’ve signed who will strengthen us and potentially make us money in future transfers, The Sporting Director should have no input on team selection unless asked by the manager. In which case I’d seriously wonder about the managers suitability. So you don’t think the person responsible for sporting matters and direction of the club shouldn’t be demanding the manager play young talents that will then increase their value and provide a leverage platform for attracting further youth prospects going forward? Bayern isn’t suggesting anything that doesn’t happen at every football club on the planet if they’re run properly. When Pulis was manager we didn’t do that and abandoned the whole idea, which was appalling mismanagement. The manager absolutely has to take direction on this from Walters because managers will always, understandably, make short term decisions and the club has to look long term. Bayern has said that Walters should be telling the manager who he should play. Very different to encouraging the manager to play young players and asking him to integrate youth players into the first team squad. |
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Jul 13, 2024 9:40:52 GMT
So you don’t think the person responsible for sporting matters and direction of the club shouldn’t be demanding the manager play young talents that will then increase their value and provide a leverage platform for attracting further youth prospects going forward? Bayern isn’t suggesting anything that doesn’t happen at every football club on the planet if they’re run properly. When Pulis was manager we didn’t do that and abandoned the whole idea, which was appalling mismanagement. The manager absolutely has to take direction on this from Walters because managers will always, understandably, make short term decisions and the club has to look long term. Bayern has said that Walters should be telling the manager who he should play. Very different to encouraging the manager to play young players and asking him to integrate youth players into the first team squad. They amount to the same thing, Walters will be making it clear to SS that he absolutely has to find the space for Sidibe to get games and play this season. You seem to be taking what Bayern is saying as Walters gets Steve in his office and tells him that Sidibe must be in the starting line up against Coventry, or away to Oxford. He’s not saying that. Every club will have people around the manager who make decisions that include players who need to get game time or we’ll lose them. It’s not even slightly controversial. |
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Sol Sidibe
Jul 13, 2024 9:48:34 GMT
via mobile
a likes this
Post by foxysgloves on Jul 13, 2024 9:48:34 GMT
Bayern has said that Walters should be telling the manager who he should play. Very different to encouraging the manager to play young players and asking him to integrate youth players into the first team squad. They amount to the same thing, Walters will be making it clear to SS that he absolutely has to find the space for Sidibe to get games and play this season. You seem to be taking what Bayern is saying as Walters gets Steve in his office and tells him that Sidibe must be in the starting line up against Coventry, or away to Oxford. He’s not saying that. Every club will have people around the manager who make decisions that include players who need to get game time or we’ll lose them. It’s not even slightly controversial. This is what Bayern said: “The clubs interests are more important than that of the head coach. There should be a target there for how many games he plays and the head coach should make sure it happens. The club vision should be more important the head coaches who should be here no more than 2/3 years. You cannot expect them to think long term. So you should force that on them.” The head coach should make sure the target is met. He said that. Not that the coach should aspire to meet those targets. That he should meet them. He also says you should force it on the coach. All of which is bollocks. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2024 10:33:14 GMT
They amount to the same thing, Walters will be making it clear to SS that he absolutely has to find the space for Sidibe to get games and play this season. You seem to be taking what Bayern is saying as Walters gets Steve in his office and tells him that Sidibe must be in the starting line up against Coventry, or away to Oxford. He’s not saying that. Every club will have people around the manager who make decisions that include players who need to get game time or we’ll lose them. It’s not even slightly controversial. This is what Bayern said: “The clubs interests are more important than that of the head coach. There should be a target there for how many games he plays and the head coach should make sure it happens. The club vision should be more important the head coaches who should be here no more than 2/3 years. You cannot expect them to think long term. So you should force that on them.” The head coach should make sure the target is met. He said that. Not that the coach should aspire to meet those targets. That he should meet them. He also says you should force it on the coach. All of which is bollocks. Some of that is true though. You absolutely can't force a manager to pick players, that's unrealistic but the 2/3 year lifecycle is true. Managers these days generally don't last that long so you can't expect them to think long term hence why a club vision is paramount. It's why your manager choice is so important, especially at a club like ours that has invested so much money into the Academy and it's infrastructure. You employ a manager that is at least sympathetic to youth development (MON was the best we've had) and not front of house idiots like Rowett and Alex Neil that will happily spend money, big money on experience rather than give youth players more of a chance. Time will tell where Schumacher is on that scale. Last season with the trouble we were in can't be the yardstick. |
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Post by a on Jul 13, 2024 10:38:52 GMT
The conversation should be the Techincal Director stating that he wants youth integrating into the team. That makes sense. The head coach can make a call on their suitability for this level as he sees them in training and is the coach. If the coach then decides they need a loan and won’t be good enough to feature then the technical director has to trust the coach and get them a loan.
That’s as simple as it should be…
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Jul 13, 2024 12:06:03 GMT
They amount to the same thing, Walters will be making it clear to SS that he absolutely has to find the space for Sidibe to get games and play this season. You seem to be taking what Bayern is saying as Walters gets Steve in his office and tells him that Sidibe must be in the starting line up against Coventry, or away to Oxford. He’s not saying that. Every club will have people around the manager who make decisions that include players who need to get game time or we’ll lose them. It’s not even slightly controversial. This is what Bayern said: “The clubs interests are more important than that of the head coach. There should be a target there for how many games he plays and the head coach should make sure it happens. The club vision should be more important the head coaches who should be here no more than 2/3 years. You cannot expect them to think long term. So you should force that on them.” The head coach should make sure the target is met. He said that. Not that the coach should aspire to meet those targets. That he should meet them. He also says you should force it on the coach. All of which is bollocks. Ok so just pedantry is all we’re arguing over then. The coach should endeavour to meet the requirements set by the club, yes. If he doesn’t then he will be replaced as with him being the head coach the direction of the club is the most important thing. Fans have been begging for that for years and now we get it, just because Bayern posts all of a sudden it’s mental? The coach should be forced to play young players, if they are deemed worthy of doing so, as Sidibe is. For the betterment of the club long term, over the short term results nature. It’s so straight forward and standard I can’t believe it’s even a talking point. |
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Jul 13, 2024 12:07:46 GMT
Big difference between head coaches and managers…
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 13, 2024 12:15:28 GMT
This is what Bayern said: “The clubs interests are more important than that of the head coach. There should be a target there for how many games he plays and the head coach should make sure it happens. The club vision should be more important the head coaches who should be here no more than 2/3 years. You cannot expect them to think long term. So you should force that on them.” The head coach should make sure the target is met. He said that. Not that the coach should aspire to meet those targets. That he should meet them. He also says you should force it on the coach. All of which is bollocks. Some of that is true though. You absolutely can't force a manager to pick players, that's unrealistic but the 2/3 year lifecycle is true. Managers these days generally don't last that long so you can't expect them to think long term hence why a club vision is paramount. It's why your manager choice is so important, especially at a club like ours that has invested so much money into the Academy and it's infrastructure. You employ a manager that is at least sympathetic to youth development (MON was the best we've had) and not front of house idiots like Rowett and Alex Neil that will happily spend money, big money on experience rather than give youth players more of a chance. Time will tell where Schumacher is on that scale. Last season with the trouble we were in can't be the yardstick. I completely agree that our young players need a pathway and our head coach / manager should be encouraged to introduce them whenever possible. I also think that would have been a conversation had at the interview stage. Schumacher appears keen to use young players and I trust him to decide when Sol and other youngsters are ready to feature regularly. |
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 13, 2024 12:16:36 GMT
Big difference between head coaches and managers… Explain it please because I’m genuinely not sure. Either way though I would assume a manager or head coach is ultimately responsible for selecting the team. Or am I wrong? |
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 13, 2024 12:17:43 GMT
This is what Bayern said: “The clubs interests are more important than that of the head coach. There should be a target there for how many games he plays and the head coach should make sure it happens. The club vision should be more important the head coaches who should be here no more than 2/3 years. You cannot expect them to think long term. So you should force that on them.” The head coach should make sure the target is met. He said that. Not that the coach should aspire to meet those targets. That he should meet them. He also says you should force it on the coach. All of which is bollocks. Ok so just pedantry is all we’re arguing over then. The coach should endeavour to meet the requirements set by the club, yes. If he doesn’t then he will be replaced as with him being the head coach the direction of the club is the most important thing. Fans have been begging for that for years and now we get it, just because Bayern posts all of a sudden it’s mental? The coach should be forced to play young players, if they are deemed worthy of doing so, as Sidibe is. For the betterment of the club long term, over the short term results nature. It’s so straight forward and standard I can’t believe it’s even a talking point. I think the problem is that you’ve butted in and have decided to try and argue Bayern’s point without actually looking at what he’s said. |
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 13, 2024 12:18:59 GMT
This is what Bayern said: “The clubs interests are more important than that of the head coach. There should be a target there for how many games he plays and the head coach should make sure it happens. The club vision should be more important the head coaches who should be here no more than 2/3 years. You cannot expect them to think long term. So you should force that on them.” The head coach should make sure the target is met. He said that. Not that the coach should aspire to meet those targets. That he should meet them. He also says you should force it on the coach. All of which is bollocks. Ok so just pedantry is all we’re arguing over then. The coach should endeavour to meet the requirements set by the club, yes. If he doesn’t then he will be replaced as with him being the head coach the direction of the club is the most important thing. Fans have been begging for that for years and now we get it, just because Bayern posts all of a sudden it’s mental? The coach should be forced to play young players, if they are deemed worthy of doing so, as Sidibe is. For the betterment of the club long term, over the short term results nature. It’s so straight forward and standard I can’t believe it’s even a talking point. A coach should be ‘forced’ to play a player??? In what world is that a good way to run a football club? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 13, 2024 12:19:15 GMT
Disagree. The club is bigger than what a head coach thinks. And the clubs needs come before the head coaches. The head coach won’t be thinking past the end of the season and the club has to make sure things are in place to get around that. Pathways are essential. So the club chooses if youngsters play? Not the coach? The delusion is at meltdown level 😂 ffs Yes. That should be what a sporting director makes sure happens. Why is it deluded that the club would want to protect a long term investment? If a coach isn’t playing the young players the club believes are good enough and can make them money then they have to step in. It just make sense. |
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 13, 2024 12:20:55 GMT
The conversation should be the Techincal Director stating that he wants youth integrating into the team. That makes sense. The head coach can make a call on their suitability for this level as he sees them in training and is the coach. If the coach then decides they need a loan and won’t be good enough to feature then the technical director has to trust the coach and get them a loan. That’s as simple as it should be… Exactly. |
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 13, 2024 12:22:01 GMT
So the club chooses if youngsters play? Not the coach? The delusion is at meltdown level 😂 ffs Yes. That should be what a sporting director makes sure happens. Why is it deluded that the club would want to protect a long term investment? If a coach isn’t playing the young players the club believes are good enough and can make them money then they have to step in. It just make sense. “The club believes are good enough “ What the fuck does that even mean??!! Who are “the club”? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 13, 2024 12:24:44 GMT
Ok so just pedantry is all we’re arguing over then. The coach should endeavour to meet the requirements set by the club, yes. If he doesn’t then he will be replaced as with him being the head coach the direction of the club is the most important thing. Fans have been begging for that for years and now we get it, just because Bayern posts all of a sudden it’s mental? The coach should be forced to play young players, if they are deemed worthy of doing so, as Sidibe is. For the betterment of the club long term, over the short term results nature. It’s so straight forward and standard I can’t believe it’s even a talking point. I think the problem is that you’ve butted in and have decided to try and argue Bayern’s point without actually looking at what he’s said. 🤣what hes said is spot on and he’s just agreeing with me. A head coach will be thinking short term and the club have to negate that. If plauers like Sidibe and Tezgel can’t get a look in then there should be decisions to be made. It’s not black and white and they might be in bad form etc and they shouldn’t be picked if they are. But it is absolutely something that should be above the head coach. You have to protect your assets. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 13, 2024 12:25:35 GMT
Yes. That should be what a sporting director makes sure happens. Why is it deluded that the club would want to protect a long term investment? If a coach isn’t playing the young players the club believes are good enough and can make them money then they have to step in. It just make sense. “The club believes are good enough “ What the fuck does that even mean??!! Who are “the club”? The sporting and academy directors. Long term appointments who will or should have the best interests of the club at heart. Something a head coach won’t. |
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Post by thornestein on Jul 13, 2024 12:25:52 GMT
Big difference between head coaches and managers… Explain it please because I’m genuinely not sure. Either way though I would assume a manager or head coach is ultimately responsible for selecting the team. Or am I wrong? it’s simple isn’t it ? a head coach coaches the players a manager manages the club |
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