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Post by spiderpuss on Apr 13, 2022 20:12:44 GMT
Chester and Fletcher can go, think they will too Powell is a must keep there's a case for the other 5 Biscuits Powell who only plays for a 3rd of a season? We can do better imo. We need regular and consistently good.
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Post by Northy on Apr 13, 2022 20:16:20 GMT
Chester and Fletcher can go, think they will too Powell is a must keep there's a case for the other 5 That's 8 isn't it ? Chester Fletcher Powell plus 5 ?
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Post by spiderpuss on Apr 13, 2022 20:16:57 GMT
Unfortunately, Powell has become a luxury we can no longer afford. In what sense? Who else on the books has had the same impact as him since he's been here? He just is always unavailable with one knock or another. Plays a fleeting great game and is then sidelined. Frustrating. On the day he is currently our best player, it's just these days are few and far between. Oh and we've won 3/4 without him. That's a luxury.
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Post by lordb on Apr 13, 2022 20:26:50 GMT
Chester and Fletcher can go, think they will too Powell is a must keep there's a case for the other 5 That's 8 isn't it ? Chester Fletcher Powell plus 5 ? Maths not my strongest subject...
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Post by owdestokie2 on Apr 13, 2022 20:29:38 GMT
Being saying for months this summer and January are massive for the club, it’ll demonstrate whether or not there’s a cunning plan to “really” progress towards promotion.
Don’t forget as discussion points;
1. Etebo and Afobe 2. current loan players leaving/possibly staying 3. the potential return of young loan players returning i.e Taylor
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Post by lordb on Apr 13, 2022 20:33:30 GMT
Being saying for months this summer and January are massive for the club, it’ll demonstrate whether or not there’s a cunning plan to “really” progress towards promotion. Don’t forget as discussion points; 1. Etebo and Afobe 2. current loan players leaving/possibly staying 3. the potential return of young loan players returning i.e Taylor Absolutely no one is going to take Afobe's big wage on so that will be another loan out Etebo presumably another loan Taylor has been very good for Bristol Rovers by all accounts however does he need a loan at League 1 (possibly with them again, they can still go up) or is he ready for the Championship? Would hope Stoke have a real good look at him in pre season Forrester, his time is now
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Post by jaybee on Apr 13, 2022 20:41:16 GMT
Joe Allen - Heard contradicting reports on him, one says he wants to finish his career here and his kids are happy in school the other is he wants to move back nearer to home. Id be tempted to give him a year on very reduced terms His Mrs and kids have already moved to S Wales
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Post by sticky on Apr 13, 2022 20:51:15 GMT
Can’t believe anybody would want Powell to go, he’s a class player!
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Post by Ron on Apr 13, 2022 20:59:29 GMT
I’d keep Allen on the right terms, Powell obviously a Tommy smith who I personally think is under rated - our best football under mon has come with him in the side as rwb. On reduced terms smith is more than adequate at this level.
Jagielka has done enough for a year.
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Post by nonameface on Apr 13, 2022 21:33:06 GMT
Joe Allen - Heard contradicting reports on him, one says he wants to finish his career here and his kids are happy in school the other is he wants to move back nearer to home. Id be tempted to give him a year on very reduced terms His Mrs and kids have already moved to S Wales Where abouts? Mumbles?
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Apr 13, 2022 22:50:23 GMT
Powell, Smith (I think he is already gone), and maybe Vrancic. Jagielka and Allen have been decent the past few weeks, but we need to move on from them.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Apr 13, 2022 23:31:24 GMT
I'd like Powell to stay, but wouldn't lose any sleep over it if he went, as we only get half a season out of him anyhow!!!
I'd keep Allen and Vrancic,
O'Neil will no doubt extend Jagielka's contract for another season....
As for the rest, they can all go!!!
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Post by wearestoke80 on Apr 13, 2022 23:52:21 GMT
Do we think that DWP could become Powell's understudy? and play a more central position? Not a chance for me mate,not physically strong enough and needs more consistency in his game So does Powell
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Post by Sfance on Apr 14, 2022 1:32:08 GMT
What’s the good of keeping someone (Powell) who occasionally plays and who when he plays is occasionally better than most everyone else. Too many occasionallys for a team allegedly interested in promotion.
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Post by jokker on Apr 14, 2022 5:53:11 GMT
This is the second post in the thread which bring up Powell's wages. I don't understand why. His wages are lower than Smith's for instance. I think a major motivation for Nick to be a Stoke player is that he feels he has unfinished business here but also that the manager allows him freedom to play as he so chooses. He might earn more at another club but there would be more stricter demands on him, which he would hate. He's a free spirit. Unfortunately that sometimes is expressed by poor discipline, but mostly it allows him to be the player that makes Stoke tick. Because Smith is (probably) going and if he did stay, it'd be on much-reduced wages. And if we trigger the extension on Powell, he'll be on the same wages he's on now. Given the apparent competition for him that summer, and pre-Covid wage deflation, got to imagine it won't be that far off 20k. Nixon claimed he'd turned down 20k-a-week from Wigan, but take that with a pinch of salt. www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9114001/nick-powell-wigan-cotnract-stoke-wednesday-transfer/So he'd probably be the top earner (besides Afobe and Etebo who'll hopefully clear off anyway) and one of the top earners at any non-parachute Championship club. You'd think we'd do it, but how it'll resolve itself this time next year, especially if has a good season is anyone's guess. I know he's supposedly a Cheshire homebird, but would imagine there could be options for him. It was said to be 16k in an article in footballeagueworld. We don't must trigger his extension. We could just offer him a new contract in the safe knowledge that he actually wants to stay. In his Duck interview he said he had unfinished business at the club and he didn't want to leave until he had finished it. I'm not aware of any definite interest in him, but of course you'd think there'd always be some in a player with his qualities. I just think many clubs regard him with a huge question mark over his injury record, his laidback personality, and his disciplinary record - all of which MO'N has been able to work around to his satisfaction.
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Post by jokker on Apr 14, 2022 5:56:19 GMT
In what sense? Who else on the books has had the same impact as him since he's been here? He just is always unavailable with one knock or another. Plays a fleeting great game and is then sidelined. Frustrating. On the day he is currently our best player, it's just these days are few and far between. Oh and we've won 3/4 without him. That's a luxury. Considering he "is always unavailable" it is remarkable that he's played 84 league games for scfc.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2022 6:01:15 GMT
Powell - Absolutely.
Everyone else - No.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Apr 14, 2022 6:11:48 GMT
Joe Allen - only keep on reduced terms. He and Baker look a great combination. Steven Fletcher - release. Way too injury prone. We need a young mobile target man. Tommy Smith - Give him another year. James Chester - Past it and unlike Jagielka looks poor. Phil Jagielka - another 12 months. The perfect person to nurture our young CBs and can still play the odd game. Mario Vrancic - I like him but to injury prone and getting on a bit. Not bothered either way. Nick Powell - We need to go the extra mile for him.
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Post by Gods on Apr 14, 2022 6:12:58 GMT
Allen yes, Powell yes. Smith yes.
The others are too injury prone or too long on the tooth, or both.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 14, 2022 7:10:28 GMT
In what sense? Who else on the books has had the same impact as him since he's been here? He just is always unavailable with one knock or another. Plays a fleeting great game and is then sidelined. Frustrating. On the day he is currently our best player, it's just these days are few and far between. Oh and we've won 3/4 without him. That's a luxury. And before that we'd won 2 in about 17. He broke his leg this season, the majority of his absence has been connected to that. Last season he missed 7 of 46 games. He's more than 'a fleeting great game', he's our most regular source of goals. If you back the manager to replace that easily enough that we can afford to get rid then I don't know what you're basing it on.
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Post by femark on Apr 14, 2022 7:11:19 GMT
I'd definitely keep Powell, then Jagielka & Smith as back up on 1yr deals.
The rest can go as they either haven't been good enough or we need to try something different.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 14, 2022 7:12:26 GMT
What’s the good of keeping someone (Powell) who occasionally plays and who when he plays is occasionally better than most everyone else. Too many occasionallys for a team allegedly interested in promotion. Just a nonsense. 1 in 2 almost before he broke his leg, top scorer last season, a huge factor in us staying up the season before that.
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Post by LGH87 on Apr 14, 2022 7:31:06 GMT
Fucking gutted, I honestly thought Morgan Fox was out of contract too.
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Post by J-Roar on Apr 14, 2022 7:31:58 GMT
Keep Powell, move the rest on. Time for a new era......... I'd keep Jagielka and Vrancic as well
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Post by theonlooker on Apr 14, 2022 7:46:20 GMT
I'd be tempted to say get rid of the lot, depnding on what the plans are going forward. If the plan is to play a 4231 and build the side around a number ten, then keep Powell and bring in a back up. If the plan is to move to a back three or play a 4-3-3 then i'd move Powell on, and I like Powell...a LOT.
The issue is he doesn't really fit anywhere other than behind a striker and the current manager seems quite cool on that system, often starting the season with something else and switching to 4231 sparingly - which often means Powell is asked to do a job either out wide, up front or more often in midfield which just isn't his game, and as well as he's done there (to his ultimate credit given he's supposedly a mardy flair player that doesn't put it in...) I think it makes the team look awkward.
Given the money he is on it might be better spent on a specialist player that the manager needs in a system he trusts more than the 4231.
Jagielka has done well and he might stay but i'd be tempted to clear the decks and start again - build a side from pretty much the ground up and invest what money we have in as many 24-28 year olds as possible - and supplement them with loans from the PL as we have done thus far, but ultimately bringing down the age gap between the youngest and the oldest.
Allen I think he may try to keep to satisfy his inlking for an experienced player if they can agree terms but think that ship may have already sailed.
He’s still delivered goals even when shunted out of position though and we just can’t afford to lose that without a bona fide alternative talisman. Given this management team’s transfer record can be politely described as ‘uneven’ and we already need 6-7 players, we’d be playing an incredibly dangerous game losing that regular source of goals and creativity. Powell has played well individually wherever he has played and given the shit he gets from the crowd about being idle etc it's to his credit. He's a good footballer at this level. I just think the side looks awkward with him anywhere but floating centrally behind a forward. When in midfield he often gets caught out defensively on the blind side, even though he grafts in there more than people give him credit. He just isn't a natural defensively and is reactive rather than proactive - something you can't afford at this level. The space he gives away is something we wouldn't as a team if we had a proper CM in there, and even though he is no slouch, he doesn't have the mobility of a Baker for example. Would I back the manager to replace him? If the manager backs himself to go 433, 352 or 343 then yes I would as his record with central midfielders is pretty decent all in all, with the one blot on the copy book being Mikel, but even then he did a job to some degree. Thompson has developed nicely, Vrancic was excellent pre injury and Baker has been a revelation. If he goes 4231 then shift heaven and earth to tie Powell down to a new deal and build the side around him and a good understudy. I value talismans in any team but they have to be in their proper positions to give the team balance and give them the absolute best chance of hitting top form more consistently. Powell up front as a target man in a 352, or in a central 3 in a 433 isn't getting the absolute best out of him or the team. It just isn't.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 14, 2022 7:54:51 GMT
He’s still delivered goals even when shunted out of position though and we just can’t afford to lose that without a bona fide alternative talisman. Given this management team’s transfer record can be politely described as ‘uneven’ and we already need 6-7 players, we’d be playing an incredibly dangerous game losing that regular source of goals and creativity. Powell has played well individually wherever he has played and given the shit he gets from the crowd about being idle etc it's to his credit. He's a good footballer at this level. I just think the side looks awkward with him anywhere but floating centrally behind a forward. When in midfield he often gets caught out defensively on the blind side, even though he grafts in there more than people give him credit. He just isn't a natural defensively and is reactive rather than proactive - something you can't afford at this level. The space he gives away is something we wouldn't as a team if we had a proper CM in there, and even though he is no slouch, he doesn't have the mobility of a Baker for example. Would I back the manager to replace him? If the manager backs himself to go 433, 352 or 343 then yes I would as his record with central midfielders is pretty decent all in all, with the one blot on the copy book being Mikel, but even then he did a job to some degree. Thompson has developed nicely, Vrancic was excellent pre injury and Baker has been a revelation. If he goes 4231 then shift heaven and earth to tie Powell down to a new deal and build the side around him and a good understudy. I value talismans in any team but they have to be in their proper positions to give the team balance and give them the absolute best chance of hitting top form more consistently. Powell up front as a target man in a 352, or in a central 3 in a 433 isn't getting the absolute best out of him or the team. It just isn't. Not sure I agree about his record with central midfielders. Baker is a fine player but he's already tinkering with shunting him into a 10 that doesn't suit him. He adored Mikel and saw none of the issues with him that most of us did. He signed Sawyers to play a deeper role that he clearly isn't capable of. He is averse to signing any physicality in that position of the pitch. 352 Powell would be fine as a second striker and that's where most of his early goals and fine performances came earlier in the season. If his plan long term is to play a flat 433 then by all means recruit for that but it'll need to be a transition and binning our talisman is a baby/bathwater job.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 14, 2022 8:03:41 GMT
Allen had been very good of late and works well with Baker. I'd keep but I think he'll go.
Smith has also been good this season but the fact that he has lost his place of late to Wilmott suggests he's off.
If he'll accept a year's contract I'd keep Jagielka - we've got young CBs who would learn a lot from him.
Chester - think his time is up.
Powell - if the terms of any contract extension aren't a problem and he wants to stay I'd keep. However if he were to go I really wouldn't be that bothered. He's great on his day but his day isn't often enough to be the lynch pin so many believe him to be. Bit of a luxury item for me. I have to put my hand up and say my judgement of Powell as a player is probably tarnished by the fact that I don't particularly like his antics on the pitch. But by the same token I think he's overrated by his fan club.
Vrancic - keep. He's been one of our better performers this season - way more consistent than Powell.
Fletcher - not too bothered either way but a bit of experience up front would help.
Moore - if he'll accept a pay cut I'd have him back. Solid Championship CB who we can call on if the youngsters have a wobble.
Sawyers - I don't think we've seen the best of him and would keep but it sounds like Bruce wants him back.
Maja - I think he's shown enough to offer a contract. Still young and looks like he's willing to learn.
JPB, THB and Sima - happy for another loan but I suspect they will all go back.
I'd also shift Clucas, Fox and Duhaney but given the massive turnover they may end up staying just to have some stability.
Huge summer and to have any realistic chance of a promotion challenge the recruitment has to kick in as early as possible.
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Post by blackpoolred on Apr 14, 2022 8:07:17 GMT
Players we should look to be keeping, some of these we need to be looking to improve on if we want to be a top-half team with a chance of challenging for play-offs
Tymon Wilmot Souttar Allen Powell Baker Campbell Brown DWP
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Post by apb1 on Apr 14, 2022 8:10:53 GMT
Powell: move heaven and earth Allen, Jags, Smith - would not have a problem keeping any or all of these. Notable that Smith has 6 assists this season from 26 games, the best in our squad apparently www.whoscored.com/Teams/96/Show/England-StokeVrancic - not sure he's declined a bit in influence. Good set pieces and better at defending than Sawyers (not hard) but always felt like a short-term option. Chester, Fletcher, nope, even if they are really good blokes it's time to get rid. MON seems to love having older players in to 'influence' the others. In Chester's case this is actively harmful! I thought Thompson was also out of contract. I'd let him go to be honest. For every good thing he does, there's a bad one.
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 14, 2022 9:10:19 GMT
Because Smith is (probably) going and if he did stay, it'd be on much-reduced wages. And if we trigger the extension on Powell, he'll be on the same wages he's on now. Given the apparent competition for him that summer, and pre-Covid wage deflation, got to imagine it won't be that far off 20k. Nixon claimed he'd turned down 20k-a-week from Wigan, but take that with a pinch of salt. www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9114001/nick-powell-wigan-cotnract-stoke-wednesday-transfer/So he'd probably be the top earner (besides Afobe and Etebo who'll hopefully clear off anyway) and one of the top earners at any non-parachute Championship club. You'd think we'd do it, but how it'll resolve itself this time next year, especially if has a good season is anyone's guess. I know he's supposedly a Cheshire homebird, but would imagine there could be options for him. It was said to be 16k in an article in footballeagueworld. We don't must trigger his extension. We could just offer him a new contract in the safe knowledge that he actually wants to stay. In his Duck interview he said he had unfinished business at the club and he didn't want to leave until he had finished it. I'm not aware of any definite interest in him, but of course you'd think there'd always be some in a player with his qualities. I just think many clubs regard him with a huge question mark over his injury record, his laidback personality, and his disciplinary record - all of which MO'N has been able to work around to his satisfaction. You never know without getting inside his head, but I'd be surprised if he was wiling to commit to a new long-term deal here this summer at a number we're comfortable with, beyond the year we can trigger on his current terms which will be quite a bit more than anything we'd consider giving him in a new deal you'd think? It's one thing to say something in an interview with a Stoke fan magazine, but he can't be happy with finishing lower mid-table in the Championship. He'll probably give himself the chance of another Bosman deal at the end of the next season, knowing he can extend here as a fallback, based on how things go next season? This next deal will be the last decent one he'll sign, at just turned 28.
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