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Post by bayernoatcake on May 12, 2022 22:28:50 GMT
And I agree, I don’t think he’s a particularly good keeper but people that matter do and that’s what matters and what always mattered. People 'in the game' rate him, Scott Parker seemingly rates him - does that not make anyone on here think they MIGHT be wrong? Better judges than us might know a bit more about what makes a goalkeeper. He’s the England u21 first choice. It’s not just about Scott Parker.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2022 22:44:00 GMT
And I agree, I don’t think he’s a particularly good keeper but people that matter do and that’s what matters and what always mattered. People 'in the game' rate him, Scott Parker seemingly rates him - does that not make anyone on here think they MIGHT be wrong? Better judges than us might know a bit more about what makes a goalkeeper. Mark Hughes rated Kevin Wimmer. Football managers get it wrong too. You and Scott Parker may well be correct we'll have to wait and see.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 12, 2022 22:49:03 GMT
People 'in the game' rate him, Scott Parker seemingly rates him - does that not make anyone on here think they MIGHT be wrong? Better judges than us might know a bit more about what makes a goalkeeper. Mark Hughes rated Kevin Wimmer. Football managers get it wrong too. You and Scott Parker may well be correct we'll have to wait and see. Me? How many times do I have to say it, I don’t rate him. I prefer Nathan Broome if we were going one of our young England goalies 😂 But he’s the England u21 #1 and as such will be highly rated within the national set up. There’s a much bigger picture here that I think MON and a lot of you are ignoring.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2022 22:59:54 GMT
Mark Hughes rated Kevin Wimmer. Football managers get it wrong too. You and Scott Parker may well be correct we'll have to wait and see. Me? How many times do I have to say it, I don’t rate him. I prefer Nathan Broome if we were going one of our young England goalies 😂 But he’s the England u21 #1 and as such will be highly rated within the national set up. There’s a much bigger picture here that I think MON and a lot of you are ignoring. No sorry I was replying to baystokie. I still haven't worked out how to reply to just the last post!
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Post by Squeekster on May 12, 2022 23:24:37 GMT
Si, to make this clear Bayern, are you saying he’s highly rated in the game or not? He clearly is apart from by our useless manager. He's not good enough, I really hope Bournemouth sign him.
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Post by owdestokie2 on May 13, 2022 0:35:01 GMT
22 year old goalkeeper with hardly any 1st team experience, playing behind an inconsistent midfield/defence in leaky formation looks a little shaky………”He’s not good enough”………..Wow
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Post by biddulphchav on May 13, 2022 3:16:39 GMT
It’s hard with young keepers, because learning on the job can really cost the team.
I think Bursik has plenty of potential, but we need to either stick with him (so no chopping and changing after 2-3 games if he’s poor) or send him out on loan to League 1 where he can get a full season of 1st team football. I’d go with the latter to be honest, take the pressure off him a bit, when he comes back off that loan he’ll be ready to start, we should have done it this year to be fair.
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Post by s7oke on May 13, 2022 3:52:33 GMT
I think given a settled defence and a run in our first team Bursik will prove to be a decent keeper There has been too much chopping and changing at the back for any of us to have a decent opinion really to be fair to the lad.
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Post by questionable on May 13, 2022 4:03:46 GMT
22 year old goalkeeper with hardly any 1st team experience, playing behind an inconsistent midfield/defence in leaky formation looks a little shaky………”He’s not good enough”………..Wow Absolutely agree the Midfield and the Defence don’t help at times but that doesn’t mean he can act like a headless chicken, if he hadn’t come through our youth system we’d be hammering him for his very, very poor performances. No way he should be getting game time here let another team put up with his gaffes
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Post by Trouserdog on May 13, 2022 5:31:07 GMT
If we'd played Bursik more we'd probably lose money as potential suitors would realise he's not very good. No we wouldn’t. There was no reason to drop him in the first place and he’s clearly very highly rated within the game. We absolutely would. The more you expose someone who looks like a complete hype job, the less chance there is of someone signing him. Why do you think clubs stopped being interested in Butland as soon as he started throwing every shot he faced into the net? At the moment, there's still enough of a veneer provided by Bursik's England U21 status to mask the fact that he's looked pretty useless whenever he's played. The more we play him, the more mistakes he makes, the more his value drops. If we get an offer of £2m+ with some add-ons and clauses etc I'd have him out of the door and sign someone who can actually save one or two shots.
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Post by theonlooker on May 13, 2022 5:38:22 GMT
Bournemouth are an interesting case and have form for turning a highly rated but allegedly dodgy keeper in Ramsdale into a multi million pound player. Bought for 1M, sold for 18M.
I'd be concerned about shipping him out with glee for a bag of balls and a fag end.
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Post by robwahlmann on May 13, 2022 5:58:49 GMT
I really thought he looked the real deal after his first period between the sticks, but when he got his second chance I thought some of his confidence had gone. This season he has looked shaky all the time to me, especially when coming for crosses into our box. In his first period I thought his kicking was unreal as well, he really looked confident with the ball at his feet, but now he looks more vulnerable than ever before! What's happened!?
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Post by cobhamstokey on May 13, 2022 6:03:29 GMT
I really thought he looked the real deal after his first period between the sticks, but when he got his second chance I thought some of his confidence had gone. This season he has looked shaky all the time to me, especially when coming for crosses into our box. In his first period I thought his kicking was unreal as well, he really looked confident with the ball at his feet, but now he looks more vulnerable than ever before! What's happened!? this.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2022 6:51:06 GMT
He's not going to Bournemouth (if there is anything in the link) as first choice. They may think they can develop him and bring out the potential. He'll be a relatively cheap development project.
We don't have that luxury, we need a first choice keeper now if we are to improve our league position.
Selling him with some decent add ons makes sense for both parties.
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Post by HarryTheHat on May 13, 2022 6:53:59 GMT
Should snap their hand off. Even if he was as good as some on here believe (spoiler alert.... he ain't), we have more pressing priorities so the money is more use to us than Joe is
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 13, 2022 7:05:45 GMT
No we wouldn’t. There was no reason to drop him in the first place and he’s clearly very highly rated within the game. We absolutely would. The more you expose someone who looks like a complete hype job, the less chance there is of someone signing him. Why do you think clubs stopped being interested in Butland as soon as he started throwing every shot he faced into the net? At the moment, there's still enough of a veneer provided by Bursik's England U21 status to mask the fact that he's looked pretty useless whenever he's played. The more we play him, the more mistakes he makes, the more his value drops. If we get an offer of £2m+ with some add-ons and clauses etc I'd have him out of the door and sign someone who can actually save one or two shots. I don’t think so. I think dropping him and then putting him back and then dropping him has done more damage than sticking with him would have done. There was no need to drop him in the first place. And the goalkeeping situation hasn’t improved since. They’ve all been terrible. Butland still got a PL move. Bursik is in his formative years and will make mistakes. That will be taken into account. The reaction to him has been shocking tbh. People seem to forget he’s 20/21 and learning.
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Post by stokie1947 on May 13, 2022 7:43:44 GMT
big mistake if they sell him he has plenty of potential
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Post by stokedons on May 13, 2022 8:27:35 GMT
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Post by FullerMagic on May 13, 2022 8:37:33 GMT
Can't find any original link with Chelsea though, just the Bournemouth one from Talksport. Seems to maybe be an error by whoever was compiling the list of rumours? Maybe with him being out of contract next summer (and potentially not feeling valued or rated by MON?), can't see the fee climbing that high - although it'd be interesting to see what it was if the move went ahead. Playing Jack Bonham ahead of you for half a season isn't going to make you really feel you've got a future here
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 13, 2022 9:02:45 GMT
Can't find any original link with Chelsea though, just the Bournemouth one from Talksport. Seems to maybe be an error by whoever was compiling the list of rumours? Maybe with him being out of contract next summer (and potentially not feeling valued or rated by MON?), can't see the fee climbing that high - although it'd be interesting to see what it was if the move went ahead. Playing Jack Bonham ahead of you for half a season isn't going to make you really feel you've got a future here As a young English keeper it wouldn't surprise me if one of the big boys took a chance on him as a 3rd choice keeper to integrate with the group or by then sending him back out on loan. ....
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Post by cheekymatt71 on May 13, 2022 9:06:56 GMT
All this potential talk is just THAT - potential which could go either way.
Maybe its just confidence is low but he is great at making saves at shots in the corner. Doesnt command his box. Kicking is erratic.
We need a proper strong goalkeeper as the Number 1. Bursik is just not ready to be first choice in a championship chasing team. He can moan all he wants about not getting enough games but he has not proven himself when given the chance.
I would be very surprised if he is first choice keeper next season for any team in the Championship or Premier League. He needs a whole season in League 1 perhaps
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Post by FullerMagic on May 13, 2022 9:10:58 GMT
Can't find any original link with Chelsea though, just the Bournemouth one from Talksport. Seems to maybe be an error by whoever was compiling the list of rumours? Maybe with him being out of contract next summer (and potentially not feeling valued or rated by MON?), can't see the fee climbing that high - although it'd be interesting to see what it was if the move went ahead. Playing Jack Bonham ahead of you for half a season isn't going to make you really feel you've got a future here As a young English keeper it wouldn't surprise me if one of the big boys took a chance on him as a 3rd choice keeper to integrate with the group or by then sending him back out on loan. .... Yeah, can see it. In Prem terms, he'd be cheap, young and English which is good for them. It's another thing when you're looking for a consistent keeper who's going to be reliable at the top end of the Championship. He has definitely got something about him, and his ability with the ball at his feet could really be top-level. But I've never been convinced that he keeps as many shots out as he should, which is his primary job. And the stats seem to bear that out Time's on his side obviously, but he has played 80 league games, which is not nothing.
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Post by Gary Hackett on May 13, 2022 9:18:24 GMT
I really thought he looked the real deal after his first period between the sticks, but when he got his second chance I thought some of his confidence had gone. This season he has looked shaky all the time to me, especially when coming for crosses into our box. In his first period I thought his kicking was unreal as well, he really looked confident with the ball at his feet, but now he looks more vulnerable than ever before! What's happened!? Exactly. He needed to spend the last season on loan to continue his development whilst we had Davies on the books and he could have come back more assured.
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Post by wuzza on May 13, 2022 9:28:17 GMT
This thread has the makings of one that will be revisited many times in years to come when Joe has the chance to develop his career further !
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 13, 2022 9:31:33 GMT
As a young English keeper it wouldn't surprise me if one of the big boys took a chance on him as a 3rd choice keeper to integrate with the group or by then sending him back out on loan. .... Yeah, can see it. In Prem terms, he'd be cheap, young and English which is good for them. It's another thing when you're looking for a consistent keeper who's going to be reliable at the top end of the Championship. He has definitely got something about him, and his ability with the ball at his feet could really be top-level. But I've never been convinced that he keeps as many shots out as he should, which is his primary job. And the stats seem to bear that out Time's on his side obviously, but he has played 80 league games, which is not nothing. Man City will need an English replacement for Scott Carson for example, I'm only half joking.......
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Post by skiptomylou on May 13, 2022 9:39:53 GMT
Is this the u21 International that was being picked ahead of Aaron Ramsdale? By that esteemed manager Aidy Boothroyd?
Ones had a fantastic season for Arsenal.
Ones been benched behind a jobber GK
Ones was sacked for failing miserably and will probably never manage a football league club again.
Shows what people in the game know but fans know nothing about football because we just sit in a stand and watch.
He's playing for the u21 because there's a lack of alternative options, not because he's an outstanding prospect. He'll probably have the same sort of career that world cup winner will have. Tashan Oakley something.
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Post by werrington on May 13, 2022 9:41:35 GMT
This thread has the makings of one that will be revisited many times in years to come when Joe has the chance to develop his career further ! The same people who advocate youth and getting young lads in the team are the same ones who want them fucked off and discarded as not good enough after just a few appearances Pathetic tbh
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Post by SuperRickyFuller on May 13, 2022 10:52:17 GMT
Admittedly, I'm not completely sold on Bursik and performances like on Saturday don't help one bit.
However, it's hard to really judge him when he's been in and out the team and had the defence and system chopped and changed in front of him at times that's felt random. How's a young lad (or any player for that matter) is supposed to flourish when he hasn't had any consistency in front of him? I imagine it's also hard to build up any kind of relationship or understanding between players too.
For me, we either back him or get rid, none of this swapping between keepers shite again. Otherwise we're wasting another season with no established number 1 and potentially wasting another season for a young lad who needs to be playing regularly, whether it be at this level or lower down.
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Post by tachyon on May 13, 2022 11:27:31 GMT
Here's the shot stopping crib sheets we use to write about a keeper's shot stopping qualities. It's 20 shot rolling averages for goals allowed compared to the difficulty of the shots/headers faced. It's then heavily smoothed to get a trendline. Above the line, a keeper is on a run where he has saved more than expected, below the line an he's allowed more goals than expected. Distance from the zero line shows how extreme his performance has been. Length of the plot corresponds how many on target attempts each keeper has faced (these are all for Stoke, not their previous/future clubs). Last time we had a prolonged bout of over performance was Sept 2018 to March 2019. (Jack Butland). It's been treading water or slightly drowning since then.
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on May 13, 2022 11:30:13 GMT
Can't see Bursik thrilled at the prospect at spending a year in League 1. And his Mum will be pissed off too! I think he'll go.
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