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Post by mrnovember on Nov 25, 2023 8:04:49 GMT
We should be proud of the student numbers. I presume you mean Foreign Students which is a credit to the UK Educational Institutions I have no idea what age you are, but are you equally proud of the number of Doctors the UK is training who may become GPs or Consultants to diagnose any future illnesses you may have The number of Dentists the UK is training such that you may get a Dental Appointment to attend to your Oral care. Or the number of Nurses the UK is Training to triage and administer your treatment if you're unfortunate enough to enter Hospital Or the number of Care Workers the UK is training if in your older age try to keep you in your home or if you unfortunately enter Residential Care wipe your Arse. The UK has abandoned this responsibility other than in a rationed way but if you're fortunate you may have enough money to pay for these Services Privately and avoid any need for waiting lists. If you can answer yes to any of the above it would be astonishing as it's simply not happening Caveat: at my age and circumstance I have no vested interest in needing to avail of these services Errm, I just meant that it's nice to have folk wanting to come here to further their education using our institutions and infrastructure. I'm well aware of the manning issues that the NHS faces now, nevermind the future. It doesn't surprise me that nowt is being done about it. I pick my missus up from NS a couple of times per week after her shift. Be it morning or night. On the drive back to November Towers (a cold damp terrace, towards the north of the city, definitely not the sort of dwelling suiting to a man with private health care) she frequently unloads on me, the details of her horrific day. I won't go into the details but even to a layman such as myself, the staffing and skills mix issue is clear as day, dangerous even sometimes. That and the fact that a considerable number of patients, quite frankly, are unreasonable cunts. There's plenty of heartwarming stuff in there too mind. She also tells me how impressed she is with the skills, knowledge and work ethic of her colleagues from other shores. Nursing degrees in particular appear to differ in scope from country to country, and as a result, a number of her team are better educated. That can only be a benefit to the UK but we should looking to benchmark imo. I'm not sure I've articulated this well and perhaps I missed your point so apologies if so. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 25, 2023 9:14:07 GMT
I presume you mean Foreign Students which is a credit to the UK Educational Institutions I have no idea what age you are, but are you equally proud of the number of Doctors the UK is training who may become GPs or Consultants to diagnose any future illnesses you may have The number of Dentists the UK is training such that you may get a Dental Appointment to attend to your Oral care. Or the number of Nurses the UK is Training to triage and administer your treatment if you're unfortunate enough to enter Hospital Or the number of Care Workers the UK is training if in your older age try to keep you in your home or if you unfortunately enter Residential Care wipe your Arse. The UK has abandoned this responsibility other than in a rationed way but if you're fortunate you may have enough money to pay for these Services Privately and avoid any need for waiting lists. If you can answer yes to any of the above it would be astonishing as it's simply not happening Caveat: at my age and circumstance I have no vested interest in needing to avail of these services Errm, I just meant that it's nice to have folk wanting to come here to further their education using our institutions and infrastructure. I'm well aware of the manning issues that the NHS faces now, nevermind the future. It doesn't surprise me that nowt is being done about it. I pick my missus up from NS a couple of times per week after her shift. Be it morning or night. On the drive back to November Towers (a cold damp terrace, towards the north of the city, definitely not the sort of dwelling suiting to a man with private health care) she frequently unloads on me, the details of her horrific day. I won't go into the details but even to a layman such as myself, the staffing and skills mix issue is clear as day, dangerous even sometimes. That and the fact that a considerable number of patients, quite frankly, are unreasonable cunts. There's plenty of heartwarming stuff in there too mind. She also tells me how impressed she is with the skills, knowledge and work ethic of her colleagues from other shores. Nursing degrees in particular appear to differ in scope from country to country, and as a result, a number of her team are better educated. That can only be a benefit to the UK but we should looking to benchmark imo. I'm not sure I've articulated this well and perhaps I missed your point so apologies if so. But surely we should be educating our own existing residents and stop stealing other countries nurses and making their situation worse. Its not fair is it? |
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 25, 2023 9:19:00 GMT
Should we be worried about the student numbers? I don't think so. I lived with non-British students when I was studying and the best we could afford was 4 of us in a converted 2 bed, we were hardly using up loads of housing. No kids, no health problems, and one did part time care work.
Nowadays foreign students can easily pay £25k+ tuition, which is better than exporting a car every year. Seems like a great deal.
If you cut down on students then either you have to make services shitter or raise taxes on working Brits.
We should be proud of the student numbers. Totally agree with your comment. I am very proud, as I am with most aspects of our country. Here are the latest stats released 5 days ago and the numbers are increasing. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7976/The UK is after the US a world centre for education. Apart from the revenue it brings in to support our higher education it provides a huge boost to the economy, and when those students return to their homeland it spreads British influence on the world. But there is also a price to pay. As when as the exceptionally high numbers coming from Hong Kong and Ukraine there are high numbers of students' dependants; many students are mature students. The government is taking action to curb student dependants numbers, which I am not sure is a good idea as we want to create a good impression of the UK as a compassionate country, not a mean country. www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/latest/news/international-students-boost-uk-economy#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20international%20students%20in,member%20of%20the%20resident%20population. The UK is becoming the major service economy of the world and education is a significant contributor. |
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 25, 2023 9:28:00 GMT
Errm, I just meant that it's nice to have folk wanting to come here to further their education using our institutions and infrastructure. I'm well aware of the manning issues that the NHS faces now, nevermind the future. It doesn't surprise me that nowt is being done about it. I pick my missus up from NS a couple of times per week after her shift. Be it morning or night. On the drive back to November Towers (a cold damp terrace, towards the north of the city, definitely not the sort of dwelling suiting to a man with private health care) she frequently unloads on me, the details of her horrific day. I won't go into the details but even to a layman such as myself, the staffing and skills mix issue is clear as day, dangerous even sometimes. That and the fact that a considerable number of patients, quite frankly, are unreasonable cunts. There's plenty of heartwarming stuff in there too mind. She also tells me how impressed she is with the skills, knowledge and work ethic of her colleagues from other shores. Nursing degrees in particular appear to differ in scope from country to country, and as a result, a number of her team are better educated. That can only be a benefit to the UK but we should looking to benchmark imo. I'm not sure I've articulated this well and perhaps I missed your point so apologies if so. But surely we should be educating our own existing residents and stop stealing other countries nurses and making their situation worse. Its not fair is it? Here are the latest stats: www.nmc.org.uk/about-us/reports-and-accounts/registration-statistics/#:~:text=2022%2D2023%20saw%20the%20highest,the%20world%2C%20mainly%20outside%20Europe. There are a high number of UK residents being trained as nurses as well as foreign residents, the problem the NHS has is the very high number leaving the profession or moving to the private health sector. This is due to being attracted to other jobs and the high numbers reaching retirement age. www.nmc.org.uk/globalassets/sitedocuments/data-reports/may-2023/annual-data-report-leavers-survey-2023.pdf |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 25, 2023 9:34:01 GMT
Either way the NHS is goosed. Major reform required in terms of privatisation. Nobody likes this conversation but it's the reality I'm afraid. We can't keep endlessly adding to our population without major changes to the NHS. And its the same with housebuilding. But our politicians and ourselves are too scared to talk about it. So the can keeps getting kicked....... |
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 25, 2023 10:29:47 GMT
Errm, I just meant that it's nice to have folk wanting to come here to further their education using our institutions and infrastructure. I'm well aware of the manning issues that the NHS faces now, nevermind the future. It doesn't surprise me that nowt is being done about it. I pick my missus up from NS a couple of times per week after her shift. Be it morning or night. On the drive back to November Towers (a cold damp terrace, towards the north of the city, definitely not the sort of dwelling suiting to a man with private health care) she frequently unloads on me, the details of her horrific day. I won't go into the details but even to a layman such as myself, the staffing and skills mix issue is clear as day, dangerous even sometimes. That and the fact that a considerable number of patients, quite frankly, are unreasonable cunts. There's plenty of heartwarming stuff in there too mind. She also tells me how impressed she is with the skills, knowledge and work ethic of her colleagues from other shores. Nursing degrees in particular appear to differ in scope from country to country, and as a result, a number of her team are better educated. That can only be a benefit to the UK but we should looking to benchmark imo. I'm not sure I've articulated this well and perhaps I missed your point so apologies if so. But surely we should be educating our own existing residents and stop stealing other countries nurses and making their situation worse. Its not fair is it? Or we could tackle it from the demand side. Way to many obese folk who eat and drink all the wrong things, take no exercise and then expect someone else to sort it out with drugs and operations when they've made themselves ill. Had the misfortune of spending a Friday night in A&E the other week with my 94 yo dad who'd had a fall. Take the drug and booze induced incidents out of the ward and they wouldn't have needed half the staff (most of whom were non UK - and hats off to them - I wouldn't be puked on and abused like they were for a Gold Pig). Public health in Britain is shocking. |
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Post by Veritas on Nov 25, 2023 10:31:12 GMT
This highlights the key staffing issue is retention rather than recruitment. There is no point in expending great effort to fill a bucket with a huge leaking hole at the bottom. |
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 25, 2023 10:32:34 GMT
The UK has always welcomed immigrants since we ended the religious intolerance of Tudor and Stuart times. As well as receiving Huguenots, Jews, and the largest ever immigration influx of Belgians in WWI, we have an open door to our former colonies which we are morally obliged to keep open, as we "raped" those countries during the days of empire. www.iwm.org.uk/history/how-belgian-refugees-kept-the-british-army-going-during-the-first-world-war#:~:text=During%20the%20First%20World%20War%20250%2C000%20Belgians%20came%20to%20Britain,of%20populations%20into%20the%20UK. We owe a huge debt to immigrants who helped rebuild the country after WWII and are helping keeping our health and welfare services going today. The word integration has been mentioned repeatedly on this thread. Integration is a two way process; UK society needs to change and evolve to accommodate immigrants, just as immigrants have to change and evolve. This is in all respects language, customs, etc. This process is what makes us uniquely British. Thankfully society is coming to realise this more and recognise the contribution the Windrush generation made, individuals from Frank Soo to Trevor Mcdonald, and the descendants of immigrants - dare I mention our present government? Better not! But as I've said time and again we are all descended from an immigrant. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 25, 2023 10:43:58 GMT
But surely we should be educating our own existing residents and stop stealing other countries nurses and making their situation worse. Its not fair is it? Or we could tackle it from the demand side. Way to many obese folk who eat and drink all the wrong things, take no exercise and then expect someone else to sort it out with drugs and operations when they've made themselves ill. Had the misfortune of spending a Friday night in A&E the other week with my 94 yo dad who'd had a fall. Take the drug and booze induced incidents out of the ward and they wouldn't have needed half the staff (most of whom were non UK - and hats off to them - I wouldn't be puked on and abused like they were for a Gold Pig). Public health in Britain is shocking. But I'm just big boned. I eat only vegetables and drink only water Doc, honest..........😆 I get your point but it wouldn't work in my opinion. Kids need to be educated about eating and exercise all the way through school. PE should be taken a whole load more seriously than it currently is. And the kids who can't handle proper PE need to be given something more manageable to at least get them moving about. Should be a mandatory GCSE subject to include some of the science behind food and the human body. |
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Post by Kpsje on Nov 25, 2023 11:09:43 GMT
I think it’s fair to say Vidigal7 is a twat. 1.46 - 1.49 (smiley face) |
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 25, 2023 11:28:35 GMT
Or we could tackle it from the demand side. Way to many obese folk who eat and drink all the wrong things, take no exercise and then expect someone else to sort it out with drugs and operations when they've made themselves ill. Had the misfortune of spending a Friday night in A&E the other week with my 94 yo dad who'd had a fall. Take the drug and booze induced incidents out of the ward and they wouldn't have needed half the staff (most of whom were non UK - and hats off to them - I wouldn't be puked on and abused like they were for a Gold Pig). Public health in Britain is shocking. But I'm just big boned. I eat only vegetables and drink only water Doc, honest..........😆 I get your point but it wouldn't work in my opinion. Kids need to be educated about eating and exercise all the way through school. PE should be taken a whole load more seriously than it currently is. And the kids who can't handle proper PE need to be given something more manageable to at least get them moving about. Should be a mandatory GCSE subject to include some of the science behind food and the human body. Agreed there's no silver bullet, nevertheless public heath in the UK is amongst the worst in Europe. news.sky.com/story/uk-gripped-by-sickness-explosion-costing-economy-15-billion-a-year-12923310And all that comes at a cost. To the health service, to the benefit system, and immigrants to backfill for Brits not working. Healthy people are happier, more productive, more likely to be in work, less likely to be depressed, make fewer visits to hospital and GP and live longer. However many would rather point a finger elsewhere. Immigrants, benefit scroungers, the NHS - and any mention of Public Health and measures to improve (ULEZ?) gets howled down as nanny state wokery. Yet it's the elephant in the room and there's no reason at all why we can't be at least as healthy as other better performing European nations. In my humble opinion that is. |
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Post by chad on Nov 25, 2023 11:30:39 GMT
Either way the NHS is goosed. Major reform required in terms of privatisation. Nobody likes this conversation but it's the reality I'm afraid. We can't keep endlessly adding to our population without major changes to the NHS. And it’s the same with housebuilding. But our politicians and ourselves are too scared to talk about it. So the can keeps getting kicked....... Spot on Mickey. The NHS is a fantastic thing but it’s creaking at the seams. The frontline staff are wonderful but the administration is woeful. No doubt when Labour get in they’ll blame it all on the Tories but I doubt they will improve it and will be afraid to make any radical changes and it will just go on the same I’m not sure what the answer is.(but I don’t think it’s privatisation) |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 25, 2023 11:41:07 GMT
But I'm just big boned. I eat only vegetables and drink only water Doc, honest..........😆 I get your point but it wouldn't work in my opinion. Kids need to be educated about eating and exercise all the way through school. PE should be taken a whole load more seriously than it currently is. And the kids who can't handle proper PE need to be given something more manageable to at least get them moving about. Should be a mandatory GCSE subject to include some of the science behind food and the human body. Agreed there's no silver bullet, nevertheless public heath in the UK is amongst the worst in Europe. news.sky.com/story/uk-gripped-by-sickness-explosion-costing-economy-15-billion-a-year-12923310And all that comes at a cost. To the health service, to the benefit system, and immigrants to backfill for Brits not working. Healthy people are happier, more productive, more likely to be in work, less likely to be depressed, make fewer visits to hospital and GP and live longer. However many would rather point a finger elsewhere. Immigrants, benefit scroungers, the NHS - and any mention of Public Health and measures to improve (ULEZ?) gets howled down as nanny state wokery. Yet it's the elephant in the room and there's no reason at all why we can't be at least as healthy as other better performing European nations. In my humble opinion that is. Our miserable climate over the winter months probably doesn't help keeping kids active etc. But it's not a decent excuse in my opinion. Its all about proper education and overhauling a system that for too long has just been a token effort at instilling the necessity of activity and sensible eating. My kid is 13, he eats what he likes when he likes but all by himself manages to not eat crap all day. And he plays all kinds of team sports with his mates. And hey presto he looks healthy. Its definitely an education thing that will sort this out. But it has to be done properly. In my humble opinion. But in the same breath some kids are just bigger and struggle with weight. So that needs factoring in as well. And also not all bigger people are unhealthy. One of the lads in my sons football team looks like a cannon ball but he's rapid and actually one of the fitter kids in the team. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 25, 2023 11:45:09 GMT
Either way the NHS is goosed. Major reform required in terms of privatisation. Nobody likes this conversation but it's the reality I'm afraid. We can't keep endlessly adding to our population without major changes to the NHS. And it’s the same with housebuilding. But our politicians and ourselves are too scared to talk about it. So the can keeps getting kicked....... Spot on Mickey. The NHS is a fantastic thing but it’s creaking at the seams. The frontline staff are wonderful but the administration is woeful. No doubt when Labour get in they’ll blame it all on the Tories but I doubt they will improve it and will be afraid to make any radical changes and it will just go on the same I’m not sure what the answer is.(but I don’t think it’s privatisation) Maybe not privatisation but agreed it needs some massive overhaul. If they could stop some of the waste it'd be a start. Hearing stories of striking NHS doctors picking up 5k plus for a days private contracting back to the NHS certainly doesn't help 🙄 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2023 12:21:34 GMT
Errm, I just meant that it's nice to have folk wanting to come here to further their education using our institutions and infrastructure. I'm well aware of the manning issues that the NHS faces now, nevermind the future. It doesn't surprise me that nowt is being done about it. I pick my missus up from NS a couple of times per week after her shift. Be it morning or night. On the drive back to November Towers (a cold damp terrace, towards the north of the city, definitely not the sort of dwelling suiting to a man with private health care) she frequently unloads on me, the details of her horrific day. I won't go into the details but even to a layman such as myself, the staffing and skills mix issue is clear as day, dangerous even sometimes. That and the fact that a considerable number of patients, quite frankly, are unreasonable cunts. There's plenty of heartwarming stuff in there too mind. She also tells me how impressed she is with the skills, knowledge and work ethic of her colleagues from other shores. Nursing degrees in particular appear to differ in scope from country to country, and as a result, a number of her team are better educated. That can only be a benefit to the UK but we should looking to benchmark imo. I'm not sure I've articulated this well and perhaps I missed your point so apologies if so. But surely we should be educating our own existing residents and stop stealing other countries nurses and making their situation worse. Its not fair is it? Many of our own residents see that they can get a hell of a lot more money moving abroad, eg Australia. UK universities also need to be supported by foreign fees, which are about 3x more (I think?) than domestic. I’m not really sure what solutions there are to that other than increasing tuition fees, going private and/or increasing taxation. That so many want to come to the UK still, from all around the world, highlights the perceived quality of its education system. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 25, 2023 12:26:40 GMT
Either way the NHS is goosed. Major reform required in terms of privatisation. Nobody likes this conversation but it's the reality I'm afraid. We can't keep endlessly adding to our population without major changes to the NHS. And it’s the same with housebuilding. But our politicians and ourselves are too scared to talk about it. So the can keeps getting kicked....... Spot on Mickey. The NHS is a fantastic thing but it’s creaking at the seams. The frontline staff are wonderful but the administration is woeful. No doubt when Labour get in they’ll blame it all on the Tories but I doubt they will improve it and will be afraid to make any radical changes and it will just go on the same I’m not sure what the answer is.(but I don’t think it’s privatisation) They improved it before, so it's not impossible. Whether they'll manage to do so this time around without raising taxes remains to be seen. They deserve the chance to try imo. The current government and Tories in general are fundamentally ideologically opposed to the NHS despite what they might say. Actions speak louder than words. Years of underfunding have created rising waiting lists and declining outcomes. This is another reason why the Tories will cut taxes again next Spring, to make it harder for the next government to tackle the issues the country faces. Remember that at the ballot box, or when they claim to be proud patriots, stood in front of a Union fag, taxes fund the public services we all rely on. One positive about privatising medical care is that at least the fatties, smokers, boozers etc will be paying more for their insurance premiums! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2023 12:29:26 GMT
Either way the NHS is goosed. Major reform required in terms of privatisation. Nobody likes this conversation but it's the reality I'm afraid. We can't keep endlessly adding to our population without major changes to the NHS. And it’s the same with housebuilding. But our politicians and ourselves are too scared to talk about it. So the can keeps getting kicked....... I honestly don’t see how the average UK person could afford private healthcare. People have mentioned that they’d expect something like a Dutch or a Scandinavian model. After Brexit, does anyone really expect UK politicians to deliver a competent deal with private healthcare? If you end up needing to pay the fees in the U.S., a lot more in the UK will move into bankruptcy. Child birth is a basic example that costs about $5,000 for the bed and a vaginal delivery, without insurance. Prescriptions can sky rocket as well when you no longer have the NHS to purchase drugs in bulk and one individual rate. The average out of pocket cost for insulin is about $60-70 depending on insurance type. Many people split up their insulin and skip days to get by. Hospital structure gets torn up even further. Hospitals overbill those with decent insurance to try and compensate for those without. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 25, 2023 12:33:26 GMT
Spot on Mickey. The NHS is a fantastic thing but it’s creaking at the seams. The frontline staff are wonderful but the administration is woeful. No doubt when Labour get in they’ll blame it all on the Tories but I doubt they will improve it and will be afraid to make any radical changes and it will just go on the same I’m not sure what the answer is.(but I don’t think it’s privatisation) They improved it before, so it's not impossible. Whether they'll manage to do so this time around without raising taxes remains to be seen. They deserve the chance to try imo. The current government and Tories in general are fundamentally ideologically opposed to the NHS despite what they might say. Actions speak louder than words. Years of underfunding have created rising waiting lists and declining outcomes. This is another reason why the Tories will cut taxes again next Spring, to make it harder for the next government to tackle the issues the country faces. Remember that at the ballot box, or when they claim to be proud patriots, stood in front of a Union fag, taxes fund the public services we all rely on. One positive about privatising medical care is that at least the fatties, smokers, boozers etc will be paying more for their insurance premiums! But the booze and fag tax pays for a lot of it. Hang on we've been here before........😆 And round and round we go. Our kids need to be educated properly about health food and exercise. And from a very young age. Its criminal not to if you ask me. |
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Post by vidigal7 on Nov 25, 2023 12:36:02 GMT
You've only got to look at all the opinion polls, you're in the minority Opinion polls are rarely representative. Unless they're stacked in your favour of course |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 25, 2023 12:36:19 GMT
Either way the NHS is goosed. Major reform required in terms of privatisation. Nobody likes this conversation but it's the reality I'm afraid. We can't keep endlessly adding to our population without major changes to the NHS. And it’s the same with housebuilding. But our politicians and ourselves are too scared to talk about it. So the can keeps getting kicked....... I honestly don’t see how the average UK person could afford private healthcare. People have mentioned that they’d expect something like a Dutch or a Scandinavian model. After Brexit, does anyone really expect UK politicians to deliver a competent deal with private healthcare? If you end up needing to pay the fees in the U.S., a lot more in the UK will move into bankruptcy. Child birth is a basic example that costs about $5,000 for the bed and a vaginal delivery, without insurance. Prescriptions can sky rocket as well when you no longer have the NHS to purchase drugs in bulk and one individual rate. The average out of pocket cost for insulin is about $60-70 depending on insurance type. Many people split up their insulin and skip days to get by. Hospital structure gets torn up even further. Hospitals overbill those with decent insurance to try and compensate for those without. Agreed. People should be very careful what they wish for. If there is any move towards a more privatised model of healthcare, the pros and cons should be properly laid out and debated first, ie not what happened with Brexit, or we might end up with the same catastrophic outcome. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 25, 2023 12:40:47 GMT
Either way the NHS is goosed. Major reform required in terms of privatisation. Nobody likes this conversation but it's the reality I'm afraid. We can't keep endlessly adding to our population without major changes to the NHS. And it’s the same with housebuilding. But our politicians and ourselves are too scared to talk about it. So the can keeps getting kicked....... I honestly don’t see how the average UK person could afford private healthcare. People have mentioned that they’d expect something like a Dutch or a Scandinavian model. After Brexit, does anyone really expect UK politicians to deliver a competent deal with private healthcare? If you end up needing to pay the fees in the U.S., a lot more in the UK will move into bankruptcy. Child birth is a basic example that costs about $5,000 for the bed and a vaginal delivery, without insurance. Prescriptions can sky rocket as well when you no longer have the NHS to purchase drugs in bulk and one individual rate. The average out of pocket cost for insulin is about $60-70 depending on insurance type. Many people split up their insulin and skip days to get by. Hospital structure gets torn up even further. Hospitals overbill those with decent insurance to try and compensate for those without. I haven't got the answer. However we can't keep adding endlessly to our population without a proper plan for our existing infrastructure. Cutting the inefficiencies would be a sensible place to start and then maybe some hybrid system where those better off have to contribute more somehow. It'll be highly unpopular and controversial no doubt. But just carrying on as it is will eventually lead to its collapse in my view. But getting the kids healthier is an absolute must and it needs to be taken far more seriously than the token bullshit we have now. Mandatory GCSE as a minimum. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 25, 2023 12:41:52 GMT
They improved it before, so it's not impossible. Whether they'll manage to do so this time around without raising taxes remains to be seen. They deserve the chance to try imo. The current government and Tories in general are fundamentally ideologically opposed to the NHS despite what they might say. Actions speak louder than words. Years of underfunding have created rising waiting lists and declining outcomes. This is another reason why the Tories will cut taxes again next Spring, to make it harder for the next government to tackle the issues the country faces. Remember that at the ballot box, or when they claim to be proud patriots, stood in front of a Union fag, taxes fund the public services we all rely on. One positive about privatising medical care is that at least the fatties, smokers, boozers etc will be paying more for their insurance premiums! But the booze and fag tax pays for a lot of it. Hang on we've been here before........😆 And round and round we go. Our kids need to be educated properly about health food and exercise. And from a very young age. Its criminal not to if you ask me. Yep, and those who already 'pay for it' through those routes may well find themselves paying an awful lot more for healthcare premiums, along with unhealthy eaters, the overweight etc. We 'tolerate' that at the moment, no sugar tax for example, will the commercial sector be quite so accommodating? I doubt it! Just saying that those who advocate privatisation as the answer should have a good long think about their own lifestyles and what it might mean for their pockets! |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 25, 2023 12:45:06 GMT
Not quite sure how we got onto this topic, but it's a welcome and, frankly, more relevant, pertinent and important break from some of the nonsensical bile that's been on this thread recently 😄
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 25, 2023 12:45:39 GMT
But the booze and fag tax pays for a lot of it. Hang on we've been here before........😆 And round and round we go. Our kids need to be educated properly about health food and exercise. And from a very young age. Its criminal not to if you ask me. Yep, and those who already 'pay for it' through those routes may well find themselves paying an awful lot more for healthcare premiums, along with unhealthy eaters, the overweight etc. We 'tolerate' that at the moment, no sugar tax for example, will the commercial sector be quite so accommodating? I doubt it! Just saying that those who advocate privatisation as the answer should have a good long think about their own lifestyles and what it might mean for their pockets! It's an uncomfortable debate. But one that needs to happen. Our politicians have kicked the can down the road. Mostly because we as a nation can't bear to actually have the conversation either. But the politicians know its a vote loser to venture too far from the status quo. Should be a cross party item with education in my opinion. Not a political football. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2023 12:58:20 GMT
I honestly don’t see how the average UK person could afford private healthcare. People have mentioned that they’d expect something like a Dutch or a Scandinavian model. After Brexit, does anyone really expect UK politicians to deliver a competent deal with private healthcare? If you end up needing to pay the fees in the U.S., a lot more in the UK will move into bankruptcy. Child birth is a basic example that costs about $5,000 for the bed and a vaginal delivery, without insurance. Prescriptions can sky rocket as well when you no longer have the NHS to purchase drugs in bulk and one individual rate. The average out of pocket cost for insulin is about $60-70 depending on insurance type. Many people split up their insulin and skip days to get by. Hospital structure gets torn up even further. Hospitals overbill those with decent insurance to try and compensate for those without. I haven't got the answer. However we can't keep adding endlessly to our population without a proper plan for our existing infrastructure. Cutting the inefficiencies would be a sensible place to start and then maybe some hybrid system where those better off have to contribute more somehow. It'll be highly unpopular and controversial no doubt. But just carrying on as it is will eventually lead to its collapse in my view. But getting the kids healthier is an absolute must and it needs to be taken far more seriously than the token bullshit we have now. Mandatory GCSE as a minimum. I absolutely believe that education is the first path forwards. That’s not just food, but providing reasons to eat healthily as well. Kids need to have better access to outdoor activities and sports. The govt need to provide more grant funding to establish community projects in a range of activities (not all kids want to play football (heathens)). When you start cutting back/not investing in those things, kids sit in a room and play on a computer with sodas to keep them alert. They also don’t “integrate” with kids of their own age and are probably more likely to go out looking for trouble as well. I don’t know what the future of the NHS is to be honest. I suspect that it will collapse one day. I think that it will hurt the British public a lot. If you can’t afford private healthcare now in the UK, you probably won’t be able to afford it later either (not you specifically, people in general). The first thing that will go up with private hospitals is salaries, for example. With the NHS pay structure gone, why wouldn’t doctors (and nurses) shop around to find jobs at higher wages? I’m fortunate in the US, I married well 😂. We can afford good healthcare but healthcare disparities across poverty levels are severe. |
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Post by vidigal7 on Nov 25, 2023 13:05:52 GMT
I think it’s fair to say Vidigal7 is a twat. I suggest other posters simply ignore him. Haha, you'd go v.i.p to indulge in a bit of Islamic multiculturalism |
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 25, 2023 13:24:34 GMT
Either way the NHS is goosed. Major reform required in terms of privatisation. Nobody likes this conversation but it's the reality I'm afraid. We can't keep endlessly adding to our population without major changes to the NHS. And it’s the same with housebuilding. But our politicians and ourselves are too scared to talk about it. So the can keeps getting kicked....... I honestly don’t see how the average UK person could afford private healthcare. People have mentioned that they’d expect something like a Dutch or a Scandinavian model. After Brexit, does anyone really expect UK politicians to deliver a competent deal with private healthcare? If you end up needing to pay the fees in the U.S., a lot more in the UK will move into bankruptcy. Child birth is a basic example that costs about $5,000 for the bed and a vaginal delivery, without insurance. Prescriptions can sky rocket as well when you no longer have the NHS to purchase drugs in bulk and one individual rate. The average out of pocket cost for insulin is about $60-70 depending on insurance type. Many people split up their insulin and skip days to get by. Hospital structure gets torn up even further. Hospitals overbill those with decent insurance to try and compensate for those without. I think there are better brains than ours who are engaged on how to square the circle of how to provide a "free" health service, effectively, at a sustainable cost. Whilst the UK NHS falls far short of many other nations it is better than most on a number of measures. It is woefully wasteful, but that is an inevitable consequence of being nationalised and a political football. It terms of service it is a postcode lottery. I live in the middle of North Yorkshire, use the NHS a lot and have little to complain about. I have a relative who suffered at the hands of Scarborough's service which has a dreadful reputation. I remember a story about Thatcher who was smarting from criticism about the NHS failures and asked her civil servants how much is needed to provide a quality service. She was horrified to be told you could spend the whole of the national expenditure on health and welfare, etc on the NHS and there would still be need to spend more. Many countries that spend more on health (per capita, or % GDP) don't support NATO to the level the UK does to defend world freedom. It's also a matter of priorities. The last Labour government set up health trusts, paid doctors more, stopped young doctors having to work 60 hours a week, and spent a lot more money. It improved the service a lot but it came at a cost; huge amounts of NHS expenditure are now for pensions, lots of doctors/dentists now just work 3 or 4 days a week because they are highly paid, and as the number of employees climbs and climbs so does the cost of administration that does nothing for patients. I dread to think what the NHS heating bill has been during the energy crisis! I think one action, which would be highly unpopular, is means testing. Can we really as a nation afford to give free prescriptions to everyone over 65 (or literally everybody in Wales) when lots of well off people can afford the cost? The wastage on prescriptions is massive, vast quantities being unused. Another major cost is legal claims. The government train NHS employees who then leave for the private sector, who could be made to recompense the NHS is they poach employees from the NHS. But then, as posted above, the UK is taking employees away from much poorer countries. Thank goodness for immigration, hey? Could we afford private health premiums? I think people would be staggered at what the government spends on the NHS per head of the population. Maybe they should just give us each our share and say look after yourself!!! I've heard that suggested in the past. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 25, 2023 13:34:04 GMT
I honestly don’t see how the average UK person could afford private healthcare. People have mentioned that they’d expect something like a Dutch or a Scandinavian model. After Brexit, does anyone really expect UK politicians to deliver a competent deal with private healthcare? If you end up needing to pay the fees in the U.S., a lot more in the UK will move into bankruptcy. Child birth is a basic example that costs about $5,000 for the bed and a vaginal delivery, without insurance. Prescriptions can sky rocket as well when you no longer have the NHS to purchase drugs in bulk and one individual rate. The average out of pocket cost for insulin is about $60-70 depending on insurance type. Many people split up their insulin and skip days to get by. Hospital structure gets torn up even further. Hospitals overbill those with decent insurance to try and compensate for those without. I think there are better brains than ours who are engaged on how to square the circle of how to provide a "free" health service, effectively, at a sustainable cost. Whilst the UK NHS falls far short of many other nations it is better than most on a number of measures. It is woefully wasteful, but that is an inevitable consequence of being nationalised and a political football. It terms of service it is a postcode lottery. I live in the middle of North Yorkshire, use the NHS a lot and have little to complain about. I have a relative who suffered at the hands of Scarborough's service which has a dreadful reputation. I remember a story about Thatcher who was smarting from criticism about the NHS failures and asked her civil servants how much is needed to provide a quality service. She was horrified to be told you could spend the whole of the national expenditure on health and welfare, etc on the NHS and there would still be need to spend more. Many countries that spend more on health (per capita, or % GDP) don't support NATO to the level the UK does to defend world freedom. It's also a matter of priorities. The last Labour government set up health trusts, paid doctors more, stopped young doctors having to work 60 hours a week, and spent a lot more money. It improved the service a lot but it came at a cost; huge amounts of NHS expenditure are now for pensions, lots of doctors/dentists now just work 3 or 4 days a week because they are highly paid, and as the number of employees climbs and climbs so does the cost of administration that does nothing for patients. I dread to think what the NHS heating bill has been during the energy crisis! I think one action, which would be highly unpopular, is means testing. Can we really as a nation afford to give free prescriptions to everyone over 65 (or literally everybody in Wales) when lots of well off people can afford the cost? The wastage on prescriptions is massive, vast quantities being unused. Another major cost is legal claims. The government train NHS employees who then leave for the private sector, who could be made to recompense the NHS is they poach employees from the NHS. But then, as posted above, the UK is taking employees away from much poorer countries. Thank goodness for immigration, hey? Could we afford private health premiums? I think people would be staggered at what the government spends on the NHS per head of the population. Maybe they should just give us each our share and say look after yourself!!! I've heard that suggested in the past. Thinking about it and further to what I've said above the 1st place to start is to make the NHS and education a cross party issue. The nation would be forced to accept uncomfortable truths that way. And it'd stop the political shenanigans. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2023 13:56:58 GMT
I honestly don’t see how the average UK person could afford private healthcare. People have mentioned that they’d expect something like a Dutch or a Scandinavian model. After Brexit, does anyone really expect UK politicians to deliver a competent deal with private healthcare? If you end up needing to pay the fees in the U.S., a lot more in the UK will move into bankruptcy. Child birth is a basic example that costs about $5,000 for the bed and a vaginal delivery, without insurance. Prescriptions can sky rocket as well when you no longer have the NHS to purchase drugs in bulk and one individual rate. The average out of pocket cost for insulin is about $60-70 depending on insurance type. Many people split up their insulin and skip days to get by. Hospital structure gets torn up even further. Hospitals overbill those with decent insurance to try and compensate for those without. I think there are better brains than ours who are engaged on how to square the circle of how to provide a "free" health service, effectively, at a sustainable cost. Whilst the UK NHS falls far short of many other nations it is better than most on a number of measures. It is woefully wasteful, but that is an inevitable consequence of being nationalised and a political football. It terms of service it is a postcode lottery. I live in the middle of North Yorkshire, use the NHS a lot and have little to complain about. I have a relative who suffered at the hands of Scarborough's service which has a dreadful reputation. I remember a story about Thatcher who was smarting from criticism about the NHS failures and asked her civil servants how much is needed to provide a quality service. She was horrified to be told you could spend the whole of the national expenditure on health and welfare, etc on the NHS and there would still be need to spend more. Many countries that spend more on health (per capita, or % GDP) don't support NATO to the level the UK does to defend world freedom. It's also a matter of priorities. The last Labour government set up health trusts, paid doctors more, stopped young doctors having to work 60 hours a week, and spent a lot more money. It improved the service a lot but it came at a cost; huge amounts of NHS expenditure are now for pensions, lots of doctors/dentists now just work 3 or 4 days a week because they are highly paid, and as the number of employees climbs and climbs so does the cost of administration that does nothing for patients. I dread to think what the NHS heating bill has been during the energy crisis! I think one action, which would be highly unpopular, is means testing. Can we really as a nation afford to give free prescriptions to everyone over 65 (or literally everybody in Wales) when lots of well off people can afford the cost? The wastage on prescriptions is massive, vast quantities being unused. Another major cost is legal claims. The government train NHS employees who then leave for the private sector, who could be made to recompense the NHS is they poach employees from the NHS. But then, as posted above, the UK is taking employees away from much poorer countries. Thank goodness for immigration, hey? Could we afford private health premiums? I think people would be staggered at what the government spends on the NHS per head of the population. Maybe they should just give us each our share and say look after yourself!!! I've heard that suggested in the past. I don’t share your optimism that “better brains” could come up with a solution. How’s the privatization of the water ways gone? Seems like a great service. Wastage can be prioritized. Privatization isn’t required for that, those “better brains” are. Cost per drug at the point of care is still way lower than many other countries. The NHS is a lottery, I agree. Yet, the disparities are infinitely smaller than countries like the U.S. Doctors around the world often work shifts that are similar to a 7 on, 7 off model. The idea being to work 40 hour work weeks over a 6 month period (which they don’t because when they get in, they’ll spend hours filing in notes for the next doctor and so on). The current “better brain” in charge of the whole lot has never worked in a healthcare field and takes in £160k a year. I’m sure she’ll do what’s best for the UK public. She’s definitely got the life experience and work experience to deliver 😂. Politics is full of politicians who fail upwards and stay in the system based on fame more than substance. |
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Post by maxplonk on Nov 25, 2023 14:34:06 GMT
Opinion polls are rarely representative. Unless they're stacked in your favour of course There's no need to judge me by your own questionable standards. |
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