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Post by wannabee on Jan 12, 2024 15:43:17 GMT
I don't think it'd be needed at all. If we gave Ukraine what they need, they'd do it for us and that would do the job. Russia is barely a second rate military nation as things stand. They just have lots of equipment and lots of meat to churn. Defeating them send the message to China. It's like if Russia was daft enough to attack Finland, I think the Finns alone would do a solid job of beating them. Beating them currently will save lives but is also very symbolic and a marker. Not wanting to take this thread any further off track (yes I know I started it) I'll respond to this on the Ukraine thread if that's OK? Agreed Paul, it's just extraordinary people don't equate the direct parallels between what Russia is doing in Ukraine and what Israel is doing in Gaza/West Bank. It takes some juxtaposition to say "Russia Bad, Israel Good" I suppose critical thinking is difficult when you are constantly being bombardered with a whole bunch of Bullshit by MSN |
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jan 12, 2024 15:46:15 GMT
They didn't need to do what they did on the 7th did they. You are the Karl Pilkington of the Oatcake. Comedy gold 🤣 |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 15:52:37 GMT
They didn't need to do what they did on the 7th did they. You are the Karl Pilkington of the Oatcake. Comedy gold 🤣 They didn't. You fuck around, you find out. They found out in a pretty horrific way. Now I think it's gone way too far and the Israeli's need to stop and work out a deal that will allow everyone to live side by side. Hamas though shouldn't be a part of that. |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 15:53:16 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 15:53:16 GMT
Not wanting to take this thread any further off track (yes I know I started it) I'll respond to this on the Ukraine thread if that's OK? Agreed Paul, it's just extraordinary people don't equate the direct parallels between what Russia is doing in Ukraine and what Israel is doing in Gaza/West Bank. It takes some juxtaposition to say "Russia Bad, Israel Good" I suppose critical thinking is difficult when you are constantly being bombardered with a whole bunch of Bullshit by MSN I don't think "Israel good". And have said so. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 12, 2024 16:43:36 GMT
You are the Karl Pilkington of the Oatcake. Comedy gold 🤣 They didn't. You fuck around, you find out. They found out in a pretty horrific way. Now I think it's gone way too far and the Israeli's need to stop and work out a deal that will allow everyone to live side by side. Hamas though shouldn't be a part of that. Surely using the same infantile logic then Israel have been "fucking around" and "found out" on October 7th in a horrific way? |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 17:09:56 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 17:09:56 GMT
They didn't. You fuck around, you find out. They found out in a pretty horrific way. Now I think it's gone way too far and the Israeli's need to stop and work out a deal that will allow everyone to live side by side. Hamas though shouldn't be a part of that. Surely using the same infantile logic then Israel have been "fucking around" and "found out" on October 7th in a horrific way? They did. They took their eye off the ball. |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 18:38:42 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2024 18:38:42 GMT
You are the Karl Pilkington of the Oatcake. Comedy gold 🤣 Now I think it's gone way too far and the Israeli's need to stop and work out a deal that will allow everyone to live side by side. Hamas though shouldn't be a part of that. So if you don't think that Israel is good, why should they be a part of it? |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 18:40:10 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 18:40:10 GMT
Now I think it's gone way too far and the Israeli's need to stop and work out a deal that will allow everyone to live side by side. Hamas though shouldn't be a part of that. So if you don't think that Israel is good, why should they be a part of it? Netanyahu needs to go and they need new leadership. The moderates need to meet. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2024 18:49:06 GMT
So if you don't think that Israel is good, why should they be a part of it? Netanyahu needs to go and they need new leadership. The moderates need to meet. Ah right, so the route to peace, is for the Palestinians to overthrow Hamas and the Isreali's to overthrow Netanyahu and furthermore, then not allow any other right wing suitors in to replace him? |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 18:50:46 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 18:50:46 GMT
Netanyahu needs to go and they need new leadership. The moderates need to meet. Ah right, so the route to peace, is for the Palestinians to overthrow Hamas and the Isreali's to overthrow Netanyahu and furthermore, then not allow any other right wing suitors in to replace him? There’s literally no other plausible solution is there? |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 18:51:31 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2024 18:51:31 GMT
Ah right, so the route to peace, is for the Palestinians to overthrow Hamas and the Isreali's to overthrow Netanyahu and furthermore, then not allow any other right wing suitors in to replace him? There’s literally no other plausible solution is there? That absolutely isn't a plausible solution mate. |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 18:58:19 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 18:58:19 GMT
There’s literally no other plausible solution is there? That absolutely isn't a plausible solution mate. It’s what the general population in both places want. They need to fight for it. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2024 19:12:15 GMT
That absolutely isn't a plausible solution mate. It’s what the general population in both places want. They need to fight for it. You want to bring about peace, by encouraging the Arabs to fight Arabs and the Jews to fight Jews? I suspect you might be on a bit of a wind up ... |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 19:40:43 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 19:40:43 GMT
It’s what the general population in both places want. They need to fight for it. You want to bring about peace, by encouraging the Arabs to fight Arabs and the Jews to fight Jews? I suspect you might be on a bit of a wind up ... Fight? The Israelis need to be on the streets like they were before. It’s literally the only way this thing resolves itself. You can’t have peace as long as Hamas and the right wing lot in Israel are in charge. |
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Post by OldStokie on Jan 12, 2024 19:59:42 GMT
Was watching Stephen Sackur on 'Hardtalk' very recently. He was interviewing an Israeli peace activist who has been in support of a two state solution for most of his life. He said all his efforts were now useless because 800.000 settlers on the West Bank would be impossible to shift now to bring it about. He also accepted that his Zionist led country is now as bad as S. Africa was years ago with it's apartheid policies. He was distraught.
OS.
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Post by felonious on Jan 12, 2024 20:00:54 GMT
You are the Karl Pilkington of the Oatcake. Comedy gold 🤣 They didn't. You fuck around, you find out. They found out in a pretty horrific way. Now I think it's gone way too far and the Israeli's need to stop and work out a deal that will allow everyone to live side by side. Hamas though shouldn't be a part of that. Have you thought about putting your name forward as a special envoy  |
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Jan 12, 2024 20:01:55 GMT
Was watching Stephen Sackur on 'Hardtalk' very recently. He was interviewing an Israeli peace activist who has been in support of a two state solution for most of his life. He said all his efforts were now useless because 800.000 settlers on the West Bank would be impossible to shift now to bring it about. He also accepted that his Zionist led country is now as bad as S. Africa was years ago with it's apartheid policies. He was distraught. OS. By heck you must up early to be watching that  Good show that. |
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Post by felonious on Jan 12, 2024 20:04:04 GMT
Was watching Stephen Sackur on 'Hardtalk' very recently. He was interviewing an Israeli peace activist who has been in support of a two state solution for most of his life. He said all his efforts were now useless because 800.000 settlers on the West Bank would be impossible to shift now to bring it about. He also accepted that his Zionist led country is now as bad as S. Africa was years ago with it's apartheid policies. He was distraught. OS. By heck you must up early to be watching that Good show that. Probably on when he got up for his third pee  |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 20:11:31 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 20:11:31 GMT
They didn't. You fuck around, you find out. They found out in a pretty horrific way. Now I think it's gone way too far and the Israeli's need to stop and work out a deal that will allow everyone to live side by side. Hamas though shouldn't be a part of that. Have you thought about putting your name forward as a special envoy My gunboat diplomacy is just what’s needed |
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Post by felonious on Jan 12, 2024 20:14:03 GMT
Have you thought about putting your name forward as a special envoy My gunboat diplomacy is just what’s needed When I said "special" I really meant it |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 20:18:20 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2024 20:26:25 GMT
A lovely slice of whataboutery! 🤦♂️ |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2024 21:19:33 GMT
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Israel
Jan 13, 2024 0:02:10 GMT
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Post by musik on Jan 13, 2024 0:02:10 GMT
The Huthi rebels in Yemen said they want to support Palestine and support shia muslims, according to the news here.
But do Hamas call themselves shia muslims and not sunni?
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Post by roylandstoke on Jan 13, 2024 0:03:13 GMT
A lovely slice of whataboutery! 🤦♂️ Whataboutery appeared to be the sole Israeli defence of genocide. |
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Israel
Jan 13, 2024 0:26:59 GMT
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musik likes this
Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 13, 2024 0:26:59 GMT
The Huthi rebels in Yemen said they want to support Palestine and support shia muslims, according to the news here. But do Hamas call themselves shia muslims and not sunni? I'm probably over simplifying the answer to your question but in an attempt to keep it short ... Hamas (and most Palestinian Muslims) are Sunni and the Houthi's/Iran are Shia. However, Iran sees it's security as most threatened by the USA and that initself trumps any Sunni/Shia conflict. Prior to the 79 revolution Israel and Iran were allies but following the ousting of the Shah, the new religious right in Tehran, saw Israel as the illegal occupier of Muslim lands, particularly Jerusalem. It is actually far, far more complicated than that but hopefully that essentially explains why Shia Muslims support Sunnis in this conflict. |
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Post by prettything on Jan 13, 2024 1:04:06 GMT
You are the Karl Pilkington of the Oatcake. Comedy gold 🤣 They didn't. You fuck around, you find out. They found out in a pretty horrific way. Now I think it's gone way too far and the Israeli's need to stop and work out a deal that will allow everyone to live side by side. Hamas though shouldn't be a part of that. The more Palestinian children lose their mothers, fathers , uncles , aunts, and friends to this enforced genocide, the more radicalisation and martyrdom will be created as a result. As a result, Hamas will continue to be the only answer for many of these people. They have nothing left to lose, they have already lost their homes, lives and future. They will rightfully seek vengeance, one way or another, in years to come. This conflict should have been stopped in its tracks early on after the Hamas terror attacks, and not have been left to this current dreadful Israel regime to exert their own vengeance on Gaza, entirely on their own terms. Very much like the US were left to their own devices after 911. On a side note for those who want to stop the boats, which will be made much worse due to this expanding conflict. The UK and the US were a major player in creating this situation! The number one country seeking refugee status is Afghanistan. You know , the country that has been bombed to the point of devastation these last 20 years or so. By which countries ? You guessed it, largely the UK and the USA! We share responsibility, and it’s about time we realise this and have an open conversation about it, and exclude our client media organisations in this process. Unfortunately, the West have fallen into this trap after committing their military to the surrounding regions, and things will get inevitably worse . We have such a vacuum of political talent in this country and in the US, both serving their current domestic economic insecurity to such an extent that future ramifications are side lined due to their individual precarious political,domestic positions back home. People exhaled a sigh of relief when Trump left office and Biden got in, me included. Now I’m not so sure. I’m not even sure if Biden is even making the decisions in the White House that have led to,and continue to ramp up this conflict, which will inevitably spread to other parts of this region and beyond. Fasten your seatbelts, we are in for a bumpy ride. |
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Post by Gawa on Jan 13, 2024 8:30:53 GMT
Surely using the same infantile logic then Israel have been "fucking around" and "found out" on October 7th in a horrific way? They did. They took their eye off the ball. Bollocks they knew all about it and allowed it to happen as a justification to commit genocide. |
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Israel
Jan 13, 2024 18:26:04 GMT
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Post by Davef on Jan 13, 2024 18:26:04 GMT
They did. They took their eye off the ball. Bollocks they knew all about it and allowed it to happen as a justification to commit genocide. Unfollow Jackson Hinckle |
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Post by wannabee on Jan 13, 2024 18:58:14 GMT
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