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Post by Gawa on Oct 31, 2022 18:44:03 GMT
What relevance does this have? The threads named right wing terrorism. The wiki is about right wing terrorism. |
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Post by Gawa on Oct 31, 2022 18:45:45 GMT
I think they try to keep Islamic terrorists in their own separate group? But not sure. I wouldn't say they're left wing myself personally with a lot of their views being very far right. Woman's rights, gay rights, relegious rights etc.. And of course the authorative regimes they run too. Few on here have Alot more in common with Isis that they'd like to think. Aren't most religious fanatics conservative by nature? Whether that be Catholic, Protestant, Muslim or Jewish? Not too sure but think you may be right. Buddhists though would be left wing you'd think. Maybe sikh too. I don't know enough on religion to know if there is a proper link or not. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 31, 2022 20:01:47 GMT
What relevance does that have? Because Bayern's comment was one sided and inaccurate. No it wasn’t. It’s a thread about right wing terrorism. Strangely you’ve tried to spin that and bring in a totally irrelevant group to this conversation for no reason. |
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Post by thevoid on Oct 31, 2022 20:57:23 GMT
Because Bayern's comment was one sided and inaccurate. No it wasn’t. It’s a thread about right wing terrorism. Strangely you’ve tried to spin that and bring in a totally irrelevant group to this conversation for no reason. I'm not going down a rabbit hole with you as we all know that you'd spend hours arguing about the weather if someone engaged you, so my final reply to you on the matter is this: You stated that mental health issues are used to explain away right wing terrorism. I provided evidence to the contrary, and asked you to provide evidence to back up your point (which you have so far failed to do). Surely a reasonable enough request on a discussion forum? I also highlighted an example of the mental health excuse being used regarding other incidents, as the wording of your post alluded that it was the sole preserve of right wing attacks. In addition, I've not brought any group into it- you've made that connection yourself. It's not my fault that you saw the words 'drive trucks into Xmas shoppers' and associated that with Muslims. The person who drove the vehicle is irrelevant- it was an abhorrent act but one where the predictable 'mental health' excuse was trotted out. (Not surprising that you've garnered likes from a couple of the resident fanatics 😀) |
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Post by thevoid on Oct 31, 2022 21:57:43 GMT
Assuming we aren't just sticking to the UK, David Dorn (a black man no less) is the forgotten name when we discuss George Floyd and the shenanigans that went on afterwards en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_David_Dorn?wprov=sfla1Dorn was responding to an alarm at his friend's shop when he was fatally shot by a protestor. So much for 'Black Lives Matter' hey? The sad irony here is a career criminal and misogynist like Floyd becomes a martyr with murals and statues dedicated to him and a law abiding chap like Dorn is relegated to the status of afterthought. One wonders if more had been made of his death had it been the fault of the police? Disgraceful act. Glad that they managed to identify those who committed the crime, should never have happened in the first place though. Especially over something as trivial as a TV. The difference between you and I, is that in both instances I see an individual who was called unlawfully and deserves justice. How many black people have been murdered by authorities and no justice has been served? It doesn't matter if they're a "career criminal", before all else they're a human being. Referencing someone's past crimes doesn't suddenly make their death OK, it just weakens the argument as it comes across that because of their past that means the death is justified. Just because you agree with the general message behind a movement, doesn't mean you're supporting all the extremist actions which may follow it. And similarly it doesn't mean you agree with all parts of it either. I don't agree with the IRA or the acts of terrorism they committed either. Lots of innocent people died needless deaths on all sides. I'll never support Sinn Fein either due to their links with the IRA. With that said though, I understand that catholics were treated as second class citizens for a long time and maybe if the troubles didn't break out, they'd still be second class citizens today. So I support the movement of the Northern Irish catholics to get equality and treated fairly. But I don't support IRA which attached themselves to it. From what I see though. Alot of those who are against the organisation "BLM" also appear to be against the general movement and message too. They don't recognise the amount of needless black deaths at the hand of the authorities and instead basically try to suggest "they must have deserved it". You can support "Black Lives Matter" and be opposed to all or some of the BLM actions at the same time. Do I think people should pull down historical statues in a protest? No. Even if they were slave traders, it is not the right of those protesting to take those actions. Leave that debate to the council and MP's. Do I agree with looting stores and murdering innocent people protecting their shops? No, not at all. Do I support people taking a knee to raise awareness of the problems faced by black people. Yes. That is an innocent act of solidarity and the right way to do it. Agree with a lot of what you say there but I do think the whole 'taking the knee' and post-George Floyd unrest is another example of us mindlessly importing and copying the Yanks. But in the age of social media, you have to be seen to be doing something, even if that something is pretty pointless. I can't remember such a backlash when Stephen Lawrence was killed on these shores, but that was way before the internet and the age of Twitter likes- would your average American even know who Stephen was? It's been done to death elsewhere (and we all know Bayern's suddenly become a stickler for keeping threads on topic!) but to touch on it briefly, what does taking the knee achieve? It's meaningless window dressing- clubs who have problems with racist chanting on the terraces should face penalties, that will do far more to address the problem than empty gestures. Likewise, users on social media should be vetted and made to use their actual names so that any instances of hateful abuse will be addressed a lot quicker. |
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Post by Gawa on Oct 31, 2022 22:46:39 GMT
Disgraceful act. Glad that they managed to identify those who committed the crime, should never have happened in the first place though. Especially over something as trivial as a TV. The difference between you and I, is that in both instances I see an individual who was called unlawfully and deserves justice. How many black people have been murdered by authorities and no justice has been served? It doesn't matter if they're a "career criminal", before all else they're a human being. Referencing someone's past crimes doesn't suddenly make their death OK, it just weakens the argument as it comes across that because of their past that means the death is justified. Just because you agree with the general message behind a movement, doesn't mean you're supporting all the extremist actions which may follow it. And similarly it doesn't mean you agree with all parts of it either. I don't agree with the IRA or the acts of terrorism they committed either. Lots of innocent people died needless deaths on all sides. I'll never support Sinn Fein either due to their links with the IRA. With that said though, I understand that catholics were treated as second class citizens for a long time and maybe if the troubles didn't break out, they'd still be second class citizens today. So I support the movement of the Northern Irish catholics to get equality and treated fairly. But I don't support IRA which attached themselves to it. From what I see though. Alot of those who are against the organisation "BLM" also appear to be against the general movement and message too. They don't recognise the amount of needless black deaths at the hand of the authorities and instead basically try to suggest "they must have deserved it". You can support "Black Lives Matter" and be opposed to all or some of the BLM actions at the same time. Do I think people should pull down historical statues in a protest? No. Even if they were slave traders, it is not the right of those protesting to take those actions. Leave that debate to the council and MP's. Do I agree with looting stores and murdering innocent people protecting their shops? No, not at all. Do I support people taking a knee to raise awareness of the problems faced by black people. Yes. That is an innocent act of solidarity and the right way to do it. Agree with a lot of what you say there but I do think the whole 'taking the knee' and post-George Floyd unrest is another example of us mindlessly importing and copying the Yanks. But in the age of social media, you have to be seen to be doing something, even if that something is pretty pointless. I can't remember such a backlash when Stephen Lawrence was killed on these shores, but that was way before the internet and the age of Twitter likes- would your average American even know who Stephen was? It's been done to death elsewhere (and we all know Bayern's suddenly become a stickler for keeping threads on topic!) but to touch on it briefly, what does taking the knee achieve? It's meaningless window dressing- clubs who have problems with racist chanting on the terraces should face penalties, that will do far more to address the problem than empty gestures. Likewise, users on social media should be vetted and made to use their actual names so that any instances of hateful abuse will be addressed a lot quicker. I highly doubt they'd know of Stephen Lawrence but at the same time I think George Lloyd is simply the trigger for the movement rather than what it revolved around. Just like decades before when we had the Martin Luther King Jr movement. The same history is repeating itself in Iran now too over women's rights. And again it was the death of a young woman who triggered that. But just like "BLM" this isn't something new, it's something repeating itself. And while we can sit here and debate about various other races such as South Asians, Chinese and even white people in some places encountering racism. I personally don't see it as a threat against me. But I bet there most certainly are some radical extremists in there who are racist to white people. And you'll always get people clinging on to these movements who have a different motive. I could ask the same questions though about wear pink for breast cancer, red nose day, rainbow armbands, livestrong bracelets, semi colon tattoos about mental health etc. Like in terms of improving any of the conditions, what do those achieve? And that's mainly awareness and discussion. And yeah we can say well white lives matter too. But it's like me saying to someone who is wearing pink for breast cancer having had a family member suffer it that I think their movement is pointless and achieves nothing. And that men have a much lower survival rate from prostate cancer and in contrast it barely receives any funding or research. And that people with prostate cancer matter too. And they do. But I think sometimes there's a time, place and way to raise these things. And sometimes it can appear racist when people are willing to die on a hill arguing about taking a knee, but don't kick up the same fuss about all the other fads. And I'm not implying you're racist either. Because your opinion on taking the knee is shared by many and it doesn't come from a racist place. Because I do agree in a way. It has raised awareness but it has run its course and even some black footballers have come out and spoken against that. So to summarise. While I don't agree with everything surrounding "BLM", I agree with the underlying message. And if a black footballer or any other wants to take the knee, then so be it, I support them. I think at the same time though some of us "lefties" can also appear quite radical with our views. It's much easier to sit on the fence or support contentious topics like gay rights, trans rights, immigrants, black rights, benefits, strikers, protesters than oppose it. Because you can always take the morale high ground of being on the side of the people and the vulnerable. So to come on and be true to yourself and voice opinions which may be unpopular should be respected. And I think for me while I support alot of the above, you also need to create boundaries and draw a line. Because if not we will have men identifying as sheep and being in relationships with sheep in the near future. But for now I just see most of those topics as low hanging fruits. The big things for me are affordable housing, good healthcare, stable economy, clamping down on tax loopholes, drug reform, improved and affordable social care etc.. And just to be able to feel positive about the future rather than watching all our public services collapse around us as we sleepwalk into a third world country. And unfortunately to me it feels like the tories are failing on all those key points and have made alot of them worse. While at the same time attempting to distract us all from their failings and making us argue over, what to me is trivial bullshit in the grand scheme of things. |
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Post by Gawa on Oct 31, 2022 22:51:28 GMT
Sorry I go off on some huge tangents on here. I do love a good debate on these forums though lol.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 31, 2022 22:55:48 GMT
Disgraceful act. Glad that they managed to identify those who committed the crime, should never have happened in the first place though. Especially over something as trivial as a TV. The difference between you and I, is that in both instances I see an individual who was called unlawfully and deserves justice. How many black people have been murdered by authorities and no justice has been served? It doesn't matter if they're a "career criminal", before all else they're a human being. Referencing someone's past crimes doesn't suddenly make their death OK, it just weakens the argument as it comes across that because of their past that means the death is justified. Just because you agree with the general message behind a movement, doesn't mean you're supporting all the extremist actions which may follow it. And similarly it doesn't mean you agree with all parts of it either. I don't agree with the IRA or the acts of terrorism they committed either. Lots of innocent people died needless deaths on all sides. I'll never support Sinn Fein either due to their links with the IRA. With that said though, I understand that catholics were treated as second class citizens for a long time and maybe if the troubles didn't break out, they'd still be second class citizens today. So I support the movement of the Northern Irish catholics to get equality and treated fairly. But I don't support IRA which attached themselves to it. From what I see though. Alot of those who are against the organisation "BLM" also appear to be against the general movement and message too. They don't recognise the amount of needless black deaths at the hand of the authorities and instead basically try to suggest "they must have deserved it". You can support "Black Lives Matter" and be opposed to all or some of the BLM actions at the same time. Do I think people should pull down historical statues in a protest? No. Even if they were slave traders, it is not the right of those protesting to take those actions. Leave that debate to the council and MP's. Do I agree with looting stores and murdering innocent people protecting their shops? No, not at all. Do I support people taking a knee to raise awareness of the problems faced by black people. Yes. That is an innocent act of solidarity and the right way to do it. Agree with a lot of what you say there but I do think the whole 'taking the knee' and post-George Floyd unrest is another example of us mindlessly importing and copying the Yanks. But in the age of social media, you have to be seen to be doing something, even if that something is pretty pointless. I can't remember such a backlash when Stephen Lawrence was killed on these shores, but that was way before the internet and the age of Twitter likes- would your average American even know who Stephen was? It's been done to death elsewhere (and we all know Bayern's suddenly become a stickler for keeping threads on topic!) but to touch on it briefly, what does taking the knee achieve? It's meaningless window dressing- clubs who have problems with racist chanting on the terraces should face penalties, that will do far more to address the problem than empty gestures. Likewise, users on social media should be vetted and made to use their actual names so that any instances of hateful abuse will be addressed a lot quicker. I agree with a lot of the sentiment your say But the Botched Stephen Lawrence investigation by the Met and the subsequent Macpherson Report was definitely a watershed to at least acknowledge Racism was rife within the way Racism was prevalent in how the Met Policed Racism is a Societal problem not a Football problem Having said that if particular Football Clubs have supporters who persistently behave Racially then a punishment for that Club may at a minimum get them ( the racists) to moderate their behaviour and at best get them to examine their actions I entirely agree with you that SM is a cesspit and other than this MB I don't participate |
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Post by thevoid on Nov 1, 2022 7:36:57 GMT
On a related note, has anyone been watching The Walk In on ITV?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 1, 2022 8:45:57 GMT
On a related note, has anyone been watching The Walk In on ITV? Binge watched them all last week as I was stuck in the house with bronchitis, anything with Stephen Graham in is good generally and I think it was a fairly accurate portrayal of the complicated world of terrorism and those that track these people and bring them to justice. I enjoyed it……. |
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Post by starkiller on Nov 1, 2022 9:51:38 GMT
Why does everything need to be labeled a 'wing'?
If you are using these terms, is, say, Islamic terrorism left or right wing?
Anyway, I'm just about to have my left wing meal, after a right wing shower.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 1, 2022 10:22:51 GMT
On a related note, has anyone been watching The Walk In on ITV? Binge watched them all last week as I was stuck in the house with bronchitis, anything with Stephen Graham in is good generally and I think it was a fairly accurate portrayal of the complicated world of terrorism and those that track these people and bring them to justice. I enjoyed it……. Anything with Stephen Graham in is worth watching |
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Post by mossleypotter on Nov 1, 2022 11:31:37 GMT
said:On a related note, has anyone been watching The Walk In on ITV?
Caught the last three quarters of a programme called "Nazi Hunters -The Real Walk In" on ITV last night.
It was very interesting and looks scarily like the characters and events shown in the current ITV show we're very close to the real thing. It's on that ITV Hub if anyone fancies it.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 1, 2022 12:26:15 GMT
Why does everything need to be labeled a 'wing'? If you are using these terms, is, say, Islamic terrorism left or right wing? Anyway, I'm just about to have my left wing meal, after a right wing shower. Certain terrorist acts can be defined as originating from one area of political thinking. However, I think that was the point about needlessly introducing the terrorism of trucks driving into crowds - why did Islamic terrorism need to be brought into a thread about right-wing terrorism? |
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Post by thevoid on Nov 1, 2022 12:36:06 GMT
Why does everything need to be labeled a 'wing'? If you are using these terms, is, say, Islamic terrorism left or right wing? Anyway, I'm just about to have my left wing meal, after a right wing shower. Certain terrorist acts can be defined as originating from one area of political thinking. However, I think that was the point about needlessly introducing the terrorism of trucks driving into crowds - why did Islamic terrorism need to be brought into a thread about right-wing terrorism? It's been explained numerous times above mate 🙂 I would have used an IRA or ETA attack if it made you feel better but I couldn't find any examples where mental illness was used as an excuse. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 1, 2022 12:37:37 GMT
Why does everything need to be labeled a 'wing'? If you are using these terms, is, say, Islamic terrorism left or right wing? Anyway, I'm just about to have my left wing meal, after a right wing shower. Certain terrorist acts can be defined as originating from one area of political thinking. However, I think that was the point about needlessly introducing the terrorism of trucks driving into crowds - why did Islamic terrorism need to be brought into a thread about right-wing terrorism? I don’t think it’s necessarily down to the extremism being left or right. It’s more down to the reaction from either side after the event that’s the problem. For me regardless of who’s involved violence towards innocent members of the public should never be condoned regardless of your political view. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 1, 2022 15:18:07 GMT
Certain terrorist acts can be defined as originating from one area of political thinking. However, I think that was the point about needlessly introducing the terrorism of trucks driving into crowds - why did Islamic terrorism need to be brought into a thread about right-wing terrorism? It's been explained numerous times above mate 🙂 I would have used an IRA or ETA attack if it made you feel better but I couldn't find any examples where mental illness was used as an excuse. I didn't think the truck atrocity was an example where mental illness was used as an excuse either? I guess you were just unlucky that your mind leapt to some Islamic fundamentalist terrorism as an example of balance to offset right-wing terrorism. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 1, 2022 15:20:20 GMT
Why does everything need to be labeled a 'wing'? If you are using these terms, is, say, Islamic terrorism left or right wing? Anyway, I'm just about to have my left wing meal, after a right wing shower. I agree. If people had any sense they would all vote for the centre parties. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 1, 2022 16:17:38 GMT
Why does everything need to be labeled a 'wing'? If you are using these terms, is, say, Islamic terrorism left or right wing? Anyway, I'm just about to have my left wing meal, after a right wing shower. I agree. If people had any sense they would all vote for the centre parties. Keeping the status quo and tinkering around the edges, that’s what the poor and marginalised in society need….. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 1, 2022 17:50:51 GMT
I agree. If people had any sense they would all vote for the centre parties. Keeping the status quo and tinkering around the edges, that’s what the poor and marginalised in society need….. Status quo!? When was the last time we had a lib dem government? Arguably Blair was centrist. Status quo is right wing. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 1, 2022 17:52:33 GMT
Keeping the status quo and tinkering around the edges, that’s what the poor and marginalised in society need….. Status quo!? When was the last time we had a lib dem government? Arguably Blair was centrist. Status quo is right wing. Great band  On a serious note. Have we ever had a left wing government? I don’t remember one in my lifetime. |
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Post by thevoid on Nov 1, 2022 17:54:27 GMT
It's been explained numerous times above mate 🙂 I would have used an IRA or ETA attack if it made you feel better but I couldn't find any examples where mental illness was used as an excuse. I didn't think the truck atrocity was an example where mental illness was used as an excuse either? I guess you were just unlucky that your mind leapt to some Islamic fundamentalist terrorism as an example of balance to offset right-wing terrorism. You made the connection, my myopic friend. I am a little surprised that someone such as yourself has seen the words 'truck, Xmas shoppers' and automatically attributed the act to Islam though. Seems a bit racist to me 🙄 |
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Post by thevoid on Nov 1, 2022 18:13:28 GMT
Status quo!? When was the last time we had a lib dem government? Arguably Blair was centrist. Status quo is right wing. Great band On a serious note. Have we ever had a left wing government? I don’t remember one in my lifetime. 'War Marshall' Blair certainly wasn't anyway |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 1, 2022 21:11:33 GMT
He had mental health issues according to his local MP, the anti-Muslim rants on social media were merely a by-product of that.....
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Post by Gawa on Nov 1, 2022 21:46:38 GMT
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 1, 2022 22:22:03 GMT
Keeping the status quo and tinkering around the edges, that’s what the poor and marginalised in society need….. Status quo!? When was the last time we had a lib dem government? Arguably Blair was centrist. Status quo is right wing. I would say status quote is populism. They'll be whatever ya want. |
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Post by wannabee on Nov 1, 2022 23:28:12 GMT
Clearly an individual with mental health issues. Or does that not apply this time? All the more reason Politicians and others in positions of authority have a duty to speak truth to power and not make inflammatory inaccurate statements which are self-serving and merely intended to protect their privalidged position by appealing to their base for their own self preservation Extraordinarily as Home Secretary Suella Braverman's "Performance" in HoC In which she conjured up an image of Britain being "Invaded" was Radicalisation under UK Law definition of "someone is being encouraged to develop extreme views of beliefs in support of terrorist groups or activities" We may never know how the vulnerable Andrew Leak was Radicalised, but there are unfortunately many other vulnerable people in UK who may have been Radicalised by Braverman's careless words |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2022 1:47:17 GMT
Clearly an individual with mental health issues. Or does that not apply this time?      Convincing anti vax argument tbf. Must watch the same YouTube channels as a few others on here. Sounds mentally ill to me. And judging by how he writes (and what he did of course) someone sadly not bright enough to have the moment of clarity necessary to snap out of his fever dream and pull himself back from the precipice. Sadly, such people are ripe for radicalisation. Thank fuck he was too inept to achieve serious damage to anyone but himself. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 2, 2022 7:23:58 GMT
I didn't think the truck atrocity was an example where mental illness was used as an excuse either? I guess you were just unlucky that your mind leapt to some Islamic fundamentalist terrorism as an example of balance to offset right-wing terrorism. You made the connection, my myopic friend. I am a little surprised that someone such as yourself has seen the words 'truck, Xmas shoppers' and automatically attributed the act to Islam though. Seems a bit racist to me 🙄 Well, if you can point me in the direction of "a truck being driven into Christmas shoppers" as a specific example of left-wing terrorism or mental illness rather than Islamic terrorism, I'll let you off and your comment will look more like the balance you're trying to claim and less like your old daily contributions to the thankfully now defunct I Hate Muslims thread! Strange how much the rantings of the bloke who carried out the recent attack reminded me of many of the contributions to that thread. |
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Post by thevoid on Nov 2, 2022 7:38:59 GMT
You made the connection, my myopic friend. I am a little surprised that someone such as yourself has seen the words 'truck, Xmas shoppers' and automatically attributed the act to Islam though. Seems a bit racist to me 🙄 Well, if you can point me in the direction of "a truck being driven into Christmas shoppers" as a specific example of left-wing terrorism or mental illness rather than Islamic terrorism, I'll let you off and your comment will look more like the balance you're trying to claim and less like your old daily contributions to the thankfully now defunct I Hate Muslims thread! Strange how much the rantings of the bloke who carried out the recent attack reminded me of that thread. You'll let me off- why thank you, kind sir 😀 I'll let you know when I need absolution, Father Bluers! |
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