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Post by elystokie on Apr 16, 2023 12:22:26 GMT
Unless they personally gain from it, probably not. I don’t see how they wouldn’t tbh. Getting the students working on real world massive events would be huge. I think he's on about the council officials getting 'their personal share' of the overall budget, could be wrong.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Apr 16, 2023 13:07:05 GMT
I don’t see how they wouldn’t tbh. Getting the students working on real world massive events would be huge. I think he's on about the council officials getting 'their personal share' of the overall budget, could be wrong. It's a councillor lead authority remember, they're fond of stating that. I think they want personal credit for all the car parks.
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Post by elystokie on Apr 16, 2023 13:36:05 GMT
I think he's on about the council officials getting 'their personal share' of the overall budget, could be wrong. It's a councillor lead authority remember, they're fond of stating that. I think they want personal credit for all the car parks. I know little to nothing about the structure of these sort of bodies but I've seen enough when out and about to cause me to suspect there's something amiss somewhere along the line, whether it's sheer incompetence, someone on the take, or a combination of the two I've no idea.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Apr 16, 2023 13:54:15 GMT
It's a councillor lead authority remember, they're fond of stating that. I think they want personal credit for all the car parks. I know little to nothing about the structure of these sort of bodies but I've seen enough when out and about to cause me to suspect there's something amiss somewhere along the line, whether it's sheer incompetence, someone on the take, or a combination of the two I've no idea. To be fair, in my experience, whichever administration is leading the authority the results are usually the same. Not wanting to provide excuses for the incumbents, but the cuts they've had (along with all other authorities) to contend with are eye watering. The COVID giveaway is disgusting when you consider how this could have been spent. That's why I'm so annoyed with the failure of the district heat network and the £19m of funding it has swallowed so far that has been wasted. It's our HS2 effectively. Hopefully they'll be held to account in the next few weeks.
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Post by elystokie on Apr 16, 2023 14:12:19 GMT
I know little to nothing about the structure of these sort of bodies but I've seen enough when out and about to cause me to suspect there's something amiss somewhere along the line, whether it's sheer incompetence, someone on the take, or a combination of the two I've no idea. To be fair, in my experience, whichever administration is leading the authority the results are usually the same. Not wanting to provide excuses for the incumbents, but the cuts they've had (along with all other authorities) to contend with are eye watering. The COVID giveaway is disgusting when you consider how this could have been spent. That's why I'm so annoyed with the failure of the district heat network and the £19m of funding it has swallowed so far that has been wasted. It's our HS2 effectively. Hopefully they'll be held to account in the next few weeks. Was the heat network failure down to the council? The only thing I know about it is that Leek Rd was dug up for months on end thanks to it and I haven't seen or heard anything about it since.
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Post by thevoid on Apr 16, 2023 14:30:14 GMT
This is from the recent Valorant 'Lock In' event in Brazil, I'm sure it'd be easy enough to fit something like this inside the new arena. For older, more established esports like Counter Strike or League Of Legends you'd need a bigger arena. CS LOL Sentinel - 'Hanley to host 2032 Pong World Cup' I'm all for it, if it means one less day of SOT Live crowbarring another pointless story about Eddie Hall in
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Post by iancransonsknees on Apr 16, 2023 14:44:29 GMT
To be fair, in my experience, whichever administration is leading the authority the results are usually the same. Not wanting to provide excuses for the incumbents, but the cuts they've had (along with all other authorities) to contend with are eye watering. The COVID giveaway is disgusting when you consider how this could have been spent. That's why I'm so annoyed with the failure of the district heat network and the £19m of funding it has swallowed so far that has been wasted. It's our HS2 effectively. Hopefully they'll be held to account in the next few weeks. Was the heat network failure down to the council? The only thing I know about it is that Leek Rd was dug up for months on end thanks to it and I haven't seen or heard anything about it since. Clearly. They applied for the funding and developed the plans for it to run around the city. The theory went back to the 80s that the 'hot' rocks under Etruria valley provided sufficient heat. You shouldn't secure £19m of investment in this day and age and not be held accountable when it fails. They even knocked down a council asset in Squires View on the back of the 6th form college to house the infrastructure for it. Guess what else they built on there too, a car park!
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Post by elystokie on Apr 16, 2023 15:33:22 GMT
Was the heat network failure down to the council? The only thing I know about it is that Leek Rd was dug up for months on end thanks to it and I haven't seen or heard anything about it since. Clearly. They applied for the funding and developed the plans for it to run around the city. The theory went back to the 80s that the 'hot' rocks under Etruria valley provided sufficient heat. You shouldn't secure £19m of investment in this day and age and not be held accountable when it fails. They even knocked down a council asset in Squires View on the back of the 6th form college to house the infrastructure for it. Guess what else they built on there too, a car park! So there was never any heat to begin with? I thought it was summat to do with the old pits if I'm honest, plenty hot enough down there when I went down.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Apr 16, 2023 15:52:13 GMT
Clearly. They applied for the funding and developed the plans for it to run around the city. The theory went back to the 80s that the 'hot' rocks under Etruria valley provided sufficient heat. You shouldn't secure £19m of investment in this day and age and not be held accountable when it fails. They even knocked down a council asset in Squires View on the back of the 6th form college to house the infrastructure for it. Guess what else they built on there too, a car park! So there was never any heat to begin with? I thought it was summat to do with the old pits if I'm honest, plenty hot enough down there when I went down. Not as I'm aware, it's always been to do with the geology we sit above. It's not about flooding old mine workings, it's using the heated rocks as a heat exchanger. The mine workings are interesting when you read up about radon release.
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Post by thevoid on Apr 16, 2023 16:35:24 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 16, 2023 16:38:55 GMT
Was the heat network failure down to the council? The only thing I know about it is that Leek Rd was dug up for months on end thanks to it and I haven't seen or heard anything about it since. Clearly. They applied for the funding and developed the plans for it to run around the city. The theory went back to the 80s that the 'hot' rocks under Etruria valley provided sufficient heat. You shouldn't secure £19m of investment in this day and age and not be held accountable when it fails. They even knocked down a council asset in Squires View on the back of the 6th form college to house the infrastructure for it. Guess what else they built on there too, a car park! Most of that site is the leftovers of the heat system yard isn’t it? It’d actually be a really useful and needed car park but it’s just wasteland on the whole.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 16, 2023 16:39:19 GMT
There must be some seriously entertaining stuff planned if they’re putting all this infrastructure in place 👀
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 16, 2023 17:42:45 GMT
There must be some seriously entertaining stuff planned if they’re putting all this infrastructure in place 👀 Maybe they think tailgating will take off in the UK and they just want to be prepared for it? Given that they aren’t putting anything else in the general area, I’m not sure what they would tailgate to though 😂
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Post by fortressbritannia on Apr 16, 2023 18:36:12 GMT
Visited the market hall in Crewe today. Stoke is crying out for something like that
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Apr 21, 2023 8:30:21 GMT
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Post by Eggybread on Apr 21, 2023 8:35:48 GMT
So will it be the smallest in the country?
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Apr 21, 2023 8:38:55 GMT
So will it be the smallest in the country? Not really sure, there might be smaller ones but Wikipedia seemed to think anything under 5,000 wasn't worth mentioning! It's better than nothing and I want to be positive about it- but at that size, what kind of acts will it attract to the city?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 21, 2023 8:41:34 GMT
So will it be the smallest in the country? Not really sure, there might be smaller ones but Wikipedia seemed to think anything under 5,000 wasn't worth mentioning! It's better than nothing and I want to be positive about it- but at that size, what kind of acts will it attract to the city? Robot Wars
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Post by cheadlepotter on Apr 21, 2023 9:01:28 GMT
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Post by Eggybread on Apr 21, 2023 9:32:04 GMT
The Hull one is not my vision of an arena,its awful.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 21, 2023 10:42:38 GMT
So will it be the smallest in the country? Only Wikipedia but this what is classed as an "arena" rather than a "indoor hall/small venue" Co-Op Arena, Manchester - 25,000 (under construction) AO Arena, Manchester – 21,000 The O2 Arena, London – 20,000 Earls Court Exhibition Centre (1887–2014), London – 20,000 Utilita Arena Birmingham (formerly Barclaycard Arena/NIA), Birmingham – 16,000 P&J Live, Aberdeen – 16,000 Resorts World Arena (formerly Genting Arena, LG Arena, NEC Arena), Birmingham – 13,928 to 15,643 First Direct Arena, Leeds – 13,500 Utilita Arena Sheffield, Sheffield – 13,500 OVO Hydro, Glasgow – 13,000 OVO Arena Wembley (formerly Empire Pool), London – 12,500 London Arena (1989–2006), London – 12,500 SEC Centre, Glasgow – 12,500 Utilita Arena Newcastle, Newcastle upon Tyne – 11,000 M&S Bank Arena, Liverpool – 11,000; ECHO 2 – 4000; the auditorium – 1350 Motorpoint Arena Nottingham, Nottingham – 10,000 Cardiff International Arena, Cardiff – 7,500 (standing), 5,000 (seated) Copper Box Arena, London – 7,500 Lee Valley VeloPark, London – 7,000
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Post by thevoid on Apr 21, 2023 13:14:29 GMT
So will it be the smallest in the country? Not really sure, there might be smaller ones but Wikipedia seemed to think anything under 5,000 wasn't worth mentioning! It's better than nothing and I want to be positive about it- but at that size, what kind of acts will it attract to the city? Flo and Joan? Richard Digance's comeback tour? The Blow Football international series? Arena seems to be pushing it anyway, arenette may be more appropriate.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 21, 2023 17:44:20 GMT
So many false dawns for our city centre. To say I’m sceptical would be an understatement. Let’s see what transpires with the City Centric project in Stoke to hopefully see some green shoots in this ever depressing city.
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Post by thevoid on Apr 21, 2023 19:33:59 GMT
So many false dawns for our city centre. To say I’m sceptical would be an understatement. Let’s see what transpires with the City Centric project in Stoke to hopefully see some green shoots in this ever depressing city. It really is tragic when you compare Hanley now with what it was. Not sure you can point to one particular reason or time either, it just seems like it's been a gradual decline. Problem is, when a place develops a bad reputation it's difficult to shake off
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Post by ashleyscfc on Apr 21, 2023 22:37:38 GMT
It’s too small, it’s the wrong shape. It will compete with the regent and Victoria hall.
It needs to be flexible to offer what nowhere in the city can (boxing, darts, 5 a side, ice hockey, e sports) A small Nottingham arena is what we need. 5k plus.
Alas there’s no funding or realistic prospect of this any time soon so it doesn’t matter.
The city needs a proper transport system with trams similar to Coventry, buses we own and control and reopen some of the old stations and get trains back in the moorlands. Sorting that would make a much bigger difference to the area than any arena.
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Post by hoppo96 on Apr 24, 2023 11:42:26 GMT
I don't see how we could sustain a big arena. We can't build a 10k one, see it struggle to attract acts (which it inevitably would) and then shrug and go 'oh well'. We'd just spunked tens of millions up the wall.
We're too close to Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Nottingham and not far from Sheffield/Leeds. What can we offer that they can't? Oatcakes?
The public transport system being a joke too doesn't help, not to mention the train station being as far away as it is from the supposed arena location. We can't tell strangers to the city to just walk through Hanley Park (you had people telling those who had come to watch the Lionesses to 'just walk from Trentham to the ground' when their bus didn't turn up).
I'd prefer a convention centre if we had the money to develop something.
I just think we have too many problems and are looking for some major things to make them go away, whether it'll be a tram, arena, etc.
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Post by toppercorner on Apr 24, 2023 11:56:21 GMT
People assume it's up to the acts that choose the venues on tour. They don't.
Their promoter will provide an initial list of a tour to artist mgmt, and then mgmt show the band. The band simply say "yeah cool" and carry on.
It's not a case of any artist saying, "yeah, but i'd prefer Hull over Stoke" it just doesn't work that way.
The promoters will only look to book venues where they will sell tickets, merch and a percentage of the bar.
However, with hugely increased touring costs and show production, tickets prices have to go up. Because of Brexit and the cabbotage rules, bands can't tour Europe like they used to (this is all self-inflicted on the industry), so need a venue of X capacity at Y cost to Z ticket price to make it worthwhile, hence why bands are touring larger venues.
In my opinion, we do need a 5k plus capacity arean to make it happen, 3.6k (or whatever has been quoted) is a little ona knife edge size.
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Post by lordb on Apr 24, 2023 12:06:26 GMT
I don't see how we could sustain a big arena. We can't build a 10k one, see it struggle to attract acts (which it inevitably would) and then shrug and go 'oh well'. We'd just spunked tens of millions up the wall. We're too close to Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Nottingham and not far from Sheffield/Leeds. What can we offer that they can't? Oatcakes? The public transport system being a joke too doesn't help, not to mention the train station being as far away as it is from the supposed arena location. We can't tell strangers to the city to just walk through Hanley Park (you had people telling those who had come to watch the Lionesses to 'just walk from Trentham to the ground' when their bus didn't turn up). I'd prefer a convention centre if we had the money to develop something. I just think we have too many problems and are looking for some major things to make them go away, whether it'll be a tram, arena, etc. agree we couldn't sustain a 10000 seat venue however we could sustain a 5000 seat venue 3500 is too small
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2023 21:25:59 GMT
People assume it's up to the acts that choose the venues on tour. They don't. Their promoter will provide an initial list of a tour to artist mgmt, and then mgmt show the band. The band simply say "yeah cool" and carry on. It's not a case of any artist saying, "yeah, but i'd prefer Hull over Stoke" it just doesn't work that way. The promoters will only look to book venues where they will sell tickets, merch and a percentage of the bar. However, with hugely increased touring costs and show production, tickets prices have to go up. Because of Brexit and the cabbotage rules, bands can't tour Europe like they used to (this is all self-inflicted on the industry), so need a venue of X capacity at Y cost to Z ticket price to make it worthwhile, hence why bands are touring larger venues. In my opinion, we do need a 5k plus capacity arean to make it happen, 3.6k (or whatever has been quoted) is a little ona knife edge size.
As somebody who worked in live music for years, the bands and their agents do have a lot of say in what venues they play at, not specific venues but the size of venues for sure.
By way of example, a band from the US is putting together a European tour and their other commitments back home mean they have allocated a maximum of 22 shows across the entire continent.
Now let's say that band is the size of somebody like (say) Queens of the Stoneage or The National, they've not got a big enough pull to definitely fill the Manchester Arena (20K capacity) or the Birmingham NEC (14K capacity) but if they were to play the Manchester Apollo or the Liverpool Empire (both around 3.5k) they would have to play TWO nights at those venues to satisfy demand because there isn't a 6-7k capacity concert space in the North Midlands or North West. But both the band and the agent don't want to do two night stints because they're on such a tight schedule. They'd much rather play one show at a bigger venue and get the same amount of ticket money for just one night's work.
Hence why a 6-7k size venue in Stoke, absolutely would work we'd be providing a facility in the North that other cities don't have, it's the reason that back in the day the Stafford Bingley Hall was so popular on the circuit . The catchment area is absolutely huge, with Liverpool and Manchester to the North, Birmingham and Wales to the West, Nottingham to the East and Coventry to the south, with everywhere else in between and really good road and rail links to boot.
A new 3.5k capacity venue won't even be noticed by live promoters and agents because there's simply loads of 'em elsewhere.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 24, 2023 21:28:07 GMT
People assume it's up to the acts that choose the venues on tour. They don't. Their promoter will provide an initial list of a tour to artist mgmt, and then mgmt show the band. The band simply say "yeah cool" and carry on. It's not a case of any artist saying, "yeah, but i'd prefer Hull over Stoke" it just doesn't work that way. The promoters will only look to book venues where they will sell tickets, merch and a percentage of the bar. However, with hugely increased touring costs and show production, tickets prices have to go up. Because of Brexit and the cabbotage rules, bands can't tour Europe like they used to (this is all self-inflicted on the industry), so need a venue of X capacity at Y cost to Z ticket price to make it worthwhile, hence why bands are touring larger venues. In my opinion, we do need a 5k plus capacity arean to make it happen, 3.6k (or whatever has been quoted) is a little ona knife edge size.
As somebody who worked in live music for years, the bands and their agents do have a lot of say in what venues they play at, not specific venues but the size of venues for sure.
By way of example, a band from the US is putting together a European tour and their other commitments back home mean they have allocated a maximum of 22 shows across the entire continent.
Now let's say that band is the size of somebody like (say) Queens of the Stoneage or The National, they've not got a big enough pull to definitely fill the Manchester Arena (20K capacity) or the Birmingham NEC (14K capacity) but if they were to play the Manchester Apollo or the Liverpool Empire (both around 3.5k) they would have to play TWO nights at those venues to satisfy demand because there isn't a 6-7k capacity concert space in the North Midlands or North West. But both the band and the agent don't want to do two night stints because they're on such a tight schedule. They'd much rather play one show at a bigger venue and get the same amount of ticket money for just one night's work.
Hence why a 6-7k size venue in Stoke, absolutely would work. The catchment area is absolutely huge, with Liverpool and Manchester to the North, Birmingham and Wales to the West, Nottingham to the East and Coventry to the south, with everywhere else in between and really good road and rail links to boot.
A new 3.5k capacity venue won't even be noticed by live promoters and agents because there's simply loads of 'em elsewhere.
Nice insight and unfortunately bad for the city by the sounds of it?
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