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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 20:28:33 GMT
I don’t see why having a target man means that we will just go to hoofing it all day. I can’t see us changing style drastically in one pre-season. Neither can I - and that's my point. If you build your side around having a target man then typically your plan is to go long to use your target man to bring others into the game. It's pointless having a target man if that isn't the game plan and trying to play patient possession based football with an attacker who isn't facing forward and tuned to playing off the shoulder of the defenders won't work. However as a plan B it makes sense. If the target man can do both that's great but usually they play one way or the other. Do you build your side so to speak around a centre forward? We do need someone who can hold it up but doesn't mean will dictate how we play. |
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Post by lee1982 on Jul 13, 2022 20:33:11 GMT
I don’t see why having a target man means that we will just go to hoofing it all day. I can’t see us changing style drastically in one pre-season. Neither can I - and that's my point. If you build your side around having a target man then typically your plan is to go long to use your target man to bring others into the game. It's pointless having a target man if that isn't the game plan and trying to play patient possession based football with an attacker who isn't facing forward and tuned to playing off the shoulder of the defenders won't work. However as a plan B it makes sense. If the target man can do both that's great but usually they play one way or the other. For me this is why a big man/little man combination still works. A target man type striker isnt there to just lump balls up from the back, if we get someone in to play that role our wingbacks should be instructed to aim crosses at him. Whether this is to head at goal, flick the ball on or hold the ball up. Having a nippy striker alongside this type of player gives defenders something different to think about. A player who plays of the shoulder and is always looking to get onto through balls from midfield. The jury is still out on whether or not out midfield is capable of such passes, Baker almost certainly is. Can’t help but think a front two of Davis and Campbell would absolutely destroy this league they seem the perfect foil for one another. |
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Post by onefatcopper on Jul 13, 2022 20:33:34 GMT
I love an unpredictable player. Can turn those crappy draws into a win. Was hoping Vrancic would do that last season but didn't happen. Great news, add a bit of unpredictable flair and imagination to the predictable shit that wear the historic red and white stripes who mug us off claiming to be professional footballers. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 20:38:56 GMT
I love an unpredictable player. Can turn those crappy draws into a win. Was hoping Vrancic would do that last season but didn't happen. Great news, add a bit of unpredictable flair and imagination to the predictable shit that wear the historic red and white stripes who mug us off claiming to be professional footballers. That kind of thing, yep. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2022 20:52:27 GMT
I don’t see why having a target man means that we will just go to hoofing it all day. I can’t see us changing style drastically in one pre-season. Neither can I - and that's my point. If you build your side around having a target man then typically your plan is to go long to use your target man to bring others into the game. It's pointless having a target man if that isn't the game plan and trying to play patient possession based football with an attacker who isn't facing forward and tuned to playing off the shoulder of the defenders won't work. However as a plan B it makes sense. If the target man can do both that's great but usually they play one way or the other. Again, which teams specifically are you thinking of when you’re thinking of ‘patient, possession-based teams’ who eschew a big striker? A physical striker can be critical to opening up defences with their hold up play, dragging defenders away and opening up space for a strike partner or wide forward to exploit. Back to Celina, thought he looked an exciting player at Swansea and if he’s still that level of player he could be that creative wild card we need as competition for Powell. |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 13, 2022 21:53:05 GMT
Where do we think he fits in, not sure there seems much of a place for him in a 3 at the back given the Ipswich comments, more so with MON preferring a flat 3 in the middle.
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Post by ibby on Jul 13, 2022 22:57:51 GMT
Sign him up
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Post by hyaduck on Jul 13, 2022 23:54:53 GMT
O'neil doesn't do foreign or flair!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 23:57:59 GMT
O'neil doesn't do foreign or flair!!!!!! Well, that’s settled then. Thread over. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 14, 2022 6:03:36 GMT
Neither can I - and that's my point. If you build your side around having a target man then typically your plan is to go long to use your target man to bring others into the game. It's pointless having a target man if that isn't the game plan and trying to play patient possession based football with an attacker who isn't facing forward and tuned to playing off the shoulder of the defenders won't work. However as a plan B it makes sense. If the target man can do both that's great but usually they play one way or the other. For me this is why a big man/little man combination still works. A target man type striker isnt there to just lump balls up from the back, if we get someone in to play that role our wingbacks should be instructed to aim crosses at him. Whether this is to head at goal, flick the ball on or hold the ball up. Having a nippy striker alongside this type of player gives defenders something different to think about. A player who plays of the shoulder and is always looking to get onto through balls from midfield. The jury is still out on whether or not out midfield is capable of such passes, Baker almost certainly is. Can’t help but think a front two of Davis and Campbell would absolutely destroy this league they seem the perfect foil for one another. I agree with that but whether the ball is pumped forward from the centre backs for the target man to bring in others or used for flick on's by the wingbacks the point is having a target man would fundamentally change the way we play. We don't play that way at the point - we mainly try to play in the attackers on the ground. I'm not saying playing with a target man can't be effective it can but equally it can be rubbish - as it was when last tried to play that way with Vokes in the side. The point I'm making is that if we play with a target man we will play differently from how we played last year. The same is true if we played a classic DM - in effect we would let the opposition take the game to us and become a counter attacking side. I'm not saying there isn't a case to change Plan A just that the Plan A we currently play needs certain types of players and a target man isn't one of them. O'Neill has said there have been times when a target man would have been helpful (ie when we've failed to breakdown the opposition or we are chasing the game) so we may well get one but the noises suggest that would be a Plan B option not a permeant change of approach. If Plan B turns out to be more effective than Plan A that could lead to more permeant switch and if we get lucky enough to get a striker good enough for both systems even better. |
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Post by bloodtypered on Jul 14, 2022 7:10:14 GMT
He any good? Anyone seen him play? My mate is an ipswich fan, he says hes class, but can disappear out of the game sometimes |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2022 7:20:38 GMT
How come he only went on loan to league one last season? Genuine question.
After his spell at Swansea and undoubted talent I'm surprised a championship team didn't take him last season.
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Post by thestatusquo on Jul 14, 2022 7:34:36 GMT
Yes, I feel we need to see words such as Vibrant, Accomplished, Dynamic, Explosive and Imaginitive It should include the word “not” if we are talking about our manager |
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Post by fraybentos on Jul 14, 2022 7:44:39 GMT
He any good? Anyone seen him play? My mate is an ipswich fan, he says hes class, but can disappear out of the game sometimes Sounds like Tom Ince |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 14, 2022 9:31:40 GMT
Neither can I - and that's my point. If you build your side around having a target man then typically your plan is to go long to use your target man to bring others into the game. It's pointless having a target man if that isn't the game plan and trying to play patient possession based football with an attacker who isn't facing forward and tuned to playing off the shoulder of the defenders won't work. However as a plan B it makes sense. If the target man can do both that's great but usually they play one way or the other. Again, which teams specifically are you thinking of when you’re thinking of ‘patient, possession-based teams’ who eschew a big striker? A physical striker can be critical to opening up defences with their hold up play, dragging defenders away and opening up space for a strike partner or wide forward to exploit. Back to Celina, thought he looked an exciting player at Swansea and if he’s still that level of player he could be that creative wild card we need as competition for Powell. The best examples are Liverpool and Man City - neither play with a target man and Man City have gone as far as turning out without any recognised strikers at all. I'm not suggesting we are in that class but that is the style of football we have tried to play - taking the ball to the opposition and playing to feet. If we play with a target man - and I'm not suggesting it isn't a viable option - we will play the game differently, in fact if we didn't the target man would just be a spare part. I agree about Celina - we need a midfielder who offers something different and we simply can't go into the season banking on Powell alone being that player. |
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jul 14, 2022 9:35:44 GMT
O'neil doesn't do foreign or flair!!!!!! Who's that other English midfielder he bought in last season? Oh yes Vrancic, that was the lad. |
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Jul 14, 2022 9:50:37 GMT
Bring him in with the promise of adding something different.....
....then watch MON play him in the wrong position when we are chasing a game which we are 2-0 down with 15 to go
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 14, 2022 9:50:52 GMT
Again, which teams specifically are you thinking of when you’re thinking of ‘patient, possession-based teams’ who eschew a big striker? A physical striker can be critical to opening up defences with their hold up play, dragging defenders away and opening up space for a strike partner or wide forward to exploit. Back to Celina, thought he looked an exciting player at Swansea and if he’s still that level of player he could be that creative wild card we need as competition for Powell. The best examples are Liverpool and Man City - neither play with a target man and Man City have gone as far as turning out without any recognised strikers at all. I'm not suggesting we are in that class but that is the style of football we have tried to play - taking the ball to the opposition and playing to feet. If we play with a target man - and I'm not suggesting it isn't a viable option - we will play the game differently, in fact if we didn't the target man would just be a spare part. I agree about Celina - we need a midfielder who offers something different and we simply can't go into the season banking on Powell alone being that player. Are we classing Liverpool as 'patient and possession-based' though? They're all about the press and getting the ball forward quickly. Firmino is a clever, creative player but before they phased him out his physical presence and ability to create space for Mane/Salah was a huge part of their plan. Man City have just spent a fair wedge on a 6 ft 5 striker. It's fair to say he won't be used to win flick ons but his physicality and hold up play will definitely be strong features of his game. |
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Post by philb on Jul 14, 2022 9:53:57 GMT
My mate is an ipswich fan, he says hes class, but can disappear out of the game sometimes Sounds like Tom Ince Nah Tom Ince was gash not class. |
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Post by hyaduck on Jul 14, 2022 11:46:17 GMT
O'neil doesn't do foreign or flair!!!!!! Who's that other English midfielder he bought in last season? Oh yes Vrancic, that was the lad. I’m talking about buying from abroad, last time I looked youth, Norwich was in East Anglia not East Berlin!!!!!! |
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Post by femark on Jul 14, 2022 11:51:50 GMT
Who's that other English midfielder he bought in last season? Oh yes Vrancic, that was the lad. I’m talking about buying from abroad, last time I looked youth, Norwich was in East Anglia not East Berlin!!!!!! Celina has spend most of his career with Man City and Swansea, has also been on loan at Ipswich Absolute whopper |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2022 11:53:51 GMT
Who's that other English midfielder he bought in last season? Oh yes Vrancic, that was the lad. I’m talking about buying from abroad, last time I looked youth, Norwich was in East Anglia not East Berlin!!!!!! Why does it matter where the players are from? There have been approximately 94 transfers across all clubs so far this summer and just 11 have been foreign players from foreign clubs. Most of them were Hull and Watford! |
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Post by femark on Jul 14, 2022 11:54:07 GMT
How come he only went on loan to league one last season? Genuine question. After his spell at Swansea and undoubted talent I'm surprised a championship team didn't take him last season. There was something about a heart condition linked to contracting COVID during last summer. Maybe put a few teams off? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2022 12:03:16 GMT
How come he only went on loan to league one last season? Genuine question. After his spell at Swansea and undoubted talent I'm surprised a championship team didn't take him last season. There was something about a heart condition linked to contracting COVID during last summer. Maybe put a few teams off? Probably not wise him coming here then, not with our injury luck. |
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jul 14, 2022 12:08:10 GMT
Who's that other English midfielder he bought in last season? Oh yes Vrancic, that was the lad. I’m talking about buying from abroad, last time I looked youth, Norwich was in East Anglia not East Berlin!!!!!! Not that I give a shit but can you remind me where Maja came from?... |
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Post by somersetstokie on Jul 14, 2022 12:10:02 GMT
"There was something about a heart condition linked to contracting COVID during last summer. Maybe put a few teams off?
I presume that if he came to Stoke there would be some sort of Insurance put in place to cover possible complications like that.
Mind you Stoke historically haven't got a very good record on insurance!
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jul 14, 2022 12:14:17 GMT
Who's that other English midfielder he bought in last season? Oh yes Vrancic, that was the lad. I’m talking about buying from abroad, last time I looked youth, Norwich was in East Anglia not East Berlin!!!!!! No you were specifically on about foreign players you bullshitter. |
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Post by hyaduck on Jul 14, 2022 12:45:56 GMT
I’m talking about buying from abroad, last time I looked youth, Norwich was in East Anglia not East Berlin!!!!!! No you were specifically on about foreign players you bullshitter. From foreign clubs youth!!!!! |
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Post by dirtclod on Jul 14, 2022 12:50:41 GMT
" There was something about a heart condition linked to contracting COVID during last summer. Maybe put a few teams off?
I presume that if he came to Stoke there would be some sort of Insurance put in place to cover possible complications like that. Mind you Stoke historically haven't got a very good record on insurance! I blame Kitson. |
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Post by independent on Jul 14, 2022 12:52:31 GMT
It must be the air in the English Channel that improves them. I wonder would Mane count as a foreign player when he went to Liverpool from Southampton? Under your new definition I'm afraid we won't be ab;le to approach Pep or Klopp to replace MON as they wouldn't be coming from abroad.
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