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Israel
Sept 3, 2024 12:24:43 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 3, 2024 12:24:43 GMT
Is Hizbollah and Hamas still seen as the bad terrorist guys and Israel as the friendly peace seeking nation, in England? Mostly only in the eyes of Zionists and those bought and paid for
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 3, 2024 12:25:08 GMT
I'm surprised no one has yet commented on the Government decision to suspend some Arms Export Licenses to Israel Bibi's reaction was predictable In many ways the decision is symbolic as by all accounts UK doesn't supply Israel with a significant amount of Arms but the Official reason given is highly significant because of a “clear risk” they may be used to commit or facilitate a serious violation of international humanitarian law.
This places a huge spotlight on US who supply the vast majority of Arms to Israel if they continue to reach a different conclusion to UK on the potential use of those Arms It would only be someone obtuse that would deny that this is not a major change of Policy by the Labour Government not only towards Israel but it's alignment with US as i predicted when Richard Hermer was appointed Attorney General. To reach any other conclusion would have made a mockery of what Labour said in opposition and Hermer said as an independent Lawyer www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/sep/02/uk-suspends-30-arms-export-licences-to-israel-after-reviewIt's on the Starmer thread mate. And agreed, the wording specifically, is extremely significant.
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Post by wannabee on Sept 3, 2024 12:27:00 GMT
Pretty sure Oggy and Waga have just been discussing it. I don't think it's a major change of policy and alignment towards Israel or US personally. A welcome change but banning less than 10% of arms sales sounds more performative in nature rather than due to concerns about the war crimes said weapons are used for. An F35 which was partially made in the UK killed 90 civillians in Gaza yesterday. Those F35s are not part of the ban. I thought we didn’t sell the F35 parts to Israel? I don’t know the law well enough, but the bans in force are down to a review of the legal position. Ultimately nothing we do will make a difference on the ground in Gaza or Israel. UK doesn't sell F35S Components to Israel UK sell some F35S Components to Lockheed who use those components in some F35S Variants Lockheed sells F35S to Israel Lockheed sells F35S to Australia Belgium Finland Japan Italy South Korea Netherlands Norway Denmark Poland Turkey and Singapore
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Post by gawa on Sept 3, 2024 12:35:18 GMT
Pretty sure Oggy and Waga have just been discussing it. I don't think it's a major change of policy and alignment towards Israel or US personally. A welcome change but banning less than 10% of arms sales sounds more performative in nature rather than due to concerns about the war crimes said weapons are used for. An F35 which was partially made in the UK killed 90 civillians in Gaza yesterday. Those F35s are not part of the ban. I must catch up with this conversation between Oggy and Waga on Arms Sales to Israel as it's not on Israel thread Your response is the least surprising to me in acknowledging a shift in Government Policy by Labour I believe you are referring to a report i believe from a Danish Aid Agency that an F35 may have been involved in a attack on a Refugee Camp. Even if the report turns out to be true your categoric statement is dubious because UK components are used in some F35s not all as there are many variants and although UK is a Tier 1 Supplier it is by no means single sourced on the components it supplies. So at best the connection if any and if it occurred is tenuous at best. By its nature the Defence Industry is highly secretive of its manufacturing footprint and components and I'm content that the review that was ordered by Lammy on his first day in office has come to a conclusion on information far more comprehensive than your speculation Is this not the discussion here in the Israel thread? What do you think they're discussing instead? The lib dems on the right side of history with the Iraq war, and they have been calling for a suspension of arms sales to Israel since early April. Both the Tories and Labour supported the Iraq invasion, and Labour have only today decided to suspend arms sales to Israel. The tory position is to continue arms sales to Israel. 30 out of 310 arms export sales Typical Labour a little candy floss trying to confuse those of limited intelligence I’m sure yourself has seen through this charade and were going to mention it in your next post Though only a few I suppose it’s a start and won’t upset starmer’s Zionist lackeys I'm not sure on the ins and outs of F35s but I stand with Amnesty UK at their statement. I guess I'm just a bit more cynical than you Wannabee. When the Labour leadership and NEC have a very recent history of overstating and weaponising antisemetism against members. When some of those MPs were also attending secret meetings with the CIA too. When spies describe Luke Akehurst as a great guy and good friend, who also wears t shirts proudly declaring himself as a zionsit shit lord. And when 40% of MPs are members of "friends of israel" and most of starmers cabinet receive significant donations from Israel. And then when most of them do the media rounds justifying israels actions as a "right to defend itself" ... then stopping less than 10% of arms sales isn't something I see as a significant change. Again I'm more cynical than yourself but feels a bit more of "lets make it look like we're changing position". I doubt the influence of the Israel lobby is going to change, neither will the paid holidays to Israel for many MPs and I also doubt the donations which are totalling in the hundreds of thousands will dry up anytime soon. Nor will the weaponisation of antisemetism against ideological opponents or the "wrong types of jew". Like I said though... I'm maybe just a bit more cynical than most.
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Israel
Sept 3, 2024 12:35:19 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 3, 2024 12:35:19 GMT
I thought we didn’t sell the F35 parts to Israel? I don’t know the law well enough, but the bans in force are down to a review of the legal position. Ultimately nothing we do will make a difference on the ground in Gaza or Israel. UK doesn't sell F35S Components to Israel UK sell some F35S Components to Lockheed who use those components in some F35S Variants Lockheed sells F35S to Israel Lockheed sells F35S to Australia Belgium Finland Japan Italy South Korea Netherlands Norway Denmark Poland Turkey and Singapore Thank you for that I’ll sleep much easier tonight knowing that the uk are not directly complicit in the murders of thousands of babies and children
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Israel
Sept 3, 2024 12:48:29 GMT
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Post by musik on Sept 3, 2024 12:48:29 GMT
Is Hizbollah and Hamas still seen as the bad terrorist guys and Israel as the friendly peace seeking nation, in England? Mostly only in the eyes of Zionists and those bought and paid for Left wing? They're the loud ones up here. I just want the war to end.
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Post by wannabee on Sept 3, 2024 12:55:38 GMT
UK doesn't sell F35S Components to Israel UK sell some F35S Components to Lockheed who use those components in some F35S Variants Lockheed sells F35S to Israel Lockheed sells F35S to Australia Belgium Finland Japan Italy South Korea Netherlands Norway Denmark Poland Turkey and Singapore Thank you for that I’ll sleep much easier tonight knowing that the uk are not directly complicit in the murders of thousands of babies and children Don't be such an ass Waga i don't support what's going on and has been going on in that region for 75 years anymore than you do. This shit didn't start on Oct 7 A question was asked and as a lot of misinformation is posted on here about various things i was compelled to answer the question If people think those 75 years of injustice are going to be overturned in one fell swoop they are extremely naive A first step from a UK perspective is having a Government that is willing to try and bring about change. The US are the only ones that can bring about substantial change and hold sufficient influence Labours break from the Party Line and the stated reasons they gave for diverging from US Policy places a lot of International pressure on US to react. I can understand the argument the action is limited but that is to miss the significance which is many multiples Some may miss that because they don't understand, others because they are too embittered.
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 3, 2024 15:11:42 GMT
Did anyone see last night’s brilliant interview on Newsnight with a cousin of one of the 6 hostages killed the other day? He absolutely laid into Netanyahu, blaming him for his cousin’s murder. Powerful stuff, and there seems to be an ever increasing anger amongst Israelis against their leader. Let’s hope the pressure on him continues.
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Israel
Sept 3, 2024 15:29:23 GMT
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Post by musik on Sept 3, 2024 15:29:23 GMT
He absolutely laid into Netanyahu, blaming him for his cousin’s murder. Netanyahu held his speech on TV here yesterday, and said just about that and apologised. If he killed him there must be a trial?
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Israel
Sept 3, 2024 16:31:36 GMT
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musik likes this
Post by oggyoggy on Sept 3, 2024 16:31:36 GMT
He absolutely laid into Netanyahu, blaming him for his cousin’s murder. Netanyahu held his speech on TV here yesterday, and said just about that and apologised. If he killed him there must be a trial? The blame was that Netanyahu could have agreed terms for the release of hostages but because he wants the war to continue, he chose not to, effectively leaving hostages to die. Netanyahu didn’t pull the trigger himself.
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Post by gawa on Sept 3, 2024 17:07:59 GMT
Just some casual racism.
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Israel
Sept 3, 2024 17:14:10 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 3, 2024 17:14:10 GMT
Netanyahu held his speech on TV here yesterday, and said just about that and apologised. If he killed him there must be a trial? The blame was that Netanyahu could have agreed terms for the release of hostages but because he wants the war to continue, he chose not to, effectively leaving hostages to die. Netanyahu didn’t pull the trigger himself. He might as well have
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Israel
Sept 3, 2024 18:30:35 GMT
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Sept 3, 2024 18:30:35 GMT
I'm hoping the downfall of Netanyahu is like that of Mussolini. OS. Surely our new censorship state doesn't allow such rhetoric 😉😂
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Israel
Sept 3, 2024 18:51:56 GMT
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Sept 3, 2024 18:51:56 GMT
The blame was that Netanyahu could have agreed terms for the release of hostages but because he wants the war to continue, he chose not to, effectively leaving hostages to die. Netanyahu didn’t pull the trigger himself. He might as well have Yahya Sinwar is a reasonable guy though right?
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Israel
Sept 3, 2024 19:19:03 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 3, 2024 19:19:03 GMT
Yahya Sinwar is a reasonable guy though right? The guy interviewed had strong words for him too. But in his mind, as an Israeli, he blamed Netanyahu because he as leader of his nation is ultimately responsible for keeping his citizens safe.
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Israel
Sept 3, 2024 20:08:42 GMT
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Post by musik on Sept 3, 2024 20:08:42 GMT
Netanyahu held his speech on TV here yesterday, and said just about that and apologised. If he killed him there must be a trial? The blame was that Netanyahu could have agreed terms for the release of hostages but because he wants the war to continue, he chose not to, effectively leaving hostages to die. Netanyahu didn’t pull the trigger himself. Ok, thanks, that's explains it, sacrifices.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 7, 2024 14:33:02 GMT
Psychopathy?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 7, 2024 14:44:41 GMT
Raping prisoners with steel bars is "doing holy work"?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 7, 2024 22:57:12 GMT
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Israel
Sept 8, 2024 11:40:34 GMT
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Post by musik on Sept 8, 2024 11:40:34 GMT
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Israel
Sept 8, 2024 11:50:39 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 8, 2024 11:50:39 GMT
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 8, 2024 12:14:09 GMT
Any chance of an Israel 2 thread for those who want to have a say or opinion?
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Post by roylandstoke on Sept 8, 2024 13:28:15 GMT
Raping prisoners with steel bars is "doing holy work"? Our country’s continued support of the evil regime that commits these crimes against humanity, allows, and even encourages them to go even further.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 8, 2024 13:48:32 GMT
Any chance of an Israel 2 thread for those who want to have a say or opinion? Or just give your opinion, as many people have on many occasions on this thread……
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Israel
Sept 8, 2024 15:09:37 GMT
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 8, 2024 15:09:37 GMT
Any chance of an Israel 2 thread for those who want to have a say or opinion? Or just give your opinion, as many people have on many occasions on this thread…… And told they're wrong
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 8, 2024 15:41:50 GMT
Or just give your opinion, as many people have on many occasions on this thread…… And told they're wrong "This is my opinion" "I think you're wrong" "Well I think I'm right because of X,Y,Z" "Well I disagree because of X,Y,Z" That's just debate isn't it? There seems to be a number of people of the EE side of the board (not you necessarily) who whine about posts from X, mention that their opinions are being shot down when often it's just people making a counterargument. It's pretty simple for me, if a thread interests you and you want to debate then do so, if something doesn't then move on. Obviously bullying, abuse etc is a different story but I really don't understand what the issue is most of the time?
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Israel
Sept 8, 2024 16:42:09 GMT
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Post by musik on Sept 8, 2024 16:42:09 GMT
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Israel
Sept 8, 2024 16:44:08 GMT
Post by mrcoke on Sept 8, 2024 16:44:08 GMT
Any chance of an Israel 2 thread for those who want to have a say or opinion? Brave post on this thread. It has been repeatedly stated on this thread that the first casualty in war is the truth and has been endlessly proven on this thread with posts from uncorroborated sources. There is a huge propaganda battle in progress. I attended a prayer conference yesterday and the guest speakers for the afternoon session were Christian Friends of Israel. They enumerated much that does not get reported in the media but openly admitted that whilst Israel may be winning the war, it is losing the world propaganda war. Much of the aid going to Gaza is funding Hamas extending the war and not going to those that need it. World Christians are doing as much aid or more for the Palestinians than the Arab world. Many Arab countries' governments like Saudi Arabia want to get rid of Arab terrorist organizations, which they see as a threat to their regimes, as much as the West. www.cfi.org.uk/who-we-areThe Labour government suspension of 10% of arms export licences to Israel only : 1. Fails to appease those who support Palestinians 2. Annoys our main ally the US. 3. Makes not the slightest difference to Israel, but 4. Angers the Israeli government who supplies us with much more defence arms for the UK including the high tech equipment that goes into the latest Challenger tank.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 8, 2024 16:46:54 GMT
Any chance of an Israel 2 thread for those who want to have a say or opinion? Brave post on this thread. It has been repeatedly stated on this thread that the first casualty in war is the truth and has been endlessly proven on this thread with posts from uncorroborated sources. There is a huge propaganda battle in progress. I attended a prayer conference yesterday and the guest speakers for the afternoon session were Christian Friends of Israel. They enumerated much that does not get reported in the media but openly admitted that whilst Israel may be winning the war, it is losing the world propaganda war. Much of the aid going to Gaza is funding Hamas extending the war and not going to those that need it. World Christians are doing as much aid or more for the Palestinians than the Arab world. Many Arab countries' governments like Saudi Arabia want to get rid of Arab terrorist organizations, which they see as a threat to their regimes, as much as the West. www.cfi.org.uk/who-we-areThe Labour government suspension of 10% of arms export licences to Israel only : 1. Fails to appease those who support Palestinians 2. Annoys our main ally the US. 3. Makes not the slightest difference to Israel, but 4. Angers the Israeli government who supplies us with much more defence arms for the UK including the high tech equipment that goes into the latest Challenger tank. So are you suggesting we shouldn't have suspended sales to Israel then, or that we were right to do so?
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 8, 2024 18:41:29 GMT
Brave post on this thread. It has been repeatedly stated on this thread that the first casualty in war is the truth and has been endlessly proven on this thread with posts from uncorroborated sources. There is a huge propaganda battle in progress. I attended a prayer conference yesterday and the guest speakers for the afternoon session were Christian Friends of Israel. They enumerated much that does not get reported in the media but openly admitted that whilst Israel may be winning the war, it is losing the world propaganda war. Much of the aid going to Gaza is funding Hamas extending the war and not going to those that need it. World Christians are doing as much aid or more for the Palestinians than the Arab world. Many Arab countries' governments like Saudi Arabia want to get rid of Arab terrorist organizations, which they see as a threat to their regimes, as much as the West. www.cfi.org.uk/who-we-areThe Labour government suspension of 10% of arms export licences to Israel only : 1. Fails to appease those who support Palestinians 2. Annoys our main ally the US. 3. Makes not the slightest difference to Israel, but 4. Angers the Israeli government who supplies us with much more defence arms for the UK including the high tech equipment that goes into the latest Challenger tank. So are you suggesting we shouldn't have suspended sales to Israel then, or that we were right to do so? I am not itk about secret agreements between the UK and Israel governments who may have agreed things behind closed doors. But if Starmer's action risks the defence of the UK it is wrong to suspend arms sales to Israel, on whom we are more dependant than Israel is on the UK. UK defence is #1 priority. But its more likely they had a quiet word about having to make a gesture. www.bicom.org.uk/analysis/understanding-israel-uk-weapons-trade/The whole situation is very much more complicated than the public are aware of; none of us know what is said between governments. Maybe Saudi Arabia have demanded a token gesture from Starmer as we sell 24 times more arms to them than Israel. The UK is currently seeking a trade deal with the Gulf states who may want the UK to take some action. Diplomacy is a complicated and dirty business. As Claude Rains said in "Lawrence of Arabia": " Frankly, I wish I'd stayed in Tunbridge Wells."
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