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Post by boskampsflaps on Jun 20, 2024 21:08:20 GMT
Why do people keep mentioning Kelvin Phillips? Please don't tell me he name checked him in his interview? Trying different things would suggest we've tried anything but TAA there, the worry is it feels like this was always the plan and he never thought it wouldn't work, he has zero idea how to change it.
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England
Jun 20, 2024 21:10:03 GMT
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lordb likes this
Post by foxysgloves on Jun 20, 2024 21:10:03 GMT
Anyone still defending the spineless tw@t that is Southgate ? He’s not spineless. He’s just not great at being agressive. In his personality or his management. And unfortunately tournament football requires a level of controlled aggression. He has the controlled nailed down, the aggression I think is sadly just not in him.
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Post by adri2008 on Jun 20, 2024 21:11:19 GMT
Bin the TAA experiment and move on.
We've as good as qualified with 4 points so we dont need to grind out a result, we need a good performance both from the manager and the players too who looked absolute dog shit on the ball tonight.
Im not writing off this tournament yet.
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England
Jun 20, 2024 21:14:33 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Jun 20, 2024 21:14:33 GMT
Can we sack Southgate tonight and appoint Thomas Frank for the rest of the tournament? The thing that fucks me off the most though is that pretty much any other manager (even outmoded dinosaurs like Dyche et al) would have this lot playing with purpose and an actual plan. I fucking hate Eddie Howe (and really do hope he's not the next England boss) but even that little tiny mouthed simp would do better than Choadgate 😤 To quote the sample at the start of Primal Scream's 'Loaded' - "Just what is it that you want to do?" Answer me that Gareth, you bag of warm piss. Tiny mouthed simp *snigger
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Post by salopstick on Jun 20, 2024 21:16:53 GMT
We’ve got a stoke headline response to England on here Prime stoke were fucking ace. Wingers and two big bastards up fromt
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England
Jun 20, 2024 21:17:52 GMT
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Jun 20, 2024 21:17:52 GMT
What’s the game plan? I honestly can’t see what they’re trying to do. Keep it tight and make sure we take the few chances that come along. Fine for a David vs Goliath. Not sure what the expectation is if that’s what you’re asking of ‘Goliath’? I’ve largely supported Southgate through most of the criticism he’s had, but the last 180 minutes have been atrocious. The two warm up games were dire, as were the games vs Brazil and Belgium. Man for man they’ve been really poor, but tactically I’ve no idea what they’re trying to do?
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Post by foxysgloves on Jun 20, 2024 21:18:21 GMT
We need to be careful here not to lay it all on the manager.
There are plenty of allegedly world class players who were on that pitch and got completely bossed by a beige and average Denmark side.
They would want to step up and justify the ludicrous hype.
That said, Southgate is a problem.
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Post by peterthornesboots on Jun 20, 2024 21:20:17 GMT
Bin the TAA experiment and move on. We've as good as qualified with 4 points so we dont need to grind out a result, we need a good performance both from the manager and the players too who looked absolute dog shit on the ball tonight. Im not writing off this tournament yet. I understand the frustration that people are feeling, but some of the reactions on here (and abuse) is just completely over the top. Ultimately, we are still in prime position to qualify. You win nothing for hammering teams in the group stage and the ultimate judgement will be when we start playing the knock out games. As you say, it is way too early to write us off. However, a significant improvement and rethink of our approach will be required.
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England
Jun 20, 2024 21:21:18 GMT
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Post by peterpan1 on Jun 20, 2024 21:21:18 GMT
Anyone still defending the spineless tw@t that is Southgate ? He’s not spineless. He’s just not great at being agressive. In his personality or his management. And unfortunately tournament football requires a level of controlled aggression. He has the controlled nailed down, the aggression I think is sadly just not in him. I certainly couldn't see him lobbing a hair dryer that's for sure ! His weak management style cost us at Wembley 3 yrs ago.
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Post by Davef on Jun 20, 2024 21:21:54 GMT
We’ve got a stoke headline response to England on here Prime stoke were fucking ace. Wingers and two big bastards up fromt And made mugs out of that weapon's team on several occasions.
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Jun 20, 2024 21:29:14 GMT
Is there a separate Trent Alexander-Arnold thread, or do I moan on here?
He’s a piss poor version of an ancient Charlie Adam. Hollywood or nothing.
They said they’d been working on this for over 12 months - not a huge amount of time in the international football, but it just doesn’t work at all. And if it doesn’t work against two side who were expecting to beat, it’s not going to work against the nations we should be competing with. The friendlies are there to assess this before we go into tournament football.
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Post by a on Jun 20, 2024 21:36:27 GMT
Anyone still defending the spineless tw@t that is Southgate ? He’s not spineless. He’s just not great at being agressive. In his personality or his management. And unfortunately tournament football requires a level of controlled aggression. He has the controlled nailed down, the aggression I think is sadly just not in him. Or the other reality of trying to win a game convincingly when you’re overwhelming favourites. It’s a shame we’re wasting the talents of this squad
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Post by butlerstbob on Jun 20, 2024 21:39:56 GMT
What I don't understand is Gareth Southgate says putting Trent Alexander-Arnold in midfield is an "experiment" as England search for answers in the middle of the park! Surely friendlies are for "experiments" and not your first 2 of a 3 game knockout?!
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England
Jun 20, 2024 21:43:06 GMT
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Jun 20, 2024 21:43:06 GMT
Can anyone see Southgate shouting at players? He said in an interview today that he didn’t have time to enjoy victories, and did for a few minutes, then had a cuddle with the players (his words) and moved on. I’ve no idea what his coaching ability is like to be honest but the blazerratti in the FA have always been puddled in their thinking. They took a risk once with Venables and must have been ecstatic when he had to leave. He’ll leave win or lose after this tournament so let’s ride it out and see if he shows some balls.
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Post by blackpoolred on Jun 20, 2024 21:50:23 GMT
We need to be careful here not to lay it all on the manager. There are plenty of allegedly world class players who were on that pitch and got completely bossed by a beige and average Denmark side. They would want to step up and justify the ludicrous hype. That said, Southgate is a problem. Steady on, don't be putting any blame on the players Most average bunch of players we have had in England shirts in my 55+ years of watching them, we are always hyped to death by the press and media and it is their job to do so - they are selling a product. England have just played 2 teams who are in nations league A, while we are in B, so you could argue England are punching above their weight and the manager is once again managing to polish a turd. Foden and Saka are good prem players, particular when playing with other class players against the likes of Palace and Burnley but like many other players in this squad bang average when it comes to international football. I wont mention defence because it is just average, but how many of this squad would start ahead of the so called golden generation: Midfield: Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes Forwards: Rooney, Owen Argument maybe for Bellingham, but half the player Gerrard was for me - as for the rest, they would not get close to any of those players. And yes the golden generation won feck all and were shite and under achievers, and I could agree there was an argument for hopeless management back then, but not now - we are just ok as a squad of players - and whatever you think of the manager he really is managing to polish a turd when you think he managed to get to a WC semi and reach a euros final, and now looks like getting out of the group stages again. He is also correct - we could do with a Phillips type player to give us a bit more balance. That said, this team is coming home early and could get a pasting off one of the tier 1 teams
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Post by bluescreen on Jun 20, 2024 21:55:54 GMT
Southgate is the type of guy to wear a helmet on his peloton
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jun 20, 2024 21:59:14 GMT
I’d be tempted to put TAA at right back next game, see what he can do from there. This midfield bollocks with him is exactly that. We’ll need Walker for the knock outs for sure.
Bellingham HAS to be the other 8 with Rice with Gordon coming in on the left. Watkins would also be something I’d look at for a lot longer, maybe even from the start but I can’t see it. Or even Toney. As great as Kane has been, he’s clearly not quite right either fitness wise or for this system, whatever it is we’re trying to do. Flogging Kane isn’t going to do him or us any favours.
I don’t see how he’s getting it quite so wrong. It’s really not that difficult and he’d be doing himself so many favours playing the team most people know is the right one. Then at least you can say the players themselves haven’t performed.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jun 20, 2024 22:00:33 GMT
It really isn't rocket science.
A midfield 3 of Rice (holding), Bellingham (box to box) and Foden (no10) is beautifully balanced and plays to the strengths of all 3 players.
I don't get where this "Bellingham is a no10" has come from. He's a proper midfield player. A young Brian Robson with the physical capabilities to do every role demanded of a proper old fashioned midfield player. He's not a no10 in the sense of being the creative fulcrum of the team. He doesn't find pockets of space, he doesn't take the ball on the half turn and play in tight spaces. He a powerhouse. He drives with the ball. He's desperate to be involved in the game across all facets.
He can undoubtedly do the no10 role but it stifles many of his key attributes, notably his physicality. At Madrid, he suddenly found the ability to score goals and all of a sudden he's a no10. Similar happened with Joe Allen and we ended up sacrificing our ideal No10 for a midfield player that wasn't.
It shouldn't be as hard as Southgate is making it and his comment that "we haven't got a natural replacement for Kalvin Phillips" should be a sackable offence on it's own. Get those 3 in midfield and flank them with players on the left and right who are prepared to go outside the opposition full back. We can stretch the pitch, Kane can drop in deep if that's what he likes doing and Bellingham can bomb on beyond him.
Kane without willing runners beyond him is the best part of useless. You might as well stick a traffic cone up there. Southgate is picking a team that stifles the best attributes of pretty much every player he has. It takes some doing. It's the same with TAA in truth. He's a right back. Play him at right back or not at all.
A good friend of mine is a regular traveller with England home and away and has been for 30 years. His comment is the best I've seen re this England team so far...
Giving Gareth Southgate this group of England players is like getting your gran to organise your stag do.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jun 20, 2024 22:00:47 GMT
We need to be careful here not to lay it all on the manager. There are plenty of allegedly world class players who were on that pitch and got completely bossed by a beige and average Denmark side. They would want to step up and justify the ludicrous hype. That said, Southgate is a problem. If the players like him then hopefully we’ll get a reaction next game. They’ll start playing like they can and perform like footballers… … forgetting all the stuff he’s told them to do …
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Post by Olgrligm on Jun 20, 2024 22:02:04 GMT
We need to be careful here not to lay it all on the manager. There are plenty of allegedly world class players who were on that pitch and got completely bossed by a beige and average Denmark side. They would want to step up and justify the ludicrous hype. That said, Southgate is a problem. Steady on, don't be putting any blame on the players Most average bunch of players we have had in England shirts in my 55+ years of watching them, we are always hyped to death by the press and media and it is their job to do so - they are selling a product. England have just played 2 teams who are in nations league A, while we are in B, so you could argue England are punching above their weight and the manager is once again managing to polish a turd. Foden and Saka are good prem players, particular when playing with other class players against the likes of Palace and Burnley but like many other players in this squad bang average when it comes to international football. I wont mention defence because it is just average, but how many of this squad would start ahead of the so called golden generation: Midfield: Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes Forwards: Rooney, Owen Argument maybe for Bellingham, but half the player Gerrard was for me - as for the rest, they would not get close to any of those players. And yes the golden generation won feck all and were shite and under achievers, and I could agree there was an argument for hopeless management back then, but not now - we are just ok as a squad of players - and whatever you think of the manager he really is managing to polish a turd when you think he managed to get to a WC semi and reach a euros final, and now looks like getting out of the group stages again. He is also correct - we could do with a Phillips type player to give us a bit more balance. That said, this team is coming home early and could get a pasting off one of the tier 1 teams I was going to post something quite similar. I think you can say that you have two players in the England squad who are genuinely world class: a striker who has been the best in his trade in two major European leagues and a midfielder who has been the best in his trade in two major European leagues. I haven't watched any First Division football since we were relegated, but my understanding is that the rest are decent domestic players, some of whom do well in strong teams. They have that in common with the 'golden generation', who were also hyped up to the eyeballs but probably only had Rooney who was world class. I have some gripes over the tactics - I would prefer two pacy players either side of Kane making runs in behind him - but I'm happy to accept that my tactical knowledge is exceeded by a modern professional manager. I think both this team and the golden generation had the same basic problem: they were both teams that appeared to have quite strong individual parts, but they didn't function as a team. It's the lack of any sense of operating as a unit that worries me. Too many misplaced passes into regions where players were missing. A lack of a strategy to play out of the press. Long balls booted out of defence to nobody in particular, even when Watkins was on the pitch. They looked like a group of strangers in comparison to both the Spanish and Italians tonight.
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Post by zommbee on Jun 20, 2024 22:35:33 GMT
Hopefully, the coach and players will respond to the justified criticism from all quarters with a much improved display in the next game. They are all capable of much better performances. We still top the group with our destiny in our own hands.
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Post by smallthorner on Jun 20, 2024 22:46:14 GMT
Quite obvious what the problem is to me.
No natural left back.
No left footed wide player playing on the left.
Simples.
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Post by kustokie on Jun 20, 2024 22:52:42 GMT
Tournaments are not won in the second game in Mexico for example Robson didn’t find his best team until the knock outs , Italy. Are masters at growing into tournaments , yes he needs to make changes , he certainly misses grealish more than his nonsense comments on Phillips but he has the players to improve if he finds the formula doesn’t have them to win it but he missed that chance 4 years ago and in Russia where favourable draws and more balanced squads missed their moment . ps I think I’m the only one who thinks Bellingham is being over hyped he’s a fine player but he doesn’t have the game to control a game he can make decisive contributions be he’s no kroos or modric at their peak where the games plays to their tempo like our own Alan Hudson Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia in their first game of the 2022 World Cup and went on to win the tournament. But I don’t remember them being that bad. In fact I can’t remember anything that bad. It was hideous.
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Post by senojbor on Jun 20, 2024 22:55:13 GMT
We draw a game that's puts us through to the knock outs and people are crying like babies.
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England
Jun 20, 2024 23:05:07 GMT
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jun 20, 2024 23:05:07 GMT
We draw a game that's puts us through to the knock outs and people are crying like babies. It's embarrassing mate isn't it. Poor performance admittedly but the reaction is pathetic, especially that YouTuber posted above. People need to get a grip.
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England
Jun 20, 2024 23:06:22 GMT
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jun 20, 2024 23:06:22 GMT
Quite obvious what the problem is to me. No natural left back. No left footed wide player playing on the left. Simples. Really poor decision not to take a natural left back, even if it means sacrificing on quality. I'd also give Wharton a go alongside Rice.
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Post by outspaced on Jun 20, 2024 23:09:22 GMT
Euro 92 under Graham Taylor was better than this, and that was utter shite. Plus back then we didn't have anywhere near the crop of good players like now. Although there are a couple of similarities.
Gallagher - Carlton Palmer Bowen - Tony Daley
Imagine thinking that when things aren't working and you need to bring on a possible game changer who's bang in form like Palmer, Gordon or Eze and your first thought is Connor fucking Gallagher.
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Post by adri2008 on Jun 20, 2024 23:15:35 GMT
There's been far worse performances than this - it's expectations that have changed. Not so long ago, we'd make an absolute meal getting out of every qualifying/tournament group which is now become a procession.
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Post by PotterLog on Jun 20, 2024 23:36:05 GMT
Get out of an easy group unconvincingly
Edge past somebody rubbish in the 2nd round
Put together a moderately gutsy performance but lose in the quarters.
Already bearing all the hallmarks of a classic old England tournament performance
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Post by Mystic Stokie on Jun 20, 2024 23:43:15 GMT
A bad performance isn't the end of the world, it is the diabolical decision to park the bus every single time that we go one nil up. It is not in the DNA of these players to play that way, so ever likely it's going to end up being a shit show.
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