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Post by lordb on Oct 6, 2024 17:34:39 GMT
If people are concerned/worried about immigration, what are they allowed to do without being called racist, far right and potentially getting sent down for 3 years? Has immigration from the 3rd world made Britain better and safer? Yes to the first No difference to the second |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 6, 2024 19:23:40 GMT
That sounds like it's from before labour came to power. When is it from? Yes it is mate but considering the figures that came out today he’s doing/done nothing about it Which bit of he isn't that bothered and nobody who voted for him does either? This is your issue not Starmers - he quite rightly doesn't see it as the big deal you do. |
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Post by Northy on Oct 7, 2024 10:31:44 GMT
So to cut to the chase, is she saying, that we need more white people to have babies, so we don't need to import more brown people? If (as she claims), there aren't enough people having kids in this country to satisfy the labour market, then why does it matter if they're born here or somewhere else, in order to satisfy it? No, she didn't say that at all, she just said we need to increase the birth rate, she didn't mention colour at all, that's just your assumption. I wonder if she'd like to join me in trying to increase the birth rate  |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 7, 2024 10:52:22 GMT
So to cut to the chase, is she saying, that we need more white people to have babies, so we don't need to import more brown people? If (as she claims), there aren't enough people having kids in this country to satisfy the labour market, then why does it matter if they're born here or somewhere else, in order to satisfy it? No, she didn't say that at all, she just said we need to increase the birth rate, she didn't mention colour at all, that's just your assumption. I wonder if she'd like to join me in trying to increase the birth rate I think you might want to think it through a little further, especially in the context of the entirety of my question. Maybe have a glance at wannabee's answers, he understood the point. |
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Post by Northy on Oct 7, 2024 11:16:54 GMT
No, she didn't say that at all, she just said we need to increase the birth rate, she didn't mention colour at all, that's just your assumption. I wonder if she'd like to join me in trying to increase the birth rate I think you might want to think it through a little further, especially in the context of the entirety of my question. Maybe have a glance at wannabee's answers, he understood the point. You asked - So to cut to the chase, is she saying, that we need more white people to have babies, so we don't need to import more brown people?She didn't mention any colour at all, whether being born or through immigration, they could all come from any colour, so no, I don't need to think it through, it was you bringing colour into it. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 7, 2024 12:03:12 GMT
I think you might want to think it through a little further, especially in the context of the entirety of my question. Maybe have a glance at wannabee's answers, he understood the point. You asked - So to cut to the chase, is she saying, that we need more white people to have babies, so we don't need to import more brown people?She didn't mention any colour at all, whether being born or through immigration, they could all come from any colour, so no, I don't need to think it through, it was you bringing colour into it. She didn't NEED to mention colour, blimey, that's the very essence of the point. As I say, other people got it. But hey ho ... |
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 7, 2024 13:14:10 GMT
If people are concerned/worried about immigration, what are they allowed to do without being called racist, far right and potentially getting sent down for 3 years? Has immigration from the 3rd world made Britain better and safer? The above statistics should answer your second question. The UK is short of health staff although there are a record 1.4 million. Just as other European and other countries around the world. There is a world shortage of health workers. www.euronews.com/health/2024/09/12/doctor-shortages-low-pay-and-overtime-europes-hospitals-are-under-the-weatherThere are other occupations where the UK relies on immigrant workers including harvesting, abertoir workers, hospitality, building industry, etc. Sometimes it is a case of exporting the jobs instead of importing the workers, for example, half of the UK waters fishing quota goes to foreign companies because it cannot be taken up by British fishing companies who can't get the staff. Last week I was having to persuade a neighbour who runs a window cleaning business to clean my windows, conservatory, etc. But he was saying he is overloaded with demand; maybe he should import some immigrants! Lots of employers can't get the staff they need. A food factory I know in Malton is thriving, supplying M & S with ready meals (as advertised on tele), but to get the staff they need to bus them in from all round the area. Our economy is thriving with full employment and the lowest unemployment since the 1970s. The country is desperate for worker immigrants in numerous walks of life. Please don't use the term 3rd world, countries like India are far more developed in some respects like steel industry than Europe. There is huge worldwide competition for workers as birth rates decline. www.reuters.com/markets/europe/germanys-shortage-workers-is-biggest-risk-growth-minister-says-2024-02-21/ano post pandemic: www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-labor-shortage |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 7, 2024 13:37:21 GMT
If people are concerned/worried about immigration, what are they allowed to do without being called racist, far right and potentially getting sent down for 3 years? Has immigration from the 3rd world made Britain better and safer? The answer to the first question is: do some research beyond reading ill-informed, deliberately inflammatory twitter feeds and right-wing newspaper front pages (who seem to be obsessed with the topic and obsessed in an entirely negative way). Hopefully, any 'curiosity' (notice I avoided words like 'worried/concerned' as these tend to imply something of a made-up mind already) in understanding the positive and negative impacts of immigration will then be a well-founded and rounded one, based on robustly gathered data, not knee-jerk, click-bait, shit-stirring, which is what so much reporting of immigration comprises. And the answer to the second, apart from being intrinsically linked to the approach to the first, is that it depends entirely on how you assess better and safer. Do you focus on terrorism and grooming gangs, for instance, their concern over what's going on in Gaza? Or do you focus on the numerous jobs being done in the health service and other sectors which might otherwise be unfilled, the additional taxes that result, the positive contributions to food, music and art etc etc? I'd suggest that any sensible person capable of seeing all the different sides to that question would, at the very least, come down somewhere in the middle ie the vast majority of immigrants simply want to work, earn money, abide by the law, raise a family and be left alone, just like the rest of us who happened to be born in the UK, and are not terrorists or paedophiles. Which conclusion, you'd hope, would prevent falling into the trap of believing the shit-stirring and scaremongering the likes of Tommy Robinson, Nigel Farage and the right-wing press indulge in so regularly. |
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Post by Northy on Oct 8, 2024 6:51:53 GMT
You asked - So to cut to the chase, is she saying, that we need more white people to have babies, so we don't need to import more brown people?She didn't mention any colour at all, whether being born or through immigration, they could all come from any colour, so no, I don't need to think it through, it was you bringing colour into it. She didn't NEED to mention colour, blimey, that's the very essence of the point. As I say, other people got it. But hey ho ... No, the babies can come from a multitude of different heritage backgrounds that we have in this country, it's just you bringing colour into it, but hey ho, as Morgan Freeman said, to stop racism, stop talking about colour. |
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Post by emretezzy on Oct 8, 2024 9:15:06 GMT
If people are concerned/worried about immigration, what are they allowed to do without being called racist, far right and potentially getting sent down for 3 years? Has immigration from the 3rd world made Britain better and safer? The above statistics should answer your second question. The UK is short of health staff although there are a record 1.4 million. Just as other European and other countries around the world. There is a world shortage of health workers. www.euronews.com/health/2024/09/12/doctor-shortages-low-pay-and-overtime-europes-hospitals-are-under-the-weatherThere are other occupations where the UK relies on immigrant workers including harvesting, abertoir workers, hospitality, building industry, etc. Sometimes it is a case of exporting the jobs instead of importing the workers, for example, half of the UK waters fishing quota goes to foreign companies because it cannot be taken up by British fishing companies who can't get the staff. Last week I was having to persuade a neighbour who runs a window cleaning business to clean my windows, conservatory, etc. But he was saying he is overloaded with demand; maybe he should import some immigrants! Lots of employers can't get the staff they need. A food factory I know in Malton is thriving, supplying M & S with ready meals (as advertised on tele), but to get the staff they need to bus them in from all round the area. Our economy is thriving with full employment and the lowest unemployment since the 1970s. The country is desperate for worker immigrants in numerous walks of life. Please don't use the term 3rd world, countries like India are far more developed in some respects like steel industry than Europe. There is huge worldwide competition for workers as birth rates decline. www.reuters.com/markets/europe/germanys-shortage-workers-is-biggest-risk-growth-minister-says-2024-02-21/ano post pandemic: www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-labor-shortageWhat all the left fail to get their heads around is, 99% of people opposing migrant crossings aren't anti-immigration. I've been an expat before. What they are opposing is illegal immigration. Unsolicited people crossing who jump on a deliveroo bike, get trafficked into slave labour or abuse. Any normal person agrees with what you have posted, immigrants who do qualified jobs here are absolutely brilliant. |
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Post by emretezzy on Oct 8, 2024 9:21:40 GMT
If people are concerned/worried about immigration, what are they allowed to do without being called racist, far right and potentially getting sent down for 3 years? Has immigration from the 3rd world made Britain better and safer? The answer to the first question is: do some research beyond reading ill-informed, deliberately inflammatory twitter feeds and right-wing newspaper front pages (who seem to be obsessed with the topic and obsessed in an entirely negative way). Hopefully, any 'curiosity' (notice I avoided words like 'worried/concerned' as these tend to imply something of a made-up mind already) in understanding the positive and negative impacts of immigration will then be a well-founded and rounded one, based on robustly gathered data, not knee-jerk, click-bait, shit-stirring, which is what so much reporting of immigration comprises. And the answer to the second, apart from being intrinsically linked to the approach to the first, is that it depends entirely on how you assess better and safer. Do you focus on terrorism and grooming gangs, for instance, their concern over what's going on in Gaza? Or do you focus on the numerous jobs being done in the health service and other sectors which might otherwise be unfilled, the additional taxes that result, the positive contributions to food, music and art etc etc? I'd suggest that any sensible person capable of seeing all the different sides to that question would, at the very least, come down somewhere in the middle ie the vast majority of immigrants simply want to work, earn money, abide by the law, raise a family and be left alone, just like the rest of us who happened to be born in the UK, and are not terrorists or paedophiles. Which conclusion, you'd hope, would prevent falling into the trap of believing the shit-stirring and scaremongering the likes of Tommy Robinson, Nigel Farage and the right-wing press indulge in so regularly. That's the lefty crap you get hit with. There is one side who doesn't look at both sides of the argument. You have concerns about 1 in 100 of the population being Illegal immigrants and all of a sudden you are a Tommy Robinson lover. What you've posted is just a load of pre-loaded, facetious bollocks. You think you stand on an ivory tower and your views are more worthy than others. But, they aren't, you read one narrative and take media in exactly the same manner as the people you say you don't like. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 8, 2024 9:25:29 GMT
www.theguardian.com/society/2024/feb/12/record-one-in-five-nhs-staff-in-england-are-non-uk-nationals-figures-showThe above statistics should answer your second question. The UK is short of health staff although there are a record 1.4 million. Just as other European and other countries around the world. There is a world shortage of health workers. www.euronews.com/health/2024/09/12/doctor-shortages-low-pay-and-overtime-europes-hospitals-are-under-the-weatherThere are other occupations where the UK relies on immigrant workers including harvesting, abertoir workers, hospitality, building industry, etc. Sometimes it is a case of exporting the jobs instead of importing the workers, for example, half of the UK waters fishing quota goes to foreign companies because it cannot be taken up by British fishing companies who can't get the staff. Last week I was having to persuade a neighbour who runs a window cleaning business to clean my windows, conservatory, etc. But he was saying he is overloaded with demand; maybe he should import some immigrants! Lots of employers can't get the staff they need. A food factory I know in Malton is thriving, supplying M & S with ready meals (as advertised on tele), but to get the staff they need to bus them in from all round the area. Our economy is thriving with full employment and the lowest unemployment since the 1970s. The country is desperate for worker immigrants in numerous walks of life. Please don't use the term 3rd world, countries like India are far more developed in some respects like steel industry than Europe. There is huge worldwide competition for workers as birth rates decline. www.reuters.com/markets/europe/germanys-shortage-workers-is-biggest-risk-growth-minister-says-2024-02-21/ano post pandemic: www.uschamber.com/workforce/understanding-americas-labor-shortage What all the left fail to get their heads around is, 99% of people opposing migrant crossings aren't anti-immigration. I've been an expat before. What they are opposing is illegal immigration. Unsolicited people crossing who jump on a deliveroo bike, get trafficked into slave labour or abuse. Any normal person agrees with what you have posted, immigrants who do qualified jobs here are absolutely brilliant. Fair point. They are also concerned about waving too many people in when we all know our infrastructure can't cope with it all currently. We are going about it arse about face. And its really unhelpful when people who make comments like this are shunned as "racist gammons" and demonised. A racist term itself in fact. |
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Post by emretezzy on Oct 8, 2024 9:37:13 GMT
What all the left fail to get their heads around is, 99% of people opposing migrant crossings aren't anti-immigration. I've been an expat before. What they are opposing is illegal immigration. Unsolicited people crossing who jump on a deliveroo bike, get trafficked into slave labour or abuse. Any normal person agrees with what you have posted, immigrants who do qualified jobs here are absolutely brilliant. Fair point. They are also concerned about waving too many people in when we all know our infrastructure can't cope with it all currently. We are going about it arse about face. And its really unhelpful when people who make comments like this are shunned as "racist gammons" and demonised. A racist term itself in fact. I think the infrastructure would cope if everyone coming paid NI, didn't live rent free in a hotel and contributed tax. You could expand and build upon services which in the past have proven to work. People earning and contributing is key. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 8, 2024 9:45:13 GMT
The answer to the first question is: do some research beyond reading ill-informed, deliberately inflammatory twitter feeds and right-wing newspaper front pages (who seem to be obsessed with the topic and obsessed in an entirely negative way). Hopefully, any 'curiosity' (notice I avoided words like 'worried/concerned' as these tend to imply something of a made-up mind already) in understanding the positive and negative impacts of immigration will then be a well-founded and rounded one, based on robustly gathered data, not knee-jerk, click-bait, shit-stirring, which is what so much reporting of immigration comprises. And the answer to the second, apart from being intrinsically linked to the approach to the first, is that it depends entirely on how you assess better and safer. Do you focus on terrorism and grooming gangs, for instance, their concern over what's going on in Gaza? Or do you focus on the numerous jobs being done in the health service and other sectors which might otherwise be unfilled, the additional taxes that result, the positive contributions to food, music and art etc etc? I'd suggest that any sensible person capable of seeing all the different sides to that question would, at the very least, come down somewhere in the middle ie the vast majority of immigrants simply want to work, earn money, abide by the law, raise a family and be left alone, just like the rest of us who happened to be born in the UK, and are not terrorists or paedophiles. Which conclusion, you'd hope, would prevent falling into the trap of believing the shit-stirring and scaremongering the likes of Tommy Robinson, Nigel Farage and the right-wing press indulge in so regularly. That's the lefty crap you get hit with. There is one side who doesn't look at both sides of the argument. You have concerns about 1 in 100 of the population being Illegal immigrants and all of a sudden you are a Tommy Robinson lover. What you've posted is just a load of pre-loaded, feciatous bollocks. You think you stand on an ivory tower and your views are more worthy than others. But, they aren't, you read one narrative and take media in exactly the same manner as the people you say you don't like. The main concern here is "feciatious"? Is that a faeces related STD you've come across? Just asking. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 8, 2024 9:45:24 GMT
Fair point. They are also concerned about waving too many people in when we all know our infrastructure can't cope with it all currently. We are going about it arse about face. And its really unhelpful when people who make comments like this are shunned as "racist gammons" and demonised. A racist term itself in fact. I think the infrastructure would cope if everyone coming paid NI, didn't live rent free in a hotel and contributed tax. You could expand and build upon services which in the past have proven to work. People earning and contributing is key. We can't keep up with the current rate of population increase. Look at our housing situation. And then look at our planning system and how it is set up to make obtaining planning permission, particularly for housing, as difficult as it can possibly be. I've watched every govt for the last 30 plus years come into power saying they are going to free up the planning system and make it work. Yet all they ever do is add more and more legislation that ensures the exact opposite happens. Labour have put this issue front and centre so I'm watching with great interest to see if this is yet more empty rhetoric. I strongly suspect it is judging by their first 3 months in govt... |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 8, 2024 9:47:21 GMT
She didn't NEED to mention colour, blimey, that's the very essence of the point. As I say, other people got it. But hey ho ... No, the babies can come from a multitude of different heritage backgrounds that we have in this country, it's just you bringing colour into it, but hey ho, as Morgan Freeman said, to stop racism, stop talking about colour. It literally isn't. It's not my fault if you don't understand the point. Which has been discussed on this thread already. You've got the option to go back and read what has been said but you clearly can't be arsed and now you're simply spamming the thread. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 8, 2024 9:59:07 GMT
So to cut to the chase, is she saying, that we need more white people to have babies, so we don't need to import more brown people?If (as she claims), there aren't enough people having kids in this country to satisfy the labour market, then why does it matter if they're born here or somewhere else, in order to satisfy it? In fairness, you did reference colour in your response and the lady in question never did. The broad point she was making was that if you want to lower immigration as a matter of principle across the UK (which Reform and the Conservatives both do), then over time you are going to need to increase the birth rate of people living in the UK to counter the drop in population numbers and therefore future workforce going forwards. It was an economic and mathematical problem she was raising - not a racial one. Last time I checked the UK wasn't monocultural. I don't agree with her, but to continually pretend you didn't (incorrectly) reference colour when you did exactly that is a bit silly. |
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Post by phileetin on Oct 8, 2024 10:21:59 GMT
surely it's in black or white whether he mentioned it or not ?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 8, 2024 11:25:52 GMT
[quote author=" Paul Spencer" source="/post/8272090/thread" timestamp="1727800091"So to cut to the chase, is she saying, that we need more white people to have babies, so we don't need to import more brown people?If (as she claims), there aren't enough people having kids in this country to satisfy the labour market, then why does it matter if they're born here or somewhere else, in order to satisfy it? In fairness, you did reference colour in your response and the lady in question never did. The broad point she was making was that if you want to lower immigration as a matter of principle across the UK (which Reform and the Conservatives both do), then over time you are going to need to increase the birth rate of people living in the UK to counter the drop in population numbers and therefore future workforce going forwards. It was an economic and mathematical problem she was raising - not a racial one. Last time I checked the UK wasn't monocultural. I don't agree with her, but to continually pretend you didn't (incorrectly) reference colour when you did exactly that is a bit silly.[/quote] ------------------' Ahhh, that ISN'T the point (it's like pulling teeth on here sometimes) and is the result of people skim reading threads. My point was, that without mentioning colour or race, that was in fact, what she was actually doing . I have already said, in a follow up post ... "It's the fundamental principal of having to stop immigration at all costs, by having more babies 'of our own'. If there aren't enough people here to service the jobs market (and she's correct in her assertion), why the clamour then for the UK to have more babies? It seems to me she's suggesting, solve the problem by having more UK babies = good, solve the problem with immigration = bad." I literally said in my original post ... "WHY DOES IT MATTER IF THEY'RE BORN HERE OR SOMEWHERE ELSE?" What is the difference between the two, what is she ultimately (if you follow he argument through) implying? As far as I'm concerned, so long as somebody is legal to be here and pays their taxes, IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME IF THAT PERSON IS BORN IN DELHI OR DONCASTER, so why does it matter to her? What's her point? |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 8, 2024 11:28:36 GMT
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 8, 2024 11:36:24 GMT
[quote author=" Paul Spencer" source="/post/8272090/thread" timestamp="1727800091"So to cut to the chase, is she saying, that we need more white people to have babies, so we don't need to import more brown people?If (as she claims), there aren't enough people having kids in this country to satisfy the labour market, then why does it matter if they're born here or somewhere else, in order to satisfy it? Ahhh, that ISN'T the point (this is like pulling teeth) and is the result of people skim reading threads. My point was, that without mentioning colour or race, that was in fact, what she was actually doing .
I have already said, in a follow up post ... It's the fundamental principal of having to stop immigration at all costs, by having more babies 'of our own'. If there aren't enough people here to service the jobs market (and she's correct in her assertion), why the clamour then for the UK to have more babies? It seems to me she's suggesting, solve the problem by having more UK babies = good, solve the problem with immigration = bad.I literally said in my original post ... "WHY DOES IT MATTER IF THEY'RE BORN HERE OR SOMEWHERE ELSE?" What is the difference between the two, what is she ultimately (if you follow he argument through) implying?
As far as I'm concerned, so long as somebody is legal to be here and pays their taxes, it doesn't matter to be if that person is born in Delhi or Doncaster, so why does it matter to her?What's her point? The lady was talking precisely about the economic and mathematical problem of population and future workforce, and how those espousing a complete halt to immigration (i.e the Conservatives and Reform) are potentially creating a huge demographic problem for themselves given the balance of numbers. It's got nothing to do with race, presumably and quite tellingly, outside of your own head. What is quite funny (apart from for those individuals somehow being accused of covert racism, of course) is that you've now developed a situation for yourself whereby you've gone from 1. denying that you ever referenced colour, through 2. saying someone else is inherently racist for thinking you did, to now 3. suggesting that, despite never mentioning or implying anything remotely close to it, the woman was probably referring to colour but surely everyone else should be able to imply it because you definitely did. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 8, 2024 11:54:00 GMT
In fairness, you did reference colour in your response and the lady in question never did. The broad point she was making was that if you want to lower immigration as a matter of principle across the UK (which Reform and the Conservatives both do), then over time you are going to need to increase the birth rate of people living in the UK to counter the drop in population numbers and therefore future workforce going forwards. It was an economic and mathematical problem she was raising - not a racial one. Last time I checked the UK wasn't monocultural. I don't agree with her, but to continually pretend you didn't (incorrectly) reference colour when you did exactly that is a bit silly. Ahhh, that ISN'T the point (this is like pulling teeth) and is the result of people skim reading threads. My point was, that without mentioning colour or race, that was in fact, what she was actually doing .
I have already said, in a follow up post ... It's the fundamental principal of having to stop immigration at all costs, by having more babies 'of our own'. If there aren't enough people here to service the jobs market (and she's correct in her assertion), why the clamour then for the UK to have more babies? It seems to me she's suggesting, solve the problem by having more UK babies = good, solve the problem with immigration = bad.I literally said in my original post ... "WHY DOES IT MATTER IF THEY'RE BORN HERE OR SOMEWHERE ELSE?" What is the difference between the two, what is she ultimately (if you follow he argument through) implying?
As far as I'm concerned, so long as somebody is legal to be here and pays their taxes, it doesn't matter to be if that person is born in Delhi or Doncaster, so why does it matter to her?What's her point? The lady was talking precisely about the economic and mathematical problem of population and future workforce, and how those espousing a complete halt to immigration (i.e the Conservatives and Reform) are potentially creating a huge demographic problem for themselves given the balance of numbers. It's got nothing to do with race, presumably and quite tellingly, outside of your own head. What is quite funny (apart from for those individuals somehow being accused of covert racism, of course) is that you've now developed a situation for yourself whereby you've gone from 1. denying that you ever referenced colour, through 2. saying someone else is inherently racist for thinking you did, to now 3. suggesting that, despite never mentioning or implying anything remotely close to it, the woman was probably referring to colour but surely everyone else should be able to imply it because you definitely did. [/quote] ----------------------- Quite frankly Ariel the second part of your post is just a whole bunch of lies, God knows what you get out of it. 1. No I didn't, I suggested the claim that Cates wasn't doing that, was wrong. 2. You've just made that up and it's a pretty filthy lie, if I'm honest. 3. I suggested it in my opening post. Back to your original question (God knows why I'm giving you the respect) ... I've said right from the beginning that it's an economic problem, so why does it matter if those people are born here or born somewhere else? Go on, see if you can actually answer the question, without having to resort to a few paragraphs of venomous bile, for a change ... |
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Post by Foster on Oct 8, 2024 12:00:33 GMT
surely it's in black or white whether he mentioned it or not ? Stop bringing colour into it mate. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 8, 2024 12:02:08 GMT
surely it's in black or white whether he mentioned it or not ? Stop bringing colour into it mate. Even though you’ve emboldened the two words I just can’t see them |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Oct 8, 2024 12:36:55 GMT
Ahhh, that ISN'T the point (this is like pulling teeth) and is the result of people skim reading threads. My point was, that without mentioning colour or race, that was in fact, what she was actually doing .
I have already said, in a follow up post ... It's the fundamental principal of having to stop immigration at all costs, by having more babies 'of our own'. If there aren't enough people here to service the jobs market (and she's correct in her assertion), why the clamour then for the UK to have more babies? It seems to me she's suggesting, solve the problem by having more UK babies = good, solve the problem with immigration = bad.I literally said in my original post ... "WHY DOES IT MATTER IF THEY'RE BORN HERE OR SOMEWHERE ELSE?" What is the difference between the two, what is she ultimately (if you follow he argument through) implying?
As far as I'm concerned, so long as somebody is legal to be here and pays their taxes, it doesn't matter to be if that person is born in Delhi or Doncaster, so why does it matter to her?What's her point? The lady was talking precisely about the economic and mathematical problem of population and future workforce, and how those espousing a complete halt to immigration (i.e the Conservatives and Reform) are potentially creating a huge demographic problem for themselves given the balance of numbers. It's got nothing to do with race, presumably and quite tellingly, outside of your own head. What is quite funny (apart from for those individuals somehow being accused of covert racism, of course) is that you've now developed a situation for yourself whereby you've gone from 1. denying that you ever referenced colour, through 2. saying someone else is inherently racist for thinking you did, to now 3. suggesting that, despite never mentioning or implying anything remotely close to it, the woman was probably referring to colour but surely everyone else should be able to imply it because you definitely did. ----------------------- Quite frankly Ariel the second part of your post is just a whole bunch of lies, God knows what you get out of it. 1. No I didn't, I suggested the claim that Cates wasn't doing that, was wrong. 2. You've just made that up and it's a pretty filthy lie, if I'm honest. 3. I suggested it in my opening post. Back to your original question (God knows why I'm giving you the respect) ... I've said right from the beginning that it's an economic problem, so why does it matter if those people are born here or born somewhere else?Go on, see if you can actually answer the question, without having to resort to a few paragraphs of venomous bile, for a change ...[/quote] I haven’t read the backward and forwarding of posts that you have been involved over the last few pages but the statement you’ve made is intriguing. Do you mean that if we were given time to sort out our economy to provide the infrastructure to support the immigration policy and everybody regardless of where they were born? That sounds pretty sensible but would take years to do this wouldn’t it? In the meantime immigrants continue to cross the channel in their 1000s costing the taxpayer millions to temporarily accommodate them, causing social problems, overstretching our resources and the possible crime increase. What do we do with these people until we have an economy to support them? Genuine question Paul. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 8, 2024 12:49:47 GMT
Ahhh, that ISN'T the point (this is like pulling teeth) and is the result of people skim reading threads. My point was, that without mentioning colour or race, that was in fact, what she was actually doing .
I have already said, in a follow up post ... It's the fundamental principal of having to stop immigration at all costs, by having more babies 'of our own'. If there aren't enough people here to service the jobs market (and she's correct in her assertion), why the clamour then for the UK to have more babies? It seems to me she's suggesting, solve the problem by having more UK babies = good, solve the problem with immigration = bad.I literally said in my original post ... "WHY DOES IT MATTER IF THEY'RE BORN HERE OR SOMEWHERE ELSE?" What is the difference between the two, what is she ultimately (if you follow he argument through) implying?
As far as I'm concerned, so long as somebody is legal to be here and pays their taxes, it doesn't matter to be if that person is born in Delhi or Doncaster, so why does it matter to her?What's her point? The lady was talking precisely about the economic and mathematical problem of population and future workforce, and how those espousing a complete halt to immigration (i.e the Conservatives and Reform) are potentially creating a huge demographic problem for themselves given the balance of numbers. It's got nothing to do with race, presumably and quite tellingly, outside of your own head. What is quite funny (apart from for those individuals somehow being accused of covert racism, of course) is that you've now developed a situation for yourself whereby you've gone from 1. denying that you ever referenced colour, through 2. saying someone else is inherently racist for thinking you did, to now 3. suggesting that, despite never mentioning or implying anything remotely close to it, the woman was probably referring to colour but surely everyone else should be able to imply it because you definitely did. ----------------------- Venomous bile? 😂 If you weren't so arrogant you'd probably be funny - our only hope is that you're being ironic. Multiple people on here have been telling for what seems to be days that you've been talking bollocks but you don't seem to grasp it. You've said something factually incorrect about a lady (Cates) who never mentioned race or colour, simply because you've implied that racist slant yourself. Nobody else thought that apart from you. Moreover, rather than accepting that you put a racist slant on what Cates said, you've repeatedly blamed everyone else for calling you out on it - so much so that the only riposte you appear to have is to repeatedly keep "suggesting" that people re-open and re-read you're overtly racist take on what Cates said. As for the question of why it matters whether people are born here or not - the point the lady was making was that if you stop immigration (i.e. nobody comes into the country to work and you employ UK residents) then logically the only increase to the workforce you are ever going to see is from UK residents having more children to counter that workforce offset given that 1. you'll still have emigration and 2. the UK economy (particularly the NHS and public sector) relies on an immigrant workforce. I don't happen to agree with her, but nonetheless that's the point the lady was making. It would be great if you could do something about this deep-seated obsession you have with race and colour. 😂 |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 8, 2024 13:03:08 GMT
The lady was talking precisely about the economic and mathematical problem of population and future workforce, and how those espousing a complete halt to immigration (i.e the Conservatives and Reform) are potentially creating a huge demographic problem for themselves given the balance of numbers. It's got nothing to do with race, presumably and quite tellingly, outside of your own head. What is quite funny (apart from for those individuals somehow being accused of covert racism, of course) is that you've now developed a situation for yourself whereby you've gone from 1. denying that you ever referenced colour, through 2. saying someone else is inherently racist for thinking you did, to now 3. suggesting that, despite never mentioning or implying anything remotely close to it, the woman was probably referring to colour but surely everyone else should be able to imply it because you definitely did. ----------------------- Quite frankly Ariel the second part of your post is just a whole bunch of lies, God knows what you get out of it. 1. No I didn't, I suggested the claim that Cates wasn't doing that, was wrong. 2. You've just made that up and it's a pretty filthy lie, if I'm honest. 3. I suggested it in my opening post. Back to your original question (God knows why I'm giving you the respect) ... I've said right from the beginning that it's an economic problem, so why does it matter if those people are born here or born somewhere else? Go on, see if you can actually answer the question, without having to resort to a few paragraphs of venomous bile, for a change ... Venomous bile? 😂 If you weren't so arrogant you'd probably be funny - our only hope is that you're being ironic. Multiple people on here have been telling for what seems to be days that you've been talking bollocks but you don't seem to grasp it. You've said something factually incorrect about a lady (Cates) who never mentioned race or colour, simply because you've implied that racist slant yourself. Nobody else thought that apart from you. Moreover, rather than accepting that you put a racist slant on what Cates said, you've repeatedly blamed everyone else for calling you out on it - so much so that the only riposte you appear to have is to repeatedly keep "suggesting" that people re-open and re-read you're overtly racist take on what Cates said. As for the question of why it matters whether people are born here or not - the point the lady was making was that if you stop immigration (i.e. nobody comes into the country to work and you employ UK residents) then logically the only increase to the workforce you are ever going to see is from UK residents having more children to counter that workforce offset given that 1. you'll still have emigration and 2. the UK economy (particularly the NHS and public sector) relies on an immigrant workforce. I don't happen to agree with her, but nonetheless that's the point the lady was making. It would be great if you could do something about this deep-seated obsession you have with race and colour. 😂 [/quote] Ha ha, I was literally about to start answering Laurie's question above and then your post pops up. A post where Laurie openly admits, that he hasn't even read the exchange that has taken place before getting involved. At least he's got the good manners to admit as much before posting. You on the other hand, are probably (imho) one of the biggest culprits of such behaviour on this forum. You quickly skim read threads, think something's been said when it hasn't and then end up throwing baseless (and quite disgusting) accusations around like that people have been accusing other posters of being racists. As for your post above, it's just full of yet even more bullshit, one which, quite frankly I'm not even going to begin wasting my time picking apart. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 8, 2024 13:09:48 GMT
----------------------- Venomous bile? 😂 If you weren't so arrogant you'd probably be funny - our only hope is that you're being ironic. Multiple people on here have been telling for what seems to be days that you've been talking bollocks but you don't seem to grasp it. You've said something factually incorrect about a lady (Cates) who never mentioned race or colour, simply because you've implied that racist slant yourself. Nobody else thought that apart from you. Moreover, rather than accepting that you put a racist slant on what Cates said, you've repeatedly blamed everyone else for calling you out on it - so much so that the only riposte you appear to have is to repeatedly keep "suggesting" that people re-open and re-read you're overtly racist take on what Cates said. As for the question of why it matters whether people are born here or not - the point the lady was making was that if you stop immigration (i.e. nobody comes into the country to work and you employ UK residents) then logically the only increase to the workforce you are ever going to see is from UK residents having more children to counter that workforce offset given that 1. you'll still have emigration and 2. the UK economy (particularly the NHS and public sector) relies on an immigrant workforce. I don't happen to agree with her, but nonetheless that's the point the lady was making. It would be great if you could do something about this deep-seated obsession you have with race and colour. 😂 Ha ha, I was literally about to start answering Laurie's question above and then your post pops up. A post where Laurie openly admits, that he hasn't even read the exchange that has taken place before getting involved. At least he's got the good manners to admit as much before posting. You on the other hand, are probably (imho) one of the biggest culprits of such behaviour on this forum. You quickly skim read threads, think something's been said when it hasn't and then end up throwing baseless (and quite disgusting) accusations around like that people have been accusing other posters of being racists. As for your post above, it's just full of yet even more bullshit, one which, quite frankly I'm not even begin wasting my time picking apart. Racism (especially when it's implied) is disgusting; and I understand that being called out for it is uncomfortable for you. Your narcissistic and gaslighting defence of your behaviour is equally as embarrassing, but we move on... |
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Oct 8, 2024 13:16:54 GMT
The only logical reasons for being in favour of unregulated migration are A) you don't believe in nation states B) you think Britain is terrible and ought to be destroyed.
Everyone else should believe in some kind of organised system. We might have big differences on what that system looks like, with some in favour of much higher intakes than others, but it's just crazy to suggest that open borders are good policy.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 8, 2024 13:26:50 GMT
Venomous bile? 😂 If you weren't so arrogant you'd probably be funny - our only hope is that you're being ironic. Multiple people on here have been telling for what seems to be days that you've been talking bollocks but you don't seem to grasp it. You've said something factually incorrect about a lady (Cates) who never mentioned race or colour, simply because you've implied that racist slant yourself. Nobody else thought that apart from you. Moreover, rather than accepting that you put a racist slant on what Cates said, you've repeatedly blamed everyone else for calling you out on it - so much so that the only riposte you appear to have is to repeatedly keep "suggesting" that people re-open and re-read you're overtly racist take on what Cates said. As for the question of why it matters whether people are born here or not - the point the lady was making was that if you stop immigration (i.e. nobody comes into the country to work and you employ UK residents) then logically the only increase to the workforce you are ever going to see is from UK residents having more children to counter that workforce offset given that 1. you'll still have emigration and 2. the UK economy (particularly the NHS and public sector) relies on an immigrant workforce. I don't happen to agree with her, but nonetheless that's the point the lady was making. It would be great if you could do something about this deep-seated obsession you have with race and colour. 😂 Ha ha, I was literally about to start answering Laurie's question above and then your post pops up. A post where Laurie openly admits, that he hasn't even read the exchange that has taken place before getting involved. At least he's got the good manners to admit as much before posting. You on the other hand, are probably (imho) one of the biggest culprits of such behaviour on this forum. You quickly skim read threads, think something's been said when it hasn't and then end up throwing baseless (and quite disgusting) accusations around like that people have been accusing other posters of being racists. As for your post above, it's just full of yet even more bullshit, one which, quite frankly I'm not even begin wasting my time picking apart. Racism (especially when it's implied) is disgusting; and I understand that being called out for it is uncomfortable for you. You're narcistic and gaslighting defence of your behaviour is equally as embarrassing, but we move on...[/quote] Yet more bullshit. We move on ... |
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