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Post by felonious on Jun 30, 2022 12:54:26 GMT
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jul 1, 2022 7:19:02 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 1, 2022 7:49:38 GMT
I really hope Anas Sarwar becomes the politician that can hold Nicola Sturgeon’s government to account. He is absolutely spot on in his analysis; Scotland under Sturgeon is a shambles. But Sturgeon is the great deflector using Bungling Boris, the Terrible Toaries and Wicked Westminster as her shield. Up to this point none of her opponents have landed a glove on her. Well, Sarwar did well there. You can see Sturgeon is visibly uncomfortable. He needs to keep the pressure up, because his counterparts in the Tories and Lib Dems are pretty feeble.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 1, 2022 8:05:50 GMT
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Post by noustie on Jul 1, 2022 10:16:40 GMT
Obviously on the other side of it but many of an Independence persuasion have been p!ssed off the SNP haven’t spoken about it enough especially following Brexit and it is usually the Tories, swivel eyed Lib Dems, and to a lesser extent slightly, Labour who constantly bang on about it.
The issue now is the same as last time though in that the cause for Independence and how the SNP perform as a political party are purposefully conflated by both the SNP to maintain their grip on power and by the opposition to argue against something more permanent than a five year election cycle. The SNP have become bloated with careerist politicians and the great irony of the whole thing is if Scotland became independent the SNP would split into at least 2 factions whereby Labour could hoover up centre left votes and the tories would be the main party from a centre right persuasion. I’d actually take a punt on the Tories forming a government within a decade of independence.
It'll never happen but as someone politically homeless I would consider voting Labour again if they, although more favourable to devolution, spelt out what they would bring to an Independent Scotland – it seems only fair in what is supposed to be a democratic system where 45+% of the population support it including a number of their own voters. Would like the same from the Tory party but given ‘Unionist’ is in their title they’ve a right not too whereas ‘Scottish’ Labour haven’t.
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Post by noustie on Jul 1, 2022 11:09:11 GMT
I'm a fanboy but AJ's Opinion article on it is very good again: www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/6/30/sturgeon-raises-a-question-on-scottish-and-british-nationalismIs the United Kingdom a consensual union of equal nations? Or is it, crudely, a mechanism for English control over the Celtic peripheries? The end of the UK may not be any closer this week than it was last. But by seeking clarity on Scotland’s legal and constitutional standing within the Union, Nicola Sturgeon has sparked a debate about what kind of country the UK is. In other words, she has not just evoked competing accounts of what it means to be a Scottish nationalist, but what it means to be a British one, too.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 1, 2022 11:39:38 GMT
I'm a fanboy but AJ's Opinion article on it is very good again: www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/6/30/sturgeon-raises-a-question-on-scottish-and-british-nationalismIs the United Kingdom a consensual union of equal nations? Or is it, crudely, a mechanism for English control over the Celtic peripheries? The end of the UK may not be any closer this week than it was last. But by seeking clarity on Scotland’s legal and constitutional standing within the Union, Nicola Sturgeon has sparked a debate about what kind of country the UK is. In other words, she has not just evoked competing accounts of what it means to be a Scottish nationalist, but what it means to be a British one, too. Lots of good stuff in that article, but for me it’s skirting around the critical aspects of independence. Which is the practicalities rather than the philosophy. The outcome of the next independence will be based on answering those practicalities… what currency will you have being the big one left over from the last referendum to which, thanks to Brexit, can be added the equally challenging one of the nature of the border between England and Scotland. There’s plenty more. Sturgeon’s announcement this week just pushed these questions into the background. Which she is happy about, because she doesn’t know how to answer them. She’s clearly hoping that her grievance strategy (because that’s what this announcement is in part about) will persuade enough waverers to opt for independence… that “Boris is a cunt so vote Indy” will shift the yes vote past 50%. She may be right in this. I suspect she is wrong, because the relentless grievance strategy has delivered nothing in the past 6 years in terms of advancing the vote for independence. On the other hand, this buys her more time before delivering her promised Indy referendum. Time to further run down Scotland’s health, education, economy etc etc etc which I accept ain’t her strategy but is what she is doing while she carefully kicks the Indy can further down the road.
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Post by felonious on Jul 14, 2022 12:18:17 GMT
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Post by felonious on Aug 2, 2022 15:46:55 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 2, 2022 16:17:50 GMT
I fucking despair of the Tories at times. What a monumentally stupid thing to say. May, Johnson, Truss. What a fucking shower.
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Post by xchpotter on Aug 2, 2022 16:53:46 GMT
She’s not wrong, she just shouldn’t have said so publicly.
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Post by maninasuitcase on Aug 2, 2022 18:51:32 GMT
Hope they enjoy paying for their prescriptions.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 23, 2022 10:00:16 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 23, 2022 10:13:10 GMT
Oh well never mind Maybe wee Jimmy krankie can concentrate her efforts now into stopping her country turning into a banana republic
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Post by franklin on Nov 23, 2022 10:15:34 GMT
She's a dog that's for sure.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 23, 2022 10:43:31 GMT
It was a case that they were never going to win. What it was designed to do was whip up national fervour around independence which it absolutely will. Playing the long game........
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Post by noustie on Nov 23, 2022 13:26:03 GMT
I’m not foolish enough to believe this is, or ever was, a ‘Union of Equals’ but maybe I am naive enough to believe we still live in something approximately resembling a democracy. I have absolutely no idea how I would vote if there is another referendum but I believe I should have the basic democratic right to vote on the issue again given the divergent vote over Brexit and the promises made in 2014.
Imagine Brussels saying England, and by extension UK, couldn’t have a vote to leave the EU and just had to suck up whatever fundamental change Germany just voted through despite England voting for the contrary then coming up with a ham fisted attempt to appease the French – ‘Now is not the time’ would never fly in a million years!
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 23, 2022 13:31:13 GMT
It's a shame Scotland never left first time around. Brexit wouldn't have happened with all the fallout from that going on, particularly as the oil market tanked not long after.
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Post by Robo10 on Nov 23, 2022 13:56:09 GMT
Computer said no
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Post by yeokel on Nov 23, 2022 14:14:29 GMT
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Post by thewonderstuff on Nov 23, 2022 14:16:21 GMT
As Prestwich says, there was no way they were going to win the Supreme Court case today but that wasn’t the point, it sets up the two attack lines we’ll hear quite a lot of in the coming months and Blackford actually delivered them quite well.
What right does a PM, with zero mandate, have to deny Scottish democracy? The idea the UK is a voluntary union of nations is laughable.
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Post by phileetin on Nov 23, 2022 14:23:24 GMT
i wouldn't mind if they first came up with proposals for border control , currency , national debt , defence and health
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Post by xchpotter on Nov 23, 2022 14:28:56 GMT
Really torn on this one. On the one hand how great would it be to no longer have the whining Jocks going on about it (but this now gives them licence to be even bigger victims) whereas on the other hand if they did get independence I just know my taxes will still end up going over the border to them whilst they continue to sneer and have a go at anything English.
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Post by hoffgreen on Nov 23, 2022 16:17:52 GMT
i wouldn't mind if they first came up with proposals for border control , currency , national debt , defence and health
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Post by noustie on Nov 23, 2022 16:29:46 GMT
Pound jumped against the dollar and euro today - imagine how much it might have bounced by if they hadn't announced being tied to the subsidy junkies jocks until you decide to get shot at the same time! 🤔
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 23, 2022 18:52:06 GMT
As Prestwich says, there was no way they were going to win the Supreme Court case today but that wasn’t the point, it sets up the two attack lines we’ll hear quite a lot of in the coming months and Blackford actually delivered them quite well. What right does a PM, with zero mandate, have to deny Scottish democracy? The idea the UK is a voluntary union of nations is laughable. What's stopping them holding one anyway? It's not illegal, it just won't have UK govt approval. However, this ruling may just have put ten percent onto the yes vote. If so, what does the UK govt do if an unofficial referendum comes back 60/40 in favour of yes? Do they ignore the will of the people?! Good luck with that ending up in anything other than generating yet more support for independence! Don't think Sturgeon will be that upset by this ruling.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 23, 2022 19:19:22 GMT
As Prestwich says, there was no way they were going to win the Supreme Court case today but that wasn’t the point, it sets up the two attack lines we’ll hear quite a lot of in the coming months and Blackford actually delivered them quite well. What right does a PM, with zero mandate, have to deny Scottish democracy? The idea the UK is a voluntary union of nations is laughable. What's stopping them holding one anyway? It's not illegal, it just won't have UK govt approval. However, this ruling may just have put ten percent onto the yes vote. If so, what does the UK govt do if an unofficial referendum comes back 60/40 in favour of yes? Do they ignore the will of the people?! Good luck with that ending up in anything other than generating yet more support for independence! Don't think Sturgeon will be that upset by this ruling. It'll make the same amount of difference that the unofficial Catalan referendum did, zero. The EU couldn't give a toss about that outcome, I doubt this would even register on their radar
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Post by wannabee on Nov 23, 2022 19:50:45 GMT
I’m not foolish enough to believe this is, or ever was, a ‘Union of Equals’ but maybe I am naive enough to believe we still live in something approximately resembling a democracy. I have absolutely no idea how I would vote if there is another referendum but I believe I should have the basic democratic right to vote on the issue again given the divergent vote over Brexit and the promises made in 2014. Imagine Brussels saying England, and by extension UK, couldn’t have a vote to leave the EU and just had to suck up whatever fundamental change Germany just voted through despite England voting for the contrary then coming up with a ham fisted attempt to appease the French – ‘Now is not the time’ would never fly in a million years! Succinctly put and your post from July which I hadn't seen before has aged well I consider today's ruling a partial victory for SNP/Independence for 2 reasons 1) The fact that Supreme Court, against the wishes of UK Government, considered that the question was legitimate and 2) There can be no further pretence that it's a Voluntary Union of Equals. furthermore the UK Government unwillingness to define the conditions which would make a Referendum possible I don't wish to divert the conversation but on night of Brexit when Remain looked like winning a small majority from Exit Polls Farage said he would continue to continue to campaign for Brexit, I wouldn't have expected anything less. On matters of Sovereignty and Democracy only the people can decide not politicians
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Post by knype on Nov 23, 2022 20:07:10 GMT
Let em fuck off and have their independence.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 23, 2022 20:08:59 GMT
What's stopping them holding one anyway? It's not illegal, it just won't have UK govt approval. However, this ruling may just have put ten percent onto the yes vote. If so, what does the UK govt do if an unofficial referendum comes back 60/40 in favour of yes? Do they ignore the will of the people?! Good luck with that ending up in anything other than generating yet more support for independence! Don't think Sturgeon will be that upset by this ruling. It'll make the same amount of difference that the unofficial Catalan referendum did, zero. The EU couldn't give a toss about that outcome, I doubt this would even register on their radar Not that anyone mentioned the EU but since you did, one big difference is that Spain is in the EU, the UK isn't. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the event of an unofficial referendum, the EU was quite keen to express support for an independent Scotland joining the EU. No responsibility on the EU doing the UK any favours anymore.
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