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Post by PotterLog on Jun 16, 2024 23:56:09 GMT
Feel like Bellingham is our best 8 and 10. Feel like we should him as 8 but somehow feels like a waste at the same time I get that completely but I think we have to just get over the feeling of it being a “waste”. He’s absolutely at his best picking it up deep and driving forward. We have other quality players in the attacking third, and he’ll get forward and join them anyway.
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Post by PotterLog on Jun 16, 2024 23:59:42 GMT
We aren’t going to just roll everybody over and it was a great 3 points v no mugs …..if that was Italy or Spain winning that people would be waxing lyrical re professional job done etc Cmon England The second half was horrific. We won, so I guess got away with it, but dear god that should set alarm bells ringing. Absolutely ragged under the first tiny bit of pressure.
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Post by biddulphchav on Jun 17, 2024 0:34:11 GMT
We won without hitting our straps. A really good sign. Serbia had plenty of the ball but we created the 2 best chances of the match and should really have won 2-0. The number of times I’ve seen Italy do this is insane, and then go on to win the tournament…..
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England
Jun 17, 2024 2:04:53 GMT
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Post by starkiller on Jun 17, 2024 2:04:53 GMT
In what was a great World Cup tournament, Southgate gave us the dullest matches.
He's out to do the same again.
Neutrals across the world must switch off in droves, or not bother at all. Unless they want to watch the opposition, of course.
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Post by billybadger on Jun 17, 2024 4:16:45 GMT
Foden is the new John Barnes,I would play Cole Palmer instead of him against Denmark
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Post by werrington on Jun 17, 2024 4:28:12 GMT
In what was a great World Cup tournament, Southgate gave us the dullest matches. He's out to do the same again. Neutrals across the world must switch off in droves, or not bother at all. Unless they want to watch the opposition, of course. I think your memory is playing tricks on you England 6 iran 2 England 0 USA 0 England 3 Wales 0 England 3 Senegal 0 England 1 France 2 ( in a game we utterly dominated ) I’m no Southgate fan but dullest matches ….seriously?
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Post by Rick Grimes on Jun 17, 2024 5:29:56 GMT
I hope Southgate shelves the TAA in midfield thinking now.
Serbia are no mugs but last night proved that against better sides TAA is having little to no impact in terms of being able to apply pressure to win the ball back. Luckily he had Rice alongside him who winning everything.
Foden felt wasted out wide and Bellingham showed he can do a bit everything including playing deeper.
Get TAA out the side, play Foden and Bellingham centrally and then put Palmer or Gordon out on the left and we’ll be fine.
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Post by maxplonk on Jun 17, 2024 6:11:10 GMT
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England
Jun 17, 2024 6:18:27 GMT
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jun 17, 2024 6:18:27 GMT
Why, they did next to nothing. After the first half hour neither did we They were the better team 2nd half But created nothing, we created two chances and took one.
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Post by theonlooker on Jun 17, 2024 6:22:36 GMT
That midfield needs changing. The forward lads were starved all game. Our best chances came in the first half from wide changeovers with Saka and Walker. Other than that there was nothing in the side. They locked up their midfield and we had no answer. Trippier at left back is seriously starting to wind me up aswell.
TAA isn't a midfielder and he's clearly just there for the set pieces, which is daft as the chief set piece winner in Grealish is sat at home on his sofa.
Fabregas was right after the match when he said none of the midfield could play under pressure (except Bellingham who we know can), where the top players in the past like Xavi and Iniesta could and that will always be the difference. You need players with bravery to take the ball in tight spaces and commit players. Not just players that will panic (like Rice does and TAA does) and just Welly the ball upfield or worse, go missing.
Gallagher isn't the answer either. He's just an energy merchant like Henderson was that just makes the problem worse, and you can see why Southgate brought him on. To run around and match their physicality.
No, no and thrice no. Bring Wharton on who can pass round it. Bring Palmer and Eze on out wide who can stretch teams.
Southgate has to change his mentality, he really does.
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Post by Gifton on Jun 17, 2024 6:24:15 GMT
It was nice hearing Bellingham in the post match interviews, for as long as I remember the players would talk down the prospect of winning. He's a complete breath of fresh air, intelligent, articulate and extremely positive, a genuine leader at 20 years old.
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Post by Gifton on Jun 17, 2024 6:25:44 GMT
That midfield needs changing. The forward lads were starved all game. Our best chances came in the first half from wide changeovers with Saka and Walker. Other than that there was nothing in the side. They locked up their midfield and we had no answer. Trippier at left back is seriously starting to wind me up aswell. TAA isn't a midfielder and he's clearly just there for the set pieces, which is daft as the chief set piece winner in Grealish is sat at home on his sofa. Fabregas was right after the match when he said none of the midfield could play under pressure (except Bellingham who we know can), where the top players in the past like Xavi and Iniesta could and that will always be the difference. You need players with bravery to take the ball in tight spaces and commit players. Not just players that will panic (like Rice does and TAA does) and just Welly the ball upfield or worse, go missing. Gallagher isn't the answer either. He's just an energy merchant like Henderson was that just makes the problem worse, and you can see why Southgate brought him on. To run around and match their physicality. No, no and thrice no. Bring Wharton on who can pass round it. Bring Palmer and Eze on out wide who can stretch teams. Southgate has to change his mentality, he really does. Bring Bellingham back to 8, move Foden to 10 and have Ollie Palmer on the left?
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England
Jun 17, 2024 6:31:13 GMT
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Post by fca47 on Jun 17, 2024 6:31:13 GMT
Some people are saying it is a good sign that we won even though we didn't play well. But we won't play well for 90 minutes under Southgate. He hasn't a clue how to manage a game, he was a poor manager at Middlesbrough and he's a poor England manager, we are in for a disappointing competition with him in charge
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England
Jun 17, 2024 6:31:29 GMT
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Post by theonlooker on Jun 17, 2024 6:31:29 GMT
That midfield needs changing. The forward lads were starved all game. Our best chances came in the first half from wide changeovers with Saka and Walker. Other than that there was nothing in the side. They locked up their midfield and we had no answer. Trippier at left back is seriously starting to wind me up aswell. TAA isn't a midfielder and he's clearly just there for the set pieces, which is daft as the chief set piece winner in Grealish is sat at home on his sofa. Fabregas was right after the match when he said none of the midfield could play under pressure (except Bellingham who we know can), where the top players in the past like Xavi and Iniesta could and that will always be the difference. You need players with bravery to take the ball in tight spaces and commit players. Not just players that will panic (like Rice does and TAA does) and just Welly the ball upfield or worse, go missing. Gallagher isn't the answer either. He's just an energy merchant like Henderson was that just makes the problem worse, and you can see why Southgate brought him on. To run around and match their physicality. No, no and thrice no. Bring Wharton on who can pass round it. Bring Palmer and Eze on out wide who can stretch teams. Southgate has to change his mentality, he really does. Bring Bellingham back to 8, move Foden to 10 and have Ollie Palmer on the left? I think he's just got to get as much football fabric into that midfield as he can to be honest. As well as our defence did last night you just know that it has a mistake in it, it's unbalanced with Trippier at left back etc. The best way for me to get round that is to pass or try and pass teams to death through midfield and choke them out of games as much as possible at this level. That way you take the pressure off the back line as much as you can and you service the front lads. As a side issue, the early high scoring games coupled with a few of the bottom feeders sticking it out with a back 6 (yes Albania) makes me worry that a lot of coaches will just sink into a low block with two 4s or a 5 and a 3 and turn it into a snooze fest. Hence more of a reason to get a ball thirsty midfield out and move teams around.
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England
Jun 17, 2024 6:42:12 GMT
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Post by Gifton on Jun 17, 2024 6:42:12 GMT
Bring Bellingham back to 8, move Foden to 10 and have Ollie Palmer on the left? The best way for me to get round that is to pass or try and pass teams to death through midfield and choke them out of games as much as possible at this level. That way you take the pressure off the back line as much as you can and you service the front lads. I think we did that in midfield for long spells, we just struggled to turn that into actual chances.
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Post by svengaliinplatforms on Jun 17, 2024 6:54:22 GMT
Last night was the first time I'd properly, really, thought that Southgate was our achilles heel.
How on God's green earth we could turn in that second half performance with that side, was something special.
Kane totally starved. Foden looking like a competition winner. A group of 'World Class players' that couldn't string two passes together, or keep the ball for 10 seconds.
Serbia were no mugs, but we've taken players that work at the highest level, under pressure, week in & out, against the best teams in the world - and had them shitting themselves all over the shop.
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England
Jun 17, 2024 6:55:43 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 17, 2024 6:55:43 GMT
Foden is the new John Barnes,I would play Cole Palmer instead of him against Denmark Not sure what happened yesterday but he seemed to want to play it safe and not take on any responsibility often choosing to play a 5 metre pass rather than take on his man. I hope he doesn’t get dropped because I’m a huge fan but I don’t think that Southgate’s his biggest admirer so I can see him being dropped v Denmark. He needs to play centrally for me either in a 4231 Kane Palmer Foden Saka Bellingham Rice Or in a 3421 Kane Foden Saka Trippier Bellingham Rice TAA
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England
Jun 17, 2024 7:26:00 GMT
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Post by hcstokie on Jun 17, 2024 7:26:00 GMT
That midfield needs changing. The forward lads were starved all game. Our best chances came in the first half from wide changeovers with Saka and Walker. Other than that there was nothing in the side. They locked up their midfield and we had no answer. Trippier at left back is seriously starting to wind me up aswell. TAA isn't a midfielder and he's clearly just there for the set pieces, which is daft as the chief set piece winner in Grealish is sat at home on his sofa. Fabregas was right after the match when he said none of the midfield could play under pressure (except Bellingham who we know can), where the top players in the past like Xavi and Iniesta could and that will always be the difference. You need players with bravery to take the ball in tight spaces and commit players. Not just players that will panic (like Rice does and TAA does) and just Welly the ball upfield or worse, go missing. Gallagher isn't the answer either. He's just an energy merchant like Henderson was that just makes the problem worse, and you can see why Southgate brought him on. To run around and match their physicality. No, no and thrice no. Bring Wharton on who can pass round it. Bring Palmer and Eze on out wide who can stretch teams. Southgate has to change his mentality, he really does. Bring Bellingham back to 8, move Foden to 10 and have Ollie Palmer on the left? The lad from Wrexham?
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Post by biglad180 on Jun 17, 2024 7:27:37 GMT
Foden is the new John Barnes,I would play Cole Palmer instead of him against Denmark i have never seen Foden have a good game for England, he should not be in the starting 11
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Post by mickstupp on Jun 17, 2024 7:40:28 GMT
I’m surprised anyone is surprised to be honest. It’s just a mish mash of talented individuals shoe horned into a mess of a starting eleven. No cohesion whatsoever. We’ll get through the group, hopefully get an easy draw in the last 16, and then lose to the first half decent team we come up against.
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Post by Gifton on Jun 17, 2024 7:46:38 GMT
Bring Bellingham back to 8, move Foden to 10 and have Ollie Palmer on the left? The lad from Wrexham? 😂😂😂 I was watching the documentary last night. You know who I'm on about!
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England
Jun 17, 2024 7:48:47 GMT
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Post by pavel on Jun 17, 2024 7:48:47 GMT
That midfield needs changing. The forward lads were starved all game. Our best chances came in the first half from wide changeovers with Saka and Walker. Other than that there was nothing in the side. They locked up their midfield and we had no answer. Trippier at left back is seriously starting to wind me up aswell. TAA isn't a midfielder and he's clearly just there for the set pieces, which is daft as the chief set piece winner in Grealish is sat at home on his sofa. Fabregas was right after the match when he said none of the midfield could play under pressure (except Bellingham who we know can), where the top players in the past like Xavi and Iniesta could and that will always be the difference. You need players with bravery to take the ball in tight spaces and commit players. Not just players that will panic (like Rice does and TAA does) and just Welly the ball upfield or worse, go missing. Gallagher isn't the answer either. He's just an energy merchant like Henderson was that just makes the problem worse, and you can see why Southgate brought him on. To run around and match their physicality. No, no and thrice no. Bring Wharton on who can pass round it. Bring Palmer and Eze on out wide who can stretch teams. Southgate has to change his mentality, he really does. Spot on, I’d put Foden back in the midfield to link the team up and bring Palmer on. Other than that Wharton in midfield. Hopefully Shaw will be back soon but if he isn’t I’d play almost anybody but Trippier. How Palmer didn’t come on as sub was a mystery.
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England
Jun 17, 2024 7:49:00 GMT
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 17, 2024 7:49:00 GMT
Last night was the first time I'd properly, really, thought that Southgate was our achilles heel. How on God's green earth we could turn in that second half performance with that side, was something special. Kane totally starved. Foden looking like a competition winner. A group of 'World Class players' that couldn't string two passes together, or keep the ball for 10 seconds. Serbia were no mugs, but we've taken players that work at the highest level, under pressure, week in & out, against the best teams in the world - and had them shitting themselves all over the shop. At best, we have three world class players in Kane, Foden and Bellingham. Only two of them have ever turned up on the international stage. It’s more than we’ve had in many years, so that’s something though.
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England
Jun 17, 2024 7:49:18 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 17, 2024 7:49:18 GMT
That midfield needs changing. The forward lads were starved all game. Our best chances came in the first half from wide changeovers with Saka and Walker. Other than that there was nothing in the side. They locked up their midfield and we had no answer. Trippier at left back is seriously starting to wind me up aswell. TAA isn't a midfielder and he's clearly just there for the set pieces, which is daft as the chief set piece winner in Grealish is sat at home on his sofa. Fabregas was right after the match when he said none of the midfield could play under pressure (except Bellingham who we know can), where the top players in the past like Xavi and Iniesta could and that will always be the difference. You need players with bravery to take the ball in tight spaces and commit players. Not just players that will panic (like Rice does and TAA does) and just Welly the ball upfield or worse, go missing. Gallagher isn't the answer either. He's just an energy merchant like Henderson was that just makes the problem worse, and you can see why Southgate brought him on. To run around and match their physicality. No, no and thrice no. Bring Wharton on who can pass round it. Bring Palmer and Eze on out wide who can stretch teams. Southgate has to change his mentality, he really does. Bring Bellingham back to 8, move Foden to 10 and have Ollie Palmer on the left? It’s screaming out for this. I really don’t see the issue with moving Bellingham back alongside the excellent Rice. We need someone deeper who’s comfortable on the ball and can bring it forwards and create for those ahead of him. The biggest issue yesterday was that we didn’t have that Rice is excellent defensively but lays it off rather than looks to create and TAA isn’t a DM. If he’s not comfortable with that then bring in Wharton or Mainoo not Gallagher who’s not that great technically which is what we need.
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England
Jun 17, 2024 7:51:34 GMT
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Post by bigvern on Jun 17, 2024 7:51:34 GMT
Bring Bellingham back to 8, move Foden to 10 and have Ollie Palmer on the left? It’s screaming out for this. I really don’t see the issue with moving Bellingham back alongside the excellent Rice. We need someone deeper who’s comfortable on the ball and can bring it forwards and create for those ahead of him. The biggest issue yesterday was that we didn’t have that Rice is excellent defensively but lays it off rather than looks to create and TAA isn’t a DM. If he’s not comfortable with that then bring in Wharton or Mainoo not Gallagher who’s not that great technically which is what we need. Does Foden make the run Bellingham did to score that header? I don't think that's his game.
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England
Jun 17, 2024 7:53:06 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 17, 2024 7:53:06 GMT
Last night was the first time I'd properly, really, thought that Southgate was our achilles heel. How on God's green earth we could turn in that second half performance with that side, was something special. Kane totally starved. Foden looking like a competition winner. A group of 'World Class players' that couldn't string two passes together, or keep the ball for 10 seconds. Serbia were no mugs, but we've taken players that work at the highest level, under pressure, week in & out, against the best teams in the world - and had them shitting themselves all over the shop. At best, we have three world class players in Kane, Foden and Bellingham. Only two of them have ever turned up on the international stage. It’s more than we’ve had in many years, so that’s something though. I think Palmer has potential to be. Really think we’re missing a trick not starting him. I’m not to sure we’re sacrificing too much by playing Bellingham as a 10 when playing him as a 4 could open up more options offensively.
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Post by tcdobinghoff on Jun 17, 2024 8:03:08 GMT
I thought that Fabregas’ comments about the difference between Foden’s and Bellingham’s personalities was interesting after the match. Foden seems to have great talent but last night he didn’t look able or willing to make a positive impact and once or twice made very poor passes. Many people will argue there were good reasons why his impact is stifled and maybe they are right but the managers has to bring this one to a head pretty quickly for me. Change the team to enable Foden to play or drop him out of the equation altogether as a starter. I would give him a chance but he has to prove he has the character to take it. We can’t mess about in the next stage of the tournament.
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England
Jun 17, 2024 8:12:13 GMT
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Post by Olgrligm on Jun 17, 2024 8:12:13 GMT
Reiterating that I haven't really watched England since the last World Cup, haven't watched any top division football since we were relegated and also fell asleep for most of the first half...
I was surprised to see England spend so much of the game lumping it forwards to absolutely nobody. Pickford seemed particularly culpable. There was one instance late on where Foden took down a high ball, let it bounce and then smacked it up the pitch to nobody. Shearer said that this was very impressive, because most players would have just smacked the ball up the pitch to nobody. Speaking of...
What does Foden do? I feel like I must be missing something. Is he a world beater when he plays for Man City?
When you see a player from Palace picked at centre back on merit, it makes you feel slightly aggrieved that Southgate wasn't manager a decade ago; Shawcross would have been a nailed on starter.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2024 8:17:14 GMT
Given our record in Euro opening games, I'll take a win as ugly as it was at times. I do think the midfield was unbalanced though and don't see TAA as a regular in that midfield, I thought Gallagher was more of a presence when he came on but I'd like see Mainoo starting alongside Rice myself. Foden is the headache, on club form he's undroppable but he just doesn't bring that to internationals. Its probably too early to think about leaving him out but we do need some natural width on the left of the team whether it be Gordon or Eze but both are right footed along with Trippier at left back.
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England
Jun 17, 2024 8:20:55 GMT
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Post by foxysgloves on Jun 17, 2024 8:20:55 GMT
That midfield needs changing. The forward lads were starved all game. Our best chances came in the first half from wide changeovers with Saka and Walker. Other than that there was nothing in the side. They locked up their midfield and we had no answer. Trippier at left back is seriously starting to wind me up aswell. TAA isn't a midfielder and he's clearly just there for the set pieces, which is daft as the chief set piece winner in Grealish is sat at home on his sofa. Fabregas was right after the match when he said none of the midfield could play under pressure (except Bellingham who we know can), where the top players in the past like Xavi and Iniesta could and that will always be the difference. You need players with bravery to take the ball in tight spaces and commit players. Not just players that will panic (like Rice does and TAA does) and just Welly the ball upfield or worse, go missing. Gallagher isn't the answer either. He's just an energy merchant like Henderson was that just makes the problem worse, and you can see why Southgate brought him on. To run around and match their physicality. No, no and thrice no. Bring Wharton on who can pass round it. Bring Palmer and Eze on out wide who can stretch teams. Southgate has to change his mentality, he really does. He didn’t say they couldn’t play under pressure, he said they didn’t do it well last night. Rice has come off the back of a season where he was imperious for Arsenal. There is literally no way in the world Arteta picks a player who can’t play under pressure let alone builds a side around him. The problem is when players got the ball in the middle for England in the second half last night they had no options. We sat back and stopped playing on the front foot. Panic set in a bit and it all went to shit.
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