|
Post by Han Solo on Jun 24, 2024 9:37:59 GMT
Actually don’t mind the players coming out fighting, it can create that siege mentality, as long as they back it up on the pitch starting tomorrow. I like Declan Rice and think he's a top player but he always comes across a bit naïve to me I think he’s just a nice lad who doesn’t want to sell his friends / team mates down the river by saying they’re hopeless. I’m not sure what else he can say without causing a split in the camp. I’m sure secretly he doesn’t think that.
|
|
|
Post by tommycarlsberg on Jun 24, 2024 9:48:39 GMT
I like Declan Rice and think he's a top player but he always comes across a bit naïve to me I think he’s just a nice lad who doesn’t want to sell his friends / team mates down the river by saying they’re hopeless. I’m not sure what else he can say without causing a split in the camp. I’m sure secretly he doesn’t think that. I can't argue with that but I think he's too candid in that interview.
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Jun 24, 2024 9:57:04 GMT
The sad reality is England just struggle in tournaments.
The reasons vary but we find ways to fuck it up where others find ways to win.
Sometimes it’s the manager. Sometimes it’s the players. Often it’s both.
But even when we get it right we can’t get over the line.
I’ll actually be pleasantly surprised if we get past the round of 16.
|
|
|
Post by dirtygary69 on Jun 24, 2024 10:09:33 GMT
The sad reality is England just struggle in tournaments. The reasons vary but we find ways to fuck it up where others find ways to win. Sometimes it’s the manager. Sometimes it’s the players. Often it’s both. But even when we get it right we can’t get over the line. I’ll actually be pleasantly surprised if we get past the round of 16. We've played worse than we did in Euro 2016 so far. So much needs to be done to make it work. I hope this players v the media thing fucks off as well, it's not been like that under Southgate - just get on with it and take the criticism, because you have been terrible so far. Hopefully something clicks from hereon in.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Jun 24, 2024 10:11:02 GMT
The sad reality is England just struggle in tournaments. The reasons vary but we find ways to fuck it up where others find ways to win. Sometimes it’s the manager. Sometimes it’s the players. Often it’s both. But even when we get it right we can’t get over the line. I’ll actually be pleasantly surprised if we get past the round of 16. We've played worse than we did in Euro 2016 so far. So much needs to be done to make it work. I hope this players v the media thing fucks off as well, it's not been like that under Southgate - just get on with it and take the criticism, because you have been terrible so far. Hopefully something clicks from hereon in. Yes this is a real throwback to the endless players/manager v the media
|
|
|
England
Jun 24, 2024 10:19:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by delilahwhy on Jun 24, 2024 10:19:57 GMT
|
|
|
Post by superjw on Jun 24, 2024 10:43:05 GMT
Hopefully the players can respond to all this on the pitch, which is where it needs to count.
However, I actually agree with the criticism from pundits and the like, England have been woeful and certain key players simply are not delivering. Although a well mannered response from him, Harry Kane is not where he should be at all and for him to have a single touch in the box vs Denmark, it’s unacceptable levels of performance for someone who is no doubt first on the team sheet. It doesn’t take ex players or pundits to point that out. However we definitely don’t need to see return of media vs players stuff that is a dark mark on our past which needs not repeating.
The state of our group and us being top tells a different story and it’s right to remember where we are positioned, but the worry is we will not get past the last 16 how we are.
Pundits and especially ex players can clearly see we have the best generation of players we have ever had in terms of raw talent and club success, seeing these players seemingly loose all club ability the minute the England shirt comes on is a massive problem which we just can’t seem to fix. Thinking as neutrally as I can, I haven’t enjoyed englands games and you can easily see the difference between us and everyone else.
How good the Swiss were last night, they would have torn into us quite easily.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Jun 24, 2024 10:44:04 GMT
Positive - but still seems a big ask to see him come into a huge-stakes game after such a big lay-off, with no match fitness. Even if he gets a few minutes tomorrow, then maybe half an hour in the last 16, could he really start him in a potential QF?
|
|
|
England
Jun 24, 2024 10:50:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by delilahwhy on Jun 24, 2024 10:50:31 GMT
Positive - but still seems a big ask to see him come into a huge-stakes game after such a big lay-off, with no match fitness. Even if he gets a few minutes tomorrow, then maybe half an hour in the last 16, could he really start him in a potential QF? Given the alternative, I don't think we have much option. Massive gamble but nothing to lose (apart from the player relapsing, and Man Utd being extremely fu**ed off). It's the reason we've taken him.
|
|
|
Post by tommycarlsberg on Jun 24, 2024 11:11:49 GMT
I'm not really sure why the players have done what they've done either, as most people I speak to direct their dissent towards Southgate?
|
|
|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Jun 24, 2024 11:26:11 GMT
I tend not to notice individual performances, but Rice was absolutely shocking against Denmark. He was but that was an anomaly. Usually he's 8 out of 10. I just don't get the TAA hype. Agree I usually like Rice and thought he was our stand out player against Serbia (albeit in a sea of general mediocrity) so perhaps that’s why his terrible performance stood out.
|
|
|
Post by adri2008 on Jun 24, 2024 11:40:00 GMT
We are in pole position in the group at the end of the day. Nothing is fucked up yet and tomorrow is the perfect opportunity to get back on track. Nothing we can do about the LB situation but we have the players in midfield/attack who can nullify the issue. I know Southgate was mocked by people for the Kalvin Phillips comment but he's right to a degree, we don't have a top class 'destroyer' player to get the best out of Rice. TAA hasn't worked so time for either Bellingham or Wharton/Mainoo.
|
|
|
Post by GrahamHyde on Jun 24, 2024 11:41:46 GMT
There's three main issues to resolve isn't there. In order of priority (for me):
1. Left-footed left-back - no chance can we get to the business end of the tournament without Shaw in there.
2. Ball winner in midfield - either you push Bellingham back to take this role on or bring Wharton / Mainoo in. Either has its merits and drawbacks. I'd personally give Wharton a go.
3. Runners beyond the striker - Saka does that, Foden doesn't. Should be the easiest to fix with the inclusion of Gordon. If you've got Bellingham deeper, then you can push Foden into the 10, and have Palmer as an option as well.
Fixing those three should help us look a lot more balanced, but there's the greater issue of fitness and energy in there.
Interestingly, I'd have had Guehi down as one of the potential issues before the tournament but he's been excellent in the two games so far.
|
|
|
Post by GrahamHyde on Jun 24, 2024 11:46:28 GMT
I'm not really sure why the players have done what they've done either, as most people I speak to direct their dissent towards Southgate? He's a much better manager than people give him credit for, and history will look more kindly upon him than not. Detractors seem reluctant to give him any credit whatsoever. The fact is he's helped to build an England side who actually want to pull on the shirt and play with pride. We've had better teams in the past who have done far worse, often with supposedly better tacticians on the touchline.
|
|
|
Post by adri2008 on Jun 24, 2024 11:56:17 GMT
I'm not really sure why the players have done what they've done either, as most people I speak to direct their dissent towards Southgate? He's a much better manager than people give him credit for, and history will look more kindly upon him than not. Detractors seem reluctant to give him any credit whatsoever. The fact is he's helped to build an England side who actually want to pull on the shirt and play with pride. We've had better teams in the past who have done far worse, often with supposedly better tacticians on the touchline. The England manager is always on a hiding to nothing - you've got pundits (often failed managers) and 1000s of armchair managers sticking their oar in. It must be very hard to not allow it to effect you. As for Southgate himself, he's done a great job at moulding England sides who have on the whole, performed very well. Yes he's no master tactician and he has no real idea how to change a game if its going wrong (his biggest flaw) but the past 6 years have for me personally been a great period to be an England fan. I'm actually excited about watching the team.
|
|
|
Post by J-Roar on Jun 24, 2024 11:59:36 GMT
Positive - but still seems a big ask to see him come into a huge-stakes game after such a big lay-off, with no match fitness. Even if he gets a few minutes tomorrow, then maybe half an hour in the last 16, could he really start him in a potential QF? Given the alternative, I don't think we have much option. Massive gamble but nothing to lose (apart from the player relapsing, and Man Utd being extremely fu**ed off). It's the reason we've taken him. Win win then
|
|
|
England
Jun 24, 2024 12:00:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jun 24, 2024 12:00:27 GMT
Hopefully the players can respond to all this on the pitch, which is where it needs to count. However, I actually agree with the criticism from pundits and the like, England have been woeful and certain key players simply are not delivering. Although a well mannered response from him, Harry Kane is not where he should be at all and for him to have a single touch in the box vs Denmark, it’s unacceptable levels of performance for someone who is no doubt first on the team sheet. It doesn’t take ex players or pundits to point that out. However we definitely don’t need to see return of media vs players stuff that is a dark mark on our past which needs not repeating. The state of our group and us being top tells a different story and it’s right to remember where we are positioned, but the worry is we will not get past the last 16 how we are. Pundits and especially ex players can clearly see we have the best generation of players we have ever had in terms of raw talent and club success, seeing these players seemingly loose all club ability the minute the England shirt comes on is a massive problem which we just can’t seem to fix. Thinking as neutrally as I can, I haven’t enjoyed englands games and you can easily see the difference between us and everyone else. How good the Swiss were last night, they would have torn into us quite easily. When your midfield is completely bossed at times v Denmark then how can you point the finger at Kane coming deep looking for the ball? He's scored half of England's 2 goals, received bugger all service and already shown that if you get the ball into the box he will score. Being made a complete scapegoat so far How did his one touch in the box v Denmark work out again?
|
|
|
Post by J-Roar on Jun 24, 2024 12:04:08 GMT
He's a much better manager than people give him credit for, and history will look more kindly upon him than not. Detractors seem reluctant to give him any credit whatsoever. The fact is he's helped to build an England side who actually want to pull on the shirt and play with pride. We've had better teams in the past who have done far worse, often with supposedly better tacticians on the touchline. The England manager is always on a hiding to nothing - you've got pundits (often failed managers) and 1000s of armchair managers sticking their oar in. It must be very hard to not allow it to effect you. As for Southgate himself, he's done a great job at moulding England sides who have on the whole, performed very well. Yes he's no master tactician and he has no real idea how to change a game if its going wrong (his biggest flaw) but the past 6 years have for me personally been a great period to be an England fan. I'm actually excited about watching the team. So like managing a top premier league team? Except there you've got hundreds of millions of armchair managers. He's a poor manager who has wasted easy draws and home advantage in tournaments. He's made a fortune with very little talent other than being English and knowing who's backside to kiss. He definitely won't get a top job. I wonder what the players who have to listen to his backward tactics think when, day to day, they are listening to some of the most astute football managers on the planet.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Jun 24, 2024 12:05:11 GMT
Gallagher in - in the most boring change imaginable
|
|
|
England
Jun 24, 2024 12:07:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by Laughing Gravy on Jun 24, 2024 12:07:50 GMT
Gallagher in - in the most boring change imaginable Hopefully Gallagher gets a yellow card which will rule him out of the next round. Unfortunately you just know TAA would be straight back in though. 🤷♂️
|
|
|
Post by delilahwhy on Jun 24, 2024 12:07:58 GMT
Gallagher in - in the most boring change imaginable Extremely uninspiring.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2024 12:08:57 GMT
Gallagher in - in the most boring change imaginable 🤣😂🤣😂 I wonder what the likes of Ivan Toney and Cole Palmer are up to outside of collecting bibs, picking up cones and playing on their PlayStation 5s? Imagine if we went on to miraculously win this thing somehow? It'd be the most stodgy tournament win ever.
|
|
|
Post by GrahamHyde on Jun 24, 2024 12:09:03 GMT
Gallagher in - in the most boring change imaginable Gallagher isn't good enough at this level. Basically Joe Allen.
|
|
|
England
Jun 24, 2024 12:09:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by Laughing Gravy on Jun 24, 2024 12:09:55 GMT
Gallagher in - in the most boring change imaginable Extremely uninspiring. But hugely predictable.
|
|
|
England
Jun 24, 2024 12:17:35 GMT
via mobile
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jun 24, 2024 12:17:35 GMT
Gallagher in - in the most boring change imaginable Gallagher isn't good enough at this level. Basically Joe Allen. Joe Allen who got to the semi final ?
|
|
|
Post by dirtygary69 on Jun 24, 2024 12:18:40 GMT
Gallagher is not the answer. What is he scared of here? If you don't want to play Mainoo or Wharton, don't frigging take them.
|
|
|
Post by cousindupree on Jun 24, 2024 12:18:55 GMT
Gallagher in - in the most boring change imaginable Gallagher isn't good enough at this level. Basically Joe Allen. Didn't joe allen make the team of the tournament in 2016? So he clearly was good enough at this level.
|
|
|
England
Jun 24, 2024 13:13:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by superjw on Jun 24, 2024 13:13:54 GMT
Gallagher in - in the most boring change imaginable 🤣😂🤣😂 I wonder what the likes of Ivan Toney and Cole Palmer are up to outside of collecting bibs, picking up cones and playing on their PlayStation 5s? Imagine if we went on to miraculously win this thing somehow? It'd be the most stodgy tournament win ever. Palmer will be wondering why he bothered getting on the plane 😂
|
|
|
Post by cdf on Jun 24, 2024 13:14:11 GMT
You know that I have been sticking up for Southgate but oh man, WTF?
After coming out of the game on Thursday night, I was adamant that I would not go to the game on Tuesday even though I have my match ticket and all my travel booked to get into Germany tonight.
Then I was 50/50 over the weekend thinking surely somethings got to change and low and behold 4 hours before I'm supposed to travel this news breaks.
It's so uninspiring now. No balance, No left footers.
Is he doing this on purpose now?
|
|
|
England
Jun 24, 2024 13:15:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by superjw on Jun 24, 2024 13:15:19 GMT
Gallagher is not the answer. What is he scared of here? If you don't want to play Mainoo or Wharton, don't frigging take them. Southgate is scared of his own shadow
|
|