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Post by mrcoke on Apr 4, 2022 8:36:45 GMT
If we didn't have such antiquated infrastructure we could have double decker carriages similar to several countries. It would ensure more seats are available and move more passengers around. Sadly the cost to change stations, bridges, catenary lines, tunnels, etc makes it impossible. Maybe HS2 should be set up for double decker trains? The loss of lines over the decades and the cost to put most of them back shows the short sighted view all those years ago. Imagine if stoke on trent had kept the loop line and all those mineral lines, we would have an astonishing city wide light rail/tram network and could effectively ditch the bus. I think the young generation today would be amazed at how extensive the North Staffs ("Knotty") rail network was. The 4 tunnels will still be down there for the Stoke to Market Drayton line. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Staffordshire_Railwayen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoke_to_Market_Drayton_LineToo late to change the tunnels for HS2 I think. What people don't appreciate is the problem rail has with fast express trains on twisty lines through built up areas. Operating fast and slow trains on the same route is very inefficient. Doubling the line which HS2 means more than doubling the potential loading on rail for intercity, commuter, and goods traffic. It will be an asset for the next 150 years like the original Victorian lines. |
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Post by dutchstokie on Apr 4, 2022 10:17:56 GMT
Peoples Front of Judea stuff. The Tories must piss themselves laughing at the naivety of non-Tory voters tearing themselves apart time and time again. In a sense, you have to admire the Tories over Brexit. They could see that the issue of Europe was threatening to do to the political right precisely what the non-right has suffered from for years, a fragmented vote. Obviously, the ongoing negative effect that will plague the country as a whole for years didn't matter compared to preserving the unanimity of choice for the right-wing inclined voter. That was the whole point. Cynically party political and nothing really to do with Europe and making the country a better place as is readily obvious, but it's been admirably effective party politically. I'd love a Scandinavian style government. Gosh, perhaps we might even get services and utilities run to benefit people rather than shareholders? First step towards that, I'd suggest, is making yourself electable under our archaic FPTP system designed when we had two parties only, then you can start, hopefully, implementing policies that take you there. No guarantees that they'll do that, of course, but much more chance of it happening than never getting into power! Scandinavian style government? Jesus wept.... I dont understand ......whats wrong with a Scandinavian style government? |
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Post by felonious on Apr 4, 2022 10:42:04 GMT
If we didn't have such antiquated infrastructure we could have double decker carriages similar to several countries. It would ensure more seats are available and move more passengers around. Sadly the cost to change stations, bridges, catenary lines, tunnels, etc makes it impossible. Maybe HS2 should be set up for double decker trains? The loss of lines over the decades and the cost to put most of them back shows the short sighted view all those years ago. Imagine if stoke on trent had kept the loop line and all those mineral lines, we would have an astonishing city wide light rail/tram network and could effectively ditch the bus. I think the young generation today would be amazed at how extensive the North Staffs ("Knotty") rail network was. The 4 tunnels will still be down there for the Stoke to Market Drayton line. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Staffordshire_Railwayen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoke_to_Market_Drayton_LineToo late to change the tunnels for HS2 I think. What people don't appreciate is the problem rail has with fast express trains on twisty lines through built up areas. Operating fast and slow trains on the same route is very inefficient. Doubling the line which HS2 means more than doubling the potential loading on rail for intercity, commuter, and goods traffic. It will be an asset for the next 150 years like the original Victorian lines. There's one which runs from Silverdale to Keele, at the top end of the Wammy Parkrun route. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Apr 4, 2022 10:45:34 GMT
Scandinavian style government? Jesus wept.... I dont understand ......whats wrong with a Scandinavian style government? Me neither, given that those countries routinely come top of surveys of well-being, public service provision and overall public satisfaction. While everything we've done since about the mid 2000s appears to be taking us in the opposite direction on those fronts. |
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Post by mrcoke on Apr 4, 2022 11:04:32 GMT
There's one which runs from Silverdale to Keele, at the top end of the Wammy Parkrun route. I think it is on the video above |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Apr 4, 2022 12:08:42 GMT
I dont understand ......whats wrong with a Scandinavian style government? Me neither, given that those countries routinely come top of surveys of well-being, public service provision and overall public satisfaction. While everything we've done since about the mid 2000s appears to be taking us in the opposite direction on those fronts. I'm surprised you don't. The Labour manifestos of 2017 and 2019 were precisely that. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Apr 4, 2022 13:09:02 GMT
Me neither, given that those countries routinely come top of surveys of well-being, public service provision and overall public satisfaction. While everything we've done since about the mid 2000s appears to be taking us in the opposite direction on those fronts. I'm surprised you don't. The Labour manifestos of 2017 and 2019 were precisely that. As I keep saying, it helps if you can get elected first...  |
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Apr 4, 2022 15:57:58 GMT
One of the issues with the privatised rail network is apportioning blame in the event of delays etc. Take for example the derailment of a passenger train at Great Yarmouth back in 2001 (no injuries), but impacting all except one platform. On the nationalised railway there would be an immediate response to rerail the locomotive repair the track and clear the incident. Not in 2001. The track was rotten, but the contractor responsible for maintaining it refused to accept the blame, as did Railtrack, so the arbitrator (AEA Technology) had to be called in . Unfortunately their staff were all in Glasgow dealing with another incident. They arrived 9 hours after the incident and confirmed the track was defective. There have been changes to reduce/ control the involvement of contractors in maintaining the track since then, but the fact remains that the fragmentation of rail adds to its complexity and cost. The pandemic has had a massive impact but even before then the DFT was paying private Train Operating Companies for any shortfalls in predicted revenue. When the British Railways starts (the 'Great' prefix being applied is just typical Johnsonian bullshit) the arrangements with the operating companies will change again. Not sure that is right about the DFT it might apply to some non commercial routes or after a number of years if they are significantly below predicted revenue but generally the operating companies make a net contribution to government last figure I remember was around 2 billion per year. 2018-19 (pre-Pandemic) shows a net subsidy of £400 million to the TOC.s as part of the £7billion net support dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/1547/rail-finance-statistical-release-2018-19.pdf |
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Post by followyoudown on Apr 5, 2022 9:27:20 GMT
Not sure that is right about the DFT it might apply to some non commercial routes or after a number of years if they are significantly below predicted revenue but generally the operating companies make a net contribution to government last figure I remember was around 2 billion per year. 2018-19 (pre-Pandemic) shows a net subsidy of £400 million to the TOC.s as part of the £7billion net support dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/1547/rail-finance-statistical-release-2018-19.pdfThanks for that only had time to skim read as its year end but on one page it said the majority of TOCs made net franchise payments to the government including some profit share only one received a smallish amount for passenger numbers being lower and this was the first year tocs didnt make a net support paymemt not sure if it was to do with the east coast franchise support failing. I think I had a similar conversation years ago might even have been with you but this talk of net support includes the cost of maintaining the network which is a bit misleading we dont talk of the money spent on roads as being support for tesco / amazon, the majority of tocs make franchise payments to the government as well as pay track access fees for using the lines and electricity etc |
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Post by dutchstokie on Apr 5, 2022 9:30:22 GMT
Me neither, given that those countries routinely come top of surveys of well-being, public service provision and overall public satisfaction. While everything we've done since about the mid 2000s appears to be taking us in the opposite direction on those fronts. I'm surprised you don't. The Labour manifestos of 2017 and 2019 were precisely that. Sorry mate Im still none the wiser......I havent and wouldnt read the labour manifestos. Again - why would it be a bad thing? |
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Post by toppercorner on Apr 5, 2022 9:59:52 GMT
If we didn't have such antiquated infrastructure we could have double decker carriages similar to several countries. It would ensure more seats are available and move more passengers around. Sadly the cost to change stations, bridges, catenary lines, tunnels, etc makes it impossible. Maybe HS2 should be set up for double decker trains? The loss of lines over the decades and the cost to put most of them back shows the short sighted view all those years ago. Imagine if stoke on trent had kept the loop line and all those mineral lines, we would have an astonishing city wide light rail/tram network and could effectively ditch the bus. I think the young generation today would be amazed at how extensive the North Staffs ("Knotty") rail network was. The 4 tunnels will still be down there for the Stoke to Market Drayton line. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Staffordshire_Railwayen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoke_to_Market_Drayton_LineToo late to change the tunnels for HS2 I think. What people don't appreciate is the problem rail has with fast express trains on twisty lines through built up areas. Operating fast and slow trains on the same route is very inefficient. Doubling the line which HS2 means more than doubling the potential loading on rail for intercity, commuter, and goods traffic. It will be an asset for the next 150 years like the original Victorian lines. I genuinely had no idea about these. I'm being optimistic/ambitious/a bit daydream-y, but could they be re-utilised for public transport in the city again? (not for HS2) |
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Apr 7, 2022 19:22:42 GMT
Thanks for that only had time to skim read as its year end but on one page it said the majority of TOCs made net franchise payments to the government including some profit share only one received a smallish amount for passenger numbers being lower and this was the first year tocs didnt make a net support paymemt not sure if it was to do with the east coast franchise support failing. I think I had a similar conversation years ago might even have been with you but this talk of net support includes the cost of maintaining the network which is a bit misleading we dont talk of the money spent on roads as being support for tesco / amazon, the majority of tocs make franchise payments to the government as well as pay track access fees for using the lines and electricity etc My reading of it is the figure of net support is not the cost of maintaining the network -see figure 1.2 . The cost of maintaining the network is the Direct Rail Support grant to Network Rail (£3.9 billion in 2018-19). The £400 million in 'central government grants' in that year are covered by the note to the chart " Where central government grants are positive, government subsidies to TOCs outweigh TOC premium payments to government. Where central government grants are negative, TOC premium payments outweigh government subsidies." 2018-19 is the first year since 2009-10 where this has been positive Figure 2.1 covers the net support figures you're referring to , where an estimate of the Direct Rail Support grant is apportioned to each operator. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 7, 2022 19:27:42 GMT
I'm surprised you don't. The Labour manifestos of 2017 and 2019 were precisely that. Sorry mate Im still none the wiser......I havent and wouldnt read the labour manifestos. Again - why would it be a bad thing? It’s taking a very long time to get a Twitter post related to this subject. Stand down for now😉 |
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Post by dutchstokie on Apr 7, 2022 19:30:16 GMT
Sorry mate Im still none the wiser......I havent and wouldnt read the labour manifestos. Again - why would it be a bad thing? It’s taking a very long time to get a Twitter post related to this subject. Stand down for now😉 Cut and paste Twitter incoming…… 🙄🤣 |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 7, 2022 19:31:14 GMT
It’s taking a very long time to get a Twitter post related to this subject. Stand down for now😉 Cut and paste Twitter incoming…… 🙄🤣 It’s basically a full time job😉 |
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Post by partickpotter on May 2, 2022 17:22:15 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on May 13, 2022 6:54:28 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 13, 2022 9:41:03 GMT
Will of the people to nationalise the railways in Scotland, wasn't it? Accept the decision. Stop whining about it. Etc.  |
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Post by partickpotter on May 19, 2022 21:13:43 GMT
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