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Post by madnellie on Jun 26, 2024 1:34:46 GMT
The biggest disappointment so far for me has been Bellingham because apart from the first half against Serbia I think he’s been very poor since I think part of the problem is Foden not being disciplined enough to stay out on the left (goodness knows why Southgate keeps persisting with him there, it's a waste of his talents) and he just gets in Bellingham's way. Basically Gareth's crap tactics ruining our two best players. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Jun 26, 2024 2:39:59 GMT
Direct replacement Watkins for Kane But that wouldn't answer my question. He said he wanted to bring on two players but only suggested one player going off. I asked him who the other player going off should be and you suggested Kane. Ergo at that point, we already have eleven players on the pitch and have no room for Watkins. OK well for me at HT I’d have gone Gallagher off Palmer on and push Bellingham back and move Foden central Kane off and Watkins on That said Mainoo on for Gallagher improved us and he looked excellent that said only when Palmer came on did we look more threatening. Both simply have to start next game. If we’re going to go 4231 the 3 has to be Gordon Foden Palmer even if it means pushing Bellingham back or even dropping him as he’s been poor for 2 and a half games now. With Kane not sure what to do as he’s a class player but he’s just not been involved so I’m not sure if it’s a supply thing or if his lack of pace is the bigger factor. |
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Post by essexstokey on Jun 26, 2024 3:00:00 GMT
Terrible we need a new manager who knows how to harness all the exceptional talent we have and not be afraid to drop players if they don't perform
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 26, 2024 3:08:59 GMT
But that wouldn't answer my question. He said he wanted to bring on two players but only suggested one player going off. I asked him who the other player going off should be and you suggested Kane. Ergo at that point, we already have eleven players on the pitch and have no room for Watkins. OK well for me at HT I’d have gone Gallagher off Palmer on and push Bellingham back and move Foden central Kane off and Watkins on That said Mainoo on for Gallagher improved us and he looked excellent that said only when Palmer came on did we look more threatening. Both simply have to start next game. If we’re going to go 4231 the 3 has to be Gordon Foden Palmer even if it means pushing Bellingham back or even dropping him as he’s been poor for 2 and a half games now. With Kane not sure what to do as he’s a class player but he’s just not been involved so I’m not sure if it’s a supply thing or if his lack of pace is the bigger factor.
And that would mean dropping Rice then?
There isn't actually an option of 'pushing Bellingham back' unless you do that, is there?
Gordon------Foden------Palmer --------Mainoo------Rice----------
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England
Jun 26, 2024 4:43:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by biddulphchav on Jun 26, 2024 4:43:32 GMT
Maybe clutching at straws here but seen a few tournaments where good sides have started slowly but then kicked into gear in the knockout stages. Italy seem to have done that a fair few times, same with Portugal. We’ve not played anywhere near what this collection of players can do, so plenty to come if we can get it right, and we’ve managed to top our group……
Fingers crossed, but please, no more Gallagher
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Post by adri2008 on Jun 26, 2024 5:53:45 GMT
Maybe clutching at straws here but seen a few tournaments where good sides have started slowly but then kicked into gear in the knockout stages. Italy seem to have done that a fair few times, same with Portugal. We’ve not played anywhere near what this collection of players can do, so plenty to come if we can get it right, and we’ve managed to top our group…… Fingers crossed, but please, no more Gallagher Italy never seem to look that good imo but progress anyway. Massive over reaction to the result last night, when have England ever breezed past any opposition? - can't think of many games where we have put so called lesser opposition to the sword. Yes its been a slog so far but for me that second half was loads better, the attackers finally seemed to be clicking despite Kane/Bellingham looking quite peripheral. We've got to get Palmer in the team though and I guess it's going to have to be for Saka which is harsh on him unless you go down the crazy route of putting Saka at LB which the 'expert' pundits (Wright/Neville etc) are calling for. |
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Post by headsgoup on Jun 26, 2024 6:26:30 GMT
I think Kane is taking things into his own hands, coming deep. Or at least putting pressure on that this is how we have to play because it suits him best. I'm loathe to admit it, but he does look somewhat of a crutch. As others have said, loads of players getting in each others' way - not just Foden.
Pickford
Shaw
Stones
Guehi
TAA
Rice
Bellingham
Gordon
Foden
Palmer
Watkins (or Kane if he'll stay disciplined)
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England
Jun 26, 2024 6:38:03 GMT
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Jun 26, 2024 6:38:03 GMT
We are still favourites to win the tournament at 4/1
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England
Jun 26, 2024 6:43:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by mickstupp on Jun 26, 2024 6:43:27 GMT
We’ve got one game left in this tournament. I’m almost relieved.
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Post by Veritas on Jun 26, 2024 6:48:23 GMT
We are still favourites to win the tournament at 4/1 Shows that the odds are often no reflection on reality, they are of course just an indication of where most money has been staked. |
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Post by Veritas on Jun 26, 2024 6:50:34 GMT
We’ve got one game left in this tournament. I’m almost relieved. We have been poor so far and could very well go out in the next round but given the draw we could also just as plausibly get to the final. |
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England
Jun 26, 2024 6:55:55 GMT
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Post by scfcno1fan on Jun 26, 2024 6:55:55 GMT
Don’t know why I’ve the optimism but I still think we’ll get to the semis at least.
It’s been poor but still top of the group and I fancy us to drastically improve, assuming Gareth makes the changes that everyone can see need to be made.
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Post by callas12 on Jun 26, 2024 6:56:10 GMT
So far in this tournament Southgate has managed us for 3 matches. & for those 3 matches, despite us looking laboured & devoid of a genuine build up style or pattern, has only seen him see fit to make ONE change to his starting line up which was last night by dropping TAA for Gallagher..
Now due to the fact that this one change clearly wasn't working and had no impact he decided to haul Gallagher off at half time and try something else.
Just let that sink in & digest. Southgate is so stubborn he's persisting with a style & formula that clearly isn't working & he's (mid tournament) tinkering with personnel to try to get his way working, which it clearly hasn't been thus far.
This should all have been clear in his mind pre tournament, either pick the right personnel for your desired style, or change your style to suit the players you have available.
The bloke is so stubborn that his insistence on trying to put square pegs in round holes is literally destroying players Confidence on the world stage. TAA came in for the initial stick after being utilised in midfield clearly wasn't working. Gallagher last night must be mortified, being hooked at half time says only thing and it isn't a positive!
Bellingham is starting to look disinterested & bewildered by the way Safegates setting them up. Kane is either injured, not fit or the set up is just not fit for his game and positioning as he's having to forage deep for scraps.
Safegates literally ruining world class players who perform week in week out for their club teams to a high level by his stubborness and appeared lack of flexibility.
It's worrying that our 2x pre tournament fixures played out the same way that our 3x matches at the start of the Euros has, as whilst I keep trying to convince myself we are just on a slow burn leading up to the knock out stages & the best is yet to come, I as many others seem to have, this nagging feeling that sadly what we're being served up so far is us what we actually are & Southgates ran his course with us & the players are somehow sensing this which is quite worrying.. 🙄😬
It's almost as though this is South Africa 2014 World Cup & France 2016 Euros happening all over again.
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Jun 26, 2024 6:59:27 GMT
The squad is really struggling with balance. Two unadventurous fullbacks is a huge problem for us going forward. We’re desperate for Shaw to be available. I’d drop Bellingham. Awful tonight, as just as poor last game. This A right footed left back doesn't provide the overlap and width to get crosses from in behind. And a left winger who doesn't want to be there doesn't either Trent Alexander doesn't receive the ball on the half turn in midfield and play incisive passes. He doesn't defend well but against a lot of opposition he doesn't have to. His assets are seeing the play in front of him and playing diagonals or crosses to runners in behind Rice is not really a holding midfielder, his strength is breaking up the play higher up to create chances but quick enough to recover if it breaks down. Wharton is the best holding midfielder if we need one but if the fullbacks don't get involved do we need one. Bellingham and Foden are both 10s but because they are such good players they are shoehorned into another position. Start one and if it's not working bring in the other. Palmer is naturally left footed which in modern tactics means he starts on the right which is bollocks. Him on the left compensates if you have to play Tripper or even Walker at LB. Saka is out of sorts in the three games I haven't seen him once try and beat his man on the outside for pace. Bowen in his cameo did it several times. The biggest problem is the static Kane who simply can't run in behind as he has lost what little pace he had. He can score like any good finisher but when he begins to drop deeper like an auxiliary 10 he's not occupying the attention of the two CBs by moving them around It's the eternal problem of how to accommodate Scholes, Gerard, Lampard and Beckham into a midfield three, it can't be done. Southgate has his senior players by reputation which he's never going to drop. Tonight he replaced Trent with Gallagher, hardly controversial. At halftime he replaced Gallagher with Mainoo again a non controversial decision but totally ineffective but it didn't upset any of the Senior Players. Having stuttered in to top place in the Group id expect England to advance from the 16 and likely the 8 but when it comes down to the business end, Madeleine McCann has more chance of coming home than Football to England All fair points. Walker a superb commodity when we need to defend but there was a clear case for Trent to play in games where teams don’t want to attack us or don’t keep the ball. The worrying thing is not that we have fullbacks who don’t attack/overlap, it’s that we seem to have us playing a game where the wingers were waiting for them to make runs beyond them which was never going to happen. The squad is unbalanced and that’s out of Southgate’s hands but we’ve not adapted our game to try and counter that. The centre halves are reluctant to come out with the ball as well. Mark Guehi makes Shawcross look like a marauding Italian CB. It’s been a total mess and the best we’ve played is the first half vs Serbia and have regressed since. Not buying this ‘improved on the last game’ that they’re all singing from the hymn sheet either. It was merely a lower level opponent, who we still made look good on the ball at times. We are absolutely desperate to play a better quality team so the negative tactics can be more justified. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Jun 26, 2024 6:59:51 GMT
OK well for me at HT I’d have gone Gallagher off Palmer on and push Bellingham back and move Foden central Kane off and Watkins on That said Mainoo on for Gallagher improved us and he looked excellent that said only when Palmer came on did we look more threatening. Both simply have to start next game. If we’re going to go 4231 the 3 has to be Gordon Foden Palmer even if it means pushing Bellingham back or even dropping him as he’s been poor for 2 and a half games now. With Kane not sure what to do as he’s a class player but he’s just not been involved so I’m not sure if it’s a supply thing or if his lack of pace is the bigger factor. And that would mean dropping Rice then? There isn't actually an option of 'pushing Bellingham back' unless you do that, is there? Gordon------Foden------Palmer --------Mainoo------Rice----------
That was for the game yesterday. I’d have sacrificed Rice or Bellingham if needs be as they weren’t having an impact. To be fair of the 2 it’d probably be Bellingham though as a player on reputation he’s the better of the 2 but players shouldn’t be played on reputation. Moving forwards I’d either push him back and see how he does in the DM role or drop him for Mainoo. On his last 2 performance as a 10 he’s not earnt his place and looked frustrated. The key though is getting the 3 right and that has to mean primarily Foden as a 10 and Palmer out wide with Gordon. In a tournament if you play 2-3 games where you’re very poor or the systems not suiting you your place needs to be at risk. There’s to many players who are “undropable.” Compare that to France who dropped Griezman last night. He has to be brave and make changes next game especially if we’re playing a team who want to park the bus. |
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Post by telfordstokie on Jun 26, 2024 7:16:16 GMT
One of the big drawbacks of the tournament format and the third place qualifications is it has rewarded Slovenia for sitting back last night and not even attempting to score. Having said that, they did a brilliant job of not getting drawn out into pressing us and opening up space at any point. I think we will do better against more attacking teams in the knockout stages.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jun 26, 2024 7:42:53 GMT
One of the big drawbacks of the tournament format and the third place qualifications is it has rewarded Slovenia for sitting back last night and not even attempting to score. Having said that, they did a brilliant job of not getting drawn out into pressing us and opening up space at any point. I think we will do better against more attacking teams in the knockout stages. Will we though, we haven't really been tested in defence yet,how well will they hold up? |
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Jun 26, 2024 7:52:54 GMT
One of the big drawbacks of the tournament format and the third place qualifications is it has rewarded Slovenia for sitting back last night and not even attempting to score. Having said that, they did a brilliant job of not getting drawn out into pressing us and opening up space at any point. I think we will do better against more attacking teams in the knockout stages. I was thinking about the format last night. Presumably the thinking was to encourage teams to go for it more but it’s not really had the desire effect. I don’t want to sound elitist but I’d love to see it where the top teams properly battle it out. The Nations League has done that a little, especially with a home and away fixture but after the first tournament it’s lost it’s jazz a little. I absolutely hate the group stage of the Champions League as it’s just a waste of time. Financially it’ll never happen but I’d like to see it where genuinely elite teams are playing each other across the season. In its current format, it doesn’t really get going until the second knock out round. The fact that they’ve created the this conference league is an absolute mockery. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 26, 2024 7:59:33 GMT
Sounds like we're all screaming for the same thing.
Foden at 10 with pace either side.
2 out of Mainoo, Bellingham, Rice behind. I'd even take Gallagher there if it means the front 4 get sorted.
It seems so damn obvious to everyone except Southgate.
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England
Jun 26, 2024 8:02:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by GeneralFaye on Jun 26, 2024 8:02:04 GMT
I'd genuinely pick this side in the next game..
Pickford
Walker
Stones
Guehi
Shaw
Rice
Mainoo
Foden
Gordon
Saka
Kane
Palmer and Bellingham can be used as impact subs and depending on their performances force their way into the side. I refuse to believe Bellingham is undroppable.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jun 26, 2024 8:07:03 GMT
I'd genuinely pick this side in the next game.. Pickford Walker Stones Guehi Shaw Rice Mainoo Foden Gordon Saka Kane Palmer and Bellingham can be used as impact subs and depending on their performances force their way into the side. I refuse to believe Bellingham is undroppable. He's not undroppable, nobody is. It would be a bold move to drop a likely Ballon D'Or candidate though. |
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Post by smallthorner on Jun 26, 2024 8:19:07 GMT
Christ alive, he didn't actually suggest this did he? And to think that the clown actually gets paid for such knowledgeable 'insight'!  A couple of the pundits on the panel said it, apparently played there when he first started out for Arsenal according to them. If he was ever going to try it, tonight was the night I guess, wasn't like Trippier had to do much defending. Hopefully Shaw is back soon because the left side just looks so unbalanced otherwise Wright has obviously been reading my posts on Saka. Obvious thing to try him there at least for half. As I said also Palmer starts. Foden out. 343 With Walker inside. I'd have pissed that game as coach. |
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jun 26, 2024 8:38:24 GMT
I'd genuinely pick this side in the next game.. Pickford Walker Stones Guehi Shaw Rice Mainoo Foden Gordon Saka Kane Palmer and Bellingham can be used as impact subs and depending on their performances force their way into the side. I refuse to believe Bellingham is undroppable. He's not undroppable, nobody is. It would be a bold move to drop a likely Ballon D'Or candidate though. Team game, I just don't think he deserves to start right now and I'd prefer a midfielder like Mainoo who can control the game better. I'm giving Foden the next game as a #10 and it's up to him. |
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sevvy
Youth Player
Posts: 369
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Post by sevvy on Jun 26, 2024 9:14:19 GMT
I'd genuinely pick this side in the next game.. Pickford Walker Stones Guehi Shaw Rice Mainoo Foden Gordon Saka Kane Palmer and Bellingham can be used as impact subs and depending on their performances force their way into the side. I refuse to believe Bellingham is undroppable. Other than Palmer for Gordon, that's what I'd like to see too and then getting Watkins on earlyish if Kane is still not playing well |
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ian57
Youth Player
Posts: 351
Member is Online
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Post by ian57 on Jun 26, 2024 9:26:56 GMT
The biggest disappointment so far for me has been Bellingham because apart from the first half against Serbia I think he’s been very poor since I think part of the problem is Foden not being disciplined enough to stay out on the left (goodness knows why Southgate keeps persisting with him there, it's a waste of his talents) and he just gets in Bellingham's way. Basically Gareth's crap tactics ruining our two best players. Southgate has tactics? Since when? 🤭 |
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Post by jhtstokie on Jun 26, 2024 9:30:30 GMT
Fuck me, can’t wait watch Stoke again after that shower of shit last night.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jun 26, 2024 9:30:47 GMT
I wouldn't drop Bellingham - you need one of the best players in the world on from the start for me.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jun 26, 2024 9:31:33 GMT
Fuck me, can’t wait watch Stoke again after that shower of shit last night. We've been watching our shower of shit for the past 7 years, we should be desensitised to it by now! |
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England
Jun 26, 2024 9:34:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by jhtstokie on Jun 26, 2024 9:34:31 GMT
Fuck me, can’t wait watch Stoke again after that shower of shit last night. We've been watching our shower of shit for the past 7 years, we should be desensitised to it by now! 😆😆 |
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England
Jun 26, 2024 9:45:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by superjw on Jun 26, 2024 9:45:32 GMT
I wouldn't drop Bellingham - you need one of the best players in the world on from the start for me. Not when he isn’t playing like one of the best players in the world. He hasn’t turned up to this competition properly and needs to be dropped for the next game and probably come on as an impact sub if needed, nobody is undroppable. |
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