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Post by brinsleymaclagan on Jul 6, 2023 21:05:31 GMT
It was a well articulated piece that should rightly make us feel hypocrites. South Africa, Northern Ireland, Ukraine and Palestine we need international equivalence. Absolutely! Every country could make up a word that means “criticism of our country”, then if anyone criticises any of your policies, you cry “you can’t say that, it’s anti-blah blah!” |
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Post by wannabee on Jul 6, 2023 22:18:44 GMT
We must never underestimate the power of Zionists. They have more legs than a centipede and have infiltrated many societies with the attempt to silence any criticism. OS. OS, I have to say this.. I’m sure it was not your intention but this language is the stuff of classic, out-of-the box antisemitic tropes about shadowy figures having tentacles everywhere controlling us all. From the aforementioned ihrc definition of antisemitism, which perhaps you contest, I don’t know: “Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.” I appreciate you said “Zionists” not Jews and you want to make that distinction, but I think at the very least it still perpetuates really harmful, millennia-old stereotypes. Lots of respect for you as a poster and I’m sure you wouldn’t consider yourself to have a racist bone in your body but I had to say something because I found the way you put that very jarring to say the least. You speak as if the IHRA definition is universally accepted, it isn't. Israel's biggest supporter US hasn't accepted it, much to the chagrin of AIPAC despite intense lobbying He'll one of the lead drafters of the IHRA Definition Ken Stern rejects it specifically because it limits the legitimate criticism of Zionists OdStokie and I and others reject Zionists and their Apartheid and Etnic Cleansing Policies as do many Jews within and outside Israel There is a clear divide between Zionists and Jews which you are failing to grasp |
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Israel
Jul 6, 2023 23:04:16 GMT
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Post by Gawa on Jul 6, 2023 23:04:16 GMT
OS, I have to say this.. I’m sure it was not your intention but this language is the stuff of classic, out-of-the box antisemitic tropes about shadowy figures having tentacles everywhere controlling us all. From the aforementioned ihrc definition of antisemitism, which perhaps you contest, I don’t know: “Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.” I appreciate you said “Zionists” not Jews and you want to make that distinction, but I think at the very least it still perpetuates really harmful, millennia-old stereotypes. Lots of respect for you as a poster and I’m sure you wouldn’t consider yourself to have a racist bone in your body but I had to say something because I found the way you put that very jarring to say the least. You speak as if the IHRA definition is universally accepted, it isn't. Israel's biggest supporter US hasn't accepted it, much to the chagrin of AIPAC despite intense lobbying He'll one of the lead drafters of the IHRA Definition Ken Stern rejects it specifically because it limits the legitimate criticism of Zionists OdStokie and I and others reject Zionists and their Apartheid and Etnic Cleansing Policies as do many Jews within and outside Israel There is a clear divide between Zionists and Jews which you are failing to grasp Tbf mate if you read potterlogs subsequent posts I think you can see he changes his stance. Alot of this stuff isn't well reported so unless you actively go out of your way to read it, you'll maybe not be aware of it. I know I wasn't. |
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Israel
Jul 6, 2023 23:54:47 GMT
Post by wannabee on Jul 6, 2023 23:54:47 GMT
You speak as if the IHRA definition is universally accepted, it isn't. Israel's biggest supporter US hasn't accepted it, much to the chagrin of AIPAC despite intense lobbying He'll one of the lead drafters of the IHRA Definition Ken Stern rejects it specifically because it limits the legitimate criticism of Zionists OdStokie and I and others reject Zionists and their Apartheid and Etnic Cleansing Policies as do many Jews within and outside Israel There is a clear divide between Zionists and Jews which you are failing to grasp Tbf mate if you read potterlogs subsequent posts I think you can see he changes his stance. Alot of this stuff isn't well reported so unless you actively go out of your way to read it, you'll maybe not be aware of it. I know I wasn't. With respect I completely disagree with you but should PotterLog point out the error of my ways, I'll happily withdraw my comments His subsequent posts doubled down that the IHRA definition was the Holy Grail which it clearly isn't In a follow up and last post he cautioned against specific language regarding Zionists as it might conjure up ancient tropes. This is clearly nonsense and it harks back to trying to conflate all Jews as Zionists which is clearly untrue but which Zionists like to put abroad and thereby accuse people of being antisemitic If people relied upon any subject as to what is reported they would be very under informed In any case let's see what PotterLog wishes to say if anything |
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Israel
Jul 7, 2023 0:20:29 GMT
Post by PotterLog on Jul 7, 2023 0:20:29 GMT
Tbf mate if you read potterlogs subsequent posts I think you can see he changes his stance. Alot of this stuff isn't well reported so unless you actively go out of your way to read it, you'll maybe not be aware of it. I know I wasn't. With respect I completely disagree with you but should PotterLog point out the error of my ways, I'll happily withdraw my comments His subsequent posts doubled down that the IHRA definition was the Holy Grail which it clearly isn't In a follow up and last post he cautioned against specific language regarding Zionists as it might conjure up ancient tropes. This is clearly nonsense and it harks back to trying to conflate all Jews as Zionists which is clearly untrue but which Zionists like to put abroad and thereby accuse people of being antisemitic If people relied upon any subject as to what is reported they would be very under informed In any case let's see what PotterLog wishes to say if anything Where have I treated it as "the Holy grail"? I've said I find it mainly clear and considered, and that assertions that it doesn't permit criticism of Israel are demonstrably inaccurate. I've been careful to caveat that with acknowledgments that others may disagree and concerns that it might be being misused, including in my response to OS. I think anti-Zionism and anti-Israel stances are often rooted in or informed by deeper antisemitism, and if they aren't, it's advisable to take extreme care not to use language which invokes/evokes/perpetuates old stereotypes and prejudices about Jews. As such I strongly disagree with your suggestion that the conjuring up of ancient tropes is "clearly nonsense". I don't know what Gawa means about changing my stance, I don't think I've done that. |
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Post by wannabee on Jul 7, 2023 2:59:52 GMT
With respect I completely disagree with you but should PotterLog point out the error of my ways, I'll happily withdraw my comments His subsequent posts doubled down that the IHRA definition was the Holy Grail which it clearly isn't In a follow up and last post he cautioned against specific language regarding Zionists as it might conjure up ancient tropes. This is clearly nonsense and it harks back to trying to conflate all Jews as Zionists which is clearly untrue but which Zionists like to put abroad and thereby accuse people of being antisemitic If people relied upon any subject as to what is reported they would be very under informed In any case let's see what PotterLog wishes to say if anything Where have I treated it as "the Holy grail"? I've said I find it mainly clear and considered, and that assertions that it doesn't permit criticism of Israel are demonstrably inaccurate. I've been careful to caveat that with acknowledgments that others may disagree and concerns that it might be being misused, including in my response to OS. I think anti-Zionism and anti-Israel stances are often rooted in or informed by deeper antisemitism, and if they aren't, it's advisable to take extreme care not to use language which invokes/evokes/perpetuates old stereotypes and prejudices about Jews. As such I strongly disagree with your suggestion that the conjuring up of ancient tropes is "clearly nonsense". I don't know what Gawa means about changing my stance, I don't think I've done that. I agree you haven't changed your stance which is why I respectfully disagreed with GAWA's post To address your second para first you are logically, in your opinion, conflating anti-Zionism as being synonymous with being anti-Israel, it's not, and only Zionists hold that view. It is arrogant, objectionable and highly presumptuous to engage in amateur psychobabble to determine why people hold an alternative view to yourself. Your views are based on the "eternalist" theory and that Israel is the "collective jew" which is both preposterous and debunked by most logical thinking people On your first para. The "get out clause" in the IHRA definition which you used in your opening post is "criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic,” By definition in contrast the opposite to this means whatever excesses the Israeli Government may undertake as long as there is a worse Regime then anyone that criticises Israel is being antisemitic under the IHRA definition. Zionists have consistently and repeatedly used this to shut down opposition to Israel's practices. Even Ken Stern the lead author of the definition objected to this and disassociated himself from it. |
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 7, 2023 8:19:34 GMT
It is arrogant, objectionable and highly presumptuous to engage in amateur psychobabble to determine why people hold an alternative view to yourself. Your views are based on the "eternalist" theory and that Israel is the "collective jew" which is both preposterous and debunked by most logical thinking people I find it very difficult to believe you typed those two sentences one after the other and kept a straight face 😅 |
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Israel
Jul 7, 2023 8:21:49 GMT
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 7, 2023 8:21:49 GMT
OS, I have to say this.. I’m sure it was not your intention but this language is the stuff of classic, out-of-the box antisemitic tropes about shadowy figures having tentacles everywhere controlling us all. From the aforementioned ihrc definition of antisemitism, which perhaps you contest, I don’t know: “Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.” I appreciate you said “Zionists” not Jews and you want to make that distinction, but I think at the very least it still perpetuates really harmful, millennia-old stereotypes. Lots of respect for you as a poster and I’m sure you wouldn’t consider yourself to have a racist bone in your body but I had to say something because I found the way you put that very jarring to say the least. You speak as if the IHRA definition is universally accepted, it isn't. Israel's biggest supporter US hasn't accepted it, much to the chagrin of AIPAC despite intense lobbying He'll one of the lead drafters of the IHRA Definition Ken Stern rejects it specifically because it limits the legitimate criticism of Zionists OdStokie and I and others reject Zionists and their Apartheid and Etnic Cleansing Policies as do many Jews within and outside Israel There is a clear divide between Zionists and Jews which you are failing to grasp This. |
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Post by Eggybread on Jul 7, 2023 8:28:57 GMT
Zionists are just out and out racists.And an extreme form of it too.Most Jewish people like most people even in this country(  ) are not. |
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Post by Foster on Jul 7, 2023 8:30:58 GMT
Thread starts off about the Jenin assault and as usual quickly descends into the usual tit for tat word play bollocks that deflects from the real issue, which is the persecution of the Palestinians and illegal land grabs.
Where's bullshit man when you need him.
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Israel
Jul 7, 2023 10:12:40 GMT
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Post by yeswilko on Jul 7, 2023 10:12:40 GMT
Israel is a racist state.
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Israel
Jul 7, 2023 13:01:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2023 13:01:57 GMT
Zionists are just out and out racists.And an extreme form of it too.Most Jewish people like most people even in this country( ) are not. I’m not even an anti-Zionist. I’m anti-Netanyahu and his brand of politics. It has less to do with keeping Israel safe and more to do with concentrating power at the top and systematically narrowing the rights of others, including other Jewish people: www.atlantajewishtimes.com/change-in-israels-law-of-return-is-proposed-again/amp/ |
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Post by OldStokie on Jul 7, 2023 14:03:34 GMT
We must never underestimate the power of Zionists. They have more legs than a centipede and have infiltrated many societies with the attempt to silence any criticism. OS. OS, I have to say this.. I’m sure it was not your intention but this language is the stuff of classic, out-of-the box antisemitic tropes about shadowy figures having tentacles everywhere controlling us all. From the aforementioned ihrc definition of antisemitism, which perhaps you contest, I don’t know:“Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.” I appreciate you said “Zionists” not Jews and you want to make that distinction, but I think at the very least it still perpetuates really harmful, millennia-old stereotypes. Lots of respect for you as a poster and I’m sure you wouldn’t consider yourself to have a racist bone in your body but I had to say something because I found the way you put that very jarring to say the least. Potterlog, I don't take offence at your comments. You have every right to hold an opinion, as do I. But I do contest the definition IHRC has of antisemitism. It's doing exactly as your comments imply... conflating the differences between Zionists and Jews. I'm not an ideologue: I'm a pragmatist and a realist. I've no intention of going into complexities and realities of the human race since it crawled out of the oceans; I simply don't have the time and I'm sure I'd offend many people with my realistic views. The truth of reality is that culturally and religiously, people are different, and most times, those differences negate peaceful co-existence. And from culture and religion, there are the extremists who cause most of the problems. The state of Israel at the moment is in the hands of extremists; the Zionists. Also, to deny that the Zionists are one of the most powerful lobbies in the western world shows a high degree of ignorance. Those are the tentacles of which I speak about. Could anyone deny that colonialism and imposed Christianity have not changed the world? Zionism is trying to do the same thing. They're winning by negating free speech and any sort of criticism, so much so that we dare not draw realities into a debate. OS. |
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Post by wannabee on Jul 7, 2023 14:07:26 GMT
Top Post 👍
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Israel
Sept 4, 2023 19:13:20 GMT
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Post by slippyblunger on Sept 4, 2023 19:13:20 GMT
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Israel
Sept 4, 2023 22:25:49 GMT
Post by wannabee on Sept 4, 2023 22:25:49 GMT
Netanyahu can only dream of the power Afwerki weilds
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 7, 2023 8:39:32 GMT
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Israel
Oct 7, 2023 8:05:09 GMT
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 7, 2023 8:05:09 GMT
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Israel
Oct 7, 2023 8:08:04 GMT
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knype likes this
Post by scfcno1fan on Oct 7, 2023 8:08:04 GMT
Have Hamas pressed the self destruct button?
Israel now on ‘war readiness’.
It just feels like escalation of conflict after conflict at the moment and it won’t be long until something happens to trigger a full scale global conflict.
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 7, 2023 8:37:10 GMT
Very sad times. RIP to those who’ve lost their lives.
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Israel
Oct 7, 2023 8:57:32 GMT
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 7, 2023 8:57:32 GMT
Have Hamas pressed the self destruct button? Israel now on ‘war readiness’. It just feels like escalation of conflict after conflict at the moment and it won’t be long until something happens to trigger a full scale global conflict. Seen videos of captured IDF vehicles being driven by Palestinians through Gaza with reports of captured IDF troops. |
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Israel
Oct 7, 2023 10:53:34 GMT
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Post by scfcno1fan on Oct 7, 2023 10:53:34 GMT
Iran backing Palestine (to be expected).
Think things could go very badly for all concerned here.
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Israel
Oct 7, 2023 10:54:14 GMT
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Post by knype on Oct 7, 2023 10:54:14 GMT
Seen videos of Israeli women being beaten and paraded around.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2023 11:07:48 GMT
Palestine really have no chance. I feel sorry for the people of Israel who live near Gaza and I feel worse for the Palestinian’s who are viewed as trash in their own homeland. A complete mess from the UN that has never been fixed. One that has been made ever worse by the Apartheid of Netanyahu’s government. I’m curious as to how Al Jazeera will cover it. I’ll likely follow it on there and the BBC/CNN to get both sides of the story. Always liked Al-Jazeera for a more Asia centered viewpoint. The opinion pieces are always hard left but the articles typically stay closer to the center. |
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Israel
Oct 7, 2023 11:14:36 GMT
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Post by scfcno1fan on Oct 7, 2023 11:14:36 GMT
Palestine really have no chance. I feel sorry for the people of Israel who live near Gaza and I feel worse for the Palestinian’s who are viewed as trash in their own homeland. A complete mess from the UN that has never been fixed. One that has been made ever worse by the Apartheid of Netanyahu’s government. They have next to no chance, unless someone else gets involved. Unless they think they are getting assistance, they are signing their own slaughter. |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 7, 2023 11:17:54 GMT
Palestine really have no chance. I feel sorry for the people of Israel who live near Gaza and I feel worse for the Palestinian’s who are viewed as trash in their own homeland. A complete mess from the UN that has never been fixed. One that has been made ever worse by the Apartheid of Netanyahu’s government. They have next to no chance, unless someone else gets involved. Unless they think they are getting assistance, they are signing their own slaughter. Seeing the images on twitter they seem to have signed their own death warrants. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2023 11:21:02 GMT
Palestine really have no chance. I feel sorry for the people of Israel who live near Gaza and I feel worse for the Palestinian’s who are viewed as trash in their own homeland. A complete mess from the UN that has never been fixed. One that has been made ever worse by the Apartheid of Netanyahu’s government. They have next to no chance, unless someone else gets involved. Unless they think they are getting assistance, they are signing their own slaughter. I wonder if they are hoping that NATO are all too tied up with Ukraine and believe that Iran may get involved. |
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Israel
Oct 7, 2023 11:24:46 GMT
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Post by scfcno1fan on Oct 7, 2023 11:24:46 GMT
They have next to no chance, unless someone else gets involved. Unless they think they are getting assistance, they are signing their own slaughter. I wonder if they are hoping that NATO are all too tied up with Ukraine and believe that Iran may get involved. That’s my thought…. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Oct 7, 2023 11:31:16 GMT
They have next to no chance, unless someone else gets involved. Unless they think they are getting assistance, they are signing their own slaughter. Seeing the images on twitter they seem to have signed their own death warrants. Maybe when you have been systematically oppressed for decades Left with no hope no future Death no longer holds fear |
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Israel
Oct 7, 2023 11:32:36 GMT
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 7, 2023 11:32:36 GMT
Seeing the images on twitter they seem to have signed their own death warrants. Maybe when you have been systematically oppressed for decades Left with no hope no future Death no longer holds fear Clearly. And that runs both ways. |
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) are not.
