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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jan 12, 2024 7:38:47 GMT
Totally understand the concerns involved here but sometimes taking decisive action is the correct thing to do. The problem in allowing a rogue state in Yemen, which is funded by another dangerous Islamic regime (Iran) to carry on as it please's, who are regularly attacking our own Military forces as well as civilian folk going about their business on the cargo ships & tankers in the Red Sea, needs confronting. Well over 100 attacks have been recorded in that region in the past few months, some cargo ships have been kidnapped & the crews are still missing. This quite simply isn't right. How much can you just sit back and take these threats & attacks coming your way?! The crews on these civilian ships and even the military ships are risking their lives every day working in that area purely trying to keep the peace & go about their business. But every day they are working in fear of attack. Will these defensive attacks make the situation better or worse time will tell, but for me something had to be done. The fact so many countries have backed and been involved in these attacks tonight suggests it has been considered and sufficient evidence has been received to continue as they have. I can see both sides, but more so Paul Spencer’s points. When the ceasefire happened, these attacks stopped. We need to be looking at the root cause of these strikes, which is Israel’s continued genocide. Stopping that will do much more good. Absolutely. I'd fucking kick back if I were Palestinian. Israel are certainly no angels and are killing thousands of innocent people. HAMAS are a terrorist organisation and are to be treated as such but the Israeli response has no value for the lives of innocent people. It's a shit show to say the least. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 8:33:30 GMT
Totally understand the concerns involved here but sometimes taking decisive action is the correct thing to do. The problem in allowing a rogue state in Yemen, which is funded by another dangerous Islamic regime (Iran) to carry on as it please's, who are regularly attacking our own Military forces as well as civilian folk going about their business on the cargo ships & tankers in the Red Sea, needs confronting. Well over 100 attacks have been recorded in that region in the past few months, some cargo ships have been kidnapped & the crews are still missing. This quite simply isn't right. How much can you just sit back and take these threats & attacks coming your way?! The crews on these civilian ships and even the military ships are risking their lives every day working in that area purely trying to keep the peace & go about their business. But every day they are working in fear of attack. Will these defensive attacks make the situation better or worse time will tell, but for me something had to be done. The fact so many countries have backed and been involved in these attacks tonight suggests it has been considered and sufficient evidence has been received to continue as they have. I can see both sides, but more so Paul Spencer’s points. When the ceasefire happened, these attacks stopped. We need to be looking at the root cause of these strikes, which is Israel’s continued genocide. Stopping that will do much more good. Iran and the Houthi’s have been doing this for years. Israel is just a bit of an excuse isn’t it? |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 12, 2024 8:48:59 GMT
I can see both sides, but more so Paul Spencer’s points. When the ceasefire happened, these attacks stopped. We need to be looking at the root cause of these strikes, which is Israel’s continued genocide. Stopping that will do much more good. Absolutely. I'd fucking kick back if I were Palestinian. Israel are certainly no angels and are killing thousands of innocent people. HAMAS are a terrorist organisation and are to be treated as such but the Israeli response has no value for the lives of innocent people. It's a shit show to say the least. Look at the West's response to the BDS movement of boycotting goods and services that come out of occupied territory, look at the outcome of the Great March of Return in 2018/19 where over 200 peaceful protestors were killed. The Palestinians people are patronised and told "violence is not the answer" whilst other peaceful methods are taken away from them. Of course October 7th wasn't right who in the right mind would think otherwise, but for fucks sake if I put myself in the shoes of an ordinary oppressed Palestinian in Gaza or the West Bank they must be absolutely at the end of their tether with the whole situation................ |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 12, 2024 8:56:07 GMT
I can see both sides, but more so Paul Spencer’s points. When the ceasefire happened, these attacks stopped. We need to be looking at the root cause of these strikes, which is Israel’s continued genocide. Stopping that will do much more good. Iran and the Houthi’s have been doing this for years. Israel is just a bit of an excuse isn’t it? Since 2022 there has been a ceasefire that lasted 6 months, and more recently there was a large scale prisoner swap agreed between the Houthi's and the Saudi government. The situation is far from ideal but the chance of a permanent ceasefire was as good as it's ever been before October 7th................ |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 9:01:17 GMT
Iran and the Houthi’s have been doing this for years. Israel is just a bit of an excuse isn’t it? Since 2022 there has been a ceasefire that lasted 6 months, and more recently there was a large scale prisoner swap agreed between the Houthi's and the Saudi government. The situation is far from ideal but the chance of a permanent ceasefire was as good as it's ever been before October 7th................ So Hamas fucked it then yeah?  I know it's not that simple but hopefully you get my point! |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 9:09:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by wagsastokie on Jan 12, 2024 9:09:53 GMT
Another example of a labour government fuck up
Should never of given Aden back
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jan 12, 2024 9:11:02 GMT
Since 2022 there has been a ceasefire that lasted 6 months, and more recently there was a large scale prisoner swap agreed between the Houthi's and the Saudi government. The situation is far from ideal but the chance of a permanent ceasefire was as good as it's ever been before October 7th................ So Hamas fucked it then yeah? I know it's not that simple but hopefully you get my point! Oh Bayern 🤦 |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 9:25:02 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 9:25:02 GMT
So Hamas fucked it then yeah? I know it's not that simple but hopefully you get my point! Oh Bayern 🤦 They didn't need to do what they did on the 7th did they. |
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Post by dutchstokie on Jan 12, 2024 9:39:47 GMT
Very much so. The Saudi led Arab coalition in 2015 invaded Yemen with thousands of troops and numerous planes and hi-tech British and US equipment and guess what? Eight years on, the Houthis are still running the show. We're not going to achieve anything. As far as I'm aware, not one single person has been killed in the Red Sea but 25,000 civilians have been murdered in Gaza. The Houthis have said the attacks will stop, when Israel starts allowing aid into Gaza. So what do we do? Instead of getting tough with Israel, we decide to spend billions attacking another country, whilst at the same time, running the risk of... Losing British military personnel Becoming embroiled in an all out war in the Red Sea, creating a rise in the cost of goods back home. Potentially dragging Iran into a much bigger war entirely, for the love of God, please no. Nevermind prompting renewed terror attacks on our streets. And all for what? We've got one aircraft carrier out there, where are the French, the Germans, the Dutch, the Australians, the Canadians, why is it always US who are the ones who end up acting like dickheads? Theres a bit here on the Dutch involvement: www.dutchnews.nl/2024/01/dutch-have-supporting-role-in-strikes-on-houthi-territory/The " supporting role" consists of a military battle strategist. This was reported on the news over here this morning. ( that'll be some mush putting them little red pegs in a battleship game) " B4" .......BOOOOOM |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 9:57:14 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 9:57:14 GMT
On the cooperation front I think it's interesting to see the wider range of people that are getting involved tbh.
Egypt and India have put up quite a useful amount of naval power into it.
And Singapore is joining in now which makes total sense for them. It'll be interesting to see how. They have 6 serious looking ships but can they afford to send one to the Middle East. And by afford, I don't mean cost, I just mean are they needed to protect Singapore and shipping lanes closer to home?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 12, 2024 10:51:19 GMT
The South African case to the ICJ wasn't deemed worthy of being live streamed by the BBC or Sky yesterday but the Israeli defence apparently is. Seems a tad biased does that.
And it's been awful, the QC has lost his page a couple of times and got really flustered, and his whole argument seems to be "trust me bro, we're not committing genocide"
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Post by wannabee on Jan 12, 2024 10:53:23 GMT
They didn't need to do what they did on the 7th did they. The conflict didn't start on 7th October 2023 Pick any date from 14th May 1948 onwards |
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Post by wannabee on Jan 12, 2024 11:01:56 GMT
On the cooperation front I think it's interesting to see the wider range of people that are getting involved tbh. Egypt and India have put up quite a useful amount of naval power into it. And Singapore is joining in now which makes total sense for them. It'll be interesting to see how. They have 6 serious looking ships but can they afford to send one to the Middle East. And by afford, I don't mean cost, I just mean are they needed to protect Singapore and shipping lanes closer to home? Conclusive proof if it were needed Commercial Interests of the West are more important than the mass slaughter of Gazans |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 12, 2024 11:26:33 GMT
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Post by Gods on Jan 12, 2024 12:02:29 GMT
The South African case to the ICJ wasn't deemed worthy of being live streamed by the BBC or Sky yesterday but the Israeli defence apparently is. Seems a tad biased does that. And it's been awful, the QC has lost his page a couple of times and got really flustered, and his whole argument seems to be "trust me bro, we're not committing genocide" I know this is bad but I simply switch channel the split second an Israeli spokesperson pops up on the TV. I've got familiar with the faces and can flip even before the first question. I know I shouldn't since I never hear the other side of the argument. But that's where I'm at. I have gone the full Jeremy Corbyn 😆 |
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Post by lordb on Jan 12, 2024 12:07:51 GMT
They didn't need to do what they did on the 7th did they. The conflict didn't start on 7th October 2023 Pick any date from 14th May 1948 onwards can go back 2000+ years if you want |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 13:09:12 GMT
Post by flea79 on Jan 12, 2024 13:09:12 GMT
i just get the feeling we are on the edge of a terrible precipice that will take countless lives and destroy large areas of our earth
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Post by Not_Nick_H on Jan 12, 2024 13:17:39 GMT
I can see both sides, but more so Paul Spencer’s points. When the ceasefire happened, these attacks stopped. We need to be looking at the root cause of these strikes, which is Israel’s continued genocide. Stopping that will do much more good. have been doing this for years. Israel is just a bit of an excuse isn’t it? ...Didn't they support World of... oh never mind. Sorry - I thought some levity was needed. |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 13:51:39 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 13:51:39 GMT
i just get the feeling we are on the edge of a terrible precipice that will take countless lives and destroy large areas of our earth Potentially. It's why it's key to crush Russia. |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 14:08:18 GMT
Post by wannabee on Jan 12, 2024 14:08:18 GMT
i just get the feeling we are on the edge of a terrible precipice that will take countless lives and destroy large areas of our earth Potentially. It's why it's key to crush Russia. Is this the Country that is occupying its neighbours land and systematically stealing that land by force and its Military shooting anyone that tries to resist? And the same Country that is indiscriminately bombing the Civilian Population in another part of its neighbours Country? |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 14:14:05 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 14:14:05 GMT
Potentially. It's why it's key to crush Russia. Is this the Country that is occupying its neighbours land and systematically stealing that land by force and its Military shooting anyone that tries to resist? And the same Country that is indiscriminately bombing the Civilian Population in another part of its neighbours Country? It is. Don't worry Israel should have stopped months ago and Netanyahu is a cunt who needs to meet his maker like Putin needs to meet his. |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 14:21:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2024 14:21:16 GMT
i just get the feeling we are on the edge of a terrible precipice that will take countless lives and destroy large areas of our earth Potentially. It's why it's key to crush Russia. Just to confirm, personally, you're in favour of NATO bombing Russia and Iran? |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 14:22:21 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 14:22:21 GMT
Potentially. It's why it's key to crush Russia. Just to confirm, personally, you're in favour of NATO bombing Russia and Iran? Well we aren't bombing Russia and don't need to to crush them. We absolutely should be targeting Iranian drone and missile making sites yes. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 12, 2024 14:23:10 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 12, 2024 14:25:41 GMT
Just to confirm, personally, you're in favour of NATO bombing Russia and Iran? Well we aren't bombing Russia and don't need to to crush them. We absolutely should be targeting Iranian drone and missile making sites yes. So Iran should be free to target any countries drone and missile making facilities if they are supplying Israel the weapons to attack Gaza or the Saudi's to attack Yemen I assume? |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 14:27:17 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 14:27:17 GMT
Well we aren't bombing Russia and don't need to to crush them. We absolutely should be targeting Iranian drone and missile making sites yes. So Iran should be free to target any countries drone and missile making facilities if they are supplying Israel the weapons to attack Gaza or the Saudi's to attack Yemen I assume? If they fancy it. |
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 14:27:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2024 14:27:50 GMT
Just to confirm, personally, you're in favour of NATO bombing Russia and Iran? Well we aren't bombing Russia and don't need to to crush them. We absolutely should be targeting Iranian drone and missile making sites yes. Many military experts would disagree with you, when it comes to crushing Russia but would it be fair to assume that you would be in favour of it, if it became necessary, in the same way you advocate bombing Iran? |
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Post by stokeson on Jan 12, 2024 14:28:04 GMT
Lets not forget its an election year. Sunak is the new Maggie.....
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Israel
Jan 12, 2024 14:30:39 GMT
Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 12, 2024 14:30:39 GMT
Well we aren't bombing Russia and don't need to to crush them. We absolutely should be targeting Iranian drone and missile making sites yes. Many military experts would disagree with you, when it comes to crushing Russia but would it be fair to assume that you would be in favour of it, if it became necessary, in the same way you advocate bombing Iran? I don't think it'd be needed at all. If we gave Ukraine what they need, they'd do it for us and that would do the job. Russia is barely a second rate military nation as things stand. They just have lots of equipment and lots of meat to churn. Defeating them send the message to China. It's like if Russia was daft enough to attack Finland, I think the Finns alone would do a solid job of beating them. Beating them currently will save lives but is also very symbolic and a marker. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2024 14:33:52 GMT
Many military experts would disagree with you, when it comes to crushing Russia but would it be fair to assume that you would be in favour of it, if it became necessary, in the same way you advocate bombing Iran? I don't think it'd be needed at all. If we gave Ukraine what they need, they'd do it for us and that would do the job. Russia is barely a second rate military nation as things stand. They just have lots of equipment and lots of meat to churn. Defeating them send the message to China. It's like if Russia was daft enough to attack Finland, I think the Finns alone would do a solid job of beating them. Beating them currently will save lives but is also very symbolic and a marker. Not wanting to take this thread any further off track (yes I know I started it) I'll respond to this on the Ukraine thread if that's OK? |
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