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Israel
Feb 27, 2024 22:18:11 GMT
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Post by ColonelMustard on Feb 27, 2024 22:18:11 GMT
Aren't mitary expected to be prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice? Isnt that what hes done? How it can then be construed as mental illness?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 27, 2024 22:52:52 GMT
Why are Hamas still keeping children, the sick and elderly hostage? Absolutely inexcusable. Actually, why did they take any hostages whatsoever and provoke this barbaric response which they surely knew it would? It is a reminder that both sides are culpable and neither come with clean hands (unlike I suspect 99.9% who have died or been taken hostage since 7 October). We have no idea why or on what grounds the Palestinians prisoners being released were arrested in the first place, but worst case they have done nothing wrong whatsoever, something we can say with absolute certainty about each and every hostage. So why the 10:1 ratio? I find that a truly bizarre logic oggy. You do realise that Israel has got hundreds of kids locked-up without charge don't you? You're essentially saying that because Hamas didn't take as many hostages as Israel have taken, then they don't get to get back all THEIR hostages. The inference being, that they needed to take even more hostages, to get a 'fair' deal for their hostages. If one child hostage on one side is to be released, that doesn't then mean that only one child hostage on the other side should be released. As for your other point, Netanyahu IS a genocidal maniac ... 13,000 kids have been slaughtered in the last 20 weeks. From way before October 7th: www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-on-palestinian-children--
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Post by roylandstoke on Feb 27, 2024 23:55:12 GMT
This post is not taking sides at all but is just an observation. The draft terms of a ceasefire are for Israel to release Palestinian prisoners at a ratio of 10:1 for Israeli hostages that include women, children under 19, elderly over 50 and the sick. Why are Hamas still keeping children, the sick and elderly hostage? Absolutely inexcusable. Actually, why did they take any hostages whatsoever and provoke this barbaric response which they surely knew it would? It is a reminder that both sides are culpable and neither come with clean hands (unlike I suspect 99.9% who have died or been taken hostage since 7 October). We have no idea why or on what grounds the Palestinians prisoners being released were arrested in the first place, but worst case they have done nothing wrong whatsoever, something we can say with absolute certainty about each and every hostage. So why the 10:1 ratio? Now we don’t know if those are the final terms of course. But this does not strike me as a deal brokered by a genocidal maniac that Netanyahu has come across as. Quite the contrary. Hamas is holding up to 150 hostages. Since the awful terrorist atrocity of October 7 Israel has taken almost 7000 Palestinians, from the illegally occupied West Bank, hostage. The IDF has supported Israeli terrorists in murdering over 400 Palestinians in the West Bank, whilst killing thousands of children in Gaza. It has also murdered at least 3 of the hostages that the Hamas terrorists had taken. Netanyahu’s Israel is committed to killing as many Palestinians as its supporters in the West will allow. He will continue to order his forces to kill Palestinians until the West stops supporting his military. He leads a racist, apartheid government that had no respect for international law and has shown itself to be determined to to out fo the barbarism of Hamas. I am ashamed to live in a, so called civilised state, that continues to support the actions of a genocidal maniac.
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Post by wannabee on Feb 27, 2024 23:58:51 GMT
This post is not taking sides at all but is just an observation. The draft terms of a ceasefire are for Israel to release Palestinian prisoners at a ratio of 10:1 for Israeli hostages that include women, children under 19, elderly over 50 and the sick. Why are Hamas still keeping children, the sick and elderly hostage? Absolutely inexcusable. Actually, why did they take any hostages whatsoever and provoke this barbaric response which they surely knew it would? It is a reminder that both sides are culpable and neither come with clean hands (unlike I suspect 99.9% who have died or been taken hostage since 7 October). We have no idea why or on what grounds the Palestinians prisoners being released were arrested in the first place, but worst case they have done nothing wrong whatsoever, something we can say with absolute certainty about each and every hostage. So why the 10:1 ratio? Now we don’t know if those are the final terms of course. But this does not strike me as a deal brokered by a genocidal maniac that Netanyahu has come across as. Quite the contrary. This isn't taking sides either but you are looking through the Telescope from the wrong end The numbers are fluid and difficult to verify but best estimates are 2.3 M Gazans are being held in an open Prison in Gaza now turned to rubble from which before 7th October they had very limited access/permission from Israeli Authorities to leave the Gaza Strip Since the 1967 War and Israeli occupation of West Bank and East Jerusalem and the construction of fencing to enclose Gaza as an Open Prison over 1 Million Palestinians have been imprisoned by Israel the vast majority without charge. That it 4 out of 10 Palestinian Men spend some period of time in an Israeli Prison www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/8/why-are-so-many-palestinian-prisoners-in-israeli-jailsThere are about 8,000 Palestinians held in Israeli detention, the vast majority from West Bank and East Jerusalem of which about 3,000 are held without charge or as it call "Administrative Detention" of these several hundred are children and an equal number of women. At the last Hostage exchange the vast majority of Palestinians released were these women and children but since then triple that amount have been "Administratively Detained" www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/29/jailed-without-charge-how-israel-holds-thousands-of-palestinian-prisonerswww.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/21/more-than-8000-palestinians-in-israeli-jails-rights-groups-sayI'm Fucking tired of people saying this conflict started on 7th October 2023
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Post by gawa on Feb 28, 2024 0:08:50 GMT
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 7:46:34 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 7:46:34 GMT
Why are Hamas still keeping children, the sick and elderly hostage? Absolutely inexcusable. Actually, why did they take any hostages whatsoever and provoke this barbaric response which they surely knew it would? It is a reminder that both sides are culpable and neither come with clean hands (unlike I suspect 99.9% who have died or been taken hostage since 7 October). We have no idea why or on what grounds the Palestinians prisoners being released were arrested in the first place, but worst case they have done nothing wrong whatsoever, something we can say with absolute certainty about each and every hostage. So why the 10:1 ratio? I find that a truly bizarre logic oggy. You do realise that Israel has got hundreds of kids locked-up without charge don't you? You're essentially saying that because Hamas didn't take as many hostages as Israel have taken, then they don't get to get back all THEIR hostages. The inference being, that they needed to take even more hostages, to get a 'fair' deal for their hostages. If one child hostage on one side is to be released, that doesn't then mean that only one child hostage on the other side should be released. As for your other point, Netanyahu IS a genocidal maniac ... 13,000 kids have been slaughtered in the last 20 weeks. From way before October 7th: www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-on-palestinian-children--I disagree. I don’t think the lives of Palestinian hostages are worth more than the lives of Israeli hostages.
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 7:48:36 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 7:48:36 GMT
This post is not taking sides at all but is just an observation. The draft terms of a ceasefire are for Israel to release Palestinian prisoners at a ratio of 10:1 for Israeli hostages that include women, children under 19, elderly over 50 and the sick. Why are Hamas still keeping children, the sick and elderly hostage? Absolutely inexcusable. Actually, why did they take any hostages whatsoever and provoke this barbaric response which they surely knew it would? It is a reminder that both sides are culpable and neither come with clean hands (unlike I suspect 99.9% who have died or been taken hostage since 7 October). We have no idea why or on what grounds the Palestinians prisoners being released were arrested in the first place, but worst case they have done nothing wrong whatsoever, something we can say with absolute certainty about each and every hostage. So why the 10:1 ratio? Now we don’t know if those are the final terms of course. But this does not strike me as a deal brokered by a genocidal maniac that Netanyahu has come across as. Quite the contrary. This isn't taking sides either but you are looking through the Telescope from the wrong end The numbers are fluid and difficult to verify but best estimates are 2.3 M Gazans are being held in an open Prison in Gaza now turned to rubble from which before 7th October they had very limited access/permission from Israeli Authorities to leave the Gaza Strip Since the 1967 War and Israeli occupation of West Bank and East Jerusalem and the construction of fencing to enclose Gaza as an Open Prison over 1 Million Palestinians have been imprisoned by Israel the vast majority without charge. That it 4 out of 10 Palestinian Men spend some period of time in an Israeli Prison www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/8/why-are-so-many-palestinian-prisoners-in-israeli-jailsThere are about 8,000 Palestinians held in Israeli detention, the vast majority from West Bank and East Jerusalem of which about 3,000 are held without charge or as it call "Administrative Detention" of these several hundred are children and an equal number of women. At the last Hostage exchange the vast majority of Palestinians released were these women and children but since then triple that amount have been "Administratively Detained" www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/29/jailed-without-charge-how-israel-holds-thousands-of-palestinian-prisonerswww.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/21/more-than-8000-palestinians-in-israeli-jails-rights-groups-sayI'm Fucking tired of people saying this conflict started on 7th October 2023 I’m tired of anyone who says anything objective being told “yeh but Israel started it”. The Israelites were in this part of the world thousands of years ago remember. They were enslaved. Israel has a right to exist equally to Palestine. One is not better or has a greater claim than another. The fact remains, if Hamas don’t attack like they did on 7th October, Gaza isn’t levelled and millions of lives endangered. You obviously value a Palestinian hostage mire than an Israeli hostage. I see them as equal.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 28, 2024 8:48:28 GMT
This isn't taking sides either but you are looking through the Telescope from the wrong end The numbers are fluid and difficult to verify but best estimates are 2.3 M Gazans are being held in an open Prison in Gaza now turned to rubble from which before 7th October they had very limited access/permission from Israeli Authorities to leave the Gaza Strip Since the 1967 War and Israeli occupation of West Bank and East Jerusalem and the construction of fencing to enclose Gaza as an Open Prison over 1 Million Palestinians have been imprisoned by Israel the vast majority without charge. That it 4 out of 10 Palestinian Men spend some period of time in an Israeli Prison www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/8/why-are-so-many-palestinian-prisoners-in-israeli-jailsThere are about 8,000 Palestinians held in Israeli detention, the vast majority from West Bank and East Jerusalem of which about 3,000 are held without charge or as it call "Administrative Detention" of these several hundred are children and an equal number of women. At the last Hostage exchange the vast majority of Palestinians released were these women and children but since then triple that amount have been "Administratively Detained" www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/29/jailed-without-charge-how-israel-holds-thousands-of-palestinian-prisonerswww.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/21/more-than-8000-palestinians-in-israeli-jails-rights-groups-sayI'm Fucking tired of people saying this conflict started on 7th October 2023 I’m tired of anyone who says anything objective being told “yeh but Israel started it”. The Israelites were in this part of the world thousands of years ago remember. They were enslaved. Israel has a right to exist equally to Palestine. One is not better or has a greater claim than another. The fact remains, if Hamas don’t attack like they did on 7th October, Gaza isn’t levelled and millions of lives endangered. You obviously value a Palestinian hostage mire than an Israeli hostage. I see them as equal. So let’s talk about the West Bank instead then, whats the rationale for rogue settlers and the Israeli state continuing to kill and displace Palestinians creating more refugees, more lost lives and a land grab that defies the UN ruling? Bringing up the West Bank never suits the narrative as it shatters the myth that Israel are simply defending themselves from a terrorist organisation……
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 28, 2024 8:59:12 GMT
I find that a truly bizarre logic oggy. You do realise that Israel has got hundreds of kids locked-up without charge don't you? You're essentially saying that because Hamas didn't take as many hostages as Israel have taken, then they don't get to get back all THEIR hostages. The inference being, that they needed to take even more hostages, to get a 'fair' deal for their hostages. If one child hostage on one side is to be released, that doesn't then mean that only one child hostage on the other side should be released. As for your other point, Netanyahu IS a genocidal maniac ... 13,000 kids have been slaughtered in the last 20 weeks. From way before October 7th: www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-on-palestinian-children--I disagree. I don’t think the lives of Palestinian hostages are worth more than the lives of Israeli hostages. I agree I also think a Israeli life is equal to a Palestinians life I also think Israeli human rights are equal to Palestinians human rights I also think a Israeli land deed is as valid as a Palestinians land deed I believe in the rule of law no detention without charge and trial Do you agree ?
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 9:03:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 9:03:17 GMT
I’m tired of anyone who says anything objective being told “yeh but Israel started it”. The Israelites were in this part of the world thousands of years ago remember. They were enslaved. Israel has a right to exist equally to Palestine. One is not better or has a greater claim than another. The fact remains, if Hamas don’t attack like they did on 7th October, Gaza isn’t levelled and millions of lives endangered. You obviously value a Palestinian hostage mire than an Israeli hostage. I see them as equal. So let’s talk about the West Bank instead then, whats the rationale for rogue settlers and the Israeli state continuing to kill and displace Palestinians creating more refugees, more lost lives and a land grab that defies the UN ruling? Bringing up the West Bank never suits the narrative as it shatters the myth that Israel are simply defending themselves from a terrorist organisation…… Which isn’t something I have said. Potentially giving 10 hostages for 1 of your own doesn’t strike me as something a genocidal maniac would do. That’s the point I am making. I am not going to try and justify Israel’s actions or the actions of Hamas. Neither can be justified whatsoever. The only way to move forward is to stop attributing blame and justifications for heinous actions.
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 9:03:52 GMT
via mobile
Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 9:03:52 GMT
I disagree. I don’t think the lives of Palestinian hostages are worth more than the lives of Israeli hostages. I agree I also think a Israeli life is equal to a Palestinians life I also think Israeli human rights are equal to Palestinians human rights I also think a Israeli land deed is as valid as a Palestinians land deed I believe in the rule of law no detention without charge and trial Do you agree ? Absolutely. Neither side follows the above though.
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Post by wannabee on Feb 28, 2024 9:31:12 GMT
This isn't taking sides either but you are looking through the Telescope from the wrong end The numbers are fluid and difficult to verify but best estimates are 2.3 M Gazans are being held in an open Prison in Gaza now turned to rubble from which before 7th October they had very limited access/permission from Israeli Authorities to leave the Gaza Strip Since the 1967 War and Israeli occupation of West Bank and East Jerusalem and the construction of fencing to enclose Gaza as an Open Prison over 1 Million Palestinians have been imprisoned by Israel the vast majority without charge. That it 4 out of 10 Palestinian Men spend some period of time in an Israeli Prison www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/8/why-are-so-many-palestinian-prisoners-in-israeli-jailsThere are about 8,000 Palestinians held in Israeli detention, the vast majority from West Bank and East Jerusalem of which about 3,000 are held without charge or as it call "Administrative Detention" of these several hundred are children and an equal number of women. At the last Hostage exchange the vast majority of Palestinians released were these women and children but since then triple that amount have been "Administratively Detained" www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/29/jailed-without-charge-how-israel-holds-thousands-of-palestinian-prisonerswww.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/21/more-than-8000-palestinians-in-israeli-jails-rights-groups-sayI'm Fucking tired of people saying this conflict started on 7th October 2023 I’m tired of anyone who says anything objective being told “yeh but Israel started it”. The Israelites were in this part of the world thousands of years ago remember. They were enslaved. Israel has a right to exist equally to Palestine. One is not better or has a greater claim than another. The fact remains, if Hamas don’t attack like they did on 7th October, Gaza isn’t levelled and millions of lives endangered. You obviously value a Palestinian hostage mire than an Israeli hostage. I see them as equal. Yes they were in that part of the World 3/4000 years ago along with many other nomadic tribes and conquerors. There is no conclusive archeological evidence for Exodus or that people that worshipped Yahweh were enslaved in Ancient Egypt.You either believe or you don't believe You defence of Netanyahu is based on a 10:1 Numbers Game, how does 30,000:1,400 fit into your equation? If course Israeli's and Palestinians lives are equal and deserve to live in Peace. The last great hope for a lasting and sustainable peace was the Oslo Accords. Video Footage of Netanyahu boasting of how he never accepted the Accords and how he went about dismantling it have appeared on this thread several times. Anyone that doesn't think Netanyahu is a Genocidal Maniac needs to give there Head a Wobble Unfortunately he isn't the only Nutjob there are plenty more on either side.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 28, 2024 9:35:24 GMT
So let’s talk about the West Bank instead then, whats the rationale for rogue settlers and the Israeli state continuing to kill and displace Palestinians creating more refugees, more lost lives and a land grab that defies the UN ruling? Bringing up the West Bank never suits the narrative as it shatters the myth that Israel are simply defending themselves from a terrorist organisation…… Which isn’t something I have said. P otentially giving 10 hostages for 1 of your own doesn’t strike me as something a genocidal maniac would do. That’s the point I am making. I am not going to try and justify Israel’s actions or the actions of Hamas. Neither can be justified whatsoever. The only way to move forward is to stop attributing blame and justifications for heinous actions. Is overseeing the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in the West Bank something a genocidal maniac would do?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 28, 2024 11:24:29 GMT
I find that a truly bizarre logic oggy. You do realise that Israel has got hundreds of kids locked-up without charge don't you? You're essentially saying that because Hamas didn't take as many hostages as Israel have taken, then they don't get to get back all THEIR hostages. The inference being, that they needed to take even more hostages, to get a 'fair' deal for their hostages. If one child hostage on one side is to be released, that doesn't then mean that only one child hostage on the other side should be released. As for your other point, Netanyahu IS a genocidal maniac ... 13,000 kids have been slaughtered in the last 20 weeks. From way before October 7th: www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-on-palestinian-children--I disagree. I don’t think the lives of Palestinian hostages are worth more than the lives of Israeli hostages. Christ alive, I really have no words, that is an unbelievably simplistic attitude. So you are indeed claiming that Hamas should have taken as many hostages as Israel have. Out of interest, what 'value' are you placing on 30,000 dead Gazans?
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 11:58:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 11:58:25 GMT
I’m tired of anyone who says anything objective being told “yeh but Israel started it”. The Israelites were in this part of the world thousands of years ago remember. They were enslaved. Israel has a right to exist equally to Palestine. One is not better or has a greater claim than another. The fact remains, if Hamas don’t attack like they did on 7th October, Gaza isn’t levelled and millions of lives endangered. You obviously value a Palestinian hostage mire than an Israeli hostage. I see them as equal. Yes they were in that part of the World 3/4000 years ago along with many other nomadic tribes and conquerors. There is no conclusive archeological evidence for Exodus or that people that worshipped Yahweh were enslaved in Ancient Egypt.You either believe or you don't believe You defence of Netanyahu is based on a 10:1 Numbers Game, how does 30,000:1,400 fit into your equation? If course Israeli's and Palestinians lives are equal and deserve to live in Peace. The last great hope for a lasting and sustainable peace was the Oslo Accords. Video Footage of Netanyahu boasting of how he never accepted the Accords and how he went about dismantling it have appeared on this thread several times. Anyone that doesn't think Netanyahu is a Genocidal Maniac needs to give there Head a Wobble Unfortunately he isn't the only Nutjob there are plenty more on either side. Netanyahu is a lunatic. Comparisons to Hitler or Putin are wrong though. They never negotiate ceasefires or offer 10 to 1 in hostage swaps etc. Israelis need to get rid of their government and appoint a sensible leader. Palestinians (if they have the chance) must overthrow Hamas and appoint sensible leaders. The point is the obligations are on both sides and are not one sided. One sided will never work, particularly with the inequality of arms and military might.
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 12:01:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 12:01:48 GMT
I disagree. I don’t think the lives of Palestinian hostages are worth more than the lives of Israeli hostages. Christ alive, I really have no words, that is an unbelievably simplistic attitude. So you are indeed claiming that Hamas should have taken as many hostages as Israel have. Out of interest, what 'value' are you placing on 30,000 dead Gazans? Hamas shouldn’t have taken any hostages. Just as they shouldn’t have been launching rockets into Israel every day for decades. Israel shouldn’t be taking any hostages and should only arrest people on legitimate grounds. They shouldn’t be bombing Palestine and killing civilians. This isn’t the one sided conflict you portray. If Hamas had any concern for Palestinians they wouldn’t have committed the attacks that sparked the Israeli invasion. Perhaps I am wrong for not only seeing things from one side.
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 12:05:09 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 12:05:09 GMT
Which isn’t something I have said. P otentially giving 10 hostages for 1 of your own doesn’t strike me as something a genocidal maniac would do. That’s the point I am making. I am not going to try and justify Israel’s actions or the actions of Hamas. Neither can be justified whatsoever. The only way to move forward is to stop attributing blame and justifications for heinous actions. Is overseeing the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in the West Bank something a genocidal mania would do? Potentially. But a genocidal maniac also would have done it years ago and very quickly rather than very slowly over many, many years.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 28, 2024 12:13:51 GMT
So let’s talk about the West Bank instead then, whats the rationale for rogue settlers and the Israeli state continuing to kill and displace Palestinians creating more refugees, more lost lives and a land grab that defies the UN ruling? Bringing up the West Bank never suits the narrative as it shatters the myth that Israel are simply defending themselves from a terrorist organisation…… Which isn’t something I have said. Potentially giving 10 hostages for 1 of your own doesn’t strike me as something a genocidal maniac would do. That’s the point I am making. I am not going to try and justify Israel’s actions or the actions of Hamas. Neither can be justified whatsoever. The only way to move forward is to stop attributing blame and justifications for heinous actions. So, simply because Israel has more power to take more people, they should just keep them in prison without charge? Do Hamas need to run off and grab some more to even up the numbers? At the last hostage exchange, Netanyahu ramped up the number of civilians in the West Bank that he would detain without charge to replace those that he’d given away. If he’d have given 100:1, he’d have just found even more people to kidnap from a foreign land. Netanyahu isn’t a maniac. He is a monster. He’s probably quite happy to continue this onslaught. It’s a very timely distraction from his legal battles for corruption and his desperate internal struggle to turn Israel’s constitution to ash to evade them. Countries at war always give more power to a leader after all. In the last few years, the world has also seen a concerted shift to move away from oil. I wonder what sits underneath and surrounding Gaza? Israel have had a time pressure to reduce Gaza to rubble and now they have acted upon it.
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 12:14:34 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 28, 2024 12:14:34 GMT
Christ alive, I really have no words, that is an unbelievably simplistic attitude. So you are indeed claiming that Hamas should have taken as many hostages as Israel have. Out of interest, what 'value' are you placing on 30,000 dead Gazans? Hamas shouldn’t have taken any hostages. Just as they shouldn’t have been launching rockets into Israel every day for decades. Israel shouldn’t be taking any hostages and should only arrest people on legitimate grounds. They shouldn’t be bombing Palestine and killing civilians. This isn’t the one sided conflict you portray. If Hamas had any concern for Palestinians they wouldn’t have committed the attacks that sparked the Israeli invasion. Perhaps I am wrong for not only seeing things from one side. But we are where we are, we're not living in a fairy tale world of your 'should or shouldn't haves'. You've said that it isn't 'fair' that the Palestinians shouldn't be getting 10 hostages back for every one that they return. This is playground diplomacy. How many hostages do you think they'd be getting back at all if they hadn't taken any of their own?
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 12:37:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 12:37:01 GMT
Which isn’t something I have said. Potentially giving 10 hostages for 1 of your own doesn’t strike me as something a genocidal maniac would do. That’s the point I am making. I am not going to try and justify Israel’s actions or the actions of Hamas. Neither can be justified whatsoever. The only way to move forward is to stop attributing blame and justifications for heinous actions. So, simply because Israel has more power to take more people, they should just keep them in prison without charge? Do Hamas need to run off and grab some more to even up the numbers? At the last hostage exchange, Netanyahu ramped up the number of civilians in the West Bank that he would detain without charge to replace those that he’d given away. If he’d have given 100:1, he’d have just found even more people to kidnap from a foreign land. Netanyahu isn’t a maniac. He is a monster. He’s probably quite happy to continue this onslaught. It’s a very timely distraction from his legal battles for corruption and his desperate internal struggle to turn Israel’s constitution to ash to evade them. Countries at war always give more power to a leader after all. In the last few years, the world has also seen a concerted shift to move away from oil. I wonder what sits underneath and surrounding Gaza? Israel have had a time pressure to reduce Gaza to rubble and now they have acted upon it. No, they shouldn’t keep people in prison without charge. Why is one Israeli hostage worth 10 Palestinians? I don’t follow why asking the above question and pointing out that is odd from a monster such as Netanyahu is taken as I am suddenly saying Israel have clean hands and have done nothing wrong. I have made it very clear that both sides are at fault here and the vast majority of people suffering are completely innocent and the vast majority of them are Palestinian.
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 12:40:58 GMT
via mobile
Post by oggyoggy on Feb 28, 2024 12:40:58 GMT
Hamas shouldn’t have taken any hostages. Just as they shouldn’t have been launching rockets into Israel every day for decades. Israel shouldn’t be taking any hostages and should only arrest people on legitimate grounds. They shouldn’t be bombing Palestine and killing civilians. This isn’t the one sided conflict you portray. If Hamas had any concern for Palestinians they wouldn’t have committed the attacks that sparked the Israeli invasion. Perhaps I am wrong for not only seeing things from one side. But we are where we are, we're not living in a fairy tale world of your 'should or shouldn't haves'. You've said that it isn't 'fair' that the Palestinians shouldn't be getting 10 hostages back for every one that they return. This is playground diplomacy. How many hostages do you think they'd be getting back at all if they hadn't taken any of their own? Are you really justifying Hamas’ attack on 7 October and their taking of hostages as a means to get their own people released? If that was indeed their tactic and justification of mass murder and rape, that has backfired spectacularly for Hamas and Palestine. Repeating my comments once more, neither side should be taking any hostages and anyone detained by either side for illegitimate reasons (so have not be arrested and charged with a crime) should be immediately released without any conditions.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 28, 2024 12:43:18 GMT
So, simply because Israel has more power to take more people, they should just keep them in prison without charge? Do Hamas need to run off and grab some more to even up the numbers? At the last hostage exchange, Netanyahu ramped up the number of civilians in the West Bank that he would detain without charge to replace those that he’d given away. If he’d have given 100:1, he’d have just found even more people to kidnap from a foreign land. Netanyahu isn’t a maniac. He is a monster. He’s probably quite happy to continue this onslaught. It’s a very timely distraction from his legal battles for corruption and his desperate internal struggle to turn Israel’s constitution to ash to evade them. Countries at war always give more power to a leader after all. In the last few years, the world has also seen a concerted shift to move away from oil. I wonder what sits underneath and surrounding Gaza? Israel have had a time pressure to reduce Gaza to rubble and now they have acted upon it. No, they shouldn’t keep people in prison without charge. Why is one Israeli hostage worth 10 Palestinians? I don’t follow why asking the above question and pointing out that is odd from a monster such as Netanyahu is taken as I am suddenly saying Israel have clean hands and have done nothing wrong. I have made it very clear that both sides are at fault here and the vast majority of people suffering are completely innocent and the vast majority of them are Palestinian. Hostages are worth as much as someone is willing to trade for them. Palestinian hostages are worth less per person in a negotiation because Israel have so many Palestinians locked away without charge. Their value is then diluted and Hamas can ask for more knowing that they will get it (and in return, Israel will just run across to the West Bank and steal a few more children away from their homes). I don’t believe that you are saying that Israel are doing nothing wrong. However, I simply don’t believe that your hostage example is a valid one to put up in defence of Netanyahu not being a monster when he is leading a genocide and then simply taking back more people than he has released (making the whole “trade” a farce).
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 12:46:08 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 28, 2024 12:46:08 GMT
So, simply because Israel has more power to take more people, they should just keep them in prison without charge? Do Hamas need to run off and grab some more to even up the numbers? At the last hostage exchange, Netanyahu ramped up the number of civilians in the West Bank that he would detain without charge to replace those that he’d given away. If he’d have given 100:1, he’d have just found even more people to kidnap from a foreign land. Netanyahu isn’t a maniac. He is a monster. He’s probably quite happy to continue this onslaught. It’s a very timely distraction from his legal battles for corruption and his desperate internal struggle to turn Israel’s constitution to ash to evade them. Countries at war always give more power to a leader after all. In the last few years, the world has also seen a concerted shift to move away from oil. I wonder what sits underneath and surrounding Gaza? Israel have had a time pressure to reduce Gaza to rubble and now they have acted upon it. No, they shouldn’t keep people in prison without charge. Why is one Israeli hostage worth 10 Palestinians? I don’t follow why asking the above question and pointing out that is odd from a monster such as Netanyahu is taken as I am suddenly saying Israel have clean hands and have done nothing wrong. I have made it very clear that both sides are at fault here and the vast majority of people suffering are completely innocent and the vast majority of them are Palestinian. Isn't it just a question of ratios of Prisoners being held and not comparatively worth of human beings? Isn't the 10:1 ratio arrived at to ensure each side gets ALL its own people back? I don't know the comparative numbers but presume Israel has roughly 10 times the number of hostages/ Prisoners as Hamas.
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 28, 2024 12:58:41 GMT
So, simply because Israel has more power to take more people, they should just keep them in prison without charge? Do Hamas need to run off and grab some more to even up the numbers? At the last hostage exchange, Netanyahu ramped up the number of civilians in the West Bank that he would detain without charge to replace those that he’d given away. If he’d have given 100:1, he’d have just found even more people to kidnap from a foreign land. Netanyahu isn’t a maniac. He is a monster. He’s probably quite happy to continue this onslaught. It’s a very timely distraction from his legal battles for corruption and his desperate internal struggle to turn Israel’s constitution to ash to evade them. Countries at war always give more power to a leader after all. In the last few years, the world has also seen a concerted shift to move away from oil. I wonder what sits underneath and surrounding Gaza? Israel have had a time pressure to reduce Gaza to rubble and now they have acted upon it. No, they shouldn’t keep people in prison without charge. Why is one Israeli hostage worth 10 Palestinians? I don’t follow why asking the above question and pointing out that is odd from a monster such as Netanyahu is taken as I am suddenly saying Israel have clean hands and have done nothing wrong. I have made it very clear that both sides are at fault here and the vast majority of people suffering are completely innocent and the vast majority of them are Palestinian. If Israel hadn’t acted as genocidal fuckwits for the last seventy odd years Than there would of been no need and no support for hamas to exist
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 28, 2024 12:59:08 GMT
But we are where we are, we're not living in a fairy tale world of your 'should or shouldn't haves'. You've said that it isn't 'fair' that the Palestinians shouldn't be getting 10 hostages back for every one that they return. This is playground diplomacy. How many hostages do you think they'd be getting back at all if they hadn't taken any of their own? Are you really justifying Hamas’ attack on 7 October and their taking of hostages as a means to get their own people released? If that was indeed their tactic and justification of mass murder and rape, that has backfired spectacularly for Hamas and Palestine. Repeating my comments once more, neither side should be taking any hostages and anyone detained by either side for illegitimate reasons (so have not be arrested and charged with a crime) should be immediately released without any conditions. For everyone detained to be immediately released, we're going to need a ratio of at LEAST 10:1. Is it making sense now?
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 12:59:32 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 28, 2024 12:59:32 GMT
No, they shouldn’t keep people in prison without charge. Why is one Israeli hostage worth 10 Palestinians? I don’t follow why asking the above question and pointing out that is odd from a monster such as Netanyahu is taken as I am suddenly saying Israel have clean hands and have done nothing wrong. I have made it very clear that both sides are at fault here and the vast majority of people suffering are completely innocent and the vast majority of them are Palestinian. Isn't it just a question of ratios of Prisoners being held and not comparatively worth of human beings? Isn't the 10:1 ratio arrived at to ensure each side gets ALL its own people back? I don't know the comparative numbers but presume Israel has roughly 10 times the number of hostages/ Prisoners as Hamas. Exactly.
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Israel
Feb 28, 2024 12:59:54 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 28, 2024 12:59:54 GMT
No, they shouldn’t keep people in prison without charge. Why is one Israeli hostage worth 10 Palestinians? I don’t follow why asking the above question and pointing out that is odd from a monster such as Netanyahu is taken as I am suddenly saying Israel have clean hands and have done nothing wrong. I have made it very clear that both sides are at fault here and the vast majority of people suffering are completely innocent and the vast majority of them are Palestinian. If Israel hadn’t acted as genocidal fuckwits for the last seventy odd years Than there would of been no need and no support for hamas to exist Exactly.
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Post by dutchstokie on Feb 28, 2024 13:33:29 GMT
This post is not taking sides at all but is just an observation. The draft terms of a ceasefire are for Israel to release Palestinian prisoners at a ratio of 10:1 for Israeli hostages that include women, children under 19, elderly over 50 and the sick. Why are Hamas still keeping children, the sick and elderly hostage? Absolutely inexcusable. Actually, why did they take any hostages whatsoever and provoke this barbaric response which they surely knew it would? It is a reminder that both sides are culpable and neither come with clean hands (unlike I suspect 99.9% who have died or been taken hostage since 7 October). We have no idea why or on what grounds the Palestinians prisoners being released were arrested in the first place, but worst case they have done nothing wrong whatsoever, something we can say with absolute certainty about each and every hostage. So why the 10:1 ratio? Now we don’t know if those are the final terms of course. But this does not strike me as a deal brokered by a genocidal maniac that Netanyahu has come across as. Quite the contrary. This isn't taking sides either but you are looking through the Telescope from the wrong end The numbers are fluid and difficult to verify but best estimates are 2.3 M Gazans are being held in an open Prison in Gaza now turned to rubble from which before 7th October they had very limited access/permission from Israeli Authorities to leave the Gaza Strip Since the 1967 War and Israeli occupation of West Bank and East Jerusalem and the construction of fencing to enclose Gaza as an Open Prison over 1 Million Palestinians have been imprisoned by Israel the vast majority without charge. That it 4 out of 10 Palestinian Men spend some period of time in an Israeli Prison www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/8/why-are-so-many-palestinian-prisoners-in-israeli-jailsThere are about 8,000 Palestinians held in Israeli detention, the vast majority from West Bank and East Jerusalem of which about 3,000 are held without charge or as it call "Administrative Detention" of these several hundred are children and an equal number of women. At the last Hostage exchange the vast majority of Palestinians released were these women and children but since then triple that amount have been "Administratively Detained" www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/29/jailed-without-charge-how-israel-holds-thousands-of-palestinian-prisonerswww.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/21/more-than-8000-palestinians-in-israeli-jails-rights-groups-sayI'm Fucking tired of people saying this conflict started on 7th October 2023 Its a proper sad state of affairs and coupled with the fact that there has been unrest for decades in the region, probably brings us to the conclusion that there will probably never ever be peace in the region..... as hard as it is to say. And yet innocent people suffer the most...... Everyone on here wishes peace in the region...... but how do you deliver rationale to these leaders...?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 28, 2024 17:51:20 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 28, 2024 18:17:46 GMT
Is there a option on the 2024 dead pool thread to add a name as I’m beginning to think old macron is getting on dodgy ground inside the last year he’s managed to fuck off half of Africa the last week nato putin and now Mosad And his farmers are a tad cross also
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