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Post by theonlooker on May 8, 2022 10:27:02 GMT
With regards to the transfers I'm not sure on what the real issue is?
I criticised the decision to sell Surridge so soon after buying him, and also to loan out Doughty - however, if you look at the process from a higher level the logic is strong.
We pay modest fees for players aged 24 and under. We only give out 12 month deals plus an option for players over 30 and we try and get the best young loan players we can to subsidise, all whilst trying to bed in as many of our own youngsters as possible.
All this is a process that has never existed before at this club (embarrassing) and it's all been designed by this manager, which is an issue in itself.
The successes of individuals recruited may be hit and miss and it may improve over time as components of the process are polished up and improved but surely the basic logic is sound here and can only stand us in good stead?
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 8, 2022 10:27:44 GMT
The manager called the deals we made in January “expensive” How much money did they cost us? So the manager is a liar then?
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 8, 2022 10:29:02 GMT
I like THB and JPB but have they improved us? I don’t think they have. JPB is another who was underused or not fancied, why bloody bring them in then not use them? He got injured tbf. But after the initial shock of him, I think teams sussed him. Would have been interesting to see if he could have found new ways to get back to the level he started at.
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Post by mickstupp on May 8, 2022 10:29:29 GMT
Who in that list has been a poor signing? Or not represented good value for money? Doughty at the moment, but he cost £600k and is young enough to improve. Surridge didn’t settle and we got our money back. Fox is a bit meh but he was a free transfer. Who else? Chester, Fox, Mikel, Duhaney weren’t fit for the purpose we signed them for - doesn’t matter if they were free, we have precious little room to manoeuvre and they haven’t contributed what was required. Doughty is currently looking like a bust too but we shouldn’t give up on him yet. The question is whether the manager has. Getting our money back on Surridge doesn’t really excuse identifying and spending a fair chunk of change on someone who again couldn’t do what we needed him to. Chester has been a decent signing all things considered. He was part of a decent defensive unit last season that kept 23 clean sheets. He gets an unacceptable amount of abuse on here in my opinion. He made his final appearance yesterday, got booed onto the pitch and saved us a point with a goal line clearance. Really harsh treatment. Mikel was also a good signing, no issue at all with him last season, why wasn’t he “fit for purpose”?
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Post by bagnallboothen on May 8, 2022 10:31:20 GMT
So why are you defending shite signings by a shite manager. He admitted himself a matter of weeks ago he shuffled the pack in Jan and it had no effect on the team. How many more goes does he get at reshuffling under whatever budget before everyone realises it won't work? I’m saying they aren’t “shite” signings. If you take into account the money they have cost compared to the players they have replaced, they have done adequate jobs generally. They are shite. Look at who we signed in January. Add up the cost in fees, agents and wages and compare to results and the rest of the league. Shite is being polite
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Post by mickstupp on May 8, 2022 10:31:33 GMT
How much money did they cost us? So the manager is a liar then? How much money did they cost us?
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 8, 2022 10:31:34 GMT
Chester, Fox, Mikel, Duhaney weren’t fit for the purpose we signed them for - doesn’t matter if they were free, we have precious little room to manoeuvre and they haven’t contributed what was required. Doughty is currently looking like a bust too but we shouldn’t give up on him yet. The question is whether the manager has. Getting our money back on Surridge doesn’t really excuse identifying and spending a fair chunk of change on someone who again couldn’t do what we needed him to. Chester has been a decent signing all things considered. He was part of a decent defensive unit last season that kept 23 clean sheets. He gets an unacceptable amount of abuse on here in my opinion. He made his final appearance yesterday, got booed onto the pitch and saved us a point with a goal line clearance. Really harsh treatment. He’s been gash start to finish. The booing restored a bit of faith for me. Indeed the general willingness of people around to openly call for MON to go too. People aren’t happy.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 8, 2022 10:32:18 GMT
So the manager is a liar then? How much money did they cost us? No idea. The manager called them expensive. The loans are top end loans so I would imagine they cost us a fair bit.
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Post by mickstupp on May 8, 2022 10:33:39 GMT
I’m saying they aren’t “shite” signings. If you take into account the money they have cost compared to the players they have replaced, they have done adequate jobs generally. They are shite. Look at who we signed in January. Add up the cost in fees, agents and wages and compare to results and the rest of the league. Shite is being polite ….and then take away to cost of letting their extremely expensive predecessors leave the club. The players who have come in are roughly the same in ability is the ones who have left. You think they are shit, I’m saying you generally get what you pay for.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 8, 2022 10:34:37 GMT
They are shite. Look at who we signed in January. Add up the cost in fees, agents and wages and compare to results and the rest of the league. Shite is being polite ….and then take away to cost of letting their extremely expensive predecessors leave the club. The players who have come in our roughly the same in ability is the ones who have left. You think they are shit, I’m saying you generally get why you pay for. We've had this discussion before though. Nobody is spending in this division, and lots of our fellow non-spenders are doing much better in creating a functioning team than us
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on May 8, 2022 10:36:24 GMT
So out of the players O’Neill brought in: Chester Thompson Brown Fletcher Doughty Fox Mikel Surridge Duhaney Wilmot Vrancic Bonham Jagielka Baker Plus a load of loanees Only Thompson, Jagielka, Wilmot, Brown and Baker are worth keeping. He’s brought in his own deadwood which we now need to get rid of too. (Or have already moved on) Woeful. It's not as straightforward as that. Plenty of those were make-dos until hopefully younger and better were available. And none of them have been disastrous signings in my opinion. Chester was good at first but has been poor this season. Fox has been mostly injured, Fletcher often too.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 8, 2022 10:37:25 GMT
Chester, Fox, Mikel, Duhaney weren’t fit for the purpose we signed them for - doesn’t matter if they were free, we have precious little room to manoeuvre and they haven’t contributed what was required. Doughty is currently looking like a bust too but we shouldn’t give up on him yet. The question is whether the manager has. Getting our money back on Surridge doesn’t really excuse identifying and spending a fair chunk of change on someone who again couldn’t do what we needed him to. Chester has been a decent signing all things considered. He was part of a decent defensive unit last season that kept 23 clean sheets. He gets an unacceptable amount of abuse on here in my opinion. He made his final appearance yesterday, got booed onto the pitch and saved us a point with a goal line clearance. Really harsh treatment. Mikel was also a good signing, no issue at all with him last season, why wasn’t he “fit for purpose”? Can’t agree at all about Chester. Mikel wasn’t fit for purpose because he didn’t play as a DM. He had zero physicality, players went past him easily and when him and Allen were in the same midfield we were absolutely wide open.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 8, 2022 10:38:26 GMT
So out of the players O’Neill brought in: Chester Thompson Brown Fletcher Doughty Fox Mikel Surridge Duhaney Wilmot Vrancic Bonham Jagielka Baker Plus a load of loanees Only Thompson, Jagielka, Wilmot, Brown and Baker are worth keeping. He’s brought in his own deadwood which we now need to get rid of too. (Or have already moved on) Woeful. It's not as straightforward as that. Plenty of those were make-dos until hopefully younger and better were available. That really doesn’t wash when Huddersfield can sign seven players on frees or for nominal fees and finish third.
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Post by mickstupp on May 8, 2022 10:39:30 GMT
….and then take away to cost of letting their extremely expensive predecessors leave the club. The players who have come in our roughly the same in ability is the ones who have left. You think they are shit, I’m saying you generally get why you pay for. We've had this discussion before though. Nobody is spending in this division, and lots of our fellow non-spenders are doing much better in creating a functioning team than us It’s league of very fine margins. Everyone is disappointed and I understand and share that disappointment.
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Post by a on May 8, 2022 10:43:32 GMT
JPB is another who was underused or not fancied, why bloody bring them in then not use them? Injured Another injured player bloodyhell
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Post by mickstupp on May 8, 2022 10:44:05 GMT
Chester has been a decent signing all things considered. He was part of a decent defensive unit last season that kept 23 clean sheets. He gets an unacceptable amount of abuse on here in my opinion. He made his final appearance yesterday, got booed onto the pitch and saved us a point with a goal line clearance. Really harsh treatment. Mikel was also a good signing, no issue at all with him last season, why wasn’t he “fit for purpose”? Can’t agree at all about Chester. Mikel wasn’t fit for purpose because he didn’t play as a DM. He had zero physicality, players went past him easily and when him and Allen were in the same midfield we were absolutely wide open. It’s a miracle we broke a club record of clean sheets with two such poor players at the heart of our defence and midfield. They have both been good signings for the cost and overall contributions they have made.
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Post by a on May 8, 2022 10:49:21 GMT
So out of the players O’Neill brought in: Chester Thompson Brown Fletcher Doughty Fox Mikel Surridge Duhaney Wilmot Vrancic Bonham Jagielka Baker Plus a load of loanees Only Thompson, Jagielka, Wilmot, Brown and Baker are worth keeping. He’s brought in his own deadwood which we now need to get rid of too. (Or have already moved on) Woeful. It's not as straightforward as that. Plenty of those were make-dos until hopefully younger and better were available. And none of them have been disastrous signings in my opinion. Chester was good at first but has been poor this season. Fox has been mostly injured, Fletcher often too. I was illustrating the high number of players O’Neill has brought in, and yet we are still seeing no real improvement. I’m not wholly convinced by these ‘injuries’ either, I think that some players just didn’t want to come here (loanees). The make do and mend way of running the club needs to end and some proper stability bringing to the squad. Maybe that way of doing things is typical or are we different in that regard?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 8, 2022 10:59:54 GMT
Can’t agree at all about Chester. Mikel wasn’t fit for purpose because he didn’t play as a DM. He had zero physicality, players went past him easily and when him and Allen were in the same midfield we were absolutely wide open. It’s a miracle we broke a club record of clean sheets with two such poor players at the heart of our defence and midfield. They have both been good signings for the cost and overall contributions they have made. It isn't really given that we set up pretty defensively and those players only featured in around half of those games. Mikel didn't feature at all in our run of clean sheets around Christmas time and that run abruptly ended when he returned to the side. Chester actually played pretty well in those games, fair's fair. Overall in my opinion though he's been poor during his time here.
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Post by ravey123 on May 8, 2022 11:03:25 GMT
I wish Matondo had come back this season. I thought he looked good in his last few games and he’s followed it up with a good year at Brugge. Sima and Clarke both had injury problems so they are difficult to judge. Matondo was underused I thought. Sima has been playing u23s for months. Edit: Sima was in the u23s in Feb…. You can almost guarantee that Sima will go somewhere else on loan next season and absolutely smash it
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Post by a on May 8, 2022 11:06:19 GMT
Matondo was underused I thought. Sima has been playing u23s for months. Edit: Sima was in the u23s in Feb…. You can almost guarantee that Sima will go somewhere else on loan next season and absolutely smash it Probably! Played well in the u23s which is why his omission is all the more strange. He played at the end of Feb, so why he couldn’t get a game in the first team after weeks and weeks of u23s is very strange.
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Post by nottsover60 on May 8, 2022 11:19:11 GMT
I like THB and JPB but have they improved us? I don’t think they have. JPB is another who was underused or not fancied, why bloody bring them in then not use them? Perhaps his heart wasn't really in it? I always wonder with persistent niggling injuries which seem to clear up and then reappear, how much is physical and how much is mental. Holden made reference to JPB having an unhappy time here but hoped he'd look back more positively on his time here later in his career and I got the impression he wasn't just talking injuries.
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Post by a on May 8, 2022 11:21:14 GMT
JPB is another who was underused or not fancied, why bloody bring them in then not use them? Perhaps his heart wasn't really in it? I always wonder with persistent niggling injuries which seem to clear up and then reappear, how much is physical and how much is mental. Holden made reference to JPB having an unhappy time here but hoped he'd look back more positively on his time here later in his career and I got the impression he wasn't just talking injuries. I’m sure of it. It’s only my gut feeling but our loan players seem to be injured quite regularly, with exception to THB, who seems to buy in more. Sima, Matondo, Clarke, JPB….
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Post by nottsover60 on May 8, 2022 11:30:15 GMT
Perhaps his heart wasn't really in it? I always wonder with persistent niggling injuries which seem to clear up and then reappear, how much is physical and how much is mental. Holden made reference to JPB having an unhappy time here but hoped he'd look back more positively on his time here later in his career and I got the impression he wasn't just talking injuries. I’m sure of it. It’s only my gut feeling but our loan players seem to be injured quite regularly, with exception to THB, who seems to buy in more. Sima, Matondo, Clarke, JPB…. And yet we keep hearing how our dressing room is really welcoming and helpful to newcomers. I do think that creative players like JPB, Sima and Matondo who haven't played in the Championship find it a difficult division as it is very physical and referees and linesmen give them very little protection. Yesterday, for example, at one point Brown was being held back with an arm around his neck right in front of the linesman who apparently saw nothing wrong in that. Contrast that with the little I have seen of U23 matches(highlights only) where there seems to very little physical contact in those games.
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Post by lordb on May 8, 2022 11:43:41 GMT
How much money did they cost us? So the manager is a liar then? They all are
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Post by a on May 8, 2022 11:47:28 GMT
I’m sure of it. It’s only my gut feeling but our loan players seem to be injured quite regularly, with exception to THB, who seems to buy in more. Sima, Matondo, Clarke, JPB…. And yet we keep hearing how our dressing room is really welcoming and helpful to newcomers. I do think that creative players like JPB, Sima and Matondo who haven't played in the Championship find it a difficult division as it is very physical and referees and linesmen give them very little protection. Yesterday, for example, at one point Brown was being held back with an arm around his neck right in front of the linesman who apparently saw nothing wrong in that. Contrast that with the little I have seen of U23 matches(highlights only) where there seems to very little physical contact in those games. It’s a bit odd. I mean we could be wrong and they’ve just been really unlucky with injuries, but that would be a bit of a coincidence
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Post by iamstokie on May 8, 2022 12:26:59 GMT
Re Sparrow, he’s been playing right wing back for 6 months. He’s a midfielder. Tbh he looked like he never played it before , the manager just hung him out to dry
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Post by wakeypotter on May 8, 2022 12:29:36 GMT
Chester, Fox, Mikel, Duhaney weren’t fit for the purpose we signed them for - doesn’t matter if they were free, we have precious little room to manoeuvre and they haven’t contributed what was required. Doughty is currently looking like a bust too but we shouldn’t give up on him yet. The question is whether the manager has. Getting our money back on Surridge doesn’t really excuse identifying and spending a fair chunk of change on someone who again couldn’t do what we needed him to. Chester has been a decent signing all things considered. He was part of a decent defensive unit last season that kept 23 clean sheets. He gets an unacceptable amount of abuse on here in my opinion. He made his final appearance yesterday, got booed onto the pitch and saved us a point with a goal line clearance. Really harsh treatment. Mikel was also a good signing, no issue at all with him last season, why wasn’t he “fit for purpose”? I didn’t go yesterday mick, personally I think Chester hasn’t been a good signing but do agree with you regards he has played well at times, but those so called fans who booed him onto the field should hang there heads in shame. To single a player out is just wrong. Like I said I’m not a fan of his and when he’s selected to play it’s not his fault it’s mons fault.
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Post by lordb on May 8, 2022 12:31:21 GMT
Re Sparrow, he’s been playing right wing back for 6 months. He’s a midfielder. Tbh he looked like he never played it before , the manager just hung him out to dry That's unfair He's impressed people at RWB, posters on here calling for him to be given a go at RWB in the first team Can't have it both ways, either you give youngsters a chance and if they don't play well then that's the risk you take or like a Tony Pulis you don't play them at all
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 8, 2022 12:38:10 GMT
Tbh he looked like he never played it before , the manager just hung him out to dry That's unfair He's impressed people at RWB, posters on here calling for him to be given a go at RWB in the first team Can't have it both ways, either you give youngsters a chance and if they don't play well then that's the risk you take or like a Tony Pulis you don't play them at all We have a better RWB out on loan and we’ve played a midfielder there. I think that sums the farce of MON up.
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Post by mickstupp on May 8, 2022 12:42:10 GMT
Chester has been a decent signing all things considered. He was part of a decent defensive unit last season that kept 23 clean sheets. He gets an unacceptable amount of abuse on here in my opinion. He made his final appearance yesterday, got booed onto the pitch and saved us a point with a goal line clearance. Really harsh treatment. Mikel was also a good signing, no issue at all with him last season, why wasn’t he “fit for purpose”? I didn’t go yesterday mick, personally I think Chester hasn’t been a good signing but do agree with you regards he has played well at times, but those so called fans who booed him onto the field should hang there heads in shame. To single a player out is just wrong. Like I said I’m not a fan of his and when he’s selected to play it’s not his fault it’s mons fault. One or two have had the knives out for him from day one wakey. I can’t say I’m a huge fan either but he’s been fine for a free transfer. I wish him well.
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