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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 6:20:48 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 15, 2024 6:20:48 GMT
Wannabee, doesn't it highlight a deeper problem when 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants, UK citizens, still find it justifiable to carry out acts of terrorism, killing children? I guess it is the UK's fault, perhaps the children who died in the Manchester bombing, that some form of integration hasn't taken place? I think it may have a lot to do with Colonisation Not something the current UK Population have any responsibility for but it is an inherited legacy The Colonisers made no effort to integrate with the Population of the Countries they Colonised. On the contrary it was vehemently discouraged as a means to control the local population by displaying their superiority, therefore a divine right to rule. The legacy of Colonisation has given a "right of passage" to many former Colonies e.g. India, HK, West Indies, Irish etc. Most took the opportunity as Economic Migrants and were surprised to be greeted with hostility so it was unsurprising they congregated within homogeneous Communities They may have emigrated for Economic reasons but they were not divorced from events in their homeland reinforced by lack of integration led to split loyalties The first mass immigration to UK were the Protestant Hugeunots persecuted in France for their Religion. They were made very welcome. About the same time the Protestant Palatines from the German Rhineland, who I happen to be descended from, were not welcomed. The next major influx were the Jews escaping from Pogroms in Europe equally unwelcomed except by the working class in the East End of London which makes a mockery of Labour's current machinations. The next wave were the Irish and Caribbeans who were equally unwelcome. Is it any wonder that each of these diverse Ethnic Groups retreated to create their own communities within Today we have Ukrainians very welcome Refugees from other War Torn Countries like Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen etc not so much. I'm not attempting to reason why there were different reactions just stating there were. Some Groups have integrated more than others again I'm not going to reason why Undoubtedly each Group has had a positive effect on the UK but maybe it takes time for that to manifest. I thought it had more directly to do with the us/allies invasion of Libya and ISIS, rather than the previous Italianand European colonialism. I don't think your explanation would give much comfort to the families of victims. Perhaps the UK should consider severely curbing immigration given the risk to our citizens. Why risk the blowing up of children and grandchildren. I think if it happens to your own children, it would focus your mind.As you say the current generation have nothing to do with Colonialism and have a completely different outlook. We have a duty to protect them..We have enough problems. There is a doubt that "undoubtedly " each group has had a positive effect. Depends how it is measured. We could be storing up future problems.
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Post by andystokey on Feb 15, 2024 8:22:06 GMT
It's the natives which worry me where I live. We don't have anywhere near as many immigrants though compared to the rest of the UK so of course it will be a different landscape where I live. We still have paramilitaries and stuff to contend with here. The ones in my local area do make me laugh as some of them have jumped on the anti immigration train with posters through the estate pretty much saying immigrants aren't safe in this area. Reason it makes me laugh is its paramilitaries putting this stuff up. One of the main ones behind it is just back from a 2 year stretch after beating the fuck out of his wife in the middle of the street. Him? Welcomed back with open arms. Another fella in the estate murdered an elderly man in his flat last year and drove to a local lake and dumped the body before being stopped by police after someone reported suspicious activity. Some graffiti and posts on local Facebook went up about this scum bag. All taken down and hidden as if it never happened. Why? He's in paramilitaries so they look after their own. Another one recently was a 20 year old man took advantage of a 15 year old girl with special needs and abused her. Again had paramilitary links and paid them money to stay living in the estate. We've had another 3 murders on top of the above in the last 18 months in the estate too. Makes me fucking laugh so much that these lot spam local Facebook groups and post signs on lampposts about immigrants being a danger and a threat. Yet the only ones murdering, raping and beating women are all white natives belonging to paramilitaries who are welcomed with open arms no matter what they do. I now where I live is unique and the same doesn't go for the rest of the uk but it winds me up. I'd rather have a load of immigrants than these people who think they're above the law and run our estates. At least if I've a problem with an immigrant I can tackle it head on directly with them. With these paramilitaries though you can't do anything and the police won't either. Just got to keep your head down and your mouth shut or else you and your family could be the next ones being terrorised. We've more than enough scum in our native population i agree. But my point is hundreds of people who are coming in illegally and then disappearing into the shadows. And I will assure you there is plenty of scum amongst them as well. It won't be a good look if we start getting a big uptick in some of these characters committing Manchester arena type atrocities. And I dread to think what problems the USA is building up for itself with 7m border crossings this last 3 or so years.
We have borders for a reason. Isn't America built on hundreds of millions of immigrants pouring in for more than 200 years?
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 8:31:51 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 15, 2024 8:31:51 GMT
We've more than enough scum in our native population i agree. But my point is hundreds of people who are coming in illegally and then disappearing into the shadows. And I will assure you there is plenty of scum amongst them as well. It won't be a good look if we start getting a big uptick in some of these characters committing Manchester arena type atrocities. And I dread to think what problems the USA is building up for itself with 7m border crossings this last 3 or so years.
We have borders for a reason. Isn't America built on hundreds of millions of immigrants pouring in for more than 200 years? Those immigrants destroyed the lives of the indigenous native American population. Indeed immigration has built what we perceive to be the modern America. But the world has changed. Populations have grown excessively. The nation states have developed. Consumption of resources has increased. International relations are different. When people talk about controlling borders and populations now, they are talking about the world as it stands now ( very much a multicultural USA and UK). To want to control immigration now doesn't mean that a person hates those immigrants of the past who make up part of our multicultural society, as British citizens. The fact that immigration built the countries as they stand today has little bearing on what we should do in the future. Burning coal served the UK well in the past. So did invading other countries. We should not do the same in the future.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 15, 2024 8:39:33 GMT
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 9:00:16 GMT
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 15, 2024 9:00:16 GMT
We've more than enough scum in our native population i agree. But my point is hundreds of people who are coming in illegally and then disappearing into the shadows. And I will assure you there is plenty of scum amongst them as well. It won't be a good look if we start getting a big uptick in some of these characters committing Manchester arena type atrocities. And I dread to think what problems the USA is building up for itself with 7m border crossings this last 3 or so years.
We have borders for a reason. Isn't America built on hundreds of millions of immigrants pouring in for more than 200 years? Nothing wrong with documented legal migration. Do you believe borders serve a purpose?
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 9:08:09 GMT
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Post by andystokey on Feb 15, 2024 9:08:09 GMT
Isn't America built on hundreds of millions of immigrants pouring in for more than 200 years? Those immigrants destroyed the lives of the indigenous native American population. Indeed immigration has built what we perceive to be the modern America. But the world has changed. Populations have grown excessively. The nation states have developed. Consumption of resources has increased. International relations are different. When people talk about controlling borders and populations now, they are talking about the world as it stands now ( very much a multicultural USA and UK). To want to control immigration now doesn't mean that a person hates those immigrants of the past who make up part of our multicultural society, as British citizens. The fact that immigration built the countries as they stand today has little bearing on what we should do in the future. Burning coal served the UK well in the past. So did invading other countries. We should not do the same in the future. Fastest growing economy in the world still by some distance. Their policy seems to be doing them just fine right now was my point.
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 9:10:55 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 15, 2024 9:10:55 GMT
Those immigrants destroyed the lives of the indigenous native American population. Indeed immigration has built what we perceive to be the modern America. But the world has changed. Populations have grown excessively. The nation states have developed. Consumption of resources has increased. International relations are different. When people talk about controlling borders and populations now, they are talking about the world as it stands now ( very much a multicultural USA and UK). To want to control immigration now doesn't mean that a person hates those immigrants of the past who make up part of our multicultural society, as British citizens. The fact that immigration built the countries as they stand today has little bearing on what we should do in the future. Burning coal served the UK well in the past. So did invading other countries. We should not do the same in the future. Fastest growing economy in the world still by some distance. Their policy seems to be doing them just fine right now was my point. It isn't all about the economy. The Manchester bombings had nothing to do with the economy. Israel / Hamas has more to with identity/ ethnicity/ culture/ sovereignty and independence
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Post by andystokey on Feb 15, 2024 9:14:12 GMT
Isn't America built on hundreds of millions of immigrants pouring in for more than 200 years? Nothing wrong with documented legal migration. Do you believe borders serve a purpose? I think the British sense of a border as an island is very different to a European one. I guess it depends why they are being drawn and for whom. It hasn't helped the Palestinians having a legally agreed border with Isreal. They have simply ignored the concept for years in one direction whilst enforcement is brutal in the other direction.
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 9:20:09 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 15, 2024 9:20:09 GMT
Nothing wrong with documented legal migration. Do you believe borders serve a purpose? I think the British sense of a border as an island is very different to a European one. I guess it depends why they are being drawn and for whom. It hasn't helped the Palestinians having a legally agreed border with Isreal. They have simply ignored the concept for years in one direction whilst enforcement is brutal in the other direction. Agreed Andy, I've always said that free movement makes more sense on Mainland Europe. In my opinion, we have an advantage of being an island, if we had any leadership and long-term vision , instead of 4 or 5 year " let's get ourselves reelected " short term plans. But , back to what we were talking about, IMO immigration per se isn't always a good thing and needs to be handled carefully in the modern world, irrespective of the past. For instance the figures for world population growth for the 20C are frightening. I think water will increasingly be a threatened resource.
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 9:21:20 GMT
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 15, 2024 9:21:20 GMT
Nothing wrong with documented legal migration. Do you believe borders serve a purpose? I think the British sense of a border as an island is very different to a European one. I guess it depends why they are being drawn and for whom. It hasn't helped the Palestinians having a legally agreed border with Isreal. They have simply ignored the concept for years in one direction whilst enforcement is brutal in the other direction. Going back to your comment about immigration into the USA over the last 200 years, the issue you've got is the world population in 1800 was barely 1 billion. You now have 8 billion. Borders are vital. Doesn't mean immigration is a bad thing. Quite the opposite in our case in terms of NHS employment for example. But we need to know who they all are that's for certain.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 15, 2024 11:04:28 GMT
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 15, 2024 11:18:45 GMT
So someone declaring 'Free Plaestine' is recorded as being a antisemitic incident. I'm not saying it isn't always but this is a very grey area to say the least. I wonder if shouting a pro Israel message would be regarded as Islamophobic? I think context is everything, and the figures tell us very little, but of course they will be the headline and then used for its various purposes.
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 11:19:47 GMT
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 15, 2024 11:19:47 GMT
Absolutely shocking really 😔
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 15, 2024 11:26:30 GMT
Predictable by the increasing weaponising of antisemitism sadly BJR.
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 11:59:29 GMT
Post by wannabee on Feb 15, 2024 11:59:29 GMT
I think it may have a lot to do with Colonisation Not something the current UK Population have any responsibility for but it is an inherited legacy The Colonisers made no effort to integrate with the Population of the Countries they Colonised. On the contrary it was vehemently discouraged as a means to control the local population by displaying their superiority, therefore a divine right to rule. The legacy of Colonisation has given a "right of passage" to many former Colonies e.g. India, HK, West Indies, Irish etc. Most took the opportunity as Economic Migrants and were surprised to be greeted with hostility so it was unsurprising they congregated within homogeneous Communities They may have emigrated for Economic reasons but they were not divorced from events in their homeland reinforced by lack of integration led to split loyalties The first mass immigration to UK were the Protestant Hugeunots persecuted in France for their Religion. They were made very welcome. About the same time the Protestant Palatines from the German Rhineland, who I happen to be descended from, were not welcomed. The next major influx were the Jews escaping from Pogroms in Europe equally unwelcomed except by the working class in the East End of London which makes a mockery of Labour's current machinations. The next wave were the Irish and Caribbeans who were equally unwelcome. Is it any wonder that each of these diverse Ethnic Groups retreated to create their own communities within Today we have Ukrainians very welcome Refugees from other War Torn Countries like Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen etc not so much. I'm not attempting to reason why there were different reactions just stating there were. Some Groups have integrated more than others again I'm not going to reason why Undoubtedly each Group has had a positive effect on the UK but maybe it takes time for that to manifest. I thought it had more directly to do with the us/allies invasion of Libya and ISIS, rather than the previous Italianand European colonialism. I don't think your explanation would give much comfort to the families of victims. Perhaps the UK should consider severely curbing immigration given the risk to our citizens. Why risk the blowing up of children and grandchildren. I think if it happens to your own children, it would focus your mind.As you say the current generation have nothing to do with Colonialism and have a completely different outlook. We have a duty to protect them..We have enough problems. There is a doubt that "undoubtedly " each group has had a positive effect. Depends how it is measured. We could be storing up future problems. I was speaking in a General sense but In the case of the Manchester Bomber yes it was US and UK via NATO deciding that Regime Change, of Gaddafi, was required. Although most would agree with the decision, including the Manchester Bomber, there can be unintended consequences if you meddle in the affairs of other Countries. Yes the Iraq War where the US and UK led "the Coalition of the Willing" to remove the WMD that Saddam didn't have created the conditions for ISIS to emerge and subsequently the War in Syria where the Manchester Bomber was radicalised. ISIS ideology was an latent ancient one for the establishment of a Muslim Caliphate and these two events helped to spread that ideology within the Muslim World and Globally What I meant by the current Citizens of UK was they are not responsible for Colonisation. Governments past and present are and that legacy is inherited. In today's conflicts UK has strongly come down on the side of Israel and Ukraine and provided weapons to both. I'm not judging here whether it's the right choice just that it's a fact. Would you rule out a Terrorist attach in UK sometime in the future by a disgruntled Palestinian or Russian who may have lost Family and blames UK, I wouldn't. The UK has the largest footprint Globally simply because it historically had the largest Empire. Government are keen to maintain that footprint on one level via The Commonwealth of Nations which now includes some Countries that were never Colonised E.g. Rwanda. The British Monarch is it's figurehead but the reason Government wish to maintain it is Influence and Trade. Trade UK/Commonwealth declined on UK joining EEC. Since Brexit UK is trying to reinvigorate especially with India in the form of a Trade Deal. One of the main sticking points in negotiations is the amount of Visas UK will grant India. There is always quid pro quo in Global matters. We saw quite recent clashes on the streets of Leicester between Indian Hindu's and Pakistan Muslims. These were instigated by recent arrivals from India who were emboldened by Modi's move towards Apartheid in India. They then radicalise the 2nd and 3rd Generation you mention Newton's 3rd Law States for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. It main remain below the surface for sometime gestating it may only be a ripple. When I say immigrants and their descendants have contributed to British Society it would take too long to explore each in detail but to give an example of each Farage (Hugeunot) Rothschild (Jewish escaping persecution) Tony Blair (Irish) Sunak (India ) Jessica Ennis-Hill (Windrush)
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 12:05:14 GMT
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 15, 2024 12:05:14 GMT
I thought it had more directly to do with the us/allies invasion of Libya and ISIS, rather than the previous Italianand European colonialism. I don't think your explanation would give much comfort to the families of victims. Perhaps the UK should consider severely curbing immigration given the risk to our citizens. Why risk the blowing up of children and grandchildren. I think if it happens to your own children, it would focus your mind.As you say the current generation have nothing to do with Colonialism and have a completely different outlook. We have a duty to protect them..We have enough problems. There is a doubt that "undoubtedly " each group has had a positive effect. Depends how it is measured. We could be storing up future problems. I was speaking in a General sense but In the case of the Manchester Bomber yes it was US and UK via NATO deciding that Regime Change, of Gaddafi, was required. Although most would agree with the decision, including the Manchester Bomber, there can be unintended consequences if you meddle in the affairs of other Countries. Yes the Iraq War where the US and UK led "the Coalition of the Willing" to remove the WMD that Saddam didn't have created the conditions for ISIS to emerge and subsequently the War in Syria where the Manchester Bomber was radicalised. ISIS ideology was an latent ancient one for the establishment of a Muslim Caliphate and these two events helped to spread that ideology within the Muslim World and Globally What I meant by the current Citizens of UK was they are not responsible for Colonisation. Governments past and present are and that legacy is inherited. In today's conflicts UK has strongly come down on the side of Israel and Ukraine and provided weapons to both. I'm not judging here whether it's the right choice just that it's a fact. Would you rule out a Terrorist attach in UK sometime in the future by a disgruntled Palestinian or Russian who may have lost Family and blames UK, I wouldn't. The UK has the largest footprint Globally simply because it historically had the largest Empire. Government are keen to maintain that footprint on one level via The Commonwealth of Nations which now includes some Countries that were never Colonised E.g. Rwanda. The British Monarch is it's figurehead but the reason Government wish to maintain it is Influence and Trade. Trade UK/Commonwealth declined on UK joining EEC. Since Brexit UK is trying to reinvigorate especially with India in the form of a Trade Deal. One of the main sticking points in negotiations is the amount of Visas UK will grant India. There is always quid pro quo in Global matters. We saw quite recent clashes on the streets of Leicester between Indian Hindu's and Pakistan Muslims. These were instigated by recent arrivals from India who were emboldened by Modi's move towards Apartheid in India. They then radicalise the 2nd and 3rd Generation you mention Newton's 3rd Law States for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. It main remain below the surface for sometime gestating it may only be a ripple. When I say immigrants and their descendants have contributed to British Society it would take too long to explore each in detail but to give an example of each Farage (Hugeunot) Rothschild (Jewish escaping persecution) Tony Blair (Irish) Sunak (India ) Jessica Ennis-Hill (Windrush) Tony Blair is not Irish ta very much😆
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 15, 2024 12:10:04 GMT
So someone declaring 'Free Plaestine' is recorded as being a antisemitic incident. I'm not saying it isn't always but this is a very grey area to say the least. I wonder if shouting a pro Israel message would be regarded as Islamophobic? I think context is everything, and the figures tell us very little, but of course they will be the headline and then used for its various purposes. Also Islamophobia is on the rise since 7th October, so rather than stoking the fears of British Jews I think there should be a clear message that hatred and bigotry just will not be tolerated across the board................
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 12:14:10 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 15, 2024 12:14:10 GMT
I thought it had more directly to do with the us/allies invasion of Libya and ISIS, rather than the previous Italianand European colonialism. I don't think your explanation would give much comfort to the families of victims. Perhaps the UK should consider severely curbing immigration given the risk to our citizens. Why risk the blowing up of children and grandchildren. I think if it happens to your own children, it would focus your mind.As you say the current generation have nothing to do with Colonialism and have a completely different outlook. We have a duty to protect them..We have enough problems. There is a doubt that "undoubtedly " each group has had a positive effect. Depends how it is measured. We could be storing up future problems. I was speaking in a General sense but In the case of the Manchester Bomber yes it was US and UK via NATO deciding that Regime Change, of Gaddafi, was required. Although most would agree with the decision, including the Manchester Bomber, there can be unintended consequences if you meddle in the affairs of other Countries. Yes the Iraq War where the US and UK led "the Coalition of the Willing" to remove the WMD that Saddam didn't have created the conditions for ISIS to emerge and subsequently the War in Syria where the Manchester Bomber was radicalised. ISIS ideology was an latent ancient one for the establishment of a Muslim Caliphate and these two events helped to spread that ideology within the Muslim World and Globally What I meant by the current Citizens of UK was they are not responsible for Colonisation. Governments past and present are and that legacy is inherited. In today's conflicts UK has strongly come down on the side of Israel and Ukraine and provided weapons to both. I'm not judging here whether it's the right choice just that it's a fact. Would you rule out a Terrorist attach in UK sometime in the future by a disgruntled Palestinian or Russian who may have lost Family and blames UK, I wouldn't. The UK has the largest footprint Globally simply because it historically had the largest Empire. Government are keen to maintain that footprint on one level via The Commonwealth of Nations which now includes some Countries that were never Colonised E.g. Rwanda. The British Monarch is it's figurehead but the reason Government wish to maintain it is Influence and Trade. Trade UK/Commonwealth declined on UK joining EEC. Since Brexit UK is trying to reinvigorate especially with India in the form of a Trade Deal. One of the main sticking points in negotiations is the amount of Visas UK will grant India. There is always quid pro quo in Global matters. We saw quite recent clashes on the streets of Leicester between Indian Hindu's and Pakistan Muslims. These were instigated by recent arrivals from India who were emboldened by Modi's move towards Apartheid in India. They then radicalise the 2nd and 3rd Generation you mention Newton's 3rd Law States for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. It main remain below the surface for sometime gestating it may only be a ripple. When I say immigrants and their descendants have contributed to British Society it would take too long to explore each in detail but to give an example of each Farage (Hugeunot) Rothschild (Jewish escaping persecution) Tony Blair (Irish) Sunak (India ) Jessica Ennis-Hill (Windrush) You seem to be "defending" or giving examples of individual successful immigrants. I don't know why, of course there have been good immigrants. I don't think that is the issue. As others have said in other posts, in this changed world, we have a responsibility to be as careful as possible who we let in AND given the change in population growth, arguably the effects of immigration of the past should not determine the policy going forward.And it is certainly not just about the economy, the culture ( you have alluded to Hindu/ Muslim clashes over an issue originating in the Indian sub continent) , culture clash and the hidden pressure on transport, housing, education, the social services and the health service may result in a fall in the quality of life.....irrespective of previous immigrantion. In my opinion.
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 12:19:46 GMT
Post by wannabee on Feb 15, 2024 12:19:46 GMT
Tony Blair is not Irish ta very much😆 You're very much misinformed my friend Ihttps://www.irishtimes.com/news/mother-described-as-an-almost-saintly-woman-1.645587 * Coincidentally his wife Cherie is of Irish Ancestry
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 12:25:44 GMT
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 15, 2024 12:25:44 GMT
Tony Blair is not Irish ta very much😆 You're very much misinformed my friend Ihttps://www.irishtimes.com/news/mother-described-as-an-almost-saintly-woman-1.645587 * Coincidentally his wife Cherie is of Irish Ancestry Born in Edinburgh. He's Scottish. Every fucker has an Irish relative.
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 12:46:35 GMT
Post by wannabee on Feb 15, 2024 12:46:35 GMT
I was speaking in a General sense but In the case of the Manchester Bomber yes it was US and UK via NATO deciding that Regime Change, of Gaddafi, was required. Although most would agree with the decision, including the Manchester Bomber, there can be unintended consequences if you meddle in the affairs of other Countries. Yes the Iraq War where the US and UK led "the Coalition of the Willing" to remove the WMD that Saddam didn't have created the conditions for ISIS to emerge and subsequently the War in Syria where the Manchester Bomber was radicalised. ISIS ideology was an latent ancient one for the establishment of a Muslim Caliphate and these two events helped to spread that ideology within the Muslim World and Globally What I meant by the current Citizens of UK was they are not responsible for Colonisation. Governments past and present are and that legacy is inherited. In today's conflicts UK has strongly come down on the side of Israel and Ukraine and provided weapons to both. I'm not judging here whether it's the right choice just that it's a fact. Would you rule out a Terrorist attach in UK sometime in the future by a disgruntled Palestinian or Russian who may have lost Family and blames UK, I wouldn't. The UK has the largest footprint Globally simply because it historically had the largest Empire. Government are keen to maintain that footprint on one level via The Commonwealth of Nations which now includes some Countries that were never Colonised E.g. Rwanda. The British Monarch is it's figurehead but the reason Government wish to maintain it is Influence and Trade. Trade UK/Commonwealth declined on UK joining EEC. Since Brexit UK is trying to reinvigorate especially with India in the form of a Trade Deal. One of the main sticking points in negotiations is the amount of Visas UK will grant India. There is always quid pro quo in Global matters. We saw quite recent clashes on the streets of Leicester between Indian Hindu's and Pakistan Muslims. These were instigated by recent arrivals from India who were emboldened by Modi's move towards Apartheid in India. They then radicalise the 2nd and 3rd Generation you mention Newton's 3rd Law States for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. It main remain below the surface for sometime gestating it may only be a ripple. When I say immigrants and their descendants have contributed to British Society it would take too long to explore each in detail but to give an example of each Farage (Hugeunot) Rothschild (Jewish escaping persecution) Tony Blair (Irish) Sunak (India ) Jessica Ennis-Hill (Windrush) You seem to be "defending" or giving examples of individual successful immigrants. I don't know why, of course there have been good immigrants. I don't think that is the issue. As others have said in other posts, in this changed world, we have a responsibility to be as careful as possible who we let in AND given the change in population growth, arguably the effects of immigration of the past should not determine the policy going forward.And it is certainly not just about the economy, the culture ( you have alluded to Hindu/ Muslim clashes over an issue originating in the Indian sub continent) , culture clash and the hidden pressure on transport, housing, education, the social services and the health service may result in a fall in the quality of life.....irrespective of previous immigrantion. In my opinion. My point was that Immigrants and their descendants are interwoven into the fabric of British Society. Obviously I used some of the most famous to illustrate the point but there are literally Many Millions some good Citizens, some not. Of course it's a changed and changing World and in my opinion a much more dangerous one as I said in a recent post most of the world seems to be evolving towards being Governed by Dictators or Pseudo Dictators Of course Government should be cautious and set a Policy to reflect that. If you think that Policy won't be guided by Economics you're deluded. If that Policy is a reset that perfectly fine, but it doesn't erase the past Having a reset on Immigration Policy is one thing but continued involvement in International Conflicts and specifically the side we choose to back set us down a certain path. The reason I highlighted the Leicester disturbances is because they have their origin outside UK and recent immigrant agitators are the cause. I know you read the Brexit Thread in it Mr Coke is frothing for a Trade Deal with India, I have consistently argued against because currently India is Governed by an unstable Dictator and the Deal will require the granting of many more Visas. In my view asking for trouble.
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 12:48:24 GMT
Post by wannabee on Feb 15, 2024 12:48:24 GMT
You're very much misinformed my friend Ihttps://www.irishtimes.com/news/mother-described-as-an-almost-saintly-woman-1.645587 * Coincidentally his wife Cherie is of Irish Ancestry Born in Edinburgh. He's Scottish. Every fucker has an Irish relative. If you don't understand big words like Ancestry I wonder why you reply to expose your ignorance
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 12:54:42 GMT
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 15, 2024 12:54:42 GMT
Born in Edinburgh. He's Scottish. Every fucker has an Irish relative. If you don't understand big words like Ancestry I wonder why you reply to expose your ignorance No need to be bitchy chief. I understand perfectly well. I'm pointing out where he was born which makes him Scottish. Both my parents are Irish, I was born at the North Staffs Royal Infirmary. I'm English with Irish heritage. See how it works.....carry on with your theory and I guess we're all Africans hey 😆
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 13:15:06 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 15, 2024 13:15:06 GMT
You seem to be "defending" or giving examples of individual successful immigrants. I don't know why, of course there have been good immigrants. I don't think that is the issue. As others have said in other posts, in this changed world, we have a responsibility to be as careful as possible who we let in AND given the change in population growth, arguably the effects of immigration of the past should not determine the policy going forward.And it is certainly not just about the economy, the culture ( you have alluded to Hindu/ Muslim clashes over an issue originating in the Indian sub continent) , culture clash and the hidden pressure on transport, housing, education, the social services and the health service may result in a fall in the quality of life.....irrespective of previous immigrantion. In my opinion. My point was that Immigrants and their descendants are interwoven into the fabric of British Society. Obviously I used some of the most famous to illustrate the point but there are literally Many Millions some good Citizens, some not. Of course it's a changed and changing World and in my opinion a much more dangerous one as I said in a recent post most of the world seems to be evolving towards being Governed by Dictators or Pseudo Dictators Of course Government should be cautious and set a Policy to reflect that. If you think that Policy won't be guided by Economics you're deluded. If that Policy is a reset that perfectly fine, but it doesn't erase the past Having a reset on Immigration Policy is one thing but continued involvement in International Conflicts and specifically the side we choose to back set us down a certain path. The reason I highlighted the Leicester disturbances is because they have their origin outside UK and recent immigrant agitators are the cause. I know you read the Brexit Thread in it Mr Coke is frothing for a Trade Deal with India, I have consistently argued against because currently India is Governed by an unstable Dictator and the Deal will require the granting of many more Visas. In my view asking for trouble. To be honest Wannabee....I don't know what you are talking about, I only occasionally dip into the Brexit thread, too repetitive, irrelevant and just entrenched views.I've no idea what that has got to do with anything on this thread.. No disrespect to him( or you) , but I haven't read any of your or his " monologues on the Brexit thread, much too ridiculously long. Also I'M not sure what your selective history lesson on Immigration has to do with anything. I am probably deluded, perhaps you are as well. I'm not sure anything " governs" our Immigration policy....I've not been talking about thst, I've been talking about the possible effects of Immigration.
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 13:24:22 GMT
Post by wannabee on Feb 15, 2024 13:24:22 GMT
If you don't understand big words like Ancestry I wonder why you reply to expose your ignorance No need to be bitchy chief. I understand perfectly well. I'm pointing out where he was born which makes him Scottish. Both my parents are Irish, I was born at the North Staffs Royal Infirmary. I'm English with Irish heritage. See how it works.....carry on with your theory and I guess we're all Africans hey 😆 I never said that Blair wasn't born in Scotland In a discussion about Immigrants and their descendents I gave an example of several ethic Groups that have mass emigrated to UK and become woven into British Society. Blair was one example I gave. Jesus was Born in a Stable, it didn't make him a Horse.
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 13:34:52 GMT
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 15, 2024 13:34:52 GMT
No need to be bitchy chief. I understand perfectly well. I'm pointing out where he was born which makes him Scottish. Both my parents are Irish, I was born at the North Staffs Royal Infirmary. I'm English with Irish heritage. See how it works.....carry on with your theory and I guess we're all Africans hey 😆 I never said that Blair wasn't born in Scotland In a discussion about Immigrants and their descendents I gave an example of several ethic Groups that have mass emigrated to UK and become woven into British Society. Blair was one example I gave. Jesus was Born in a Stable, it didn't make him a Horse. To be fair I was jokingly sticking up for the Irish contingent on here who I'm quite sure do not want any responsibility for that war criminal. But the fact remains he's Scottish by birth. Whenever I go back to see family and friends in Ireland I'm known as English Bob cos that's where I was born. You'll be telling me the peaceful fireside story teller Joey Biden is Irish next 😆
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 15, 2024 13:38:43 GMT
This is the kind of shit I was talking about before, a former editor of The Sun naturally. It does neither Muslims nor Jews any favours as it just stokes hatred..........
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 13:45:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 15, 2024 13:45:28 GMT
No need to be bitchy chief. I understand perfectly well. I'm pointing out where he was born which makes him Scottish. Both my parents are Irish, I was born at the North Staffs Royal Infirmary. I'm English with Irish heritage. See how it works.....carry on with your theory and I guess we're all Africans hey 😆 I never said that Blair wasn't born in Scotland In a discussion about Immigrants and their descendents I gave an example of several ethic Groups that have mass emigrated to UK and become woven into British Society. Blair was one example I gave. Jesus was Born in a Stable, it didn't make him a Horse. [br Your last statement Wannabee, does that imply if say a Libyan gained asylum in France, he could not become French....or is it too intellectually challenging for me to understand? Was it Bernard Manning who came up with the " analogy"( of sorts) or someone else?
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Israel
Feb 15, 2024 13:49:57 GMT
Post by wannabee on Feb 15, 2024 13:49:57 GMT
I never said that Blair wasn't born in Scotland In a discussion about Immigrants and their descendents I gave an example of several ethic Groups that have mass emigrated to UK and become woven into British Society. Blair was one example I gave. Jesus was Born in a Stable, it didn't make him a Horse. To be fair I was jokingly sticking up for the Irish contingent on here who I'm quite sure do not want any responsibility for that war criminal. But the fact remains he's Scottish by birth. Whenever I go back to see family and friends in Ireland I'm known as English Bob cos that's where I was born. You'll be telling me the peaceful fireside story teller Joey Biden is Irish next 😆 I also didn't say I admired any of the people I used as examples just that they had a major influence on British Society, that can be good or bad depending on your viewpoint Out of curiosity another unsavoury character do you consider Boris Johnson American or British?
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 15, 2024 13:56:49 GMT
To be fair I was jokingly sticking up for the Irish contingent on here who I'm quite sure do not want any responsibility for that war criminal. But the fact remains he's Scottish by birth. Whenever I go back to see family and friends in Ireland I'm known as English Bob cos that's where I was born. You'll be telling me the peaceful fireside story teller Joey Biden is Irish next 😆 I also didn't say I admired any of the people I used as examples just that they had a major influence on British Society, that can be good or bad depending on your viewpoint Out of curiosity another unsavoury character do you consider Boris Johnson American or British? Good question. He was born in America so to justify my previous comments I'll say American 😆 but I get your line of questioning. But honestly I was just cracking a blair joke to highlight nobody likes the man and wouldn't want ownership of him. That was all.
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