|
Post by lordb on May 8, 2022 12:42:22 GMT
That's unfair He's impressed people at RWB, posters on here calling for him to be given a go at RWB in the first team Can't have it both ways, either you give youngsters a chance and if they don't play well then that's the risk you take or like a Tony Pulis you don't play them at all We have a better RWB out on loan and we’ve played a midfielder there. I think that sums the farce of MON up. Might well do or not but it's still wrong to say he hung Sparrow out to dry
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 8, 2022 12:44:29 GMT
That's unfair He's impressed people at RWB, posters on here calling for him to be given a go at RWB in the first team Can't have it both ways, either you give youngsters a chance and if they don't play well then that's the risk you take or like a Tony Pulis you don't play them at all We have a better RWB out on loan and we’ve played a midfielder there. I think that sums the farce of MON up. Who’s that then? Oh hang on, yeah that kid who’s currently playing in the Irish second division. As for Sparrows performance yesterday, I’m sorry but we would have been better off playing captain Jack Sparrow at right wing back.
|
|
|
Post by iamstokie on May 8, 2022 12:46:09 GMT
Chester has been a decent signing all things considered. He was part of a decent defensive unit last season that kept 23 clean sheets. He gets an unacceptable amount of abuse on here in my opinion. He made his final appearance yesterday, got booed onto the pitch and saved us a point with a goal line clearance. Really harsh treatment. He’s been gash start to finish. The booing restored a bit of faith for me. Indeed the general willingness of people around to openly call for MON to go too. People aren’t happy. I moved down near front of the Boothen yesterday to sit in the sun , there was not one person around me that supported MoN or wanted him to stay
|
|
|
Post by jokker on May 8, 2022 12:47:50 GMT
Re Sparrow, he’s been playing right wing back for 6 months. He’s a midfielder. Tbh he looked like he never played it before , the manager just hung him out to dry The youth coaches have been trying to solve O'Neill's rb/rwb problem by retraining an excellent midfield prospect into the position(s). You'd have to think that the conversion hasn't been all that successful, because despite talking Sparrow up for several months, O'Neill waited till the last game of the season to give him a chance in not his best position. I think he's done ok in it in the youth games as rwb, but yesterday it was a league game and of course it was a different scenario. You have to hope that Tom will given other chances or at least as many as his predecessor in the position, Coates, who's played the grand total of...oh wait no games at all. Guess that's the one chance Sparrow got and he may now fly to greener pastures.
|
|
|
Post by iamstokie on May 8, 2022 12:49:57 GMT
Tbh he looked like he never played it before , the manager just hung him out to dry That's unfair He's impressed people at RWB, posters on here calling for him to be given a go at RWB in the first team Can't have it both ways, either you give youngsters a chance and if they don't play well then that's the risk you take or like a Tony Pulis you don't play them at all I know nothing about tbh , I’m just saying what it looked like to me
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 8, 2022 12:59:46 GMT
We have a better RWB out on loan and we’ve played a midfielder there. I think that sums the farce of MON up. Might well do or not but it's still wrong to say he hung Sparrow out to dry I can’t agree. He didn’t look ready at all. I think he played better there than a Shawcross or Woodgate at right back mind. But he didn’t look comfortable. And I think there’s very good reasons for that.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 8, 2022 13:00:37 GMT
We have a better RWB out on loan and we’ve played a midfielder there. I think that sums the farce of MON up. Who’s that then? Oh hang on, yeah that kid who’s currently playing in the Irish second division. As for Sparrows performance yesterday, I’m sorry but we would have been better off playing captain Jack Sparrow at right wing back. He’s not a right wing back.
|
|
|
Post by bagnallboothen on May 8, 2022 13:00:46 GMT
They are shite. Look at who we signed in January. Add up the cost in fees, agents and wages and compare to results and the rest of the league. Shite is being polite ….and then take away to cost of letting their extremely expensive predecessors leave the club. The players who have come in are roughly the same in ability is the ones who have left. You think they are shit, I’m saying you generally get what you pay for. We pay more than 80% of the league. Look at the figures
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 8, 2022 13:05:40 GMT
….and then take away to cost of letting their extremely expensive predecessors leave the club. The players who have come in are roughly the same in ability is the ones who have left. You think they are shit, I’m saying you generally get what you pay for. We pay more than 80% of the league. Look at the figures That’s just a hangover from overpaying in the first few years after relegation. Are you blaming our current manager for the contracts we were dishing out to the likes of Allen before he even took over? Take a look at next years figures and you will notice a huge difference.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 8, 2022 13:07:31 GMT
Who’s that then? Oh hang on, yeah that kid who’s currently playing in the Irish second division. As for Sparrows performance yesterday, I’m sorry but we would have been better off playing captain Jack Sparrow at right wing back. He’s not a right wing back. What is he then? I feel bad for asking because he’s a young lad starting out, but he was unable to do the basics of football yesterday like control a simple pass. Maybe it was nerves.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 8, 2022 13:08:29 GMT
He’s not a right wing back. What is he then? I feel bad for asking because he’s a young lad starting out, but he was unable to do the basics of football yesterday like control a simple pass. Maybe it was nerves. He’s a central midfielder.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 8, 2022 13:11:42 GMT
What is he then? I feel bad for asking because he’s a young lad starting out, but he was unable to do the basics of football yesterday like control a simple pass. Maybe it was nerves. He’s a central midfielder. I genuinely hope he gets a chance to play in his best position next time then because he was terrible yesterday. He made their number 18 look like Paulo Maldini.
|
|
|
Post by march4 on May 8, 2022 13:12:07 GMT
So out of the players O’Neill brought in: Chester Thompson Brown Fletcher Doughty Fox Mikel Surridge Duhaney Wilmot Vrancic Bonham Jagielka Baker Plus a load of loanees Only Thompson, Jagielka, Wilmot, Brown and Baker are worth keeping. He’s brought in his own deadwood which we now need to get rid of too. (Or have already moved on) Woeful. And for that lot, we sacrificed Collins - one of the brightest prospects the club has produced in years.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 8, 2022 13:15:31 GMT
So out of the players O’Neill brought in: Chester Thompson Brown Fletcher Doughty Fox Mikel Surridge Duhaney Wilmot Vrancic Bonham Jagielka Baker Plus a load of loanees Only Thompson, Jagielka, Wilmot, Brown and Baker are worth keeping. He’s brought in his own deadwood which we now need to get rid of too. (Or have already moved on) Woeful. And for that lot, we sacrificed Collins - one of the brightest prospects the club has produced in years. What a strange thing to say when eight of the players on the list were at the club the season before Collins was sold?
|
|
|
Post by bagnallboothen on May 8, 2022 13:21:44 GMT
We pay more than 80% of the league. Look at the figures That’s just a hangover from overpaying in the first few years after relegation. Are you blaming our current manager for the contracts we were dishing out to the likes of Allen before he even took over? Take a look at next years figures and you will notice a huge difference. I'm blaming our manager for every penny he spent last summer. Surrige, Doherty, Wilmot at a combined cost of over 6m. Surrige accepted at no net cost but hardly an endorsement of his management given his form elsewhere. Add the loan fees for Ostigard, Sima and Sawyers. Probably over 7m quid outlay before we start on signing on fees and agents for the freebies. There's only Sawyers you'd consider keeping. Then add January on top. But we don't spend much money... Who is to blame?
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on May 8, 2022 13:21:49 GMT
He’s a central midfielder. I genuinely hope he gets a chance to play in his best position next time then because he was terrible yesterday. He made their number 18 look like Paulo Maldini. To be fair, their number 18, Ian Maatsen is a decent player. Tough debut all in all and it will stand him in good stead.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 8, 2022 13:29:27 GMT
That’s just a hangover from overpaying in the first few years after relegation. Are you blaming our current manager for the contracts we were dishing out to the likes of Allen before he even took over? Take a look at next years figures and you will notice a huge difference. I'm blaming our manager for every penny he spent last summer. Surrige, Doherty, Wilmot at a combined cost of over 6m. Surrige accepted at no net cost but hardly an endorsement of his management given his form elsewhere. Add the loan fees for Ostigard, Sima and Sawyers. Probably over 7m quid outlay before we start on signing on fees and agents for the freebies. There's only Sawyers you'd consider keeping. Then add January on top. But we don't spend much money... Who is to blame? Wilmot is a decent signing. Surridge didn’t settle and got moved on for what we signed him for, and Doughty joined us as a free agent? £7million outlay? What on earth are you taking about? You’ve not looked at the whole picture and even considered the incoming fee we got for Collins, or for that matter the high cost of paying off wasters like Wimmer, Bauer etc.
|
|
|
Post by bagnallboothen on May 8, 2022 13:36:51 GMT
I'm blaming our manager for every penny he spent last summer. Surrige, Doherty, Wilmot at a combined cost of over 6m. Surrige accepted at no net cost but hardly an endorsement of his management given his form elsewhere. Add the loan fees for Ostigard, Sima and Sawyers. Probably over 7m quid outlay before we start on signing on fees and agents for the freebies. There's only Sawyers you'd consider keeping. Then add January on top. But we don't spend much money... Who is to blame? Wilmot is a decent signing. Surridge didn’t settle and got moved on for what we signed him for, and Doughty joined us as a free agent? £7million outlay? What on earth are you taking about? You’ve not looked at the whole picture and even considered the incoming fee we got for Collins, or for that matter the high cost of paying off wasters like Wimmer, Bauer etc. Yeah you're right. They're that good they've just finished 14th in the Championship. Apologies.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 8, 2022 13:38:46 GMT
I'm blaming our manager for every penny he spent last summer. Surrige, Doherty, Wilmot at a combined cost of over 6m. Surrige accepted at no net cost but hardly an endorsement of his management given his form elsewhere. Add the loan fees for Ostigard, Sima and Sawyers. Probably over 7m quid outlay before we start on signing on fees and agents for the freebies. There's only Sawyers you'd consider keeping. Then add January on top. But we don't spend much money... Who is to blame? Wilmot is a decent signing. Surridge didn’t settle and got moved on for what we signed him for, and Doughty joined us as a free agent? £7million outlay? What on earth are you taking about? You’ve not looked at the whole picture and even considered the incoming fee we got for Collins, or for that matter the high cost of paying off wasters like Wimmer, Bauer etc. Doughty was £650k.
|
|
|
Post by Vadiation_Ribe on May 8, 2022 14:21:05 GMT
It's not as straightforward as that. Plenty of those were make-dos until hopefully younger and better were available. That really doesn’t wash when Huddersfield can sign seven players on frees or for nominal fees and finish third. I'm surprised you've used someone's one-off season as an example. It just happens to have come together for Huddersfield this season, after nearly being relegated in the previous two seasons. There will pretty much always be at least one example we should be doing better than, especially in the Championship - last season it was Barnsley, and now they're a League One club. Even in our Championship promotion season, we should arguably have beaten West Brom to the title. It hasn't come together for us this season, and yes, that's partly O'Neill's fault and we should have done better despite the injuries.
|
|
|
Post by Vadiation_Ribe on May 8, 2022 14:23:33 GMT
It's not as straightforward as that. Plenty of those were make-dos until hopefully younger and better were available. And none of them have been disastrous signings in my opinion. Chester was good at first but has been poor this season. Fox has been mostly injured, Fletcher often too. I was illustrating the high number of players O’Neill has brought in, and yet we are still seeing no real improvement. I’m not wholly convinced by these ‘injuries’ either, I think that some players just didn’t want to come here (loanees). The make do and mend way of running the club needs to end and some proper stability bringing to the squad. Maybe that way of doing things is typical or are we different in that regard? It's typical as far as I know, although I far from study every club's signings. I mentioned in another thread recently that Pulis signed about 10 players in our promotion season that were all key players in our promotion.
|
|
|
Post by a on May 8, 2022 14:26:24 GMT
I was illustrating the high number of players O’Neill has brought in, and yet we are still seeing no real improvement. I’m not wholly convinced by these ‘injuries’ either, I think that some players just didn’t want to come here (loanees). The make do and mend way of running the club needs to end and some proper stability bringing to the squad. Maybe that way of doing things is typical or are we different in that regard? It's typical as far as I know, although I far from study every club's signings. I mentioned in another thread recently that Pulis signed about 10 players in our promotion season that were all key players in our promotion. Maybe it is then, but it’s getting the right players in to play a system, we seem to chop and change all the time so nobody knows if they’re coming or going. Formations/team selections are a lottery most weeks
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 8, 2022 14:29:48 GMT
That really doesn’t wash when Huddersfield can sign seven players on frees or for nominal fees and finish third. I'm surprised you've used someone's one-off season as an example. It just happens to have come together for Huddersfield this season, after nearly being relegated in the previous two seasons. There will pretty much always be at least one example we should be doing better than, especially in the Championship - last season it was Barnsley, and now they're a League One club. Even in our Championship promotion season, we should arguably have beaten West Brom to the title. It hasn't come together for us this season, and yes, that's partly O'Neill's fault and we should have done better despite the injuries. Things rarely just ‘come together’ out of nowhere though, that’s my point. To dismiss the savvy recruitment in terms of managers and players that achieved that, given our failures in those areas, seems almost wilfully burying your head in the sand.
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on May 8, 2022 15:18:47 GMT
I'm blaming our manager for every penny he spent last summer. Surrige, Doherty, Wilmot at a combined cost of over 6m. Surrige accepted at no net cost but hardly an endorsement of his management given his form elsewhere. Add the loan fees for Ostigard, Sima and Sawyers. Probably over 7m quid outlay before we start on signing on fees and agents for the freebies. There's only Sawyers you'd consider keeping. Then add January on top. But we don't spend much money... Who is to blame? Wilmot is a decent signing. Surridge didn’t settle and got moved on for what we signed him for, and Doughty joined us as a free agent? £7million outlay? What on earth are you taking about? You’ve not looked at the whole picture and even considered the incoming fee we got for Collins, or for that matter the high cost of paying off wasters like Wimmer, Bauer etc. We sold him for less than what we signed him for.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on May 8, 2022 15:31:56 GMT
Wilmot is a decent signing. Surridge didn’t settle and got moved on for what we signed him for, and Doughty joined us as a free agent? £7million outlay? What on earth are you taking about? You’ve not looked at the whole picture and even considered the incoming fee we got for Collins, or for that matter the high cost of paying off wasters like Wimmer, Bauer etc. We sold him for less than what we signed him for. Yes but only by £300k
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 8, 2022 15:35:33 GMT
We sold him for less than what we signed him for. Yes but only by £300k I don’t think any of us know the exact figures do we? Broadly speaking we cut our losses and sold him for roughly the same as we paid.
|
|
|
Post by kjpt140v on May 8, 2022 15:59:01 GMT
Joe Allen - I'd like him to stay but I think he will go. Steven Fletcher - I'd like him to stay unless we can sign a skilled tall forward, or keep Afobe. Tommy Smith - keep him but need to sort the position out. James Chester - He will go and I wish him well. Phil Jagielka - Already signed for six months Souttar - Could well go if we get a big offer, hope he stays. Mario Vrancic - Keep but he needs to find his early form Nick Powell - Sadly I think he will go
Clucas - I think he will be given a free. He's done OK for us over the seasons Afobe- sadly I think he will go. Fox - At the end of the road with Stoke
I don't expect we will sign any if the loanees.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on May 8, 2022 16:05:01 GMT
Joe Allen - I'd like him to stay but I think he will go. Steven Fletcher - I'd like him to stay unless we can sign a skilled tall forward, or keep Afobe. Tommy Smith - keep him but need to sort the position out. James Chester - He will go and I wish him well. Phil Jagielka - Already signed for six months Souttar - Could well go if we get a big offer, hope he stays. Mario Vrancic - Keep but he needs to find his early form Nick Powell - Sadly I think he will go Clucas - I think he will be given a free. He's done OK for us over the seasons Afobe- sadly I think he will go. Fox - At the end of the road with Stoke I don't expect we will sign any if the loanees. Fletcher Smith have already left as had Chester Allen appears almost certainly to leave Afobe has another year of his big contract so highly unlikely to be sold, another loan out presumably Fox and Clucas have another year
|
|
|
Post by lordb on May 8, 2022 16:05:58 GMT
I don’t think any of us know the exact figures do we? Broadly speaking we cut our losses and sold him for roughly the same as we paid. Thought the Sentinel confirmed it? But yes £300k or so is diddle
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on May 8, 2022 16:08:06 GMT
The interesting remaining one is Vrancic.
All the others look very likely to go.
Powell could yet be an interesting one as well, who knows?
|
|