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Post by Do it for dobing on May 1, 2022 8:39:14 GMT
At the moment he doesn`t inspire confidence in most parts of his game.Doesn`t command his area ,shot stopping non existent,always a mistake in him.We need better
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Post by werrington on May 1, 2022 8:44:19 GMT
Oh ffs not this again
21 year old young kid, England international being written off on the oatcake ….see Campbell also
It really is becoming a cess pit this place
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Post by chuckrocky on May 1, 2022 8:44:26 GMT
A decent keeper has got to be one of the top priorities in the next window.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on May 1, 2022 8:45:04 GMT
Oh ffs not this again 21 year old young kid, England international being written off on the oatcake It really is becoming a cess pit this place Becoming🤔🤣
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Post by thewonderstuff on May 1, 2022 8:48:50 GMT
Was he to blame for the goals yesterday? I can't bring myself to watch it back but my recollection was that our abysmal midfield was the main issue. Allen, Sawyers and Baker were all fucking terrible.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 1, 2022 8:54:09 GMT
I’ve only seen the goals and he’s not at fault for one of them.
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Post by Do it for dobing on May 1, 2022 8:56:15 GMT
Oh ffs not this again 21 year old young kid, England international being written off on the oatcake ….see Campbell also It really is becoming a cess pit this place Not the point how many times has he put a match winning performance in
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Post by chuckrocky on May 1, 2022 8:58:27 GMT
Oh ffs not this again 21 year old young kid, England international being written off on the oatcake ….see Campbell also It really is becoming a cess pit this place It’s not writing someone off saying that currently they aren’t good enough. He’s clearly got a lot of potential but all three of the keepers we’ve used this season have been disappointing.
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Post by stokiedan17 on May 1, 2022 9:06:11 GMT
I’ve only seen the goals and he’s not at fault for one of them. I completely agree. The only thing I’d question would be the first goal where to me it looked like he went down way to early and the wrong way. Even if it hadn’t taken a deflection I’m not sure he would have saved it but I’d need a better angle to say for definite.
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Post by jokker on May 1, 2022 9:16:38 GMT
At the moment he doesn`t inspire confidence in most parts of his game.Doesn`t command his area ,shot stopping non existent,always a mistake in him.We need better I didn't watch yesterday's game because of a family wake, but I just look at the facts. This was only his second game after a long absence, during which the only football he played was training, no reserve team games, because we don't have one. He needs time longer than "the moment" to get back to the huge talent he is. Do you think Banks was a world beater when he was young and playing in the lower divisions?
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Post by jokker on May 1, 2022 9:17:47 GMT
Oh ffs not this again 21 year old young kid, England international being written off on the oatcake ….see Campbell also It really is becoming a cess pit this place It’s not writing someone off saying that currently they aren’t good enough. He’s clearly got a lot of potential but all three of the keepers we’ve used this season have been disappointing. That applies to more than just the goalies.
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on May 1, 2022 9:28:47 GMT
The main problem is the changing of the keeper every 6 or 7 games this season has seen so many changes its become a bit of a joke.
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Post by Do it for dobing on May 1, 2022 9:31:19 GMT
At the moment he doesn`t inspire confidence in most parts of his game.Doesn`t command his area ,shot stopping non existent,always a mistake in him.We need better I didn't watch yesterday's game because of a family wake, but I just look at the facts. This was only his second game after a long absence, during which the only football he played was training, no reserve team games, because we don't have one. He needs time longer than "the moment" to get back to the huge talent he is. Do you think Banks was a world beater when he was young and playing in the lower divisions?
[/b] He was outstanding hence the move to Leicester and to the England senior team.Comparing Bursik to Banks is ridiculous,the latter was one of the greatest of all time
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Post by scfc75 on May 1, 2022 9:32:36 GMT
The stats show that when he plays, he’s an average Champo keeper, which given his age and the level he’s playing at, is very impressive. He’ll continue to learn and get better, provided we stick with him.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 1, 2022 9:33:05 GMT
I’ve only seen the goals and he’s not at fault for one of them. I completely agree. The only thing I’d question would be the first goal where to me it looked like he went down way to early and the wrong way. Even if it hadn’t taken a deflection I’m not sure he would have saved it but I’d need a better angle to say for definite. Looked fine to me and that the ball would have rolled into his hands.
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Post by mickstupp on May 1, 2022 9:44:27 GMT
Not at fault yesterday, and I don’t particularly rate him.
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Post by nottsover60 on May 1, 2022 9:45:45 GMT
Was he to blame for the goals yesterday? I can't bring myself to watch it back but my recollection was that our abysmal midfield was the main issue. Allen, Sawyers and Baker were all fucking terrible. He always looks competent and calm but you have to question his shot stopping. Yesterday he conceded 3 goals from 2 shots on target. Alright the og wasn't his fault but 2 from 2 is disappointing. He doesn't make many mistakes and can't be faulted for many goals he concedes but that doesn't mean he couldn't do better. I can't remember any fantastic saves he's made when you've thought 'How did he do that?' The statistics show that he concedes virtually every shot on target that reaches him, yesterday wasn't a one off. In other words standing a dummy on the line would do just as well at shot stopping. Something has to be wrong there. You want your gk like Pope and Foster yesterday making game changing saves. I've often said that Burnley have survived and their defence looked good because of the fantastic saves their gk's make. If we'd had an above average gk this season would we have dropped as many points and possibly been looking at the playoffs now?
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Post by chuckrocky on May 1, 2022 9:52:12 GMT
These are the save % rates from Championship keepers. Obviously there’s a lot more to goalkeeping than shot-stopping but it does give a good indication of where he needs to improve.
Samba (Forest) - 79.3% Nicholls (Huddersfield) - 78.3% Travers (Bournemouth) -76.2% Shea (Luton) - 75% Foderingham (Sheff Utd) - 75% Rodak (Fulham) - 74.4% Bialkowski (Millwall) - 74.1% Ingram (Hull) - 73.4% Kaminaki (Blackburn) - 71.3% Allsop (Derby) - 70.9% Bentley (Bristol City) - 70.6% Iverson (Preston) - 70.5% Collins (Barnsley) - 69.7% Grimshaw (Blackpool) - 69.3% Dieng (QPR) - 68.4% Sarkic (B’ham) - 67.9% Hamer (Swansea) - 67.5 % Southwood (Reading) - 66.7% Lumley (Middlesbrough) - 66.3% Moore (Coventry) - 65.7% Johnstone (West Brom) - 64% Cornell (Peterborough) - 61.8% Bursik (Stoke) - 57.1% Smithies (Cardiff) - 56.8%
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Post by tachyon on May 1, 2022 9:54:41 GMT
The stats show that when he plays, he’s an average Champo keeper, which given his age and the level he’s playing at, is very impressive. He’ll continue to learn and get better, provided we stick with him. Based on the quality of the on target shots he's faced in the Championship (~100) he's allowed around 20% more goals than an average Championship keeper. That ranks him 147th out of 162 for keepers who have faced at least 20 shots since 2014. At 21 and 300 days he needs to start moving the dial.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 1, 2022 10:00:16 GMT
The stats show that when he plays, he’s an average Champo keeper, which given his age and the level he’s playing at, is very impressive. He’ll continue to learn and get better, provided we stick with him. Based on the quality of the on target shots he's faced in the Championship (~100) he's allowed around 20% more goals than an average Championship keeper. That ranks him 147th out of 162 for keepers who have faced at least 20 shots since 2014. At 21 and 300 days he needs to start moving the dial. Hmm. That is awful. I remember his stats in that area were poor previously. I love his confidence, and he seems like he could be elite with his feet and distribution. But his shot-stopping has always been suspect. It's going to be decision time with him soon, after 80-ish pro games. Do you persist with a below average shot-stopper based on his "potential" without seeing any noticeable uptick. And Bonham isn't really up to it either. And they've both only got 1 more year.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 1, 2022 10:02:30 GMT
These are the save % rates from Championship keepers. Obviously there’s a lot more to goalkeeping than shot-stopping but it does give a good indication of where he needs to improve. Samba (Forest) - 79.3% Nicholls (Huddersfield) - 78.3% Travers (Bournemouth) -76.2% Shea (Luton) - 75% Foderingham (Sheff Utd) - 75% Rodak (Fulham) - 74.4% Bialkowski (Millwall) - 74.1% Ingram (Hull) - 73.4% Kaminaki (Blackburn) - 71.3% Allsop (Derby) - 70.9% Bentley (Bristol City) - 70.6% Iverson (Preston) - 70.5% Collins (Barnsley) - 69.7% Grimshaw (Blackpool) - 69.3% Dieng (QPR) - 68.4% Sarkic (B’ham) - 67.9% Hamer (Swansea) - 67.5 % Southwood (Reading) - 66.7% Lumley (Middlesbrough) - 66.3% Moore (Coventry) - 65.7% Johnstone (West Brom) - 64% Cornell (Peterborough) - 61.8% Bursik (Stoke) - 57.1% Smithies (Cardiff) - 56.8% Samba is a dreadful goalie. Don’t you love stats.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2022 10:03:09 GMT
The main problem is the changing of the keeper every 6 or 7 games this season has seen so many changes its become a bit of a joke. Changing it to Bursik is a problem . I agree, nowhere near good enough and this he's young and will get better isn't an argument. Low shots beat him way too easily . MON said he would give him games so not a problem really yesterday him playing but need better.
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Post by chuckrocky on May 1, 2022 10:05:37 GMT
These are the save % rates from Championship keepers. Obviously there’s a lot more to goalkeeping than shot-stopping but it does give a good indication of where he needs to improve. Samba (Forest) - 79.3% Nicholls (Huddersfield) - 78.3% Travers (Bournemouth) -76.2% Shea (Luton) - 75% Foderingham (Sheff Utd) - 75% Rodak (Fulham) - 74.4% Bialkowski (Millwall) - 74.1% Ingram (Hull) - 73.4% Kaminaki (Blackburn) - 71.3% Allsop (Derby) - 70.9% Bentley (Bristol City) - 70.6% Iverson (Preston) - 70.5% Collins (Barnsley) - 69.7% Grimshaw (Blackpool) - 69.3% Dieng (QPR) - 68.4% Sarkic (B’ham) - 67.9% Hamer (Swansea) - 67.5 % Southwood (Reading) - 66.7% Lumley (Middlesbrough) - 66.3% Moore (Coventry) - 65.7% Johnstone (West Brom) - 64% Cornell (Peterborough) - 61.8% Bursik (Stoke) - 57.1% Smithies (Cardiff) - 56.8% Samba is a dreadful goalie. Don’t you love stats. He’s a complete basket case but Forest fans rate him highly. It’s pretty telling that the top 6 on that list play for current top 6 sides.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 1, 2022 10:07:26 GMT
Samba is a dreadful goalie. Don’t you love stats. He’s a complete basket case but Forest fans rate him highly. It’s pretty telling that the top 6 on that list play for current top 6 sides. Do they? Strange. But each to their own.
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Post by callas12 on May 1, 2022 10:08:12 GMT
Heard Andy Griffin on Radio Stoke a week or so ago & he said if Bursik is good enough to play for England Under 21's he should be good enough to play for us and he felt there was something wrong with the fact that he was sat on the bench instead of playing which was at the time Bonham was playing in goals for us.
He also said that if he's good enough and so highly rated within football the fact he's 21 shouldn't make a difference which is a great point well made.
Phil Fodens the same age & he seems to have been around forever. He's been nurtured up to this point but at 21 is considered a key part of a Premier League winning side and also an England squad that got to the Euro Finals
Bukayo Saka is only 20 and he's well established in the Arsenal and England set up.
As age shouldn't be used as an issue, England set up obviously rate him highly why is he not delivering or considered solid No.1 for us?!
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Post by thewonderstuff on May 1, 2022 10:08:29 GMT
Back to yesterday. None of it was really his fault was it?
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Post by cvillestokie on May 1, 2022 10:29:38 GMT
This year we have had one game where I thought, “wow, the goalie kept us in it properly there”, that was QPR and Davies. Every other game this season I’ve either felt “meh, they were okay”, or “wow, they were tripe”. So that’s one good game I can really remember from our lot in 45 this season, perhaps Bonham had one recently too. It’s an issue i take with, “not really his fault” as well. Just because they were not easy shots, doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t be saving them. You only have stand out games as a goalkeeper when you are making a lot of saves or dealing with a high volume of crosses. Otherwise it’s just meh or tripe. A key component to any match is having a goalie who isn’t going to leak goals left and right. Despite being fairly dull going forward, we’ve barely kept a clean sheet this season. It’s an area that needs addressing as a priority this window. Bursik isn’t ready. We should try and see if a team promoted to the league want him on loan, or send him to league 1. Trying to rotate him through hasn’t worked this season and he simply can’t do the most important thing a goalkeeper needs to. I don’t particularly care if he plays for the U21s, so did Fielding. Here’s a list of them: www.transfermarkt.us/england-u21/torhueterchronik/verein/9565Few of them have made it on to become top goalkeepers.
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Post by pistol on May 1, 2022 10:30:03 GMT
Are there any outstanding keepers in this league? Haven’t seen many.
And it should be no surprise that the statistically better goalies play for the better teams. They’ll be getting better protection from their teammates in front of them.
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Post by boskampsflaps on May 1, 2022 10:30:57 GMT
What a load of bollocks.
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 1, 2022 10:33:08 GMT
Are there any outstanding keepers in this league? Haven’t seen many. And it should be no surprise that the statistically better goalies play for the better teams. They’ll be getting better protection from their teammates in front of them. Iversen at Preston is who we should go for, on loan from Leicester and I can't see him displacing Schmeichel although he might end up being number two if they move Danny Ward on (who I'd take also btw).........
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