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Post by marylandstoke on Jun 28, 2022 17:57:42 GMT
Depends on the poll though and the question being asked In the 'Poll of Polls' that a lot of the online analysts publish, YES (to be independent) varies from 42-48% in the main, and NO (to stay in the Union) is slightly stronger at 45-50%, with around 8-10% generally undecided (or not arsed) I read that less than 10% wanted it in the 80s, that rose into the 30% band in the 90s, to where we are today so I suspect something will have to change politically to turn that ship around However, having had their (Salmond/Sturgeon) 'Once in a generation' referendum in 2014, I dont think its been long enough to ask again - should be at least 2032 (so 18 years from the last one, a generation) They should do it like the World Series, best of seven Laugh out loud funny. Glad I’d put my Stella down.
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Post by OldStokie on Jun 28, 2022 18:13:26 GMT
I would have thought Boris would jump at the chance for Scottish independence. The SNP are anti-Tory and always vote against them in matters that are not just England related. The Tories could rule for decades without those 45 SNP votes going against them, and let's not forget that that Sinn Fein don't vote in the Westminster parliament so the Tories can count on the DUP vote going with them too. England will then become an Eton educated rump of right-wingers and the only opposition will be Taffs Labour and English Labour.
OS.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jun 28, 2022 18:18:52 GMT
I would have thought Boris would jump at the chance for Scottish independence. The SNP are anti-Tory and always vote against them in matters that are not just England related. The Tories could rule for decades without those 45 SNP votes going against them, and let's not forget that that Sinn Fein don't vote in the Westminster parliament so the Tories can count on the DUP vote going with them too. England will then become an Eton educated rump of right-wingers and the only opposition will be Taffs Labour and English Labour. OS. Can't you remember what it was like before the union?
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Post by werrington on Jun 28, 2022 18:22:37 GMT
If there is a referendum and Scotland again votes NO then the SNP in reality is a total non entity and a party that’s no longer a viable option for the Scottish people
She’s on dangerous ground
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Post by xchpotter on Jun 28, 2022 19:55:54 GMT
If there is a referendum and Scotland again votes NO then the SNP in reality is a total non entity and a party that’s no longer a viable option for the Scottish people She’s on dangerous ground Indeed, you do feel it’s her shit or bust moment. Personally I won’t shed a tear if I never hear from the venomous little witch ever again.
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Post by felonious on Jun 28, 2022 19:59:13 GMT
I would have thought Boris would jump at the chance for Scottish independence. The SNP are anti-Tory and always vote against them in matters that are not just England related. The Tories could rule for decades without those 45 SNP votes going against them, and let's not forget that that Sinn Fein don't vote in the Westminster parliament so the Tories can count on the DUP vote going with them too. England will then become an Eton educated rump of right-wingers and the only opposition will be Taffs Labour and English Labour. OS. Can't you remember what it was like before the union? Nice to see you giving Badge a rest
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Post by felonious on Jun 28, 2022 20:00:33 GMT
If there is a referendum and Scotland again votes NO then the SNP in reality is a total non entity and a party that’s no longer a viable option for the Scottish people She’s on dangerous ground Not at all like the EU they'll just keep voting until you get the right result.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 28, 2022 20:03:26 GMT
If there is a referendum and Scotland again votes NO then the SNP in reality is a total non entity and a party that’s no longer a viable option for the Scottish people She’s on dangerous ground It’s a risk she’s willing to take if she wins she’ll be a legend in her own lunchtime If she loses it’s the next snp leader who will have to clear up the mess
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Post by werrington on Jun 28, 2022 20:16:56 GMT
If there is a referendum and Scotland again votes NO then the SNP in reality is a total non entity and a party that’s no longer a viable option for the Scottish people She’s on dangerous ground It’s a risk she’s willing to take if she wins she’ll be a legend in her own lunchtime If she loses it’s the next snp leader who will have to clear up the mess There won’t be a SNP though as everything they stand for and their soul reason for existence is for independence so once that’s a non starter they’re history
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jun 29, 2022 6:21:09 GMT
If there is a referendum and Scotland again votes NO then the SNP in reality is a total non entity and a party that’s no longer a viable option for the Scottish people She’s on dangerous ground That's a possibility, but not a guarantee Uniquely for a single-issue party, they have had to become a party of governance since taking power in Holyrood. Without their single-issue to rally around things will surely be more difficult, but I wouldn't rule them out being able to survive as a left-wing alternantive to Labour or the Conervatives. What it will mean of course is that they will be judged solely on their ability to run a competent government, without the guaranteed votes of independence diehards. An interesting side note would be who would fill the void should the SNP lose power. Would Scotland return a few more seats for Labour? Would the Greens have an outside chance of picking up a few seats? Would there be more Tory MPs than pandas in Scotland? The fallout would be very interesting, that's for sure.
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Post by werrington on Jun 29, 2022 6:38:58 GMT
If there is a referendum and Scotland again votes NO then the SNP in reality is a total non entity and a party that’s no longer a viable option for the Scottish people She’s on dangerous ground That's a possibility, but not a guarantee Uniquely for a single-issue party, they have had to become a party of governance since taking power in Holyrood. Without their single-issue to rally around things will surely be more difficult, but I wouldn't rule them out being able to survive as a left-wing alternantive to Labour or the Conervatives. What it will mean of course is that they will be judged solely on their ability to run a competent government, without the guaranteed votes of independence diehards. An interesting side note would be who would fill the void should the SNP lose power. Would Scotland return a few more seats for Labour? Would the Greens have an outside chance of picking up a few seats? Would there be more Tory MPs than pandas in Scotland? The fallout would be very interesting, that's for sure. Their whole agenda is the independence of Scotland so if they were to fall short ( if indeed a vote is allowed ) for a second time the whole party will need a change of name, image and personnel with new members seeking a different path Hers and their whole political careers are on the line
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Post by xchpotter on Jun 29, 2022 6:58:34 GMT
That's a possibility, but not a guarantee Uniquely for a single-issue party, they have had to become a party of governance since taking power in Holyrood. Without their single-issue to rally around things will surely be more difficult, but I wouldn't rule them out being able to survive as a left-wing alternantive to Labour or the Conervatives. What it will mean of course is that they will be judged solely on their ability to run a competent government, without the guaranteed votes of independence diehards. An interesting side note would be who would fill the void should the SNP lose power. Would Scotland return a few more seats for Labour? Would the Greens have an outside chance of picking up a few seats? Would there be more Tory MPs than pandas in Scotland? The fallout would be very interesting, that's for sure. Their whole agenda is the independence of Scotland so if they were to fall short ( if indeed a vote is allowed ) for a second time the whole party will need a change of name, image and personnel with new members seeking a different path Hers and their whole political careers are on the line I reckon she will have a contingency plan for her career already lined up if she loses. Something probably in the EU where she can help to extract revenge in some way on the UK.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jun 29, 2022 7:33:33 GMT
That's a possibility, but not a guarantee Uniquely for a single-issue party, they have had to become a party of governance since taking power in Holyrood. Without their single-issue to rally around things will surely be more difficult, but I wouldn't rule them out being able to survive as a left-wing alternantive to Labour or the Conervatives. What it will mean of course is that they will be judged solely on their ability to run a competent government, without the guaranteed votes of independence diehards. An interesting side note would be who would fill the void should the SNP lose power. Would Scotland return a few more seats for Labour? Would the Greens have an outside chance of picking up a few seats? Would there be more Tory MPs than pandas in Scotland? The fallout would be very interesting, that's for sure. Their whole agenda is the independence of Scotland so if they were to fall short ( if indeed a vote is allowed ) for a second time the whole party will need a change of name, image and personnel with new members seeking a different path Hers and their whole political careers are on the line True. I guess what I meant is that I wouldn't put it past them successfully changing image etc and maintaining some sort of power (although almost certainly less power than they currently have).
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 29, 2022 8:14:40 GMT
If there is a referendum and Scotland again votes NO then the SNP in reality is a total non entity and a party that’s no longer a viable option for the Scottish people She’s on dangerous ground That's a possibility, but not a guarantee Uniquely for a single-issue party, they have had to become a party of governance since taking power in Holyrood. Without their single-issue to rally around things will surely be more difficult, but I wouldn't rule them out being able to survive as a left-wing alternantive to Labour or the Conervatives. What it will mean of course is that they will be judged solely on their ability to run a competent government, without the guaranteed votes of independence diehards. An interesting side note would be who would fill the void should the SNP lose power. Would Scotland return a few more seats for Labour? Would the Greens have an outside chance of picking up a few seats? Would there be more Tory MPs than pandas in Scotland? The fallout would be very interesting, that's for sure. I suppose the Labour Party could only dream of having more Scottish MPs than pandas
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jun 29, 2022 9:15:54 GMT
That's a possibility, but not a guarantee Uniquely for a single-issue party, they have had to become a party of governance since taking power in Holyrood. Without their single-issue to rally around things will surely be more difficult, but I wouldn't rule them out being able to survive as a left-wing alternantive to Labour or the Conervatives. What it will mean of course is that they will be judged solely on their ability to run a competent government, without the guaranteed votes of independence diehards. An interesting side note would be who would fill the void should the SNP lose power. Would Scotland return a few more seats for Labour? Would the Greens have an outside chance of picking up a few seats? Would there be more Tory MPs than pandas in Scotland? The fallout would be very interesting, that's for sure. I suppose the Labour Party could only dream of having more Scottish MPs than pandas Lighten up. It was a re-hash of an old joke.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 29, 2022 9:25:31 GMT
I suppose the Labour Party could only dream of having more Scottish MPs than pandas Lighten up. It was a re-hash of an old joke. I’m perfectly lightened I just find it hard to believe that labour voters in Scotland are harder to find than Tory’s in Stoke
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Post by stokief on Jun 29, 2022 9:38:19 GMT
No idea what currency would be used. Wants to be Independent yet ruled by the EU . Thinks the EU will be interested and yet won't be prepared to have Trident.. the one thing that probably does interest the EU Thinks that the country would've been able to look after itself better during the Pandemic if it had been finacially independent, yeah , right doesn't grasp that boarders would be required meaning all that cr*p with the transportation of goods when 60% of the goods come over the boarder. She really seems to believe in some ancient way that all Scots hate the English and vice versa when many of us are mixed heritage or have friends from our neighbouring countries. This divisive bullsh!t should be totally out of date and yet just like so many other things at the moment rears its head to try and conquer and divide and weaken important alliances. Trouble is, without someone like Ruth Davidson there's no substantial or intelligent opposition to explain the realities of this 'Braveheart crusade . You'd really think that SNP would have more to bother about in such a troubled world than fracturing the UK and you would hope that if it came to a referendum people would have the sense to see that now is really NOT the time. All of the eggs are in one basket on this one. They dont seem to care about repairing Scotland following the Covid Crisis and all that lovely power which they have all voted to keep big bits of. Question is, how much do any of us trust what we're told or feel that we can trust those that have the governmental power. A big part of Scotland couldn't be Ar$ed to complete the census, they're still chasing after them now!
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jun 29, 2022 9:39:52 GMT
No idea what currency would be used. Wants to be Independent yet ruled by the EU . Thinks the EU will be interested and yet won't be prepared to have Trident.. the one thing that probably does interest the EU Thinks that the country would've been able to look after itself better during the Pandemic if it had been finacially independent, yeah , right doesn't grasp that boarders would be required meaning all that cr*p with the transportation of goods when 60% of the goods come over the boarder. She really seems to believe in some ancient way that all Scots hate the English and vice versa when many of us are mixed heritage or have friends from our neighbouring countries. This divisive bullsh!t should be totally out of date and yet just like so many other things at the moment rears its head to try and conquer and divide and weaken important alliances. Trouble is, without someone like Ruth Davidson there's no substantial or intelligent opposition to explain the realities of this 'Braveheart crusade . You'd really think that SNP would have more to bother about in such a troubled world than fracturing the UK and you would hope that if it came to a referendum people would have the sense to see that now is really NOT the time. All of the eggs are in one basket on this one. They dont seem to care about repairing Scotland following the Covid Crisis and all that lovely power which they have all voted to keep big bits of. Question is, how much do any of us trust what we're told or feel that we can trust those that have the governmental power. A big part of Scotland couldn't be Ar$ed to complete the census, they're still chasing after them now! So they can rely on your vote yeah?
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Post by stokief on Jun 29, 2022 9:43:26 GMT
No idea what currency would be used. Wants to be Independent yet ruled by the EU . Thinks the EU will be interested and yet won't be prepared to have Trident.. the one thing that probably does interest the EU Thinks that the country would've been able to look after itself better during the Pandemic if it had been finacially independent, yeah , right doesn't grasp that boarders would be required meaning all that cr*p with the transportation of goods when 60% of the goods come over the boarder. She really seems to believe in some ancient way that all Scots hate the English and vice versa when many of us are mixed heritage or have friends from our neighbouring countries. This divisive bullsh!t should be totally out of date and yet just like so many other things at the moment rears its head to try and conquer and divide and weaken important alliances. Trouble is, without someone like Ruth Davidson there's no substantial or intelligent opposition to explain the realities of this 'Braveheart crusade . You'd really think that SNP would have more to bother about in such a troubled world than fracturing the UK and you would hope that if it came to a referendum people would have the sense to see that now is really NOT the time. All of the eggs are in one basket on this one. They dont seem to care about repairing Scotland following the Covid Crisis and all that lovely power which they have all voted to keep big bits of. Question is, how much do any of us trust what we're told or feel that we can trust those that have the governmental power. A big part of Scotland couldn't be Ar$ed to complete the census, they're still chasing after them now! So they can rely on your vote yeah? I've not made my mind up yet!
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 29, 2022 10:09:58 GMT
That's a possibility, but not a guarantee Uniquely for a single-issue party, they have had to become a party of governance since taking power in Holyrood. Without their single-issue to rally around things will surely be more difficult, but I wouldn't rule them out being able to survive as a left-wing alternantive to Labour or the Conervatives. What it will mean of course is that they will be judged solely on their ability to run a competent government, without the guaranteed votes of independence diehards. An interesting side note would be who would fill the void should the SNP lose power. Would Scotland return a few more seats for Labour? Would the Greens have an outside chance of picking up a few seats? Would there be more Tory MPs than pandas in Scotland? The fallout would be very interesting, that's for sure. Their whole agenda is the independence of Scotland so if they were to fall short ( if indeed a vote is allowed ) for a second time the whole party will need a change of name, image and personnel with new members seeking a different path Hers and their whole political careers are on the line Ukip managed it brilliantly after brexit. They are now known as the Conservatives.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 29, 2022 10:28:11 GMT
I believe in the union but if they vote to leave so be it.
I believe like said above both the SNP and Plaid should be marketed as nationalistic parties campaigning for what’s best for their respective countries and trying to rule respective devolved parliaments without continuing to shout for independence
However what good they could do with the money the billions it costs to run these devolved parliaments?
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Post by lordb on Jun 29, 2022 11:08:55 GMT
I believe in the union but if they vote to leave so be it. I believe like said above both the SNP and Plaid should be marketed as nationalistic parties campaigning for what’s best for their respective countries and trying to rule respective devolved parliaments without continuing to shout for independence However what good they could do with the money the billions it costs to run these devolved parliaments? bllions?
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Post by salopstick on Jun 29, 2022 11:44:46 GMT
I believe in the union but if they vote to leave so be it. I believe like said above both the SNP and Plaid should be marketed as nationalistic parties campaigning for what’s best for their respective countries and trying to rule respective devolved parliaments without continuing to shout for independence However what good they could do with the money the billions it costs to run these devolved parliaments? bllions? Since devolution more than likely The Scottish Parliament building cost £414million. The total operating cost budget for the Scottish Government in 2022-23 is £670.0 million The Welsh parliament building cost £70milion but costs around £70million annually to run
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Post by Northy on Jun 29, 2022 12:30:48 GMT
How much of the national debt would they inherit if they left, presumably it would be based on what % they get out of the coffers now, which is raised with the Barnett formula
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Post by noustie on Jun 29, 2022 12:58:07 GMT
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Post by crowey on Jun 29, 2022 13:05:51 GMT
…. these are unfortunately some of the problems you get when your country is run by fish
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 30, 2022 6:42:12 GMT
I don't know why anyone would be surprised. At the last referendum Scottish people were told that if they voted independence they would not be able to get into the EU, there would be barriers to trade etc. In my work, the boss came down and implored everyone to vote to remain in the union, because of the problems it would cause to be outside the EU. Soon after the the English vote for to leave EU anyway, installing barriers to trade with our main trading partner. 62 % of scots voted to remain in the EU I've no doubt Scotland will vote for independence after 12 years of disastrous Tory rule. I don't know anyone here now who doesn't constantly question 'why do the English vote tory'. Although Partick probably knows people who think differently. It’s not a question I’ve ever heard discussed. Party politics in Scotland has died, or may be better to say gone into hibernation, replaced with the sole topic of Independence which has featured an unlikely alliance of Tories and SNP who have both benefited from this bipolar question. Labour, of course, being the biggest losers.Something that is much to the detriment of Scotland - not so much Labour’s travails but the focus on the constitution which takes precedence over competence in Government. As to the question of independence, the folk I know are pretty much split 50/50 which reflects Scottish opinion as a whole. As noted earlier in that Wings over Scotland article, despite Brexit, Boris and screeds of Bullshit, the dial on support for independence hasn’t shifted one point since 2016. So, while I doubt you’ve no doubt Scotland will vote for independence, I think the odds are on remaining in the UK if there were to be a vote next year. Pretty narrow odds mind. But that won’t happen - a referendum next year I mean. And Sturgeon ain’t expecting it either. She has always, in my thinking, been playing a longer game. Albeit not playing it particularly well. “Boris is a cunt” may play well to folk who are already on her side, but it probably won’t influence those she needs to get inside. Folk that are concerned about stuff like will they be better or worse off if Scotland were independent which is a tough question to answer convincingly if, for example, you don’t know what your currency will be. Anyway, what should the UK Government do… I think they need to get on the front foot and agree with the Scottish Government the conditions that would allow an independence referendum to take place. Something along the lines of the Scottish Parliament has the power to introduce legislation once every 25 years if it so chooses. That’s the “once in a generation “ sound bite both sides were spouting in 2014. Why not codify that into law? Scotland needs to break out of the constitutional obsession that has overtaken real politics in Holyrood for the best part of a decade.
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Post by noustie on Jun 30, 2022 8:21:00 GMT
This is a snapshot of how mental things have gotten within Scottish Government: wingsoverscotland.com/the-brave-new-world/So, to recap: the Scottish Government is using your money to indoctrinate anyone who works for it into the belief that biological sex – the thing which is responsible for every single human on Earth being alive – is a falsehood created by the medical establishment to oppressively reinforce white supremacy and unfairly exclude men from women’s sportsBonus points for anyone who can guess before reading who isn't defined under 'W'.
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Post by Northy on Jun 30, 2022 8:29:40 GMT
This is a snapshot of how mental things have gotten within Scottish Government: wingsoverscotland.com/the-brave-new-world/So, to recap: the Scottish Government is using your money to indoctrinate anyone who works for it into the belief that biological sex – the thing which is responsible for every single human on Earth being alive – is a falsehood created by the medical establishment to oppressively reinforce white supremacy and unfairly exclude men from women’s sportsBonus points for anyone who can guess before reading who isn't defined under 'W'. So much money wasted on a tiny amount of the population, I could understand if it were something like PTSD where people have experienced real trauma but this is creating a whole new sector
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Post by Northy on Jun 30, 2022 12:16:51 GMT
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