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Post by felonious on Feb 28, 2024 19:20:47 GMT
No, they shouldn’t keep people in prison without charge. Why is one Israeli hostage worth 10 Palestinians? I don’t follow why asking the above question and pointing out that is odd from a monster such as Netanyahu is taken as I am suddenly saying Israel have clean hands and have done nothing wrong. I have made it very clear that both sides are at fault here and the vast majority of people suffering are completely innocent and the vast majority of them are Palestinian. If Israel hadn’t acted as genocidal fuckwits for the last seventy odd years Than there would of been no need and no support for hamas to exist The ironic thing is that Israel will never have peace due to it's own actions over those 70 odd years during which it has managed to lose every bit of sympathy it had post second World war. The current despicable Israeli government is effectively imprisoning it's own people within stolen borders for years to come. There's so very little that unites this board but Netanyahu is doing a fine job.
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 20:29:28 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 20:29:28 GMT
No, they shouldn’t keep people in prison without charge. Why is one Israeli hostage worth 10 Palestinians? I don’t follow why asking the above question and pointing out that is odd from a monster such as Netanyahu is taken as I am suddenly saying Israel have clean hands and have done nothing wrong. I have made it very clear that both sides are at fault here and the vast majority of people suffering are completely innocent and the vast majority of them are Palestinian. If Israel hadn’t acted as genocidal fuckwits for the last seventy odd years Than there would of been no need and no support for hamas to exist It has to be the most ineffective genocide ever then. They have held the military advantage for all that time to commit genocide and have only started wielding it now after the 7th October. Both sides are culpable.
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 20:32:32 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 20:32:32 GMT
Are you really justifying Hamas’ attack on 7 October and their taking of hostages as a means to get their own people released? If that was indeed their tactic and justification of mass murder and rape, that has backfired spectacularly for Hamas and Palestine. Repeating my comments once more, neither side should be taking any hostages and anyone detained by either side for illegitimate reasons (so have not be arrested and charged with a crime) should be immediately released without any conditions. For everyone detained to be immediately released, we're going to need a ratio of at LEAST 10:1. Is it making sense now? I don’t know why you need a ratio. I think the lot who are not charged for a criminal offence should be released. All of them. On both sides. Otherwise they cannot really complain about the other side holding people without charge. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Will you even condemn what Hamas have done? Or will you stick to only blaming Israel? Were Hamas justified in raping and murdering because many Palestinians are locked up without charge? Is rape and murder the best way to get them released do you think? I don’t.
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 20:34:39 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 20:34:39 GMT
If Israel hadn’t acted as genocidal fuckwits for the last seventy odd years Than there would of been no need and no support for hamas to exist The ironic thing is that Israel will never have peace due to it's own actions over those 70 odd years during which it has managed to lose every bit of sympathy it had post second World war. The current despicable Israeli government is effectively imprisoning it's own people within stolen borders for years to come. There's so very little that unites this board but Netanyahu is doing a fine job. Absolutely. And neither will Hamas. Israel need to rid themselves of Netanyahu asap, and Palestinians need to rid themselves of Hamas asap.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2024 20:35:57 GMT
For everyone detained to be immediately released, we're going to need a ratio of at LEAST 10:1. Is it making sense now? I don’t know why you need a ratio. I think the lot who are not charged for a criminal offence should be released. All of them. On both sides. Otherwise they cannot really complain about the other side holding people without charge. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Will you even condemn what Hamas have done? Or will you stick to only blaming Israel? Oggy, everyone has condemned what Hamas have done. This thread is over 188 pages long. People don’t have to start every new comment with “Hamas are an awful terrible organization who have committed atrocities” before making a point.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2024 20:43:28 GMT
If Israel hadn’t acted as genocidal fuckwits for the last seventy odd years Than there would of been no need and no support for hamas to exist It has to be the most ineffective genocide ever then. They have held the military advantage for all that time to commit genocide and have only started wielding it now after the 7th October. Both sides are culpable. Israel have denied rights to Palestinians in Israel for about 70 years. Palestinians who lived in Israel either had to live in a one way military apartheid or flee to a neighboring region, leaving behind all of their assets. To this date, Palestinians remaining in Israel are significantly more likely to have to leave school early to enter the workforce and to die at a younger age than Israeli’s. In recent years, the Knesset has grown increasingly anti-Palestinian and has pushed harder and harder to strip away basic rights. In the West Bank, IDF rape Palestinian women at their leisure. They lock up people who protest being invaded. Gaza has been under and Israeli lock and key for years, and they have all but controlled their access to food and drink. Overall, Israel have led an incredibly successful genocide of a people. One that is being carried out on live TV while the world skips channels to watch Bake Off reruns.
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 20:49:19 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 20:49:19 GMT
I don’t know why you need a ratio. I think the lot who are not charged for a criminal offence should be released. All of them. On both sides. Otherwise they cannot really complain about the other side holding people without charge. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Will you even condemn what Hamas have done? Or will you stick to only blaming Israel? Oggy, everyone has condemned what Hamas have done. This thread is over 188 pages long. People don’t have to start every new comment with “Hamas are an awful terrible organization who have committed atrocities” before making a point. Oh, have we got to the point where Hamas are justified doing whatever. Holding hostages still is no biggy. No blame can be on their part whatsoever.
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 20:49:59 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 20:49:59 GMT
It has to be the most ineffective genocide ever then. They have held the military advantage for all that time to commit genocide and have only started wielding it now after the 7th October. Both sides are culpable. Israel have denied rights to Palestinians in Israel for about 70 years. Palestinians who lived in Israel either had to live in a one way military apartheid or flee to a neighboring region, leaving behind all of their assets. To this date, Palestinians remaining in Israel are significantly more likely to have to leave school early to enter the workforce and to die at a younger age than Israeli’s. In recent years, the Knesset has grown increasingly anti-Palestinian and has pushed harder and harder to strip away basic rights. In the West Bank, IDF rape Palestinian women at their leisure. They lock up people who protest being invaded. Gaza has been under and Israeli lock and key for years, and they have all but controlled their access to food and drink. Overall, Israel have led an incredibly successful genocide of a people. One that is being carried out on live TV while the world skips channels to watch Bake Off reruns. Oh, well that justifies children being held hostage then.
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 20:51:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2024 20:51:12 GMT
Oggy, everyone has condemned what Hamas have done. This thread is over 188 pages long. People don’t have to start every new comment with “Hamas are an awful terrible organization who have committed atrocities” before making a point. Oh, have we got to the point where Hamas are justified doing whatever. Holding hostages still is no biggy. No blame can be on their part whatsoever. Hamas are an awful, terrible organization who have committed atrocities. No, we’ve got to the point where everyone has already condemned them. How much condemning is enough condemning?
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 20:51:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2024 20:51:55 GMT
Israel have denied rights to Palestinians in Israel for about 70 years. Palestinians who lived in Israel either had to live in a one way military apartheid or flee to a neighboring region, leaving behind all of their assets. To this date, Palestinians remaining in Israel are significantly more likely to have to leave school early to enter the workforce and to die at a younger age than Israeli’s. In recent years, the Knesset has grown increasingly anti-Palestinian and has pushed harder and harder to strip away basic rights. In the West Bank, IDF rape Palestinian women at their leisure. They lock up people who protest being invaded. Gaza has been under and Israeli lock and key for years, and they have all but controlled their access to food and drink. Overall, Israel have led an incredibly successful genocide of a people. One that is being carried out on live TV while the world skips channels to watch Bake Off reruns. Oh, well that justifies children being held hostage then. Hamas are an awful, terrible organization who have committed atrocities. No one has said that it does.
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 21:02:40 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 21:02:40 GMT
Oh, have we got to the point where Hamas are justified doing whatever. Holding hostages still is no biggy. No blame can be on their part whatsoever. Hamas are an awful, terrible organization who have committed atrocities. No, we’ve got to the point where everyone has already condemned them. How much condemning is enough condemning? I don’t know. My view is both sides are awful.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 28, 2024 21:05:09 GMT
The ironic thing is that Israel will never have peace due to it's own actions over those 70 odd years during which it has managed to lose every bit of sympathy it had post second World war. The current despicable Israeli government is effectively imprisoning it's own people within stolen borders for years to come. There's so very little that unites this board but Netanyahu is doing a fine job. Absolutely. And neither will Hamas. Israel need to rid themselves of Netanyahu asap, and Palestinians need to rid themselves of Hamas asap. How do Palestinian’s rid themselves of Hamas when they’re currently squashed up against the Egyptian border and the sea with nowhere to go, with no food or sanitation? And how do Palestinians in the West Bank get rid of Hamas when Hamas don’t even operate in the West Bank?
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 21:07:05 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 21:07:05 GMT
Oh, well that justifies children being held hostage then. Hamas are an awful, terrible organization who have committed atrocities. No one has said that it does. Paul Spencer said “How many hostages do you think they'd be getting back at all if they hadn't taken any of their own?” It sounds to me like he is justifying the taking of hostages by Hamas on 7 October so they could use those hostages to secure the release of Palestinians. I suppose he wouldn’t care if that was his wife/son/daughter/mother/father etc taken hostage if it meant they could be used as pawns to negotiate for other held being released.
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 21:09:25 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 21:09:25 GMT
Absolutely. And neither will Hamas. Israel need to rid themselves of Netanyahu asap, and Palestinians need to rid themselves of Hamas asap. How do Palestinian’s rid themselves of Hamas when they’re currently squashed up against the Egyptian border and the sea with nowhere to go, with no food or sanitation? And how do Palestinians in the West Bank get rid of Hamas when Hamas don’t even operate in the West Bank? They shouldn’t vote for them. Like Israelis shouldn’t vote for Netenyahu.
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 28, 2024 21:16:25 GMT
If Israel hadn’t acted as genocidal fuckwits for the last seventy odd years Than there would of been no need and no support for hamas to exist It has to be the most ineffective genocide ever then. They have held the military advantage for all that time to commit genocide and have only started wielding it now after the 7th October. Both sides are culpable. Bless you carry on believing that Israel has only been a tad naughty since late 2023 I’ll stick with that Israel has been murdering genocidal wankers since 1948 Murdering stealing and expelling a race of people who’s only alleged crime misfortune at the time was to live /work on land that had been in there family’s for a thousand years or more Just because a bunch of religious zealots believe they have a god given right to something Then a bunch of western politicians through a mixture of financial pressures and guilt agree they can have doesn’t make it correct or moral
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 28, 2024 21:18:54 GMT
How do Palestinian’s rid themselves of Hamas when they’re currently squashed up against the Egyptian border and the sea with nowhere to go, with no food or sanitation? And how do Palestinians in the West Bank get rid of Hamas when Hamas don’t even operate in the West Bank? They shouldn’t vote for them. Like Israelis shouldn’t vote for Netenyahu. Hardly any Palestinian’s in Gaza could vote when the last election was held in 2006 as Gaza’s population is so young. And I know the West Bank is an inconvenient side show but they didn’t vote for Hamas……
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2024 21:24:38 GMT
Hamas are an awful, terrible organization who have committed atrocities. No one has said that it does. Paul Spencer said “How many hostages do you think they'd be getting back at all if they hadn't taken any of their own?” It sounds to me like he is justifying the taking of hostages by Hamas on 7 October so they could use those hostages to secure the release of Palestinians. I suppose he wouldn’t care if that was his wife/son/daughter/mother/father etc taken hostage if it meant they could be used as pawns to negotiate for other held being released. Hamas are an awful, terrible organization who have committed atrocities. It sounds quite logical to me. It’s disgusting that human lives are treated as pawns by States but it happens all day, everyday. I don’t see that comment as trying to justify Hamas’ actions (certainly not on morality of their actions) but it may help to explain them. In my opinion though, I don’t think that Hamas could care less about Palestinians detained without charge, in fact they probably hope that Israel detain more in the West Bank as it’s bad for PR. I think that they are a byproduct. I think that they took hostages because they wanted to embarrass Israel and they’ve kept them because it looks good for Hamas’ PR to say that they’ve managed to get many Palestinians released (while ignoring that even more are arrested). What Hamas did was terrible. On a sheer numbers element, what Israel have done, are doing and will continue to do seems worse. They are happy to commit a disgusting genocide carried out by a leader who is desperate for a distraction and some extra oil to line his corrupt pockets.
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 21:38:16 GMT
It has to be the most ineffective genocide ever then. They have held the military advantage for all that time to commit genocide and have only started wielding it now after the 7th October. Both sides are culpable. Bless you carry on believing that Israel has only been a tad naughty since late 2023 I’ll stick with that Israel has been murdering genocidal wankers since 1948 Murdering stealing and expelling a race of people who’s only alleged crime misfortune at the time was to live /work on land that had been in there family’s for a thousand years or more Just because a bunch of religious zealots believe they have a god given right to something Then a bunch of western politicians through a mixture of financial pressures and guilt agree they can have doesn’t make it correct or moral And Hamas are saints. Like I said, both are responsible for the mess. Anyone only blaming one side, as you clearly are, is part of the problem.
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 28, 2024 21:40:14 GMT
Bless you carry on believing that Israel has only been a tad naughty since late 2023 I’ll stick with that Israel has been murdering genocidal wankers since 1948 Murdering stealing and expelling a race of people who’s only alleged crime misfortune at the time was to live /work on land that had been in there family’s for a thousand years or more Just because a bunch of religious zealots believe they have a god given right to something Then a bunch of western politicians through a mixture of financial pressures and guilt agree they can have doesn’t make it correct or moral And Hamas are saints. Like I said, both are responsible for the mess. Anyone only blaming one side, as you clearly are, is part of the problem. What’s your opinion on Nelson Mandela and the anc ? And can you please find a post on this thread by me where I say hamas are saints
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Post by wannabee on Feb 28, 2024 21:57:03 GMT
If Israel hadn’t acted as genocidal fuckwits for the last seventy odd years Than there would of been no need and no support for hamas to exist It has to be the most ineffective genocide ever then. They have held the military advantage for all that time to commit genocide and have only started wielding it now after the 7th October. Both sides are culpable. I think you're deliberately Gaslighting now Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing two sides of the same coin While ethnic cleansing and genocide may share the same goal and methods (e.g., forced displacement), ethnic cleansing is intended to displace a persecuted population from a given territory, while genocide is intended to destroy a group.The Nakba in 1948 was the beginning of Palestinian Displacement the next major displacements took place in 1967 and 1973 As of today about half the Palestinian Population of 14 Million have been displaced. The Majority in Refugee Camps in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. They are prohibited to return to Palestine to reclaim their lands which were confiscated Of the other 7 Million, 2 Million live in Gaza in an open Prison turned to Rubble, 3 Million live in the West Bank under Occupation and 2 Million in Israel both of these groups are living in an Apartheid State as Second Class Citizens
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 28, 2024 23:02:39 GMT
For everyone detained to be immediately released, we're going to need a ratio of at LEAST 10:1. Is it making sense now? I don’t know why you need a ratio. I think the lot who are not charged for a criminal offence should be released. All of them. On both sides. Otherwise they cannot really complain about the other side holding people without charge. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Will you even condemn what Hamas have done? Or will you stick to only blaming Israel? Were Hamas justified in raping and murdering because many Palestinians are locked up without charge? Is rape and murder the best way to get them released do you think? I don’t. Blimey Oggy, this thread has been running for five months and you ruck up today, acting like it started yesterday, with niave post after niave post, clearly demonstrating that you have little understanding of the history of the conflict, whilst displaying the most ridiculously primitive grasp of how international diplomacy works. Poster after poster, has politely attempted to steer you in the right direction but you're not interested in a single word that anybody else has to say, all the while, embarassing yourself, by asking people ignorant questions, like, will they condemn Hamas? or accusing them of being terrorist sympathisers with a swivel eyed view of the conflict. Christ alive man, all this stuff was addressed MONTHS ago. Apologies if you feel that I'm being a bit strong in my response mate but I'm genuinely at a loss at where else to go with this now.
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Post by gawa on Feb 28, 2024 23:51:20 GMT
Hamas are an awful, terrible organization who have committed atrocities.
Oggy oggy oggy oi oi oi
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 28, 2024 23:57:45 GMT
Can an entire European nation be accused of being antisemitic?
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Post by roylandstoke on Feb 29, 2024 7:10:16 GMT
Can an entire European nation be accused of being antisemitic? I think anyone who doesn’t actively support the slaughter of Palestinians, and the continuation of apartheid in Israel, is in danger of being labelled antisemitic.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 29, 2024 7:27:21 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 29, 2024 7:30:34 GMT
It has to be the most ineffective genocide ever then. They have held the military advantage for all that time to commit genocide and have only started wielding it now after the 7th October. Both sides are culpable. I think you're deliberately Gaslighting now Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing two sides of the same coin While ethnic cleansing and genocide may share the same goal and methods (e.g., forced displacement), ethnic cleansing is intended to displace a persecuted population from a given territory, while genocide is intended to destroy a group.The Nakba in 1948 was the beginning of Palestinian Displacement the next major displacements took place in 1967 and 1973 As of today about half the Palestinian Population of 14 Million have been displaced. The Majority in Refugee Camps in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. They are prohibited to return to Palestine to reclaim their lands which were confiscated Of the other 7 Million, 2 Million live in Gaza in an open Prison turned to Rubble, 3 Million live in the West Bank under Occupation and 2 Million in Israel both of these groups are living in an Apartheid State as Second Class Citizens I still don’t see the justification for what Hamas do. Murder and rape and taking hostages is never justified. We both know that if Hamas had the means, they would murder every Jewish person on earth.
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Israel
Feb 29, 2024 8:01:43 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 29, 2024 8:01:43 GMT
I don’t know why you need a ratio. I think the lot who are not charged for a criminal offence should be released. All of them. On both sides. Otherwise they cannot really complain about the other side holding people without charge. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Will you even condemn what Hamas have done? Or will you stick to only blaming Israel? Were Hamas justified in raping and murdering because many Palestinians are locked up without charge? Is rape and murder the best way to get them released do you think? I don’t. Blimey Oggy, this thread has been running for five months and you ruck up today, acting like it started yesterday, with niave post after niave post, clearly demonstrating that you have little understanding of the history of the conflict, whilst displaying the most ridiculously primitive grasp of how international diplomacy works. Poster after poster, has politely attempted to steer you in the right direction but you're not interested in a single word that anybody else has to say, all the while, embarassing yourself, by asking people ignorant questions, like, will they condemn Hamas? or accusing them of being terrorist sympathisers with a swivel eyed view of the conflict. Christ alive man, all this stuff was addressed MONTHS ago. Apologies if you feel that I'm being a bit strong in my response mate but I'm genuinely at a loss at where else to go with this now. Actually, poster after poster has been critical of Israel and put the blame squarely on them. You even seemed to be saying Hamas were justified in their actions on 7 October (I don’t think you really think that). Poster after poster has been patronising with no idea of my knowledge of the history. My knowledge has of the history confirms my next paragraph. All I am doing is saying both sides are to blame. Pointing out that I don’t think a life on one side is worth more than a life on another and that both sides should be immediately releasing everyone they hold if they have not committed a criminal offence they are being actively charged with, and that anyone who only blames one side is part of the problem. I don’t see how those points are controversial to any reasonable and objective person. I also said the fact Netenyahu is potentially proposing to release 10 Palestinians to free 1 hostage taken by Hamas strikes me as the actions of someone who isn’t the genocidal maniac his invasion of Gaza makes him appear. Others have made some good points about numbers held etc. The second I say something bad about Hamas, I get multiple posters ranting about how terrible Israel is.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Feb 29, 2024 8:02:06 GMT
It has to be the most ineffective genocide ever then. They have held the military advantage for all that time to commit genocide and have only started wielding it now after the 7th October. Both sides are culpable. I think you're deliberately Gaslighting now Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing two sides of the same coin While ethnic cleansing and genocide may share the same goal and methods (e.g., forced displacement), ethnic cleansing is intended to displace a persecuted population from a given territory, while genocide is intended to destroy a group.The Nakba in 1948 was the beginning of Palestinian Displacement the next major displacements took place in 1967 and 1973 As of today about half the Palestinian Population of 14 Million have been displaced. The Majority in Refugee Camps in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. They are prohibited to return to Palestine to reclaim their lands which were confiscated Of the other 7 Million, 2 Million live in Gaza in an open Prison turned to Rubble, 3 Million live in the West Bank under Occupation and 2 Million in Israel both of these groups are living in an Apartheid State as Second Class Citizens ![](//storage.proboards.com/800541/thumbnailer/kn0PdUzNlfYMuZVAy0gP.png) So the people displaced according to this map would only have been forced to move somewhere else?
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Israel
Feb 29, 2024 8:20:40 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 29, 2024 8:20:40 GMT
I think you're deliberately Gaslighting now Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing two sides of the same coin While ethnic cleansing and genocide may share the same goal and methods (e.g., forced displacement), ethnic cleansing is intended to displace a persecuted population from a given territory, while genocide is intended to destroy a group.The Nakba in 1948 was the beginning of Palestinian Displacement the next major displacements took place in 1967 and 1973 As of today about half the Palestinian Population of 14 Million have been displaced. The Majority in Refugee Camps in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. They are prohibited to return to Palestine to reclaim their lands which were confiscated Of the other 7 Million, 2 Million live in Gaza in an open Prison turned to Rubble, 3 Million live in the West Bank under Occupation and 2 Million in Israel both of these groups are living in an Apartheid State as Second Class Citizens I still don’t see the justification for what Hamas do. Murder and rape and taking hostages is never justified. We both know that if Hamas had the means, they would murder every Jewish person on earth. Was the anc justified in what it did
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Israel
Feb 29, 2024 8:39:35 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 29, 2024 8:39:35 GMT
I still don’t see the justification for what Hamas do. Murder and rape and taking hostages is never justified. We both know that if Hamas had the means, they would murder every Jewish person on earth. Was the anc justified in what it did I don’t know, start a thread about it. Do you think Hamas are blameless in the Middle East conflict?
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