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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 24, 2022 13:09:08 GMT
re Bursik. SLP claim Championship interest in him Watford want all of our better players
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 24, 2022 13:11:27 GMT
re Bursik. SLP claim Championship interest in him Watford want all of our better players Bayern's dropping ITK bombs again
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Post by callas12 on Jun 24, 2022 13:12:08 GMT
& seems Watford have a thing for ex Stoke goalkeepers!
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 24, 2022 13:12:43 GMT
Burnley or Watford surely?
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Post by tejstokie on Jun 24, 2022 13:13:16 GMT
If we go into the season with Bursik or Bonham as the first choice we're in big trouble. You can't get away with a dodgy keeper if the rest of your side is as average as ours is. We really need an upgrade in-between the sticks for this upcoming season. Bursik should move on to a top championship side to start or to a PL side as their third option. He could be great, but from what I've seen. Not overly impressed. He'll need to work to get to those heights.
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Post by Caddick988 on Jun 24, 2022 13:58:17 GMT
With Nick Pope going to Newcastle it wouldn't surprise me if Burnley were looking at Bursik. I'd seen rumours they were looking at Harwood-Bellis too so they might be trying to build a young English spine. All speculation on my part though.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 24, 2022 14:08:50 GMT
SLP saying it's a parachute club interested in Bursik, so Burnley and Watford would fit
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Post by biglad180 on Jun 24, 2022 14:52:33 GMT
Same deal as we got for Collins snap there hands off.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 24, 2022 14:54:29 GMT
Same deal as we got for Collins snap there hands off. Can't see us getting more than £2m with only 12 months left on his deal and MON seemingly not a massive fan Watford could have some good money floating around if it's them though, and he could be No.1 if Bachmann goes to Man U for £3-4m as has been touted
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Post by thewonderstuff on Jun 25, 2022 21:34:39 GMT
Same deal as we got for Collins snap there hands off. Can't see us getting more than £2m with only 12 months left on his deal and MON seemingly not a massive fan Watford could have some good money floating around if it's them though, and he could be No.1 if Bachmann goes to Man U for £3-4m as has been touted It would be utterly barmy to sell him for that level of peanuts, FM. Simply no point. Identified by the England set up as being good enough at every level since the age of 16. The current U21 regular and willing to sell at £2M? If he goes for that it will say more about O'Neil and his awful judgement and the current set up than it ever will about Bursik.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 25, 2022 21:46:53 GMT
Can't see us getting more than £2m with only 12 months left on his deal and MON seemingly not a massive fan Watford could have some good money floating around if it's them though, and he could be No.1 if Bachmann goes to Man U for £3-4m as has been touted It would be utterly barmy to sell him for that level of peanuts, FM. Simply no point. Identified by the England set up as being good enough at every level since the age of 16. The current U21 regular and willing to sell at £2M? If he goes for that it will say more about O'Neil and his awful judgement and the current set up than it ever will about Bursik. With a year left and noises that he’s not happy so unlikely to sign a new deal we should take what we can get. I wanted MON gone but Bursik isn’t that good that the owners will choose him over their manager.
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Post by thewonderstuff on Jun 25, 2022 21:49:09 GMT
It would be utterly barmy to sell him for that level of peanuts, FM. Simply no point. Identified by the England set up as being good enough at every level since the age of 16. The current U21 regular and willing to sell at £2M? If he goes for that it will say more about O'Neil and his awful judgement and the current set up than it ever will about Bursik. With a year left and noises that he’s not happy so unlikely to sign a new deal we should take what we can get. I wanted MON gone but Bursik isn’t that good that the owners will choose him over their manager. Yep. The owners judgement is as completely flawed as the manager's.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 25, 2022 21:55:03 GMT
With a year left and noises that he’s not happy so unlikely to sign a new deal we should take what we can get. I wanted MON gone but Bursik isn’t that good that the owners will choose him over their manager. Yep. The owners judgement is as completely flawed as the manager's. Generally yes but I’d generally disagree with them but not on this point. We shouldn’t allow players with any value into their final year without actively looking to sell them no matter how good they are. It would be the same for Powell for me and he’d be a far higher priority to keep than Bursik. Offer a contract negotiate, if you can’t agree actively look to sell.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jun 25, 2022 22:13:56 GMT
Only on the Oatcake would you get supporters who would get rid of a 20/21 year old England international Goalkeeper who’s “not so good”
It really does beggar belief
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 25, 2022 22:20:45 GMT
Only on the Oatcake would you get supporters who would get rid of a 20/21 year old England international Goalkeeper who’s “not so good” It really does beggar belief It beggars belief that a goalkeeper cannot rate shot stopping as a general strength in their resume.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 25, 2022 22:22:53 GMT
Get rid if a decent offer comes in. What he goes on to be in the future is of little consequence to us
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 25, 2022 22:28:33 GMT
Get rid if a decent offer comes in. What he goes on to be in the future is of little consequence to us Exactly. Unless we can get him a new contract, we need to sell. He will want guarantees to be number one if he signs and I simply don’t think he’s anywhere near good enough. What he does against lesser U21 sides where he’s barely expected to make a save does not really interest me.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 25, 2022 22:30:18 GMT
Get rid if a decent offer comes in. What he goes on to be in the future is of little consequence to us Exactly. Unless we can get him a new contract, we need to sell. He will want guarantees to be number one if he signs and I simply don’t think he’s anywhere near good enough. What he does against lesser U21 sides where he’s barely expected to make a save does not really interest me. There’s no room for some kind of romantic vision of a young kid come good. We need a promotion winning side.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 25, 2022 23:01:59 GMT
Only on the Oatcake would you get supporters who would get rid of a 20/21 year old England international Goalkeeper who’s “not so good” It really does beggar belief Let's suppose we do have to sell an asset to bring in some cash because of our circumstances, I guess the question is who would it be? Bursik Souttar Tymon Powell Campbell Brown
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Post by march4 on Jun 25, 2022 23:23:57 GMT
Only on the Oatcake would you get supporters who would get rid of a 20/21 year old England international Goalkeeper who’s “not so good” It really does beggar belief Let's suppose we do have to sell an asset to bring in some cash because of our circumstances, I guess the question is who would it be? Bursik Souttar Tymon Powell Campbell Brown Brown followed by Powell. Bursik will be England keeper for years and it would be madness to let him go.
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Post by BraveSirRobin on Jun 25, 2022 23:27:29 GMT
Let's suppose we do have to sell an asset to bring in some cash because of our circumstances, I guess the question is who would it be? Bursik Souttar Tymon Powell Campbell Brown Brown followed by Powell. Bursik will be England keeper for years and it would be madness to let him go. Bursik will never be a full international.
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Post by gawa on Jun 25, 2022 23:30:27 GMT
Only on the Oatcake would you get supporters who would get rid of a 20/21 year old England international Goalkeeper who’s “not so good” It really does beggar belief The same people on the oatcake who think we should extend his contract would be complaining 2 years later when we’ve got a keeper on high wages that isn’t good enough and that we can’t get off our books. It’s a balance of risk v reward. Our ambitions right now are to enter the playoffs, the statistics show that GK has been one of our weakest positions and that Joe Bursik is below average in this league, currently. Too many people on here are happy to judge him on his international credentials and ignore his lacklustre performances at Stoke. And while he has represented England a lot, he wasn’t always first choice throughout those age groups. Curtis Anderson was #1 for England U17 when they won the World Cup, he’s now playing non league at Lancaster. Jack Butland and Angus Gunn who many thought weren’t good enough, both have represented EnglandU21 more than Bursik. And dare I say it, both put in better performances for Stoke than Bursik has. If Bursik is expecting to be number one or wants a big pay rise then he needs to work for it and show he’s worth it. If he’s not willing to do that then we should cash in while we can and get someone capable of matching our ambitions right now. Not someone with potential who may or may not push on. And that doesn’t mean I don’t believe Bursik can become a very good goalkeeper. But sometimes you have the right player at the wrong time and I feel both parties need to make a mutual ageeement and be honest about what they need right now. Bursik might want guaranteed first team football. O’Neil will want to be challenging for playoffs. If an agreement can’t be made that keeps both parties happy then sometimes it’s best to cash in while you can. And you can’t really say he hasn’t been given opportunities either. He’s played a lot of game.
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Post by boltonstokie on Jun 25, 2022 23:48:08 GMT
Let's suppose we do have to sell an asset to bring in some cash because of our circumstances, I guess the question is who would it be? Bursik Souttar Tymon Powell Campbell Brown Brown followed by Powell. Bursik will be England keeper for years and it would be madness to let him go. You’re kidding right?? Bursik is rubbish!!!! He will slowly drop down the leagues and eventually end up in league two.
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Post by gawa on Jun 26, 2022 0:19:13 GMT
Let's suppose we do have to sell an asset to bring in some cash because of our circumstances, I guess the question is who would it be? Bursik Souttar Tymon Powell Campbell Brown Brown followed by Powell. Bursik will be England keeper for years and it would be madness to let him go. England goalkeeper for years. Where is this coming from haha? Aaron Ramsdale is 24 and has played premier league football from the age of 21 Dean Henderson is 25 and won promotion with Sheffield at the age of 21 as well as playing premier league football since. Josef Bursik is 21 and domestically isn’t even the best young English goalkeeper in the championship. Here’s a statistic for you. Championship 21/22: Josef Bursik English Age 21 - 58.3% save percentage Nathan Baxter English Age 23 - 82.3% save percentage To put those stats into numbers: Bursik faced 60 shots on target in 19 games and conceded 25 goals. Saving 36 shots. Baxter faced 79 shots on target in 16 games and conceded 17 goals. Saving 65 shots. I’m aware the stats are slightly off, I believe this may be due to own goals. Anyway had Baxter faced the 60 shots Bursik did he would have made 49 saves. And let’s assume he concedes an own goal too. That would be 12 goals conceded. So that change of goalkeeper for just the games Bursik played would see our goal difference go from +5 to +17. And the funny thing about it too is that Bursik was on average facing 3 shots a game which shows the defence were actually doing a good job protecting him. Baxter was facing 5 shots a game. So to conclude. Bursik may well become an England international at some stage but there are many other young English goalkeepers that were doing a lot more at Bursiks age and as far as the championship goes, he’s not even the best young English goalkeeper there, right now. So to conclude. Everything simply comes down to keeping both parties happy so you have a good changing room. And also doing a risk v reward analysis. In the past we took a lot of risks which haven’t paid off and which we are still literally paying for right now. Selling Bursik could end up being a decision to regret a few years down the line. But if a new goalkeeper was to come in and put in playoff form then I really don’t think we’ll regret it that much.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 26, 2022 0:22:39 GMT
Only on the Oatcake would you get supporters who would get rid of a 20/21 year old England international Goalkeeper who’s “not so good” It really does beggar belief The same people on the oatcake who think we should extend his contract would be complaining 2 years later when we’ve got a keeper on high wages that isn’t good enough and that we can’t get off our books. It’s a balance of risk v reward. Our ambitions right now are to enter the playoffs, the statistics show that GK has been one of our weakest positions and that Joe Bursik is below average in this league, currently. Too many people on here are happy to judge him on his international credentials and ignore his lacklustre performances at Stoke. And while he has represented England a lot, he wasn’t always first choice throughout those age groups. Curtis Anderson was #1 for England U17 when they won the World Cup, he’s now playing non league at Lancaster. Jack Butland and Angus Gunn who many thought weren’t good enough, both have represented EnglandU21 more than Bursik. And dare I say it, both put in better performances for Stoke than Bursik has. If Bursik is expecting to be number one or wants a big pay rise then he needs to work for it and show he’s worth it. If he’s not willing to do that then we should cash in while we can and get someone capable of matching our ambitions right now. Not someone with potential who may or may not push on. And that doesn’t mean I don’t believe Bursik can become a very good goalkeeper. But sometimes you have the right player at the wrong time and I feel both parties need to make a mutual ageeement and be honest about what they need right now. Bursik might want guaranteed first team football. O’Neil will want to be challenging for playoffs. If an agreement can’t be made that keeps both parties happy then sometimes it’s best to cash in while you can. And you can’t really say he hasn’t been given opportunities either. He’s played a lot of game. He should have been playing to improve his value. The way he’s been handled has been shocking.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2022 0:49:24 GMT
Let's suppose we do have to sell an asset to bring in some cash because of our circumstances, I guess the question is who would it be? Bursik Souttar Tymon Powell Campbell Brown Brown followed by Powell. Bursik will be England keeper for years and it would be madness to let him go. What like Fielding, who has more U21 caps than Bursik and is currently our no. 3. Look down the list of U21 keepers and at least half of them have had nothing careers.
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Post by gawa on Jun 26, 2022 0:55:35 GMT
The same people on the oatcake who think we should extend his contract would be complaining 2 years later when we’ve got a keeper on high wages that isn’t good enough and that we can’t get off our books. It’s a balance of risk v reward. Our ambitions right now are to enter the playoffs, the statistics show that GK has been one of our weakest positions and that Joe Bursik is below average in this league, currently. Too many people on here are happy to judge him on his international credentials and ignore his lacklustre performances at Stoke. And while he has represented England a lot, he wasn’t always first choice throughout those age groups. Curtis Anderson was #1 for England U17 when they won the World Cup, he’s now playing non league at Lancaster. Jack Butland and Angus Gunn who many thought weren’t good enough, both have represented EnglandU21 more than Bursik. And dare I say it, both put in better performances for Stoke than Bursik has. If Bursik is expecting to be number one or wants a big pay rise then he needs to work for it and show he’s worth it. If he’s not willing to do that then we should cash in while we can and get someone capable of matching our ambitions right now. Not someone with potential who may or may not push on. And that doesn’t mean I don’t believe Bursik can become a very good goalkeeper. But sometimes you have the right player at the wrong time and I feel both parties need to make a mutual ageeement and be honest about what they need right now. Bursik might want guaranteed first team football. O’Neil will want to be challenging for playoffs. If an agreement can’t be made that keeps both parties happy then sometimes it’s best to cash in while you can. And you can’t really say he hasn’t been given opportunities either. He’s played a lot of game. He should have been playing to improve his value. The way he’s been handled has been shocking. I think his domestic appearances for Stoke have decreased his value if I am honest. December 2020 is where I think it went wrong for him. He had a decent start to the season at Peterborough but was recalled due to the injuries with Davies and Gunn. He then has been given opportunities since but I feel he’s been playing a level too high for his age at the time. And I’m not sure but maybe that’s gone to his head a bit, who knows. I think due to his stats no other championship club would take him as a number one. I think due to his experience he won’t want to go to league one again (even though I think it could do him the world of good). So it’s either guarantee him first team football and sign him up, or let him go. And back to the international stuff again. James Trafford is 19 and achieved a save % of 75% at Bolton last season (higher than Bursik has ever achieved), he is then going back on loan there again next season. He also recently made his England u21 debut and is going back to Bolton on loan next season. Unless Bursik is playing regular games next season and putting in good performances, I think his international position may be at risk.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 26, 2022 1:00:02 GMT
He should have been playing to improve his value. The way he’s been handled has been shocking. I think his domestic appearances for Stoke have decreased his value if I am honest. December 2020 is where I think it went wrong for him. He had a decent start to the season at Peterborough but was recalled due to the injuries with Davies and Gunn. He then has been given opportunities since but I feel he’s been playing a level too high for his age at the time. And I’m not sure but maybe that’s gone to his head a bit, who knows. I think due to his stats no other championship club would take him as a number one. I think due to his experience he won’t want to go to league one again (even though I think it could do him the world of good). So it’s either guarantee him first team football and sign him up, or let him go. And back to the international stuff again. James Trafford is 19 and achieved a save % of 75% at Bolton last season (higher than Bursik has ever achieved), he is then going back on loan there again next season. He also recently made his England u21 debut and is going back to Bolton on loan next season. Unless Bursik is playing regular games next season and putting in good performances, I think his international position may be at risk. What’s decreased his value has not been playing him. He’s still going to get a move. That’s hypothetical. The manager pissed around with 3 goalkeepers and has stunted the career of two of them and given the most game time to a League One standard at best nobody. It’s been terrible.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 26, 2022 1:05:41 GMT
The same people on the oatcake who think we should extend his contract would be complaining 2 years later when we’ve got a keeper on high wages that isn’t good enough and that we can’t get off our books. It’s a balance of risk v reward. Our ambitions right now are to enter the playoffs, the statistics show that GK has been one of our weakest positions and that Joe Bursik is below average in this league, currently. Too many people on here are happy to judge him on his international credentials and ignore his lacklustre performances at Stoke. And while he has represented England a lot, he wasn’t always first choice throughout those age groups. Curtis Anderson was #1 for England U17 when they won the World Cup, he’s now playing non league at Lancaster. Jack Butland and Angus Gunn who many thought weren’t good enough, both have represented EnglandU21 more than Bursik. And dare I say it, both put in better performances for Stoke than Bursik has. If Bursik is expecting to be number one or wants a big pay rise then he needs to work for it and show he’s worth it. If he’s not willing to do that then we should cash in while we can and get someone capable of matching our ambitions right now. Not someone with potential who may or may not push on. And that doesn’t mean I don’t believe Bursik can become a very good goalkeeper. But sometimes you have the right player at the wrong time and I feel both parties need to make a mutual ageeement and be honest about what they need right now. Bursik might want guaranteed first team football. O’Neil will want to be challenging for playoffs. If an agreement can’t be made that keeps both parties happy then sometimes it’s best to cash in while you can. And you can’t really say he hasn’t been given opportunities either. He’s played a lot of game. He should have been playing to improve his value. The way he’s been handled has been shocking. It’s the playing that’s made it worse. Simple shot after simple shot passing through him as if it was someone else’s job to stop them.
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Post by gawa on Jun 26, 2022 1:07:35 GMT
I think his domestic appearances for Stoke have decreased his value if I am honest. December 2020 is where I think it went wrong for him. He had a decent start to the season at Peterborough but was recalled due to the injuries with Davies and Gunn. He then has been given opportunities since but I feel he’s been playing a level too high for his age at the time. And I’m not sure but maybe that’s gone to his head a bit, who knows. I think due to his stats no other championship club would take him as a number one. I think due to his experience he won’t want to go to league one again (even though I think it could do him the world of good). So it’s either guarantee him first team football and sign him up, or let him go. And back to the international stuff again. James Trafford is 19 and achieved a save % of 75% at Bolton last season (higher than Bursik has ever achieved), he is then going back on loan there again next season. He also recently made his England u21 debut and is going back to Bolton on loan next season. Unless Bursik is playing regular games next season and putting in good performances, I think his international position may be at risk. What’s decreased his value has not been playing him. He’s still going to get a move. That’s hypothetical. The manager pissed around with 3 goalkeepers and has stunted the career of two of them and given the most game time to a League One standard at best nobody. It’s been terrible. He’s played a lot of games, over 20 each of the last two seasons and he was injured for an extended period last season too. I agree though that the goalkeeping department has been very poorly managed. And now we have Davies off the books who was earning a handsome sum, I believe, I really hope we invest in this area. I’d much rather money spent on a goalkeeper that makes a difference than take a risk with Bursik. The last two seasons haven’t worked with Bursik. Insanity is doing the same thing multiple times expecting different results.
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