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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 2, 2022 7:48:40 GMT
Well, if you can point me in the direction of "a truck being driven into Christmas shoppers" as a specific example of left-wing terrorism or mental illness rather than Islamic terrorism, I'll let you off and your comment will look more like the balance you're trying to claim and less like your old daily contributions to the thankfully now defunct I Hate Muslims thread! Strange how much the rantings of the bloke who carried out the recent attack reminded me of that thread. You'll let me off- why thank you, kind sir 😀 I'll let you know when I need absolution, Father Bluers! You're welcome. Looking forward to your example...  |
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Post by walstoke on Nov 2, 2022 8:11:47 GMT
You'll let me off- why thank you, kind sir 😀 I'll let you know when I need absolution, Father Bluers! You're welcome. Looking forward to your example... The blm supporting Darlington Brooks has just been found guilty of driving his car into a Christmas parade in waukesha. He was found guilty on 76 charges including 6 of 1st degree murder. |
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Post by Gawa on Nov 2, 2022 8:32:24 GMT
You're welcome. Looking forward to your example... The blm supporting Darlington Brooks has just been found guilty of driving his car into a Christmas parade in waukesha. He was found guilty on 76 charges including 6 of 1st degree murder. Generally, the left-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism" while the right-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism". I don't believe someone who posts anti-white stuff is someone who believes in equality, rights or progress. If anything its promoting the opposite and inequality. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 2, 2022 8:34:00 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 2, 2022 8:39:37 GMT
You're welcome. Looking forward to your example... The blm supporting Darlington Brooks has just been found guilty of driving his car into a Christmas parade in waukesha. He was found guilty on 76 charges including 6 of 1st degree murder. And the specific example of "driving a truck into Christmas shoppers..." not seen any left-wing or mental illness example of that yet, but there may be some to go with the acts carried out in the name of Islamic terrorism? |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 2, 2022 9:28:07 GMT
Isn’t the biggest issue around denouncing all terrorism rather than saying left’s worse than right or visa versa.
Isn’t it about the loss of innocent lives rather than justifying the cause, trying to say “it’s OK because.” or point scoring.
We’re all guilty of taking a stance on politics or law but there’s a big difference between having a view and someone blowing up or killing an innocent person because of that view.
Terrorism is extremism in its worst form and is generally about an individual or in some cases a group of vulnerable people influenced and led by an individual.
I’m as guilty as anyone on here re trying to push my views but crikey there’s a huge different between being opinionated and acting out violence to prove a point in the worst way possible.
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Post by walstoke on Nov 2, 2022 9:56:41 GMT
The blm supporting Darlington Brooks has just been found guilty of driving his car into a Christmas parade in waukesha. He was found guilty on 76 charges including 6 of 1st degree murder. And the specific example of "driving a truck into Christmas shoppers..." not seen any left-wing or mental illness example of that yet, but there may be some to go with the acts carried out in the name of Islamic terrorism? I was just pointing out an example. He certainly identified as a democrat and blm. I'm neither left nor right and despise both leak and Brooks. The media and politicians both here and over the pond have blood on their hands. Something puts these mad ideas in people's heads. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 2, 2022 12:15:32 GMT
Isn’t the biggest issue around denouncing all terrorism rather than saying left’s worse than right or visa versa. Isn’t it about the loss of innocent lives rather than justifying the cause, trying to say “it’s OK because.” or point scoring. We’re all guilty of taking a stance on politics or law but there’s a big difference between having a view and someone blowing up or killing an innocent person because of that view. Terrorism is extremism in its worst form and is generally about an individual or in some cases a group of vulnerable people influenced and led by an individual. I’m as guilty as anyone on here re trying to push my views but crikey there’s a huge different between being opinionated and acting out violence to prove a point in the worst way possible. True. And there's an even bigger difference between being opinionated on an obscure football forum and using incendiary words from somewhere like the Home Office or in similarly influential things like the press. |
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Post by walstoke on Nov 2, 2022 12:31:00 GMT
Isn’t the biggest issue around denouncing all terrorism rather than saying left’s worse than right or visa versa. Isn’t it about the loss of innocent lives rather than justifying the cause, trying to say “it’s OK because.” or point scoring. We’re all guilty of taking a stance on politics or law but there’s a big difference between having a view and someone blowing up or killing an innocent person because of that view. Terrorism is extremism in its worst form and is generally about an individual or in some cases a group of vulnerable people influenced and led by an individual. I’m as guilty as anyone on here re trying to push my views but crikey there’s a huge different between being opinionated and acting out violence to prove a point in the worst way possible. True. And there's an even bigger difference between being opinionated on an obscure football forum and using incendiary words from somewhere like the Home Office or in similarly influential things like the press. The press and politicians really need to watch their rhetoric, people don't usually form extreme views without some sort of brain washing. In the US the two wings of press are so polarised it's insane. I don't think we're that far gone, but we're getting there. The thing that riles me most, they know what they're doing, playing on people's fears. I can't see it improving anytime soon. |
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 2, 2022 12:38:48 GMT
Isn’t the biggest issue around denouncing all terrorism rather than saying left’s worse than right or visa versa. Isn’t it about the loss of innocent lives rather than justifying the cause, trying to say “it’s OK because.” or point scoring. We’re all guilty of taking a stance on politics or law but there’s a big difference between having a view and someone blowing up or killing an innocent person because of that view. Terrorism is extremism in its worst form and is generally about an individual or in some cases a group of vulnerable people influenced and led by an individual. I’m as guilty as anyone on here re trying to push my views but crikey there’s a huge different between being opinionated and acting out violence to prove a point in the worst way possible. 2 points: Point scoring or 'dick measuring' - far too many people do it on here, passing off their views as fact. Which leads to my second point which is, a few posters pretending to be knowledgeable on a subject which they know absolutely fuck all about. makes me laugh and sad at the same time. |
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Post by thevoid on Nov 2, 2022 14:26:53 GMT
The blm supporting Darlington Brooks has just been found guilty of driving his car into a Christmas parade in waukesha. He was found guilty on 76 charges including 6 of 1st degree murder. Generally, the left-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism" while the right-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism". I don't believe someone who posts anti-white stuff is someone who believes in equality, rights or progress. If anything its promoting the opposite and inequality. Interesting perspective- are black nationalists 'right wing' as 'far right' has always been affiliated to whites as far as I'm aware? Also, some nationalist groups such as ETA and some of the smaller groups in N Ireland are aligned with the far left/Marxism en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_%28separatist_group%29?wprov=sfla1 |
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Post by Gawa on Nov 2, 2022 15:08:02 GMT
Generally, the left-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism" while the right-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism". I don't believe someone who posts anti-white stuff is someone who believes in equality, rights or progress. If anything its promoting the opposite and inequality. Interesting perspective- are black nationalists 'right wing' as 'far right' has always been affiliated to whites as far as I'm aware? Also, some nationalist groups such as ETA and some of the smaller groups in N Ireland are aligned with the far left/Marxism en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_%28separatist_group%29?wprov=sfla1Well Suella Braverman considers herself far right and she isn't white. And the Saudi Arabia regime certainly isn't left wing either. I'd also say Alot of the regimes in Africa by black dictators are also far right. But I am no political expert and its how I read it. Someone else may see differently and I might be wrong. The IRA/SF would try to claim to be left wing I'd say. SF in their defence do have very Liberal policies so politically they are. As for the IRA, this is where I hit a stumbling block. I believe standing up for the oppressed catholics certainly is left wing but I don't agree with violence unless absolutely necessary. And in the IRAs case, I'm not convinced the vast majority or even all of their acts were necessary. I think there may even be some other random groups out there now like Saordah - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SaoradhThey claim to be far left and despite being Nationalist they murdered a Catholic journalist only a few years ago. Left wing to me is about equality and I don't feel that this party cares about the protestants in Northern Ireland. Which makes me doubt how they can be for equality. And I guess to me groups like this would be far left extremists actually and I'd also consider the death of the journalist as far left terrorism too. Whether she was the intended target or not it doesn't matter, they took a gun out and shot it knowing they could kill. ETA I don't know enough about but I know in Spain you have the basque country and I believe Barcelona has catalans is it? And I get the impression neither are supporters of the Madrid led regime. I don't know enough on history to know where I stand there. I guess alot of my opinion would come down to how much support they have. If the vast majority of people in the basque area support independence and want it, and the Spanish are oppressing them then I could support it. It can all get quite confusing though lol How would you define it in your opinion? Because like me saying that I dont think that fella early would be left wing. There's probably examples of terrorists I claim are right wing but in your eyes they aren't and they're just extremists or clingers on and not really representing right wing views. |
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Post by musik on Nov 2, 2022 17:16:38 GMT
Sweden is mentioned in that Guardian article.
A bit surprising.
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Post by dexter97 on Nov 3, 2022 8:48:01 GMT
Interesting perspective- are black nationalists 'right wing' as 'far right' has always been affiliated to whites as far as I'm aware? Also, some nationalist groups such as ETA and some of the smaller groups in N Ireland are aligned with the far left/Marxism en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_%28separatist_group%29?wprov=sfla1Well Suella Braverman considers herself far right and she isn't white. And the Saudi Arabia regime certainly isn't left wing either. I'd also say Alot of the regimes in Africa by black dictators are also far right. But I am no political expert and its how I read it. Someone else may see differently and I might be wrong. The IRA/SF would try to claim to be left wing I'd say. SF in their defence do have very Liberal policies so politically they are. As for the IRA, this is where I hit a stumbling block. I believe standing up for the oppressed catholics certainly is left wing but I don't agree with violence unless absolutely necessary. And in the IRAs case, I'm not convinced the vast majority or even all of their acts were necessary. I think there may even be some other random groups out there now like Saordah - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SaoradhThey claim to be far left and despite being Nationalist they murdered a Catholic journalist only a few years ago. Left wing to me is about equality and I don't feel that this party cares about the protestants in Northern Ireland. Which makes me doubt how they can be for equality. And I guess to me groups like this would be far left extremists actually and I'd also consider the death of the journalist as far left terrorism too. Whether she was the intended target or not it doesn't matter, they took a gun out and shot it knowing they could kill. ETA I don't know enough about but I know in Spain you have the basque country and I believe Barcelona has catalans is it? And I get the impression neither are supporters of the Madrid led regime. I don't know enough on history to know where I stand there. I guess alot of my opinion would come down to how much support they have. If the vast majority of people in the basque area support independence and want it, and the Spanish are oppressing them then I could support it. It can all get quite confusing though lol How would you define it in your opinion? Because like me saying that I dont think that fella early would be left wing. There's probably examples of terrorists I claim are right wing but in your eyes they aren't and they're just extremists or clingers on and not really representing right wing views. I really wish we could ditch the whole ‘left vs right’ division in this discussion. It’s not helpful at the best of times, but even less so when we’re talking about what motivates people to violence. What started out as an economic spectrum has been used increasingly to describe cultural leanings. I’m a bit of a purist who regards ‘far left’ as collective ownership of the means of production and ‘far right’ as free-market fundamentalism, and I’m fine with a ‘left vs right’ debate along these lines, but I’d prefer other descriptors for social and cultural values. There’s often a correlation between one’s economic and social positions, but it’s not unheard of to be a right-wing liberal or a left-wing authoritarian. The picture becomes further-complicated by the introduction of other axes: the ‘Woke / BLM / LGBT’ movement, sitting in opposition to racism and homophobia (typically described as ‘far right’); eco-warriors vs climate deniers. And so on. Political views can be complex and nuanced, so it’s not helpful when we use ‘left / right’ labels to divide everyone into one of two camps. How would you categorise a deeply religious, socially conservative man, nationalist, a little bit homophobic, who believes in a ‘big state’ regulated economy with high taxation and strong welfare provision, and is a passionate environmentalist? Leftie or right winger? To the best of my knowledge (I’m happy to be corrected), there’s not been any recent act of terrorism that was motivated either by socialist or neoliberal economics. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 3, 2022 9:51:12 GMT
Well Suella Braverman considers herself far right and she isn't white. And the Saudi Arabia regime certainly isn't left wing either. I'd also say Alot of the regimes in Africa by black dictators are also far right. But I am no political expert and its how I read it. Someone else may see differently and I might be wrong. The IRA/SF would try to claim to be left wing I'd say. SF in their defence do have very Liberal policies so politically they are. As for the IRA, this is where I hit a stumbling block. I believe standing up for the oppressed catholics certainly is left wing but I don't agree with violence unless absolutely necessary. And in the IRAs case, I'm not convinced the vast majority or even all of their acts were necessary. I think there may even be some other random groups out there now like Saordah - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SaoradhThey claim to be far left and despite being Nationalist they murdered a Catholic journalist only a few years ago. Left wing to me is about equality and I don't feel that this party cares about the protestants in Northern Ireland. Which makes me doubt how they can be for equality. And I guess to me groups like this would be far left extremists actually and I'd also consider the death of the journalist as far left terrorism too. Whether she was the intended target or not it doesn't matter, they took a gun out and shot it knowing they could kill. ETA I don't know enough about but I know in Spain you have the basque country and I believe Barcelona has catalans is it? And I get the impression neither are supporters of the Madrid led regime. I don't know enough on history to know where I stand there. I guess alot of my opinion would come down to how much support they have. If the vast majority of people in the basque area support independence and want it, and the Spanish are oppressing them then I could support it. It can all get quite confusing though lol How would you define it in your opinion? Because like me saying that I dont think that fella early would be left wing. There's probably examples of terrorists I claim are right wing but in your eyes they aren't and they're just extremists or clingers on and not really representing right wing views. I really wish we could ditch the whole ‘left vs right’ division in this discussion. It’s not helpful at the best of times, but even less so when we’re talking about what motivates people to violence. What started out as an economic spectrum has been used increasingly to describe cultural leanings. I’m a bit of a purist who regards ‘far left’ as collective ownership of the means of production and ‘far right’ as free-market fundamentalism, and I’m fine with a ‘left vs right’ debate along these lines, but I’d prefer other descriptors for social and cultural values. There’s often a correlation between one’s economic and social positions, but it’s not unheard of to be a right-wing liberal or a left-wing authoritarian. The picture becomes further-complicated by the introduction of other axes: the ‘Woke / BLM / LGBT’ movement, sitting in opposition to racism and homophobia (typically described as ‘far right’); eco-warriors vs climate deniers. And so on. Political views can be complex and nuanced, so it’s not helpful when we use ‘left / right’ labels to divide everyone into one of two camps. How would you categorise a deeply religious, socially conservative man, nationalist, a little bit homophobic, who believes in a ‘big state’ regulated economy with high taxation and strong welfare provision, and is a passionate environmentalist? Leftie or right winger? To the best of my knowledge (I’m happy to be corrected), there’s not been any recent act of terrorism that was motivated either by socialist or neoliberal economics. So true. People are too easily pigeon holed nowadays. Some of my views are right of centre, with law and order and the legalising of drugs being the main ones. However I’m not anti-vax which according to the press I should be. I’m frequently told by some on here that I’m a Tory, because some of my personal views are right of centre when in fact I’ve voted for all 3 main parties in the past. My intention was to vote Labour in the next election however I’m not sure I should as to some it’d be hypocritical bearing in mind my views and there shouldn’t be a tick in the Labour box. |
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Post by dexter97 on Nov 3, 2022 11:19:38 GMT
I really wish we could ditch the whole ‘left vs right’ division in this discussion. It’s not helpful at the best of times, but even less so when we’re talking about what motivates people to violence. What started out as an economic spectrum has been used increasingly to describe cultural leanings. I’m a bit of a purist who regards ‘far left’ as collective ownership of the means of production and ‘far right’ as free-market fundamentalism, and I’m fine with a ‘left vs right’ debate along these lines, but I’d prefer other descriptors for social and cultural values. There’s often a correlation between one’s economic and social positions, but it’s not unheard of to be a right-wing liberal or a left-wing authoritarian. The picture becomes further-complicated by the introduction of other axes: the ‘Woke / BLM / LGBT’ movement, sitting in opposition to racism and homophobia (typically described as ‘far right’); eco-warriors vs climate deniers. And so on. Political views can be complex and nuanced, so it’s not helpful when we use ‘left / right’ labels to divide everyone into one of two camps. How would you categorise a deeply religious, socially conservative man, nationalist, a little bit homophobic, who believes in a ‘big state’ regulated economy with high taxation and strong welfare provision, and is a passionate environmentalist? Leftie or right winger? To the best of my knowledge (I’m happy to be corrected), there’s not been any recent act of terrorism that was motivated either by socialist or neoliberal economics. So true. People are too easily pigeon holed nowadays. Some of my views are right of centre, with law and order and the legalising of drugs being the main ones. However I’m not anti-vax which according to the press I should be. I’m frequently told by some on here that I’m a Tory, because some of my personal views are right of centre when in fact I’ve voted for all 3 main parties in the past. My intention was to vote Labour in the next election however I’m not sure I should as to some it’d be hypocritical bearing in mind my views and there shouldn’t be a tick in the Labour box. That’s the thing – Your views on law and order and drugs are not ‘right of centre’, they’re socially conservative as opposed to liberal / progressive. The conventional wisdom is that there’s a tendency for lefties to be liberal and right-wingers to be authoritarian, but I know a lot of people who don’t fit the stereotype. Similarly, while being a social democrat and broadly liberal in my views, my thoughts on one or two ‘hot button’ issues would probably see me flogged in the court of progressive opinion and cast out with the Gammons.  Is it the way we’re being encouraged to think of each other – divide and conquer – or is it maybe that most people are just too stupid to process anything even slightly nuanced? |
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Post by swampmongrel on Nov 3, 2022 13:40:55 GMT
The blm supporting Darlington Brooks has just been found guilty of driving his car into a Christmas parade in waukesha. He was found guilty on 76 charges including 6 of 1st degree murder. Generally, the left-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism" while the right-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism". I don't believe someone who posts anti-white stuff is someone who believes in equality, rights or progress. If anything its promoting the opposite and inequality. Respectfully intended but aren’t those descriptions of the left just happy buzzwords. ‘Freedom’ for example went out of the window with COVID lockdowns/vax mandates. Most strongly pushed by the left with deference to authority, hierarchy and order. |
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 3, 2022 13:44:11 GMT
I really wish we could ditch the whole ‘left vs right’ division in this discussion. It’s not helpful at the best of times, but even less so when we’re talking about what motivates people to violence. What started out as an economic spectrum has been used increasingly to describe cultural leanings. I’m a bit of a purist who regards ‘far left’ as collective ownership of the means of production and ‘far right’ as free-market fundamentalism, and I’m fine with a ‘left vs right’ debate along these lines, but I’d prefer other descriptors for social and cultural values. There’s often a correlation between one’s economic and social positions, but it’s not unheard of to be a right-wing liberal or a left-wing authoritarian. The picture becomes further-complicated by the introduction of other axes: the ‘Woke / BLM / LGBT’ movement, sitting in opposition to racism and homophobia (typically described as ‘far right’); eco-warriors vs climate deniers. And so on. Political views can be complex and nuanced, so it’s not helpful when we use ‘left / right’ labels to divide everyone into one of two camps. How would you categorise a deeply religious, socially conservative man, nationalist, a little bit homophobic, who believes in a ‘big state’ regulated economy with high taxation and strong welfare provision, and is a passionate environmentalist? Leftie or right winger? To the best of my knowledge (I’m happy to be corrected), there’s not been any recent act of terrorism that was motivated either by socialist or neoliberal economics. So true. People are too easily pigeon holed nowadays. Some of my views are right of centre, with law and order and the legalising of drugs being the main ones. However I’m not anti-vax which according to the press I should be. I’m frequently told by some on here that I’m a Tory, because some of my personal views are right of centre when in fact I’ve voted for all 3 main parties in the past. My intention was to vote Labour in the next election however I’m not sure I should as to some it’d be hypocritical bearing in mind my views and there shouldn’t be a tick in the Labour box. Pacifist ! |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 8, 2022 12:12:45 GMT
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 8, 2022 12:26:17 GMT
Something Stoke are severely lacking at the moment. Our right wingers are too nice. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 8, 2022 12:43:30 GMT
These are much more up to date links mate, I'd assumed that they would have already been posted.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 8, 2022 14:02:17 GMT
Occam's razor could have told you that, it was hardly likely to be the cast of Glee was it? |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 8, 2022 14:26:09 GMT
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Post by hoffgreen on Nov 8, 2022 15:02:16 GMT
Or maybe he was just tired of seeing his indigenous homeland being invaded by the third world. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 8, 2022 15:07:23 GMT
Or maybe he was just tired of seeing his indigenous homeland being invaded by the third world. Well the daft racist twat is dead now so he doesn't need to worry about it....... |
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Post by hoffgreen on Nov 8, 2022 15:50:00 GMT
Or maybe he was just tired of seeing his indigenous homeland being invaded by the third world. Well the daft racist twat is dead now so he doesn't need to worry about it....... I'm merely giving a possible reason for his actions. Do indigenous Britons not have a right to their own homeland where they feel safe and secure? |
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Post by stokefc on Nov 8, 2022 15:56:33 GMT
Well the daft racist twat is dead now so he doesn't need to worry about it....... I'm merely giving a possible reason for his actions. Do indigenous Britons not have a right to their own homeland where they feel safe and secure? Non of us are indigenous most of us and past familys were migrants if we go back far enough , i'm 2nd generation Englisman |
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Post by 4372 on Nov 8, 2022 16:04:32 GMT
"Indigenous British people" (though there is no such thing) are of course, partly responsible for making other feel unsafe or harassed here in the UK.
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Post by knype on Nov 8, 2022 16:11:29 GMT
He obviously had a mental illness? That's surely how it goes?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 8, 2022 16:12:35 GMT
Well the daft racist twat is dead now so he doesn't need to worry about it....... I'm merely giving a possible reason for his actions. Do indigenous Britons not have a right to their own homeland where they feel safe and secure? I think the Beaker folk are all dead mate, but your concern is touching....... |
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