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Post by Han Solo on Jun 21, 2024 8:00:09 GMT
Let’s be honest, while Southgate is ultimately accountable, what we’re seeing is hardly unfamiliar. Bar the occasional bright spells the way England play as a national team is pretty much what we saw last night. Unlike Spain, Italy, Germany, Portugal etc we never really look like we want the ball. Never look comfortable in possession and invariably panic when we go behind or come up against a side that asks questions of us. I did think that maybe we were evolving into a more measured and controlled footballing side but sadly it doesn’t look like that’s happening. On another note the world class talents we allegedly have look distinctly average. Something happens when players put on an England shirt and it’s usually underwhelming. It almost mirrors our time under Neil. Safety first football even against teams you should be much stronger then.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jun 21, 2024 8:01:58 GMT
Let’s be honest, while Southgate is ultimately accountable, what we’re seeing is hardly unfamiliar. Bar the occasional bright spells the way England play as a national team is pretty much what we saw last night. Unlike Spain, Italy, Germany, Portugal etc we never really look like we want the ball. Never look comfortable in possession and invariably panic when we go behind or come up against a side that asks questions of us. I did think that maybe we were evolving into a more measured and controlled footballing side but sadly it doesn’t look like that’s happening. On another note the world class talents we allegedly have look distinctly average. Something happens when players put on an England shirt and it’s usually underwhelming. It almost mirrors our time under Neil. Safety first football even against teams you should be much stronger then. There are definitely Stoke similarities. Not the glory years that were referenced in that YouTube link. But definitely the turgid, clueless and predictable shite we’ve seen since relegation.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 21, 2024 8:03:38 GMT
His remark " we've never replaced Kalvin Phillips but we are trying things". He should be sacked for that 1) phillips is fit B ) he's not good enough and never has been C) middle of a tournament isn't the right time to try things D) just go 433 and let them express themselves We had so many players in defensive positions, it reminded me of Pulis and playing the cage with 2 not allowed to venture more than 10 yards in front of the centre halves Southgate seems set on this formation and these tactics. A good manager and we'd win this, my fear is last 8 or 16 His comment was daft, that said Phillips was England player of the season in 2021 and that version of him was integral to our (relative) success at the time. He has Mainoo and Wharton to turn to though so he needs to get his finger out and change things, Rice as an out and out sitting midfielder looks so laboured it's unbelievable, he needs to be 10 yards further up the pitch......
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Post by shrewspotter on Jun 21, 2024 8:08:11 GMT
Absolute shambles yesterday he looked like a man in a crisis yesterday and so he should after being bossed by the Danes. I wouldn’t go with wholesale changes but something needs to happen. Pickford Trippier by default (why the hell take Shaw) Gueye Stones Walker Rice Bellingham (please don’t bring in Gallagher he just runs around a lot) Palmer or Gordon Foden Saka Kane though it’s a close call with Watkins agree on the Kane/Watkins debate Kane was far far too deep, there were occasions where he was in midfield and when we attacked they had 3 centre halves marking zero players. AND he fucked up for their goal and he should have been nowhere near that. Watkins ran in behind, looked sharpe and harrased. It would be unthinkable to drop Kane............wouldnt it???
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Post by questionable on Jun 21, 2024 8:10:02 GMT
It’s the England hyping up that annoys me, other than an handful of “individual “ players were a below average team.
This it’s coming home malarkey is total bull shit
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Post by noustie on Jun 21, 2024 8:30:13 GMT
Who the fuck looks at your midfield and thinks a) really need Kalvin Phillips and b) lets chuck a right back in there for a bit see how it goes.
Other things from yesterday I thought Bellingham didn't do much but space is being completely choked by two right footers on the left. Kane was miles off it and his goal was a gift that shouldn't mask that fact - Watkins looked far more dangerous in his cameo and actually stretched the Danes / gave Bellingham something to play off.
The balance isn't right either - from your perspective there was too many times balls up to the Danish front line stuck. They had a defender at their back fair enough but they had acres of space to control it because the midfield was miles away. One time he chested it about 10 yards and still had time to get it then turn.
Maybe it'll act to create a siege mentality or alternatively it's maybe a tournament too far for Southgate.
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England
Jun 21, 2024 8:40:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by Bera’s Beano on Jun 21, 2024 8:40:21 GMT
Bin the TAA experiment and move on. We've as good as qualified with 4 points so we dont need to grind out a result, we need a good performance both from the manager and the players too who looked absolute dog shit on the ball tonight. Im not writing off this tournament yet. If we finish second we’ll have to face Germany in the last 16 and that is the end of our tournament. They are far better than 3 years ago and will walk through us playing how we are.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Jun 21, 2024 8:41:26 GMT
Didn’t come on the oatcake last night, so don’t know what’s already been said
Sack Gareth and give it Klopp till end t’season and we win tournament
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jun 21, 2024 8:51:07 GMT
Spot on. The sad thing is that most people can see it bar Southgate. The worrying thing for me is that his substitutions suggest that Gallagher (runs around a lot) and Bowen (decent at PL but not sure he’s a game changer) are ahead in the pecking order of Palmer and Gordon who for me offer far more. You can definitely see him going with Gallagher next to Rice next game and Bowen starting, that would be criminal. If Palmer and Gordon don’t get a big chunk of game time in the next game then you know he has bottled it. I’ve never been overly critical of Southgate, but he is proving the majority right in the sense that he can’t make big selection calls, yes he did it with his squad announcement but now it’s time to do it before and in games. The most stupid thing for me, is that if he had taken Grealish, he'd have been ahead of Bowen and Gordon in his thinking as an option in the two games we've had. I'm not sure how much of a happy camp it'll be right now. They can't be pleased with how they're being asked to play and you've potentially got a lot of younger lads pissed off at not playing. I just feel he's made a bit of a mess with this squad. You need good lads in the camp, even if they aren't playing. I'm not sure how good the likes of Palmer, Eze and Gordon will be about the place not getting many/any minutes.
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Post by redstriper on Jun 21, 2024 8:57:36 GMT
Bellingham just looks tired to me. He's had a hugely busy season. I'd rest him for the next match.
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Post by noustie on Jun 21, 2024 8:58:21 GMT
Just got in The city centre was absolutely rammed after the match with Denmark and England mixing and singing together What I will say though is there’s a large amount of Danish fans who seemed intent in provoking the English support with absolute uncalled for snide digs and songs about England Fair play to the England fans for not reacting Anyway I’m off to bed ….cmon England Cheeky bastards Always had a soft spot for the Danes.
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Post by premieraj on Jun 21, 2024 8:58:39 GMT
You can definitely see him going with Gallagher next to Rice next game and Bowen starting, that would be criminal. If Palmer and Gordon don’t get a big chunk of game time in the next game then you know he has bottled it. I’ve never been overly critical of Southgate, but he is proving the majority right in the sense that he can’t make big selection calls, yes he did it with his squad announcement but now it’s time to do it before and in games. The most stupid thing for me, is that if he had taken Grealish, he'd have been ahead of Bowen and Gordon in his thinking as an option in the two games we've had. I'm not sure how much of a happy camp it'll be right now. They can't be pleased with how they're being asked to play and you've potentially got a lot of younger lads pissed off at not playing. I just feel he's made a bit of a mess with this squad. You need good lads in the camp, even if they aren't playing. I'm not sure how good the likes of Palmer, Eze and Gordon will be about the place not getting many/any minutes. Utterly ridiculous not taking Grealish and he wanted sacking for that alone. Coming on on the left would have got us up the pitch and he draws fouls which gives set pieces and pressure. Madness!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2024 9:00:28 GMT
His remark " we've never replaced Kalvin Phillips but we are trying things". He should be sacked for that 1) phillips is fit B ) he's not good enough and never has been C) middle of a tournament isn't the right time to try things D) just go 433 and let them express themselves We had so many players in defensive positions, it reminded me of Pulis and playing the cage with 2 not allowed to venture more than 10 yards in front of the centre halves Southgate seems set on this formation and these tactics. A good manager and we'd win this, my fear is last 8 or 16 His comment was daft, that said Phillips was England player of the season in 2021 and that version of him was integral to our (relative) success at the time. He has Mainoo and Wharton to turn to though so he needs to get his finger out and change things, Rice as an out and out sitting midfielder looks so laboured it's unbelievable, he needs to be 10 yards further up the pitch...... I said it during the game. Phillips would have at least helped us from getting overrun. We lost every 50-50 all across the park but particularly in the center. Phillips isn’t creative but with him, we beat a few good teams on the way to the last final. You can’t be creative if you can’t win the ball. I don’t know if it would be possible to play Foden and Bellingham central behind Kane and ahead of Phillips and Rice. It asks a lot of the fullbacks to provide width. However, whoever goes in there needs to win the battles that Phillips does (or did) but ideally can pass a ball as well.
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Post by apb1 on Jun 21, 2024 9:14:58 GMT
Spain showed how to play the game last night. Maybe they have better players but it was just so positive. Wide players destroying full backs, forwards and attacking midfielders with guile and superb touch. We just look terrified and that leads to giving the ball away. Believe in yourselves lads! I do think the points about tiredness ring true. Foden in the cup final and Bellingham in the later CL games had started a bit jaded.
I'm taking comfort in how a totally shit Portugal team won it in 2016 having drawn all their group games. Two 110 min odd winners, a pen shoot out success Poland & a win over Wales later and they're top of the continent..
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Post by salopstick on Jun 21, 2024 9:15:01 GMT
players do exactly what their mangers tell them to do. but they could be better
its on the manager
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Post by LphPotter on Jun 21, 2024 9:16:54 GMT
Lineker and the rest in the studio, apart from Thomas Frank, were embarrassing yesterday I thought. The blame they began putting on Kane because he doesn’t make runs in behind was nonsensical, he’s literally never done that in his career, he’s not the one supposed to be doing that, it’s the wingers and Bellingham.
They’re either being told not to or just not doing it.
Thomas Frank had to keep stepping in to tell them that their thouhts of possibly dropping Kane for Watkins was basically ludicrous.
Guess which one is actually a successful manager.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 21, 2024 9:37:46 GMT
Lineker and the rest in the studio, apart from Thomas Frank, were embarrassing yesterday I thought. The blame they began putting on Kane because he doesn’t make runs in behind was nonsensical, he’s literally never done that in his career, he’s not the one supposed to be doing that, it’s the wingers and Bellingham. They’re either being told not to or just not doing it. Thomas Frank had to keep stepping in to tell them that their thouhts of possibly dropping Kane for Watkins was basically ludicrous. Guess which one is actually a successful manager. The elephant in the room with Kane is he had a back injury at Bayern and missed the last couple of games of the season and I don't think he's even match fit at the moment. Even more reason to come up with a system that ensures he plays up front without drifting deep, if that means two up top or getting players closer to him so be it.......
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England
Jun 21, 2024 9:39:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by boskampsflaps on Jun 21, 2024 9:39:40 GMT
Let’s be honest, while Southgate is ultimately accountable, what we’re seeing is hardly unfamiliar. Bar the occasional bright spells the way England play as a national team is pretty much what we saw last night. Unlike Spain, Italy, Germany, Portugal etc we never really look like we want the ball. Never look comfortable in possession and invariably panic when we go behind or come up against a side that asks questions of us. I did think that maybe we were evolving into a more measured and controlled footballing side but sadly it doesn’t look like that’s happening. On another note the world class talents we allegedly have look distinctly average. Something happens when players put on an England shirt and it’s usually underwhelming. It happens when they're forced into something which doesn't suit them.
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England
Jun 21, 2024 9:41:00 GMT
via mobile
Post by foxysgloves on Jun 21, 2024 9:41:00 GMT
Just got in The city centre was absolutely rammed after the match with Denmark and England mixing and singing together What I will say though is there’s a large amount of Danish fans who seemed intent in provoking the English support with absolute uncalled for snide digs and songs about England Fair play to the England fans for not reacting Anyway I’m off to bed ….cmon England Cheeky bastards Always had a soft spot for the Danes. The Danish. Great bunch of lads. Danish pastries and Hans Christian Andersen Where would the world be without them? PS one of the few countries to have been even more useless than the French in WW2. They tried to be neutral and still got occupied.
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England
Jun 21, 2024 9:43:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by boskampsflaps on Jun 21, 2024 9:43:04 GMT
Absolute shambles yesterday he looked like a man in a crisis yesterday and so he should after being bossed by the Danes. I wouldn’t go with wholesale changes but something needs to happen. Pickford Trippier by default (why the hell take Shaw) Gueye Stones Walker Rice Bellingham (please don’t bring in Gallagher he just runs around a lot) Palmer or Gordon Foden Saka Kane though it’s a close call with Watkins agree on the Kane/Watkins debate Kane was far far too deep, there were occasions where he was in midfield and when we attacked they had 3 centre halves marking zero players. AND he fucked up for their goal and he should have been nowhere near that. Watkins ran in behind, looked sharpe and harrased. It would be unthinkable to drop Kane............wouldnt it??? I'd drop him, he makes it too easy for teams to press higher up as they know no ones running in behind. It's either drop him or push the wide players higher up, running past him, Southgate is unlikely to do the latter as it's way to out there for him so the only way I can see it happening is to drop Kane.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jun 21, 2024 9:44:23 GMT
The only way it's coming home,is if the winners bring it over here.
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Post by nickw180582 on Jun 21, 2024 9:46:05 GMT
I don't get this Kane is coming too deep argument, he's always played that way for England. The difference was he had runners from midfield going past him like Sterling, Rashford, Sancho plus 2 attacking full backs. Now he only has Saka and occasionally Walker, there's nothing going forward on the left or from midfield. Wharton has to start in centre midfield, the most naturally gifted passer we have. Rice can then play further forward where he's been good for Arsenal and then Bellingham running off Kane. Then while you've got no attacking left full back Gordon has to play on the left to run in behind.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jun 21, 2024 9:48:26 GMT
His comment was daft, that said Phillips was England player of the season in 2021 and that version of him was integral to our (relative) success at the time. He has Mainoo and Wharton to turn to though so he needs to get his finger out and change things, Rice as an out and out sitting midfielder looks so laboured it's unbelievable, he needs to be 10 yards further up the pitch...... I said it during the game. Phillips would have at least helped us from getting overrun. We lost every 50-50 all across the park but particularly in the center. Phillips isn’t creative but with him, we beat a few good teams on the way to the last final. You can’t be creative if you can’t win the ball. I don’t know if it would be possible to play Foden and Bellingham central behind Kane and ahead of Phillips and Rice. It asks a lot of the fullbacks to provide width. However, whoever goes in there needs to win the battles that Phillips does (or did) but ideally can pass a ball as well. Agree, his worst mistake has been putting Trent in there instead of someone like Wharton or Mainoo. I'd prefer Wharton myself, think he'd make a difference in there and then Shaw on the left as well. This squad selection has been very poor. I'd have had Grealish and Rashford in there myself - and a proper, left sided full back. That said, we're pretty much through now and unbeaten after two games. It's just that we all have eyes and can see we're not going to get anywhere near if we carry on playing like this.
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England
Jun 21, 2024 9:59:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by tommycarlsberg on Jun 21, 2024 9:59:15 GMT
Absolute shambles yesterday he looked like a man in a crisis yesterday and so he should after being bossed by the Danes. I wouldn’t go with wholesale changes but something needs to happen. Pickford Trippier by default (why the hell take Shaw) Gueye Stones Walker Rice Bellingham (please don’t bring in Gallagher he just runs around a lot) Palmer or Gordon Foden Saka Kane though it’s a close call with Watkins agree on the Kane/Watkins debate Kane was far far too deep, there were occasions where he was in midfield and when we attacked they had 3 centre halves marking zero players. AND he fucked up for their goal and he should have been nowhere near that. Watkins ran in behind, looked sharpe and harrased. It would be unthinkable to drop Kane............wouldnt it??? Who’d have thought a few weeks ago, the shit I was getting on here for saying Watkins was a better option than Kane In a team of eleven Harry Kane is useless
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England
Jun 21, 2024 10:10:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jun 21, 2024 10:10:01 GMT
agree on the Kane/Watkins debate Kane was far far too deep, there were occasions where he was in midfield and when we attacked they had 3 centre halves marking zero players. AND he fucked up for their goal and he should have been nowhere near that. Watkins ran in behind, looked sharpe and harrased. It would be unthinkable to drop Kane............wouldnt it??? Who’d have thought a few weeks ago, the shit I was getting on here for saying Watkins was a better option than Kane In a team of eleven Harry Kane is useless He's score half of their goals so far and was coming deep due to the midfield being bossed by Denmark
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Post by Pugsley on Jun 21, 2024 10:20:53 GMT
It's pretty clear that this tournament is one too far for the manager. Players are hanging him out to dry but he's not helping himself with bizarre team selections.
TAA would not be even in the squad if he played for anyone else bar Liverpool. He's abysmal.
The balance is all wrong, albeit not helped by not having a fit and proper left back but England are again shoe horning players into the side. Foden should be in the middle - you saw it last night. I'd rest Bellingham on Tuesday as he looks knackered and put Wharton or Mainoo alongside Rice. Gordon has to play left to provide width and some energy. I don't think Kane is fit either.
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England
Jun 21, 2024 10:29:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by premieraj on Jun 21, 2024 10:29:25 GMT
It's pretty clear that this tournament is one too far for the manager. Players are hanging him out to dry but he's not helping himself with bizarre team selections. TAA would not be even in the squad if he played for anyone else bar Liverpool. He's abysmal. The balance is all wrong, albeit not helped by not having a fit and proper left back but England are again shoe horning players into the side. Foden should be in the middle - you saw it last night. I'd rest Bellingham on Tuesday as he looks knackered and put Wharton or Mainoo alongside Rice. Gordon has to play left to provide width and some energy. I don't think Kane is fit either. The sadness is everyone can see it but seemingly not him! It’s so frustrating….
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Post by peterpan1 on Jun 21, 2024 10:45:23 GMT
It's pretty clear that this tournament is one too far for the manager. Players are hanging him out to dry but he's not helping himself with bizarre team selections. TAA would not be even in the squad if he played for anyone else bar Liverpool. He's abysmal. The balance is all wrong, albeit not helped by not having a fit and proper left back but England are again shoe horning players into the side. Foden should be in the middle - you saw it last night. I'd rest Bellingham on Tuesday as he looks knackered and put Wharton or Mainoo alongside Rice. Gordon has to play left to provide width and some energy. I don't think Kane is fit either. He should been sacked the day following our loss to Italy 3 yrs ago. End of.
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Post by LphPotter on Jun 21, 2024 10:54:34 GMT
agree on the Kane/Watkins debate Kane was far far too deep, there were occasions where he was in midfield and when we attacked they had 3 centre halves marking zero players. AND he fucked up for their goal and he should have been nowhere near that. Watkins ran in behind, looked sharpe and harrased. It would be unthinkable to drop Kane............wouldnt it??? Who’d have thought a few weeks ago, the shit I was getting on here for saying Watkins was a better option than Kane In a team of eleven Harry Kane is useless Watkins is not even close to being a better option than Kane, let Kane play how he’s always played and have runners in behind.
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Post by marylandstoke on Jun 21, 2024 11:02:33 GMT
Didn’t come on the oatcake last night, so don’t know what’s already been said Sack Gareth and give it Klopp till end t’season and we win tournament I nearly dropped my joint.
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