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Post by Gawa on Jul 5, 2023 11:34:33 GMT
See their military have evaded a refugee camp to commit more senseless murders. Quite ironic if you ask me.
Sorry for being antisemitic. Because any criticism of Israel is apparently antisemitism.
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Post by knype on Jul 5, 2023 11:39:06 GMT
See their military have evaded a refugee camp to commit more senseless murders. Quite ironic if you ask me. Sorry for being antisemitic. Because any criticism of Israel is apparently antisemitism. You can tell you're a Labour supporter mate  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2023 11:46:45 GMT
See their military have evaded a refugee camp to commit more senseless murders. Quite ironic if you ask me. Sorry for being antisemitic. Because any criticism of Israel is apparently antisemitism. While the US/UK and EU pump so much money into Israel for “regional stability”, they’ll never change. Especially given that Netanyahu is desperate to destroy “democracy” to limit his own persecution. |
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Post by Gawa on Jul 5, 2023 12:07:22 GMT
See their military have evaded a refugee camp to commit more senseless murders. Quite ironic if you ask me. Sorry for being antisemitic. Because any criticism of Israel is apparently antisemitism. You can tell you're a Labour supporter mate Not a supporter of Starmers labour  Politically homeless |
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 5, 2023 12:20:53 GMT
Whenever I hear his name I always have to say it in the way Stephen Fry describes Billy Connolly saying it when he rang him up randomly one night. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 5, 2023 12:33:11 GMT
See their military have evaded a refugee camp to commit more senseless murders. Quite ironic if you ask me. Sorry for being antisemitic. Because any criticism of Israel is apparently antisemitism. You can tell you're a Labour supporter mate Absolute bollocks All you have to be is a decent human being To realise that the current regime in Israel are land grabbing mass murdering genocidal fuck heads Regardless of one’s political views |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2023 12:35:31 GMT
You can tell you're a Labour supporter mate Absolute bollocks All you have to be is a decent human being To realise that the current regime in Israel are land grabbing mass murdering genocidal fuck heads Regardless of one’s political views I think it was more of a light-hearted quip on the antisemitism scandal in the Labour Party than anything else to be fair. |
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Post by OldStokie on Jul 5, 2023 13:26:07 GMT
See their military have evaded a refugee camp to commit more senseless murders. Quite ironic if you ask me. Sorry for being antisemitic. Because any criticism of Israel is apparently antisemitism. You're not being anti-Semitic... you're being anti Zionist. The Zionists will stop at nothing until they've taken over both the West Bank and Gaza Strip to create one Zionist nation. What's happened to the Palestinians since idiots signed over control of Palestine in 1948 is nothing short of genocide. OS. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 5, 2023 13:28:38 GMT
I watched some of the commons debate on the anti-Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Bill and honestly the hypocrisy over the state of Israel is sickening. Labour Friends of Israel, Conservative Friends of Israel all ignoring the land grab in Gaza and the West Bank, the restriction of movement of civilian Palestinians and pussy footing round the hard line right wing government we now see in place. Ukranians are freedom fighters, Palestinians are terrorists.
And anyone who shouts up about it is an anti-Semite, it would be laughable it wasn't so tragic for all those people involved (including Israeli civilians caught in the cross fire of course).
Gary Lineker compares language used by the Nazis and there's a national outcry, yet MP's can just spout shit like this and there's silence........
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Israel
Jul 5, 2023 14:04:27 GMT
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Post by Gawa on Jul 5, 2023 14:04:27 GMT
See their military have evaded a refugee camp to commit more senseless murders. Quite ironic if you ask me. Sorry for being antisemitic. Because any criticism of Israel is apparently antisemitism. You're not being anti-Semitic... you're being anti Zionist. The Zionists will stop at nothing until they've taken over both the West Bank and Gaza Strip to create one Zionist nation. What's happened to the Palestinians since idiots signed over control of Palestine in 1948 is nothing short of genocide. OS. Nope not according to the IHRA definition which the UK and USA now use. Criticism of Israel is antisemitic according to that. www.theguardian.com/news/2023/apr/24/un-ihra-antisemitism-definition-israel-criticism |
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Post by Gawa on Jul 5, 2023 14:14:17 GMT
I watched some of the commons debate on the anti-Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Bill and honestly the hypocrisy over the state of Israel is sickening. Labour Friends of Israel, Conservative Friends of Israel all ignoring the land grab in Gaza and the West Bank, the restriction of movement of civilian Palestinians and pussy footing round the hard line right wing government we now see in place. Ukranians are freedom fighters, Palestinians are terrorists. And anyone who shouts up about it is an anti-Semite, it would be laughable it wasn't so tragic for all those people involved (including Israeli civilians caught in the cross fire of course). Gary Lineker compares language used by the Nazis and there's a national outcry, yet MP's can just spout shit like this and there's silence........ Jewish voice for labour are the only credible Jewish group assosciated with labour imo. Members of this group are 35x more likely to be evicted from labour under Starmer though. Because all these Jewish people are antisemetic too apparently due to the definition which the uk uses where anyone criticising israel is also antisemetic www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-62319342Scum. |
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Post by Gawa on Jul 5, 2023 14:18:04 GMT
You can tell you're a Labour supporter mate Absolute bollocks All you have to be is a decent human being To realise that the current regime in Israel are land grabbing mass murdering genocidal fuck heads Regardless of one’s political views I do think knype was probably just making a joke towards me as he knows I'm a corbyn fan. Me and knype are quite different on our politics but I do think that was just a tongue in cheek comment  |
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Post by OldStokie on Jul 5, 2023 18:47:46 GMT
You're not being anti-Semitic... you're being anti Zionist. The Zionists will stop at nothing until they've taken over both the West Bank and Gaza Strip to create one Zionist nation. What's happened to the Palestinians since idiots signed over control of Palestine in 1948 is nothing short of genocide. OS. Nope not according to the IHRA definition which the UK and USA now use. Criticism of Israel is antisemitic according to that. www.theguardian.com/news/2023/apr/24/un-ihra-antisemitism-definition-israel-criticismWe must never underestimate the power of Zionists. They have more legs than a centipede and have infiltrated many societies with the attempt to silence any criticism. OS. |
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Israel
Jul 5, 2023 18:50:41 GMT
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Gawa likes this
Post by thehartshillbadger on Jul 5, 2023 18:50:41 GMT
Is this the thread to say they just parked half a dozen buses against our boys in the U21 Euros semi? Shambles
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 5, 2023 19:48:23 GMT
You're not being anti-Semitic... you're being anti Zionist. The Zionists will stop at nothing until they've taken over both the West Bank and Gaza Strip to create one Zionist nation. What's happened to the Palestinians since idiots signed over control of Palestine in 1948 is nothing short of genocide. OS. Nope not according to the IHRA definition which the UK and USA now use. Criticism of Israel is antisemitic according to that. www.theguardian.com/news/2023/apr/24/un-ihra-antisemitism-definition-israel-criticismNo it isn’t. The definition states “criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic,” but makes mention of certain types of targeting and double standards applied towards Israel that could exemplify antisemitism - something which is subtle but tangible, and worthy of noting and keeping a keen eye out for where this type of prejudice is concerned. |
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Post by wannabee on Jul 5, 2023 20:08:32 GMT
See their military have evaded a refugee camp to commit more senseless murders. Quite ironic if you ask me. Sorry for being antisemitic. Because any criticism of Israel is apparently antisemitism. I agree with OldStokie it is the Zionists both Inside and Outside Israel that are driving this hard line provocation There are many Jews again Inside and Outside Israel who do not agree with the Netanyahu Regime which he is pursuing not only to keep himself out of Gaol The shameful vote in HoC is hardly surprising given the Zionist reach and any dissenter is attacked like by a Pack of Dogs Those opposing BDS have conveniently short memories of how it was ultimately effective against another Apartheid Regime South Africa it was. Let's be honest about the Elephant in the Room. While Israel is under the Protectorate of World Policeman US under the influence of the Jewish Lobby (now saying THAT is apparently antisemitic) Since 2015 there have been 15 UN General Assembly Resolutions against Israel, all ignored, there have been 13 against all other Countries in the World including 6 against Russia The Two State solution doesn't work, not least because of a dirty great big Wall cutting off Palestine. The Oslo Accord isn't fit for purpose Moving forward it needs to be a shared Secular space with equal rights, including the refugees, for all. You have a unique insight into this given where you reside. At present a solution seems far away and there are very entrenched views on both sides with Hamas being supported by Iran equally determined to obliterate the State of Israel |
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Israel
Jul 5, 2023 20:09:07 GMT
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Foster likes this
Post by PotterLog on Jul 5, 2023 20:09:07 GMT
We must never underestimate the power of Zionists. They have more legs than a centipede and have infiltrated many societies with the attempt to silence any criticism. OS. OS, I have to say this.. I’m sure it was not your intention but this language is the stuff of classic, out-of-the box antisemitic tropes about shadowy figures having tentacles everywhere controlling us all. From the aforementioned ihrc definition of antisemitism, which perhaps you contest, I don’t know: “Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.” I appreciate you said “Zionists” not Jews and you want to make that distinction, but I think at the very least it still perpetuates really harmful, millennia-old stereotypes. Lots of respect for you as a poster and I’m sure you wouldn’t consider yourself to have a racist bone in your body but I had to say something because I found the way you put that very jarring to say the least. |
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Israel
Jul 5, 2023 20:14:43 GMT
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Post by Gawa on Jul 5, 2023 20:14:43 GMT
No it isn’t. The definition states “criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic,” but makes mention of certain types of targeting and double standards applied towards Israel that could exemplify antisemitism - something which is subtle but tangible, and worthy of noting and keeping a keen eye out for where this type of prejudice is concerned. Did you read the article at all? |
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Israel
Jul 5, 2023 20:28:00 GMT
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 5, 2023 20:28:00 GMT
No it isn’t. The definition states “criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic,” but makes mention of certain types of targeting and double standards applied towards Israel that could exemplify antisemitism - something which is subtle but tangible, and worthy of noting and keeping a keen eye out for where this type of prejudice is concerned. Did you read the article at all? What’s the article got to do with it? It’s a series of quotes from people claiming the definition is being misused, and? |
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Post by andystokey on Jul 5, 2023 20:37:23 GMT
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Israel
Jul 5, 2023 20:39:10 GMT
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Post by Gawa on Jul 5, 2023 20:39:10 GMT
No it isn’t. The definition states “criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic,” but makes mention of certain types of targeting and double standards applied towards Israel that could exemplify antisemitism - something which is subtle but tangible, and worthy of noting and keeping a keen eye out for where this type of prejudice is concerned. Did you read the article at all? It's important because the IHRA isn't simply just a couple of sentences for a definition. It's much bigger than your portrayal and references illustrations to help guide it's use. Now I may be interpreting it wrong so if I am please correct me and show me what's wrong. The article has a letter criticising the definition which is signed by: The United Nations, B’Tselem, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the American Civil Liberties Union, and Israeli and Palestinian civil society groups. Does that mean all of the above organisations alongside myself and OldeStokie are antisemites because we don't agree with the definition used? It's a very dangerous definition which is being used as a political weapon in my opinion. And labelling OS criticism of zionism as antisemetic is evidence of that danger in my opinion. I'm sure you don't mean it in a bad way at all by the way as its just how you interpet antisemitism but I don't personally agree. And I stand with the UN, Amnesty International and many other human rights groups with their view of it. Not sure if you're jewish yourself or have jewish family. If sorry then I'm sorry if I've caused any offense. But no country should be immune from criticism and Israel needs to be held to account for its crimes. If that makes me an antisemite (according to one definition) then so be it. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 5, 2023 20:59:52 GMT
We must never underestimate the power of Zionists. They have more legs than a centipede and have infiltrated many societies with the attempt to silence any criticism. OS. OS, I have to say this.. I’m sure it was not your intention but this language is the stuff of classic, out-of-the box antisemitic tropes about shadowy figures having tentacles everywhere controlling us all. From the aforementioned ihrc definition of antisemitism, which perhaps you contest, I don’t know: “Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.” I appreciate you said “Zionists” not Jews and you want to make that distinction, but I think at the very least it still perpetuates really harmful, millennia-old stereotypes. Lots of respect for you as a poster and I’m sure you wouldn’t consider yourself to have a racist bone in your body but I had to say something because I found the way you put that very jarring to say the least. I'm not sure how you can acknowledge his use of the word "Zionists" not Jews then mention "out of the box anti-Semitic tropes" though, there's a very clear distinction? Not all Zionists are Jews and not all Jews are Zionists. I think you're absolutely right to highlight the sensitive nature of the topic mind, it is and can be a minefield but I'm glad to see a thread on Israel that can hopefully remain the right side of what's decent whatever people's opinions on the subject......... |
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Israel
Jul 5, 2023 21:02:22 GMT
Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 5, 2023 21:02:22 GMT
It's the perfect and most simple definition of what is antisemitic in my book........ |
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 5, 2023 21:04:41 GMT
Did you read the article at all? It's important because the IHRA isn't simply just a couple of sentences for a definition. It's much bigger than your portrayal and references illustrations to help guide it's use. Now I may be interpreting it wrong so if I am please correct me and show me what's wrong. The article has a letter criticising the definition which is signed by: The United Nations, B’Tselem, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the American Civil Liberties Union, and Israeli and Palestinian civil society groups. Does that mean all of the above organisations alongside myself and OldeStokie are antisemites because we don't agree with the definition used? It's a very dangerous definition which is being used as a political weapon in my opinion. And labelling OS criticism of zionism as antisemetic is evidence of that danger in my opinion. I'm sure you don't mean it in a bad way at all by the way as its just how you interpet antisemitism but I don't personally agree. And I stand with the UN, Amnesty International and many other human rights groups with their view of it. Not sure if you're jewish yourself or have jewish family. If sorry then I'm sorry if I've caused any offense. But no country should be immune from criticism and Israel needs to be held to account for its crimes. If that makes me an antisemite (according to one definition) then so be it. That's all fine, the definition is there to be debated, I haven't called you or OS antisemitic and I'm not offended. I was simply challenging your assertion that "criticism of Israel is antisemitic" according to the definition, when in fact it explicitly states the opposite. If the definition is being misused (emphasis on the mis) to silence legitimate criticism then that's a concern, but I'm unconvinced that's a problem with the definition itself, which in the main I think is considered, detailed and clear. |
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 5, 2023 21:15:34 GMT
OS, I have to say this.. I’m sure it was not your intention but this language is the stuff of classic, out-of-the box antisemitic tropes about shadowy figures having tentacles everywhere controlling us all. From the aforementioned ihrc definition of antisemitism, which perhaps you contest, I don’t know: “Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.” I appreciate you said “Zionists” not Jews and you want to make that distinction, but I think at the very least it still perpetuates really harmful, millennia-old stereotypes. Lots of respect for you as a poster and I’m sure you wouldn’t consider yourself to have a racist bone in your body but I had to say something because I found the way you put that very jarring to say the least. I'm not sure how you can acknowledge his use of the word "Zionists" not Jews then mention "out of the box anti-Semitic tropes" though, there's a very clear distinction? Not all Zionists are Jews and not all Jews are Zionists. I think you're absolutely right to highlight the sensitive nature of the topic mind, it is and can be a minefield but I'm glad to see a thread on Israel that can hopefully remain the right side of what's decent whatever people's opinions on the subject......... Well like I said because I think at the very least it perpetuates harmful stereotypes. I suppose I want to acknowledge OS' desire to make the distinction but point out that criticisms of Zionism - especially when couched in the type of language OS used - are often incredibly *indistinct* from ancient antisemitic tropes, and it is ground upon which it's important to tread with special, maybe unique, care... |
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Israel
Jul 5, 2023 21:22:07 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 5, 2023 21:22:07 GMT
I watched some of the commons debate on the anti-Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Bill and honestly the hypocrisy over the state of Israel is sickening. Labour Friends of Israel, Conservative Friends of Israel all ignoring the land grab in Gaza and the West Bank, the restriction of movement of civilian Palestinians and pussy footing round the hard line right wing government we now see in place. Ukranians are freedom fighters, Palestinians are terrorists. And anyone who shouts up about it is an anti-Semite, it would be laughable it wasn't so tragic for all those people involved (including Israeli civilians caught in the cross fire of course). Gary Lineker compares language used by the Nazis and there's a national outcry, yet MP's can just spout shit like this and there's silence........ Not many of us have a political home at present. Tragic really. |
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Israel
Jul 5, 2023 21:35:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by Gawa on Jul 5, 2023 21:35:53 GMT
It's important because the IHRA isn't simply just a couple of sentences for a definition. It's much bigger than your portrayal and references illustrations to help guide it's use. Now I may be interpreting it wrong so if I am please correct me and show me what's wrong. The article has a letter criticising the definition which is signed by: The United Nations, B’Tselem, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the American Civil Liberties Union, and Israeli and Palestinian civil society groups. Does that mean all of the above organisations alongside myself and OldeStokie are antisemites because we don't agree with the definition used? It's a very dangerous definition which is being used as a political weapon in my opinion. And labelling OS criticism of zionism as antisemetic is evidence of that danger in my opinion. I'm sure you don't mean it in a bad way at all by the way as its just how you interpet antisemitism but I don't personally agree. And I stand with the UN, Amnesty International and many other human rights groups with their view of it. Not sure if you're jewish yourself or have jewish family. If sorry then I'm sorry if I've caused any offense. But no country should be immune from criticism and Israel needs to be held to account for its crimes. If that makes me an antisemite (according to one definition) then so be it. That's all fine, the definition is there to be debated, I haven't called you or OS antisemitic and I'm not offended. I was simply challenging your assertion that "criticism of Israel is antisemitic" according to the definition, when in fact it explicitly states the opposite. If the definition is being misused (emphasis on the mis) to silence legitimate criticism then that's a concern, but I'm unconvinced that's a problem with the definition itself, which in the main I think is considered, detailed and clear. This is why I was asking if you read the article because I agree that when reading the definition it doesn't seem too bad. However it's how that language can be interpreted what is the problem. Its not really been reported too much in mainstream media either so people aren't overly aware of it. This letter here has alot of well explained criticisms - www.theguardian.com/news/2020/nov/29/palestinian-rights-and-the-ihra-definition-of-antisemitism |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 6, 2023 8:11:35 GMT
Embarrassing again from the BBC.......
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 6, 2023 8:17:00 GMT
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Post by andystokey on Jul 6, 2023 10:02:37 GMT
It was a well articulated piece that should rightly make us feel hypocrites. South Africa, Northern Ireland, Ukraine and Palestine we need international equivalence. |
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Politically homeless
