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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2023 21:41:22 GMT
As somebody who worked in live music for years, the bands and their agents do have a lot of say in what venues they play at, not specific venues but the size of venues for sure.
By way of example, a band from the US is putting together a European tour and their other commitments back home mean they have allocated a maximum of 22 shows across the entire continent.
Now let's say that band is the size of somebody like (say) Queens of the Stoneage or The National, they've not got a big enough pull to definitely fill the Manchester Arena (20K capacity) or the Birmingham NEC (14K capacity) but if they were to play the Manchester Apollo or the Liverpool Empire (both around 3.5k) they would have to play TWO nights at those venues to satisfy demand because there isn't a 6-7k capacity concert space in the North Midlands or North West. But both the band and the agent don't want to do two night stints because they're on such a tight schedule. They'd much rather play one show at a bigger venue and get the same amount of ticket money for just one night's work.
Hence why a 6-7k size venue in Stoke, absolutely would work. The catchment area is absolutely huge, with Liverpool and Manchester to the North, Birmingham and Wales to the West, Nottingham to the East and Coventry to the south, with everywhere else in between and really good road and rail links to boot.
A new 3.5k capacity venue won't even be noticed by live promoters and agents because there's simply loads of 'em elsewhere.
Nice insight and unfortunately bad for the city by the sounds of it?
Well I wouldn't say it's necessarily bad but rather, a missed opportunity.
I don't see how it's going to do much more than steal bands from the Viccy Hall, rather than bring extra (and to me that would be the important bit) concerts to the city as well as those that are already staged at that venue.
I can see absolutely no reason at all why Stoke couldn't service these size of acts (our geographical location is our biggest asset) ...
EDIT: I think this poster from Black Sabbath's UK tour in 1982 illustrates the point I'm trying to make perfectly, look at London and Newcastle (both 2 nighters) ... where is the Liverpool 2 night show, where is the Brum 2 night show and where is the Manchester 2 night show? there was no need for any of them because we could utilise the perfectly, geographically placed Stafford Bingley Hall, to service them all and for just one night instead, happy days! And just look at the location of the shops selling the tickets for that Bingley Hall concert - what a catchment area (and 40 years on, nothing has changed)!
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 24, 2023 22:11:42 GMT
Nice insight and unfortunately bad for the city by the sounds of it?
Well I wouldn't say it's necessarily bad but rather, a missed opportunity.
I don't see how it's going to do much more than steal bands from the Viccy Hall, rather than bring extra (and to me that would be the important bit) concerts to the city as well as those that are already staged at that venue.
I can see absolutely no reason at all why Stoke couldn't service these size of acts ...
Now there’s a city that gets things right. A great place
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Post by chuffedstokie on Apr 27, 2023 19:40:07 GMT
Salvage hunters at Middleport right now.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Apr 28, 2023 6:34:15 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on May 10, 2023 8:53:03 GMT
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Post by toppercorner on May 10, 2023 10:05:25 GMT
People assume it's up to the acts that choose the venues on tour. They don't. Their promoter will provide an initial list of a tour to artist mgmt, and then mgmt show the band. The band simply say "yeah cool" and carry on. It's not a case of any artist saying, "yeah, but i'd prefer Hull over Stoke" it just doesn't work that way. The promoters will only look to book venues where they will sell tickets, merch and a percentage of the bar. However, with hugely increased touring costs and show production, tickets prices have to go up. Because of Brexit and the cabbotage rules, bands can't tour Europe like they used to (this is all self-inflicted on the industry), so need a venue of X capacity at Y cost to Z ticket price to make it worthwhile, hence why bands are touring larger venues. In my opinion, we do need a 5k plus capacity arean to make it happen, 3.6k (or whatever has been quoted) is a little ona knife edge size.
As somebody who worked in live music for years, the bands and their agents do have a lot of say in what venues they play at, not specific venues but the size of venues for sure.
By way of example, a band from the US is putting together a European tour and their other commitments back home mean they have allocated a maximum of 22 shows across the entire continent.
Now let's say that band is the size of somebody like (say) Queens of the Stoneage or The National, they've not got a big enough pull to definitely fill the Manchester Arena (20K capacity) or the Birmingham NEC (14K capacity) but if they were to play the Manchester Apollo or the Liverpool Empire (both around 3.5k) they would have to play TWO nights at those venues to satisfy demand because there isn't a 6-7k capacity concert space in the North Midlands or North West. But both the band and the agent don't want to do two night stints because they're on such a tight schedule. They'd much rather play one show at a bigger venue and get the same amount of ticket money for just one night's work.
Hence why a 6-7k size venue in Stoke, absolutely would work we'd be providing a facility in the North that other cities don't have, it's the reason that back in the day the Stafford Bingley Hall was so popular on the circuit . The catchment area is absolutely huge, with Liverpool and Manchester to the North, Birmingham and Wales to the West, Nottingham to the East and Coventry to the south, with everywhere else in between and really good road and rail links to boot.
A new 3.5k capacity venue won't even be noticed by live promoters and agents because there's simply loads of 'em elsewhere.
Apologies Paul, I didn't see your reply to this. Yes, you've said it more succinctly than I could have. It's about revenue at the end of the day, and a smaller 3.5k arena will miss out on acts who need a larger arena (minimum 5k) to make it worth their while. And i agree that it would be taking away from the Viccy Hall, rather than complementing it in the city with, bands who can sell out the respective venue sizes.
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Post by thevoid on May 10, 2023 10:31:38 GMT
I don't see how we could sustain a big arena. We can't build a 10k one, see it struggle to attract acts (which it inevitably would) and then shrug and go 'oh well'. We'd just spunked tens of millions up the wall. We're too close to Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Nottingham and not far from Sheffield/Leeds. What can we offer that they can't? Oatcakes? The public transport system being a joke too doesn't help, not to mention the train station being as far away as it is from the supposed arena location. We can't tell strangers to the city to just walk through Hanley Park (you had people telling those who had come to watch the Lionesses to 'just walk from Trentham to the ground' when their bus didn't turn up). I'd prefer a convention centre if we had the money to develop something. I just think we have too many problems and are looking for some major things to make them go away, whether it'll be a tram, arena, etc. Go to a decent city and the bars and restaurants are bustling at night time, Hanley just seems to switch the lights off at 9pm. Not that there's much on late anyway- Reflex? Fuck that. It doesn't help when a lot of major bus routes in the city stop operating between 7-9pm either. Before, you could decide to go out last minute and get a bus after 10pm into town, not so much now. And if you're travelling in on your own to meet people from somewhere like Biddulph, you don't want to have to pay north of £20 for taxis before you've even bought a pint.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 10, 2023 10:48:16 GMT
I don't see how we could sustain a big arena. We can't build a 10k one, see it struggle to attract acts (which it inevitably would) and then shrug and go 'oh well'. We'd just spunked tens of millions up the wall. We're too close to Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Nottingham and not far from Sheffield/Leeds. What can we offer that they can't? Oatcakes? The public transport system being a joke too doesn't help, not to mention the train station being as far away as it is from the supposed arena location. We can't tell strangers to the city to just walk through Hanley Park (you had people telling those who had come to watch the Lionesses to 'just walk from Trentham to the ground' when their bus didn't turn up). I'd prefer a convention centre if we had the money to develop something. I just think we have too many problems and are looking for some major things to make them go away, whether it'll be a tram, arena, etc. Go to a decent city and the bars and restaurants are bustling at night time, Hanley just seems to switch the lights off at 9pm. Not that there's much on late anyway- Reflex? Fuck that. It doesn't help when a lot of major bus routes in the city stop operating between 7-9pm either. Before, you could decide to go out last minute and get a bus after 10pm into town, not so much now. And if you're traveling in on your own to meet people from somewhere like Biddulph, you don't want to have to pay north of £20 for taxis before you've even bought a pint. Exactly this. The lack of regular and reliable public transport is a major issue.
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Post by knype on May 10, 2023 11:27:22 GMT
Go to a decent city and the bars and restaurants are bustling at night time, Hanley just seems to switch the lights off at 9pm. Not that there's much on late anyway- Reflex? Fuck that. It doesn't help when a lot of major bus routes in the city stop operating between 7-9pm either. Before, you could decide to go out last minute and get a bus after 10pm into town, not so much now. And if you're traveling in on your own to meet people from somewhere like Biddulph, you don't want to have to pay north of £20 for taxis before you've even bought a pint. Exactly this. The lack of regular and reliable public transport is a major issue. Do you think that reliable public transport will help Hanley? And that this is the missing link?
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Post by Eggybread on May 10, 2023 11:37:27 GMT
All our area needs are better paid jobs,everything else will just fall (potholes aside) into place.Nothing else, no fancy car parks ,flower beds or war memorials. It is up to our council to make sure this happens and it is the main reason why our city has become what it is today.Successive councils are to blame,we just replaced the mines,pot banks and Shelton bar works with warehouse and the cheapest labour we can find.
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Post by lordb on May 10, 2023 11:38:39 GMT
Exactly this. The lack of regular and reliable public transport is a major issue. Do you think that reliable public transport will help Hanley? And that this is the missing link? of course it would only one of many issues though
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Post by knype on May 10, 2023 11:43:46 GMT
Do you think that reliable public transport will help Hanley? And that this is the missing link? of course it would only one of many issues though It firstly has to have places to visit to attract the customers to use public transport. It secondly needs a good clean up, both of the streets and the dreg heads
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 10, 2023 11:53:50 GMT
Do you think that reliable public transport will help Hanley? And that this is the missing link? of course it would only one of many issues though Indeed, it's one of many.
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Post by lagwafis on May 10, 2023 14:00:44 GMT
Proximity has always been a problem. The main locations aren't a million miles away from each other, but they're not exactly in walking distance either.
It's a shame Staffs University and the train station aren't that little bit closer to encourage more footfall. Likewise, some of the bigger employers out on Festival Park (bet365, Vodafone etc). If you worked there I doubt it'd be worth a stroll into town on lunch break or wait around for a bus to turn up every 15/20 minutes (if you're lucky).
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Post by LGH87 on May 10, 2023 14:07:42 GMT
Do you think that reliable public transport will help Hanley? And that this is the missing link? of course it would only one of many issues though I don't know a single person who would catch the bus in to town on a night out. Not one.
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Post by thevoid on May 10, 2023 16:30:05 GMT
of course it would only one of many issues though I don't know a single person who would catch the bus in to town on a night out. Not one. Well I wouldn't as if I go anywhere around here it's Newcastle which requires a taxi rather than multiple buses and a journey time that's longer than a flight to Amsterdam!
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Post by hoppo96 on May 10, 2023 16:35:06 GMT
The geography doesn't help, if the train station, city centre, university and festival park were all within a mile or so of each other that would have been so much more helpful. But alas.
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Post by mutters on May 10, 2023 16:57:14 GMT
of course it would only one of many issues though I don't know a single person who would catch the bus in to town on a night out. Not one. Probably because there are no late buses back - after say 10pm, if not earlier
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Post by ashleyscfc on May 10, 2023 16:59:17 GMT
The geography doesn't help, if the train station, city centre, university and festival park were all within a mile or so of each other that would have been so much more helpful. But alas. What a tram system should be for, and bring the other towns in to play as well
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Post by thehartshillbadger on May 10, 2023 17:01:53 GMT
Cable cars!
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Post by elystokie on May 10, 2023 17:16:55 GMT
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Post by iancransonsknees on May 10, 2023 17:19:56 GMT
Used to have them on the festival park site.
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Post by thevoid on May 10, 2023 17:21:15 GMT
The geography doesn't help, if the train station, city centre, university and festival park were all within a mile or so of each other that would have been so much more helpful. But alas. It's a shame nothing's been done canalside near China Garden in terms of bars/places to eat. It's right in the middle of Newcastle and Hanley, close to several big offices/employers, Odeon and that newish housing estate that must attract people with decent incomes.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on May 10, 2023 17:21:30 GMT
Used to have them on the festival park site. Cheaper than a tram system?
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 10, 2023 17:24:42 GMT
Used to have them on the festival park site. And Trentham, 3.24 in ...
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Post by iancransonsknees on May 10, 2023 17:25:05 GMT
Used to have them on the festival park site. Cheaper than a tram system? Probably not. It's all pipe dreams so I'd go for an underground system.
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Post by elystokie on May 10, 2023 17:31:39 GMT
Used to have them on the festival park site. And Trentham, 3.24 in ... I'd forgotten all about those ones!
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Post by thehartshillbadger on May 10, 2023 17:34:01 GMT
And Trentham, 3.24 in ... I'd forgotten all about those ones! Those little choo choo trains would do
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Post by thehartshillbadger on May 10, 2023 17:42:38 GMT
Is there an estimated finish date for The Goods Yard? Of phase one at least which doesn’t include the hotel
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Post by lordb on May 10, 2023 19:16:02 GMT
of course it would only one of many issues though I don't know a single person who would catch the bus in to town on a night out. Not one. I used to as did lots of others Got somewhere with good transport, like Nottingham and you see people doing exactly that
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