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Post by felonious on Jun 14, 2022 6:00:51 GMT
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jun 14, 2022 6:31:34 GMT
Makes sense from their point of view to try and push it through while Johnson is still in office. If ever there's ever a PM that will turn people towards independence then it's him.
The next interesting part will be what the SNP do when the government inevitably refuse them another referendum.
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 14, 2022 7:10:57 GMT
It’s going to be sunnier too.
And Scotland will qualify for the World Cup. Forever. It will be in the constitution.
And everyone will be happy… it will be a legal requirement.
We’ve even got a new anthem to replace the fascist dirge GSTQ…
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 14, 2022 8:13:03 GMT
If this government and Brexit don't push the independence vote significantly over the 50% mark, what will?
Can't see it happening.
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Post by Robo10 on Jun 14, 2022 9:15:14 GMT
Nicola Sturgeon (2022) "This UK Government does not respect democracy"
Also Nicola Sturgeon (2022) ...calls for a second Independence vote ignoring the will of 55% of the Scottish population in 2014 who voted to remain in the UK
I understand they probably think there will never be a better chance with this shitshow in charge of the UK Govt, but I would think there are better things to spend the money on, including their crumbling health service and tackling poverty in their inner cities
Ultimately, the Scots need to support a Labour challenge to get the fuckers out if we want a united, prosperous UK.
She is taking them nowhere, and Bozo taking us to oblivion.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 14, 2022 9:20:12 GMT
I can’t wait for them to publish there proposals on there currency
Should be interesting trying to convince the most ardent viet jock to accept the euro
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Post by noustie on Jun 14, 2022 11:40:05 GMT
On the other side of the coin this is the usual carrot being dangled to those of my leanings. This will progress at a snails pace; stall to the point a ref can't be held this window before the next GE and; campaign that another mandate is all we need - rinse, spin, repeat.
Careerist politicians protecting the trough for me without the conviction nor competence and rapidly descending into New Labour 'monkey with rosette' territory.
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Post by felonious on Jun 15, 2022 5:48:16 GMT
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Post by thevoid on Jun 15, 2022 6:04:00 GMT
Yes has taken a slight hit then. Better start sawing more doors, Krank |
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Post by Robo10 on Jun 15, 2022 8:20:01 GMT
Depends on the poll though and the question being asked
In the 'Poll of Polls' that a lot of the online analysts publish, YES (to be independent) varies from 42-48% in the main, and NO (to stay in the Union) is slightly stronger at 45-50%, with around 8-10% generally undecided (or not arsed)
I read that less than 10% wanted it in the 80s, that rose into the 30% band in the 90s, to where we are today so I suspect something will have to change politically to turn that ship around
However, having had their (Salmond/Sturgeon) 'Once in a generation' referendum in 2014, I dont think its been long enough to ask again - should be at least 2032 (so 18 years from the last one, a generation)
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Post by thevoid on Jun 15, 2022 9:27:54 GMT
Depends on the poll though and the question being asked In the 'Poll of Polls' that a lot of the online analysts publish, YES (to be independent) varies from 42-48% in the main, and NO (to stay in the Union) is slightly stronger at 45-50%, with around 8-10% generally undecided (or not arsed) I read that less than 10% wanted it in the 80s, that rose into the 30% band in the 90s, to where we are today so I suspect something will have to change politically to turn that ship around However, having had their (Salmond/Sturgeon) 'Once in a generation' referendum in 2014, I dont think its been long enough to ask again - should be at least 2032 (so 18 years from the last one, a generation) They should do it like the World Series, best of seven |
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Post by Robo10 on Jun 15, 2022 9:57:02 GMT
Or keep going until the party in power gets the result it wants.....
We should do the same with Brexit on that basis :-)
Or each time a Tory government is elected (an 'are you REALLY sure' type poll)
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Post by lordb on Jun 15, 2022 10:18:22 GMT
Neverendum
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 15, 2022 11:04:59 GMT
We have a date - well, a month and a year; October 2023. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. One thing is for certain, there is nothing like the wide acceptance for a referendum that there was for the 2014 one. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 16, 2022 15:53:45 GMT
If he's still in power, and taking into account his approach so far to things he doesn't want to face up to, I suspect Bozo's response to any result which comes out in favour of independence next year will simply be to deny its legitimacy, ignore it and plough on regardless.
Of course, any result which returns a No to independence will be greeted warmly!
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Post by felonious on Jun 28, 2022 6:41:09 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 28, 2022 6:52:39 GMT
They should go for it.
UDI for Scotland.
I will relocate there the following day.
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Post by noustie on Jun 28, 2022 7:32:13 GMT
They should go for it. UDI for Scotland. I will relocate there the following day. God save the Queen - Rule Britania 😉 |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jun 28, 2022 7:47:02 GMT
I wonder what Scottish people will think if she ever lays out how she will deal with:
Higher taxes when the Barnet Formula no longer applies.
Job losses when main Defence bases of Faslane, Rosyth and Lossiemouth close.
Splitting families living either side of the border
Forming their own currency without the support of BoE.
Trade with the rest of U.K. bearing in mind the difficulties with NI post Brexit
Defence policy
Policing
Health Service
Education particularly higher which is free at present.
England/Scotland border control
Probably many more issues that she will not talk about because it will likely scare the pants off the population. She will concentrate on ramming Indyref2 down the throats of those who want independence that will make a healthier, wealthier, happier and fairer Scotland simply because she says so.
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Post by misterj on Jun 28, 2022 7:56:26 GMT
Don’t think Hadrian’s Wall will be reconstructed anytime soon
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Post by thewonderstuff on Jun 28, 2022 9:12:44 GMT
I wonder what Scottish people will think if she ever lays out how she will deal with: Higher taxes when the Barnet Formula no longer applies. Job losses when main Defence bases of Faslane, Rosyth and Lossiemouth close. Splitting families living either side of the border Forming their own currency without the support of BoE. Trade with the rest of U.K. bearing in mind the difficulties with NI post Brexit Defence policy Policing Health Service Education particularly higher which is free at present. England/Scotland border control Probably many more issues that she will not talk about because it will likely scare the pants off the population. She will concentrate on ramming Indyref2 down the throats of those who want independence that will make a healthier, wealthier, happier and fairer Scotland simply because she says so. Were you against Brexit for similar reasons?  |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jun 28, 2022 9:17:27 GMT
I wonder what Scottish people will think if she ever lays out how she will deal with: Higher taxes when the Barnet Formula no longer applies. Job losses when main Defence bases of Faslane, Rosyth and Lossiemouth close. Splitting families living either side of the border Forming their own currency without the support of BoE. Trade with the rest of U.K. bearing in mind the difficulties with NI post Brexit Defence policy Policing Health Service Education particularly higher which is free at present. England/Scotland border control Probably many more issues that she will not talk about because it will likely scare the pants off the population. She will concentrate on ramming Indyref2 down the throats of those who want independence that will make a healthier, wealthier, happier and fairer Scotland simply because she says so. If it's anything like the 2014 referendum, they will produce a 600-page document that outlines their plans for deadling with these issues. Whether anyone believes in those solutions is to be seen, but they do at least lay out what they plan to do. The Scottish Government section of this page has four links to documents from the 2014 referendum: www.parliament.uk/business/publications/research/scotland-the-referendum-and-independence/independence/ |
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Post by Northy on Jun 28, 2022 9:19:56 GMT
Hurry up and have it and shut the annoying bint up  |
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Post by noustie on Jun 28, 2022 11:42:10 GMT
It's a pretenderendum so no point boring the tits off everyone with what consumed my life for 2 years a decade ago. Thought this was interesting around the history of Barnett Formula though: www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/scotland-independence-vote/scottish-referendum-barnett-formula-a-folly-says-its-creator-30604379.htmlLord Joel Barnett said he made up the formula when he was in the Treasury during the Callaghan Labour Government 35 years ago to stop ministers constantly pestering him for more money.
He said: "There was already a long-established convention for funding public spending in Scotland, based on the relative populations of England and Scotland almost a century before.
"I merely adjusted the figures to take account of changes in the relative populations of the four home nations and drew up the spending figures accordingly – which actually resulted in a 2% reduction in funding for Scotland over the settlement they would have been due under the previous, outdated population statistics."
He said his move was a stopgap measure. "Little did I think when I made a back of the envelope calculation about funding for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland more than 35 years ago that the so-called 'Barnett formula' would take on a life of its own and go on to become the unwritten – and unjust – convention by which Government spending would be allocated for decades ahead."
He said the method was now obsolete and should be replaced.
"I never thought the arrangement – there was and is no proper 'formula' that works out how much money is needed and where it should be spent – would last any longer than a year or two, certainly not after the next general election. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 28, 2022 12:49:57 GMT
I wonder what Scottish people will think if she ever lays out how she will deal with: Higher taxes when the Barnet Formula no longer applies. Job losses when main Defence bases of Faslane, Rosyth and Lossiemouth close. Splitting families living either side of the border Forming their own currency without the support of BoE. Trade with the rest of U.K. bearing in mind the difficulties with NI post Brexit Defence policy Policing Health Service Education particularly higher which is free at present. England/Scotland border control Probably many more issues that she will not talk about because it will likely scare the pants off the population. She will concentrate on ramming Indyref2 down the throats of those who want independence that will make a healthier, wealthier, happier and fairer Scotland simply because she says so. They're fair points and they do need addressing, but you could equally ask the natives of Czechia, Slovakia and various other newly independent countries how they dealt with similarly pertinent issues for their countries at the time? They appear to manage quite happily today. Ex-Yugoslavia is not a good example because it fractured into warfare, but no-one is thinking anything like that might happen in the UK (at least not between England and Scotland, NI might be a different story) so the dissolution of Czechoslovakia is a better comparison. And even the former Yugoslav states are now modern, mostly successful independent countries. I doubt whether the Scots have anything more to fear from independence that Brexit hasn't already done to them through being a member of the UK anyway. It's a case of whether they want another dose of it for the emotional 'reward' of independence. I can't see it happening though. If Brexit and a Boris Johnson led Tory govt doesn't get the Yes vote well over 50%, I'm not sure what would. |
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jun 28, 2022 16:39:08 GMT
I don't know why anyone would be surprised.
At the last referendum Scottish people were told that if they voted independence they would not be able to get into the EU, there would be barriers to trade etc.
In my work, the boss came down and implored everyone to vote to remain in the union, because of the problems it would cause to be outside the EU.
Soon after the the English vote for to leave EU anyway, installing barriers to trade with our main trading partner. 62 % of scots voted to remain in the EU
I've no doubt Scotland will vote for independence after 12 years of disastrous Tory rule. I don't know anyone here now who doesn't constantly question 'why do the English vote tory'. Although Partick probably knows people who think differently.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 28, 2022 17:41:28 GMT
Anyone who thinks the EU will be in a rush to accept Scotland
Is living in cloud cuckoo land
I would imagine both Belgium and Spain would object
As they both have strong separatist factions
And wouldn’t want them to think they could easily join the eu after a vote
Before wee jimmy can achieve a yes vote she has a lot of explaining to do with taxation ,money , trade to name but three
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Post by noustie on Jun 28, 2022 17:50:53 GMT
We've already been tipped the wink we'd get straight back in purely for the bantz
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jun 28, 2022 17:53:11 GMT
Good luck to 'em, I hope they vote for it & get it.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 28, 2022 17:57:24 GMT
I walked past Bargain Booze earlier and 4 Scottish workman walked out with 4 bottles of Buckfast each, they seemed delighted.
Anyway back to “Indyref2”…..
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