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Post by mrnovember on Aug 12, 2024 17:17:27 GMT
Why do The French keep letting such highly qualified and sought after individuals slip through thier fingers?
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 12, 2024 17:43:29 GMT
Why do The French keep letting such highly qualified and sought after individuals slip through thier fingers? Thatās nearly 5000 since Labour came to power. At that point there were 14k since Jan this year. What the fuck is going on? Does barmy Starmer have any idea what heās going to do?
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Post by 4372 on Aug 12, 2024 18:00:37 GMT
We all had a vote. The important thing was to get rid of The Tories, it seems. The Rwanda scheme was rejected by the electorate.
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Post by starkiller on Aug 12, 2024 18:13:34 GMT
We all had a vote. The important thing was to get rid of The Tories, it seems. The Rwanda scheme was rejected by the electorate. The electorate have given up.
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Post by 4372 on Aug 12, 2024 18:16:29 GMT
That's an opinion, and as an opinion it's valid. But the facts are that Sunak gambled on the Rwanda plan, and lost.
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Post by starkiller on Aug 12, 2024 18:40:56 GMT
Why do The French keep letting such highly qualified and sought after individuals slip through thier fingers? Thatās nearly 5000 since Labour came to power. At that point there were 14k since Jan this year. What the fuck is going on? Does barmy Starmer have any idea what heās going to do? He's gonna give them all an amnesty and rubber stamp the lot. There's no intention of stopping it. Already there's enough to form a large army to keep the natives in check.
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Post by Gods on Aug 12, 2024 21:26:39 GMT
I think this would be a fair question to put to Keir Starmer and Yvette Cooper Balls "You voted down the Rwanda scheme so where are you with 'smashing the gangs'?"
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Post by elystokie on Aug 13, 2024 6:26:52 GMT
Why do The French keep letting such highly qualified and sought after individuals slip through thier fingers? Thatās nearly 5000 since Labour came to power. At that point there were 14k since Jan this year. What the fuck is going on? Does barmy Starmer have any idea what heās going to do? Did the last lot?
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 13, 2024 6:37:09 GMT
Thatās nearly 5000 since Labour came to power. At that point there were 14k since Jan this year. What the fuck is going on? Does barmy Starmer have any idea what heās going to do? Did the last lot? As controversial as it was just the threat of the Rwanda Plan was starting to have an effect wasnāt it? We'll "smash the gangs" is a great sound bite, but in the meantime uncontrolled immigration continues to increase with media reports that Starmer is doing little about it.
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Post by elystokie on Aug 13, 2024 6:40:14 GMT
As controversial as it was just the threat of the Rwanda Plan was starting to have an effect wasnāt it? We'll "smash the gangs" is a great sound bite, but in the meantime uncontrolled immigration continues to increase with media reports that Starmer is doing little about it. Was it? I think the weather has more effect personally, did the boats stop because we sent 4 people to Rwanda? It was a crazy expensive idea from a desperate government.
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Post by emretezzy on Aug 13, 2024 6:42:48 GMT
I think this would be a fair question to put to Keir Starmer and Yvette Cooper Balls "You voted down the Rwanda scheme so where are you with 'smashing the gangs'?" Smoke and mirrors God's. They wouldn't even know who the gangs are.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 13, 2024 9:39:16 GMT
As controversial as it was just the threat of the Rwanda Plan was starting to have an effect wasnāt it? We'll "smash the gangs" is a great sound bite, but in the meantime uncontrolled immigration continues to increase with media reports that Starmer is doing little about it. Was it? I think the weather has more effect personally, did the boats stop because we sent 4 people to Rwanda? It was a crazy expensive idea from a desperate government. A similar scheme being followed by other countries it seems. I donāt think it was 4 being sent to Rwanda that was deterring uncontrolled immigration but the threat of ending up there was. However where are we know with uncontrolled immigration increasing daily with no deterrent whatsoever. The Rwanda plan should have only been scrapped once a credible alternative was in place but, in a hurry to discredit the previous government, Starmer has royally fucked up imo. As far as cost of Rwanda plan, try comparing it with the cost of uncontrolled immigration? Rwanda plan is only expensive because the Ā£320m handed to them on a plate will never be returned because of Starmer & cooper.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Aug 13, 2024 9:48:12 GMT
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Post by 4372 on Aug 13, 2024 10:18:53 GMT
It's a glorious day here.
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Post by elystokie on Aug 13, 2024 11:04:27 GMT
Was it? I think the weather has more effect personally, did the boats stop because we sent 4 people to Rwanda? It was a crazy expensive idea from a desperate government. A similar scheme being followed by other countries it seems. I donāt think it was 4 being sent to Rwanda that was deterring uncontrolled immigration but the threat of ending up there was. However where are we know with uncontrolled immigration increasing daily with no deterrent whatsoever. The Rwanda plan should have only been scrapped once a credible alternative was in place but, in a hurry to discredit the previous government, Starmer has royally fucked up imo. As far as cost of Rwanda plan, try comparing it with the cost of uncontrolled immigration? Rwanda plan is only expensive because the Ā£320m handed to them on a plate will never be returned because of Starmer & cooper. Wasn't part of the deal that we took undesirables from Rwanda? Is there any evidence that it provided a deterrent? For me, if it's going to be a priority, why not station some of our armed forces on the beaches in France? I'd be interested to know what the percentage of illegal immigrants compared to legal is too, is a frenzy being whipped up over a relatively small amount? Of course if the last government hadn't insisted on keeping their mate's hotels fully booked and paying them handsomely for the privilege instead of actually processing claims we probably wouldn't be where we are.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Aug 13, 2024 11:21:42 GMT
Rwanda was never going to work as a deterrent as soon as people saw that they had a 1-in-1000 chance of being sent there.
A week on from seeing that they had a greater chance than that of being burned alive in an hotel 700 made the crossing.
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Post by gawa on Aug 13, 2024 11:38:37 GMT
Where are the other Calais so to speak. Surely there has to be somewhere in Africa where they all take the boat from a bit like Calais and then I presume some town or port south of spain/italy they all land into? Then from there how do so many get up to Calais? Do they all come with money for the bus/train, or is it gangs which transport them or what?
The mind boggles sometimes. It honestly feels like for 2 decades ourselves, italy, america, france and every other western country bang on about immigrants on a daily basis and it's just mind numbingly boring now because nothing changes.
If it's the big problem our media and other countries media allude it to be then why is there little to no effort of a global solution because realistically that is what's required to solve it properly.
Feels a bit like when your house is a tip and you need to clean it top to bottom but rather than sort anything we're instead spending the best part of two decades procrastinating on the best way to clean the pile of dishes while blaming lots of people for the dishes. And as a result no dishes are cleaned and everything else just gets even messier and neglected.
Surely I can't be the only person who's just bored of it? It's like brexit being on our tv screens and papers every day for a few years and I think people got so fucking bored of hearing about it that "get brexit done" became very appealing.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 13, 2024 11:49:48 GMT
A similar scheme being followed by other countries it seems. I donāt think it was 4 being sent to Rwanda that was deterring uncontrolled immigration but the threat of ending up there was. However where are we know with uncontrolled immigration increasing daily with no deterrent whatsoever. The Rwanda plan should have only been scrapped once a credible alternative was in place but, in a hurry to discredit the previous government, Starmer has royally fucked up imo. As far as cost of Rwanda plan, try comparing it with the cost of uncontrolled immigration? Rwanda plan is only expensive because the Ā£320m handed to them on a plate will never be returned because of Starmer & cooper. Wasn't part of the deal that we took undesirables from Rwanda? Is there any evidence that it provided a deterrent? For me, if it's going to be a priority, why not station some of our armed forces on the beaches in France? I'd be interested to know what the percentage of illegal immigrants compared to legal is too, is a frenzy being whipped up over a relatively small amount? Of course if the last government hadn't insisted on keeping their mate's hotels fully booked and paying them handsomely for the privilege instead of actually processing claims we probably wouldn't be where we are. Here are some statistics: www.migrationwatchuk.org/press-release/731Illegal immigration is a low %. The main reasons for high immigration is relatives of those already here, students, and workers for jobs that need filling. We still have record job vacancies and desperate need for NHS workers, teachers, seasonal workers, skilled workers, etc. It would nice to know how many illegal immigrants there were when we were in the EU coming in in the backs of lorries, now working at a car wash near you. People complain about the strain the amount of immigration puts on health services, etc., but without them the health service would collapse. The problem is not just a UK problem, in fact, because we are an island we have less of a problem than many European countries and the US. The US has a rapidly growing economy so readily absorbes high immigration, despite Trump's pronouncements.
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Post by elystokie on Aug 13, 2024 11:56:15 GMT
Wasn't part of the deal that we took undesirables from Rwanda? Is there any evidence that it provided a deterrent? For me, if it's going to be a priority, why not station some of our armed forces on the beaches in France? I'd be interested to know what the percentage of illegal immigrants compared to legal is too, is a frenzy being whipped up over a relatively small amount? Of course if the last government hadn't insisted on keeping their mate's hotels fully booked and paying them handsomely for the privilege instead of actually processing claims we probably wouldn't be where we are. Here are some statistics: www.migrationwatchuk.org/press-release/731Illegal immigration is a low %. The main reasons for high immigration is relatives of those already here, students, and workers for jobs that need filling. We still have record job vacancies and desperate need for NHS workers, teachers, seasonal workers, skilled workers, etc. It would nice to know how many illegal immigrants there were when we were in the EU coming in in the backs of lorries, now working at a car wash near you. People complain about the strain the amount of immigration puts on health services, etc., but without them the health service would collapse. The problem is not just a UK problem, in fact, because we are an island we have less of a problem than many European countries and the US. The US has a rapidly growing economy so readily absorbes high immigration, despite Trump's pronouncements. Looks like another sleight of hand trick by the Tories along with their client press. I provided a link to the FT above that shows immigrants to be a net fiscal benefit, seems the Tories were happy to take the money and then blame them because they gave the money to their mates
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Post by Tom_stokiepmre89 on Aug 13, 2024 16:44:55 GMT
Where are the other Calais so to speak. Surely there has to be somewhere in Africa where they all take the boat from a bit like Calais and then I presume some town or port south of spain/italy they all land into? Then from there how do so many get up to Calais? Do they all come with money for the bus/train, or is it gangs which transport them or what? The mind boggles sometimes. It honestly feels like for 2 decades ourselves, italy, america, france and every other western country bang on about immigrants on a daily basis and it's just mind numbingly boring now because nothing changes. If it's the big problem our media and other countries media allude it to be then why is there little to no effort of a global solution because realistically that is what's required to solve it properly. Feels a bit like when your house is a tip and you need to clean it top to bottom but rather than sort anything we're instead spending the best part of two decades procrastinating on the best way to clean the pile of dishes while blaming lots of people for the dishes. And as a result no dishes are cleaned and everything else just gets even messier and neglected. Surely I can't be the only person who's just bored of it? It's like brexit being on our tv screens and papers every day for a few years and I think people got so fucking bored of hearing about it that "get brexit done" became very appealing. Thereās no appetite from those in power to do anything because those in power donāt represent the electorate on this issue, they represent shadowy powers above them. And for a variety of reasons the shadow powers love mass immigration; ranging from mere corporate interests to, IMO, interests that basically make a mockery of those who shouted down the far-right loons as āconspiracy-theoristsā for the last few decades. + itās a useful little trick for the ruling party to be able to point to growing GDP despite the more infinitely important fact that GDP per capita is diminishing. I agree though itās boring because itās never ending, but then is it any wonder thereās anger on the streets when the electorate has basically spent 15 years voting against mass-immigration and getting essentially ignored into apathy? I donāt condone the disorder weāve seen of late but I fully sympathise with the anger. Ultimately, the only true hope of change is breaking from this diseased de-facto 2 party state we sadly find ourselves living in.
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Post by gawa on Aug 13, 2024 20:25:51 GMT
Where are the other Calais so to speak. Surely there has to be somewhere in Africa where they all take the boat from a bit like Calais and then I presume some town or port south of spain/italy they all land into? Then from there how do so many get up to Calais? Do they all come with money for the bus/train, or is it gangs which transport them or what? The mind boggles sometimes. It honestly feels like for 2 decades ourselves, italy, america, france and every other western country bang on about immigrants on a daily basis and it's just mind numbingly boring now because nothing changes. If it's the big problem our media and other countries media allude it to be then why is there little to no effort of a global solution because realistically that is what's required to solve it properly. Feels a bit like when your house is a tip and you need to clean it top to bottom but rather than sort anything we're instead spending the best part of two decades procrastinating on the best way to clean the pile of dishes while blaming lots of people for the dishes. And as a result no dishes are cleaned and everything else just gets even messier and neglected. Surely I can't be the only person who's just bored of it? It's like brexit being on our tv screens and papers every day for a few years and I think people got so fucking bored of hearing about it that "get brexit done" became very appealing. Thereās no appetite from those in power to do anything because those in power donāt represent the electorate on this issue, they represent shadowy powers above them. And for a variety of reasons the shadow powers love mass immigration; ranging from mere corporate interests to, IMO, interests that basically make a mockery of those who shouted down the far-right loons as āconspiracy-theoristsā for the last few decades. + itās a useful little trick for the ruling party to be able to point to growing GDP despite the more infinitely important fact that GDP per capita is diminishing. I agree though itās boring because itās never ending, but then is it any wonder thereās anger on the streets when the electorate has basically spent 15 years voting against mass-immigration and getting essentially ignored into apathy? I donāt condone the disorder weāve seen of late but I fully sympathise with the anger. Ultimately, the only true hope of change is breaking from this diseased de-facto 2 party state we sadly find ourselves living in. The parties have been listening to the electorate in terms of having it on their manifestos and campaigning for it. One of the key selling points of brexit was taking control of borders. Every election the conservatives spoke about reducing illegal immigration and made it a big part of their manifesto. It's not unique to the uk though. We see the same in Germany, Italy, France, USA and even Ireland now too. It seems no matter how far "right" we go in terms of voting and despite what gets promised by many political leaders across the world - not many of them seem to be able to solve the problem. Maybe we should be looking more to follow the direction of countries which have had successful immigration policies instead. Which ironically tend to be socialist and communist regimes... the same thing these "right wing" leaders fearmonger others over. š¤·āāļø And by socialist and communist I don't mean your Tony blairs or Kier Starmers.
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Post by Tom_stokiepmre89 on Aug 13, 2024 20:53:59 GMT
Thereās no appetite from those in power to do anything because those in power donāt represent the electorate on this issue, they represent shadowy powers above them. And for a variety of reasons the shadow powers love mass immigration; ranging from mere corporate interests to, IMO, interests that basically make a mockery of those who shouted down the far-right loons as āconspiracy-theoristsā for the last few decades. + itās a useful little trick for the ruling party to be able to point to growing GDP despite the more infinitely important fact that GDP per capita is diminishing. I agree though itās boring because itās never ending, but then is it any wonder thereās anger on the streets when the electorate has basically spent 15 years voting against mass-immigration and getting essentially ignored into apathy? I donāt condone the disorder weāve seen of late but I fully sympathise with the anger. Ultimately, the only true hope of change is breaking from this diseased de-facto 2 party state we sadly find ourselves living in. The parties have been listening to the electorate in terms of having it on their manifestos and campaigning for it. One of the key selling points of brexit was taking control of borders. Every election the conservatives spoke about reducing illegal immigration and made it a big part of their manifesto. It's not unique to the uk though. We see the same in Germany, Italy, France, USA and even Ireland now too. It seems no matter how far "right" we go in terms of voting and despite what gets promised by many political leaders across the world - not many of them seem to be able to solve the problem. Maybe we should be looking more to follow the direction of countries which have had successful immigration policies instead. Which ironically tend to be socialist and communist regimes... the same thing these "right wing" leaders fearmonger others over. š¤·āāļø And by socialist and communist I don't mean your Tony blairs or Kier Starmers. Sadly I think youāre right. We donāt really do extreme politics in Britain but I suspect extreme politics might be in the post. If people feel like thereās no hope of representation on the key issues they deem most important (and Iād argue theyāre correct to feel that way) then they will move to the extremes. This goes both ways as there are people on opposing ends of the spectrum who feel ignored on primary concerns that they view as existential. Letās not beat around the bush here; reform are wolves in the laziest sheep costume that still allows you entrance to the fancy dress party, but a few years of starmerās globalist-authoritarianism and I imagine theyāll be in prime position to make serious gains. Disagree on the point about illegal immigration; the tories got in on manifestos of reducing net-migration period. Thatās a key point. I donāt doubt that many tories had legitimate intentions to follow through on those promises, but a political party of that size is more like a corporation than a collection of individuals. It acts as an entity unto itself; and the desires of individuals to change the trajectory are as futile as throwing a spanner in front of a tank. Itāll take something akin to an actual revolution to prevent the globalists enacting their ambitions. Itās all a mess. Even the soulless centrists, who care about nothing but raw numbers, arenāt happy and havenāt been for a very long time. Thereās nobody at ground level benefiting from this modern political system.
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Post by gawa on Aug 13, 2024 21:26:27 GMT
The parties have been listening to the electorate in terms of having it on their manifestos and campaigning for it. One of the key selling points of brexit was taking control of borders. Every election the conservatives spoke about reducing illegal immigration and made it a big part of their manifesto. It's not unique to the uk though. We see the same in Germany, Italy, France, USA and even Ireland now too. It seems no matter how far "right" we go in terms of voting and despite what gets promised by many political leaders across the world - not many of them seem to be able to solve the problem. Maybe we should be looking more to follow the direction of countries which have had successful immigration policies instead. Which ironically tend to be socialist and communist regimes... the same thing these "right wing" leaders fearmonger others over. š¤·āāļø And by socialist and communist I don't mean your Tony blairs or Kier Starmers. Sadly I think youāre right. We donāt really do extreme politics in Britain but I suspect extreme politics might be in the post. If people feel like thereās no hope of representation on the key issues they deem most important (and Iād argue theyāre correct to feel that way) then they will move to the extremes. This goes both ways as there are people on opposing ends of the spectrum who feel ignored on primary concerns that they view as existential. Letās not beat around the bush here; reform are wolves in the laziest sheep costume that still allows you entrance to the fancy dress party, but a few years of starmerās globalist-authoritarianism and I imagine theyāll be in prime position to make serious gains. Disagree on the point about illegal immigration; the tories got in on manifestos of reducing net-migration period. Thatās a key point. I donāt doubt that many tories had legitimate intentions to follow through on those promises, but a political party of that size is more like a corporation than a collection of individuals. It acts as an entity unto itself; and the desires of individuals to change the trajectory are as futile as throwing a spanner in front of a tank. Itāll take something akin to an actual revolution to prevent the globalists enacting their ambitions. Itās all a mess. Even the soulless centrists, who care about nothing but raw numbers, arenāt happy and havenāt been for a very long time. Thereās nobody at ground level benefiting from this modern political system. Excellent post, don't disagree with much of that at all.
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Post by wannabee on Aug 14, 2024 9:35:32 GMT
Thereās no appetite from those in power to do anything because those in power donāt represent the electorate on this issue, they represent shadowy powers above them. And for a variety of reasons the shadow powers love mass immigration; ranging from mere corporate interests to, IMO, interests that basically make a mockery of those who shouted down the far-right loons as āconspiracy-theoristsā for the last few decades. + itās a useful little trick for the ruling party to be able to point to growing GDP despite the more infinitely important fact that GDP per capita is diminishing. I agree though itās boring because itās never ending, but then is it any wonder thereās anger on the streets when the electorate has basically spent 15 years voting against mass-immigration and getting essentially ignored into apathy? I donāt condone the disorder weāve seen of late but I fully sympathise with the anger. Ultimately, the only true hope of change is breaking from this diseased de-facto 2 party state we sadly find ourselves living in. The parties have been listening to the electorate in terms of having it on their manifestos and campaigning for it. One of the key selling points of brexit was taking control of borders. Every election the conservatives spoke about reducing illegal immigration and made it a big part of their manifesto. It's not unique to the uk though. We see the same in Germany, Italy, France, USA and even Ireland now too. It seems no matter how far "right" we go in terms of voting and despite what gets promised by many political leaders across the world - not many of them seem to be able to solve the problem. Maybe we should be looking more to follow the direction of countries which have had successful immigration policies instead. Which ironically tend to be socialist and communist regimes... the same thing these "right wing" leaders fearmonger others over. š¤·āāļø And by socialist and communist I don't mean your Tony blairs or Kier Starmers. You're assuming the "problem" is immigrants when it is actually Austerity and Racism The rioting in South Belfast was every bit as violent as anywhere on the mainland and there are few if any "illegal" migrants in NI Of the 8,000 nurses working for The Belfast Health and Social Care Trust, the largest health trust in the UK, 1,000 are "International" I'd be surprised if quite a few aren't considering their options and the safety of themselves and their families exacerbating waiting times at an already creaking NHS The Syrian-owned supermarket or the Sudanese owned cafe which were burnt out wasn't taking anyone's job but serving the Community. As were the Police who were attacked when trying to protect people and property It isn't clear if the UDA/UVF organized the riots but nothing happens in this area without their say so. At the Anti Immigrant Protest you can see Union Flags obviously but also many Israeli Flags. At the counter Pro Immigrant Protest you can see Palestinian Flags. Lines are drawn and although Gaza isn't Hamas many protesting associate them with IRA. Sectarianism/Racism lives on. Even on this MB some repeatedly call the Palestinian Flag the Hamas Flag. That isn't to say that people don't have a right and a reason to Protest but they are targeting and scapegoating the wrong target. Austerity and poor governance are at the root cause of people's grievance. The majority protesting are not Racist but are fed up that Public Services and Housing are getting worse and worse. The numbers are swelled by youths prepared to engage in some gratuitous violence and looting. We have seen boys and girls as young as 12 being convicted of violent disorder in the Courts The Politicians in NI are every bit as inept as those on the mainland and exacerbated the situation by absenting themselves from the job they were elected to do because of the other thing you mention, Brexit, which they had campaigned for. I know you have no confidence in Labours ability or desire to make changes and you are right to be sceptical and you may prove to be correct. Redistribution of Wealth on a Grand Scale might work for a short period but people who have the determination to accumulate more wealth than they could ever need are not going to give it up easily or voluntarily. A fairer distribution is possible but the fundamental is to incrementally increase wealth with the distribution controlled by the State. It will take time but we have seen the alternative for the last 14 years and there is no one, in my view, on the Left or the Right offering a credible alternative. Therefore the ultimate alternative is anarchy which we have seen in a microcosm in the Riots with attacks on the Police, people and property.
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Post by salopstick on Aug 14, 2024 9:58:34 GMT
The parties have been listening to the electorate in terms of having it on their manifestos and campaigning for it. One of the key selling points of brexit was taking control of borders. Every election the conservatives spoke about reducing illegal immigration and made it a big part of their manifesto. It's not unique to the uk though. We see the same in Germany, Italy, France, USA and even Ireland now too. It seems no matter how far "right" we go in terms of voting and despite what gets promised by many political leaders across the world - not many of them seem to be able to solve the problem. Maybe we should be looking more to follow the direction of countries which have had successful immigration policies instead. Which ironically tend to be socialist and communist regimes... the same thing these "right wing" leaders fearmonger others over. š¤·āāļø And by socialist and communist I don't mean your Tony blairs or Kier Starmers. You're assuming the "problem" is immigrants when it is actually Austerity and Racism The rioting in South Belfast was every bit as violent as anywhere on the mainland and there are few if any "illegal" migrants in NI Of the 8,000 nurses working for The Belfast Health and Social Care Trust, the largest health trust in the UK, 1,000 are "International" I'd be surprised if quite a few aren't considering their options and the safety of themselves and their families exacerbating waiting times at an already creaking NHS The Syrian-owned supermarket or the Sudanese owned cafe which were burnt out wasn't taking anyone's job but serving the Community. As were the Police who were attacked when trying to protect people and property It isn't clear if the UDA/UVF organized the riots but nothing happens in this area without their say so. At the Anti Immigrant Protest you can see Union Flags obviously but also many Israeli Flags. At the counter Pro Immigrant Protest you can see Palestinian Flags. Lines are drawn and although Gaza isn't Hamas many protesting associate them with IRA. Sectarianism/Racism lives on. Even on this MB some repeatedly call the Palestinian Flag the Hamas Flag. That isn't to say that people don't have a right and a reason to Protest but they are targeting and scapegoating the wrong target. Austerity and poor governance are at the root cause of people's grievance. The majority protesting are not Racist but are fed up that Public Services and Housing are getting worse and worse. The numbers are swelled by youths prepared to engage in some gratuitous violence and looting. We have seen boys and girls as young as 12 being convicted of violent disorder in the Courts The Politicians in NI are every bit as inept as those on the mainland and exacerbated the situation by absenting themselves from the job they were elected to do because of the other thing you mention, Brexit, which they had campaigned for. I know you have no confidence in Labours ability or desire to make changes and you are right to be sceptical and you may prove to be correct. Redistribution of Wealth on a Grand Scale might work for a short period but people who have the determination to accumulate more wealth than they could ever need are not going to give it up easily or voluntarily. A fairer distribution is possible but the fundamental is to incrementally increase wealth with the distribution controlled by the State. It will take time but we have seen the alternative for the last 14 years and there is no one, in my view, on the Left or the Right offering a credible alternative. Therefore the ultimate alternative is anarchy which we have seen in a microcosm in the Riots with attacks on the Police, people and property. This was compounded by EU Freedom of movement. If All public services and housing grew at the same rate as immigration and the associated taxes Brexit wouldnt have happened. We have seen an influx of people with the problems it brings not addressed by governments that have led to this disorder
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Post by gawa on Aug 14, 2024 10:41:42 GMT
The parties have been listening to the electorate in terms of having it on their manifestos and campaigning for it. One of the key selling points of brexit was taking control of borders. Every election the conservatives spoke about reducing illegal immigration and made it a big part of their manifesto. It's not unique to the uk though. We see the same in Germany, Italy, France, USA and even Ireland now too. It seems no matter how far "right" we go in terms of voting and despite what gets promised by many political leaders across the world - not many of them seem to be able to solve the problem. Maybe we should be looking more to follow the direction of countries which have had successful immigration policies instead. Which ironically tend to be socialist and communist regimes... the same thing these "right wing" leaders fearmonger others over. š¤·āāļø And by socialist and communist I don't mean your Tony blairs or Kier Starmers. You're assuming the "problem" is immigrants when it is actually Austerity and Racism The rioting in South Belfast was every bit as violent as anywhere on the mainland and there are few if any "illegal" migrants in NI Of the 8,000 nurses working for The Belfast Health and Social Care Trust, the largest health trust in the UK, 1,000 are "International" I'd be surprised if quite a few aren't considering their options and the safety of themselves and their families exacerbating waiting times at an already creaking NHS The Syrian-owned supermarket or the Sudanese owned cafe which were burnt out wasn't taking anyone's job but serving the Community. As were the Police who were attacked when trying to protect people and property It isn't clear if the UDA/UVF organized the riots but nothing happens in this area without their say so. At the Anti Immigrant Protest you can see Union Flags obviously but also many Israeli Flags. At the counter Pro Immigrant Protest you can see Palestinian Flags. Lines are drawn and although Gaza isn't Hamas many protesting associate them with IRA. Sectarianism/Racism lives on. Even on this MB some repeatedly call the Palestinian Flag the Hamas Flag. That isn't to say that people don't have a right and a reason to Protest but they are targeting and scapegoating the wrong target. Austerity and poor governance are at the root cause of people's grievance. The majority protesting are not Racist but are fed up that Public Services and Housing are getting worse and worse. The numbers are swelled by youths prepared to engage in some gratuitous violence and looting. We have seen boys and girls as young as 12 being convicted of violent disorder in the Courts The Politicians in NI are every bit as inept as those on the mainland and exacerbated the situation by absenting themselves from the job they were elected to do because of the other thing you mention, Brexit, which they had campaigned for. I know you have no confidence in Labours ability or desire to make changes and you are right to be sceptical and you may prove to be correct. Redistribution of Wealth on a Grand Scale might work for a short period but people who have the determination to accumulate more wealth than they could ever need are not going to give it up easily or voluntarily. A fairer distribution is possible but the fundamental is to incrementally increase wealth with the distribution controlled by the State. It will take time but we have seen the alternative for the last 14 years and there is no one, in my view, on the Left or the Right offering a credible alternative. Therefore the ultimate alternative is anarchy which we have seen in a microcosm in the Riots with attacks on the Police, people and property. I'm not making any assumptions. You listen to Donald Trump, Nigel Farage, Marion Le Pen, Rishi Sunak, Giorgia Meloni and co. they don't say the problem is racism and austerity, they say the problem is immigration. It's not limited to just the above individuals though, it's right across the west with many "liberal" MPs also using the same language about taking back control. Here is a Labour MP doing it just the other week prior to people then attempting to burn immigrants out of the hotel: We have the leader of Germany, from the SDP, who also speaks about clamping down on immigration - www.politico.eu/article/germany-olaf-scholz-deportations-police-officer-killing-social-democratic-party-migration-european-election/We even have Kier Starmer who also uses the same language as all of the above: I'm not making any assumptions on what the problem is. But it's clear as day that whether they call themselves socialists , centrists, liberals, populists or right wing - anyone who gets the cusp of power in a western country buys into the "immigration" problem. The problem they all talk about for 20 years and campaign on and put on their manifestos but every single one oversees an increase in it too. It's the great distraction of western politics in the 21st century. Every country makes it a main and key talking point but no matter how much they all talk about it - it increases in every single country. It's a by product of globalisation, capitalisation and imperialism. For as long as you support these concepts, and for as long as we have corporations exerting power and influence over our governments, immigration is here to stay. So if people genuinely do see immigration as an issue and want to see numbers go down then they're best looking towards countries past and present which have had lower immigration. And those countries generally aren't the capitalist, globalist, imperalists. It's actually the socialist and communist countries. Maybe this is why the west spends so much time striking fear into people about socialism and communism... because it's the one thing which tends to actually tackle the immigration topic which our media has been using to fearmonger populations for the last couple of decades.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 14, 2024 12:18:06 GMT
You're assuming the "problem" is immigrants when it is actually Austerity and RacismĀ The rioting in South Belfast was every bit as violent as anywhere on the mainland and there are few if any "illegal" migrants in NI Of the 8,000 nurses working for The Belfast Health and Social Care Trust, the largest health trust in the UK, 1,000 are "International" I'd be surprised if quite a few aren't considering their options and the safety of themselves and their families exacerbating waiting times at an already creaking NHS The Syrian-owned supermarket or the Sudanese owned cafe which were burnt out wasn't taking anyone's job but serving the Community. AsĀ were the Police who were attacked when trying to protect people and propertyĀ It isn't clear if the UDA/UVF organized the riots but nothing happens in this area without their say so.Ā At the Anti Immigrant Protest you can see Union Flags obviously but also many Israeli Flags. At the counter Pro Immigrant Protest you can see Palestinian Flags. Lines are drawn and although Gaza isn't Hamas many protesting associate them with IRA. Sectarianism/Racism lives on. Even on this MB some repeatedly call the Palestinian Flag the Hamas Flag. That isn't to say that people don't have a right and a reason to Protest but they are targeting and scapegoating the wrong target. Austerity and poor governance are at the root cause of people's grievance. The majority protesting are not Racist but are fed up that Public Services and Housing are getting worse and worse. The numbers are swelled by youths prepared to engage in some gratuitous violence and looting. We have seen boys and girls as young as 12 being convicted of violent disorder in the CourtsĀ The Politicians in NI are every bit as inept as those on the mainland and exacerbated the situation by absenting themselves from the job they were elected to do because of the other thing you mention, Brexit, which they had campaigned for. I know you have no confidence in Labours ability or desire to make changes and you are right to be sceptical and you may prove to be correct.Ā Redistribution of Wealth on a Grand Scale might work for a short period but people who have the determination to accumulate more wealth than they could ever need are not going to give it up easily or voluntarily. A fairer distribution is possible but the fundamental is to incrementally increase wealth with the distribution controlled by the State.Ā It will take time but we have seen the alternative for the last 14 years and there is no one, in my view, on the Left or the Right offering a credible alternative. Therefore the ultimate alternative is anarchy which we have seen in a microcosm in the Riots with attacks on the Police, people and property. I'm not making any assumptions. You listen to Donald Trump, Nigel Farage, Marion Le Pen, Rishi Sunak, Giorgia Meloni and co. they don't say the problem is racism and austerity, they say the problem is immigration. It's not limited to just the above individuals though, it's right across the west with many "liberal" MPs also using the same language about taking back control. Here is a Labour MP doing it just the other week prior to people then attempting to burn immigrants out of the hotel: We have the leader of Germany, from the SDP, who also speaks about clamping down on immigration -Ā www.politico.eu/article/germany-olaf-scholz-deportations-police-officer-killing-social-democratic-party-migration-european-election/We even have Kier Starmer who also uses the same language as all of the above: I'm not making any assumptions on what the problem is. But it's clear as day that whether they call themselves socialists , centrists, liberals, populists or right wing - anyone who gets the cusp of power in a western country buys into the "immigration" problem. The problem they all talk about for 20 years and campaign on and put on their manifestos but every single one oversees an increase in it too.Ā It's the great distraction of western politics in the 21st century. Every country makes it a main and key talking point but no matter how much they all talk about it - it increases in every single country. It's a by product of globalisation, capitalisation andĀ imperialism. For as long as you support these concepts, and for as long as we have corporations exerting power and influence over our governments, immigration is here to stay.Ā So if people genuinely do see immigration as an issue and want to see numbers go down then they're best looking towards countries past and present which have had lower immigration. And those countries generally aren't the capitalist, globalist, imperalists. It's actually the socialist and communist countries. Maybe this is why the west spends so much time striking fear into people about socialism and communism... because it's the one thing which tends to actually tackle the immigration topic which our media has been using to fearmonger populations for the last couple of decades. And where exactly would I find this socialist utopia of which you speak?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 14, 2024 12:26:25 GMT
Immigration is the new Brexit.
Not long ago all our problems were down to the EU. Leave the EU and all our problems will be solved. Simples.
Guess what? They weren't.
So who do we blame now? Immigrants. Stop immigration and all our problems will be solved.
No they won't. The NHs would have a staffing crisis, the care sector would collapse, universities would go bankrupt and the economy will tank.
No matter, there will be another simple solution to all our problems coming along shortly.
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 14, 2024 13:01:42 GMT
Immigration is the new Brexit. Not long ago all our problems were down to the EU. Leave the EU and all our problems will be solved. Simples. Guess what? They weren't. So who do we blame now? Immigrants. Stop immigration and all our problems will be solved. No they won't. The NHs would have a staffing crisis, the care sector would collapse, universities would go bankrupt and the economy will tank. No matter, there will be another simple solution to all our problems coming along shortly. Exactly this. GB News are probably sponsoring illegal immigrants to come over to make their daily breaking news story.
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Post by salopstick on Aug 14, 2024 13:07:26 GMT
Immigration is the new Brexit. Not long ago all our problems were down to the EU. Leave the EU and all our problems will be solved. Simples. Guess what? They weren't. So who do we blame now? Immigrants. Stop immigration and all our problems will be solved. No they won't. The NHs would have a staffing crisis, the care sector would collapse, universities would go bankrupt and the economy will tank. No matter, there will be another simple solution to all our problems coming along shortly. immigration was part of the eu/brexit issue immigration is not a problem, not making our roads, housing, schools, infrastructure etc etc big enough to cope is the problem. All governments are failing at that. This is what causes frustration with the existing population
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