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Post by middleoftheboothen on Aug 3, 2024 8:15:22 GMT
I haven't defended any of the people rioting in any of my posts, not one. I have condemned them in many posts and have said they are fucking idiots. They are taking the headlines when there are normal people at these protests who have genuine concerns who will not be heard because of the idiots. You keep throwing out bullshit at me though if it makes you feel better. If the normal people feel have genuine concerns they should arrange their own peaceful protests and have nothing to do with the rioters. As it is, reports say a lot of those 'normal' people are encouraging the thugs. I agree that there should be peaceful protests for genuine concerns. Unfortunately now the idiots have made it that if any were to be set up then they would be looked at in the same way and the protesters would be looked at as thugs because of what has gone before them.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 15, 2024 6:35:17 GMT
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Post by metalhead on Aug 15, 2024 7:06:23 GMT
It's bizarre how ineffective The Met seem to be during routine police work because when it comes to kicking the shit out of right wing fuck nuggets and enforcing two tier Kiers police standards, they seem extremely effective. Suppose the two things aren't comparable in a real world sense. Proper day to day police work requires competent and effective officers. 15 years of Tory cuts on top of an already creaking and corrupted police force has probably laid waste to that. What you have now is a bottom barrel police force. Give a bunch of goons some bats and shields and they'll absolutely do a job on the big away day; it's a bit like a day out for a football firm. No chance of them effectively policing society though. Need funding. Need the bad apples rooting out. Need to be apolitical. Won't get any better otherwise.
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Post by stuammo on Aug 15, 2024 7:33:11 GMT
It's bizarre how ineffective The Met seem to be during routine police work because when it comes to kicking the shit out of right wing fuck nuggets and enforcing two tier Kiers police standards, they seem extremely effective. Suppose the two things aren't comparable in a real world sense. Proper day to day police work requires competent and effective officers. 15 years of Tory cuts on top of an already creaking and corrupted police force has probably laid waste to that. What you have now is a bottom barrel police force. Give a bunch of goons some bats and shields and they'll absolutely do a job on the big away day; it's a bit like a day out for a football firm. No chance of them effectively policing society though. Need funding. Need the bad apples rooting out. Need to be apolitical. Won't get any better otherwise. While you are right in all your points above there are many other factors that have led to police forces across the country not doing what normal members of the public expect. Funding is massive because the vast majority of police funding is spent on salaries so reduce that and the only way to meet budgets is to reduce staff and that invariably produces reduced and poorer output. However the way the media and the public have behaved to the police have made it an almost impossible task. There’s almost daily negative stories about the police and they are very much in a position of can’t do right for doing wrong. There will always be someone. The society we live in has caused this to happen and now we no longer have any effective deterrent to criminals and there is no respect for law enforcement. So will I agree with your points there are far more areas that need tackling at the same time to restore British policing.
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Post by emretezzy on Aug 15, 2024 7:35:54 GMT
No surprises there. In other news it's Thursday. The utopia some of you believe we live in is unravelling at a rate of knots.
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Post by elystokie on Aug 15, 2024 7:43:38 GMT
No surprises there. In other news it's Thursday. The utopia some of you believe we live in is unravelling at a rate of knots. After 14 years of corrupt incompetent government you think people are saying we live in a Utopia? That's made my day 😂
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Post by emretezzy on Aug 15, 2024 7:58:58 GMT
No surprises there. In other news it's Thursday. The utopia some of you believe we live in is unravelling at a rate of knots. After 14 years of corrupt incompetent government you think people are saying we live in a Utopia? That's made my day 😂 The government of the last 14 years have been beyond fucking dreadful. These clowns seem intent on carrying that on mind. Which is why I can't believe people run round saying there isn't problems or things need sorting. You did a post the other day, which was utter drivel about 1920s Chicago or something and that we shouldn't even bother with knife crime as it costs too much money.
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Post by emretezzy on Aug 15, 2024 8:03:10 GMT
No surprises there. In other news it's Thursday. The utopia some of you believe we live in is unravelling at a rate of knots. After 14 years of corrupt incompetent government you think people are saying we live in a Utopia? That's made my day 😂 You were either pissed or writing season 6 of Line Of Duty when you said everyone should just give up and were banging on about the Mafia for some reason about 100 years ago. "So why couldn't America? How d'you think the Mafia came about? D'you think drug gangs don't have people working for them in the police? The prisons are full, where are we going to put all the people this 'strong police force' arrest? There's an easier way than spending upwards of £20 billion a year to have little to no effect as other countries have shown."
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Post by elystokie on Aug 15, 2024 8:17:19 GMT
After 14 years of corrupt incompetent government you think people are saying we live in a Utopia? That's made my day 😂 You were either pissed or writing season 6 of Line Of Duty when you said everyone should just give up and were banging on about the Mafia for some reason about 100 years ago. "So why couldn't America? How d'you think the Mafia came about? D'you think drug gangs don't have people working for them in the police? The prisons are full, where are we going to put all the people this 'strong police force' arrest? There's an easier way than spending upwards of £20 billion a year to have little to no effect as other countries have shown." It was to do with drug prohibition and a comparison with alcohol prohibition, which had exactly the same effect and disastrous consequences. Sorry that wasn't clear enough for you 🤷
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Post by emretezzy on Aug 15, 2024 8:18:32 GMT
You were either pissed or writing season 6 of Line Of Duty when you said everyone should just give up and were banging on about the Mafia for some reason about 100 years ago. "So why couldn't America? How d'you think the Mafia came about? D'you think drug gangs don't have people working for them in the police? The prisons are full, where are we going to put all the people this 'strong police force' arrest? There's an easier way than spending upwards of £20 billion a year to have little to no effect as other countries have shown." It was to do with drug prohibition and a comparison with alcohol prohibition, which had exactly the same effect and disastrous consequences. Sorry that wasn't clear enough for you 🤷 No it wasn't. You were having an argument with yourself about the Mafia.
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Post by elystokie on Aug 15, 2024 8:38:04 GMT
It was to do with drug prohibition and a comparison with alcohol prohibition, which had exactly the same effect and disastrous consequences. Sorry that wasn't clear enough for you 🤷 No it wasn't. You were having an argument with yourself about the Mafia. I was replying to someone. I would spend time assessing it and trying to ascertain why it wasn't clear enough but nobody else seems to have complained they couldn't grasp it so I won't bother
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Post by cobhamstokey on Aug 15, 2024 9:38:37 GMT
It's bizarre how ineffective The Met seem to be during routine police work because when it comes to kicking the shit out of right wing fuck nuggets and enforcing two tier Kiers police standards, they seem extremely effective. Suppose the two things aren't comparable in a real world sense. Proper day to day police work requires competent and effective officers. 15 years of Tory cuts on top of an already creaking and corrupted police force has probably laid waste to that. What you have now is a bottom barrel police force. Give a bunch of goons some bats and shields and they'll absolutely do a job on the big away day; it's a bit like a day out for a football firm. No chance of them effectively policing society though. Need funding. Need the bad apples rooting out. Need to be apolitical. Won't get any better otherwise. While you are right in all your points above there are many other factors that have led to police forces across the country not doing what normal members of the public expect. Funding is massive because the vast majority of police funding is spent on salaries so reduce that and the only way to meet budgets is to reduce staff and that invariably produces reduced and poorer output. However the way the media and the public have behaved to the police have made it an almost impossible task. There’s almost daily negative stories about the police and they are very much in a position of can’t do right for doing wrong. There will always be someone. The society we live in has caused this to happen and now we no longer have any effective deterrent to criminals and there is no respect for law enforcement. So will I agree with your points there are far more areas that need tackling at the same time to restore British policing. Spot on.
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Post by wannabee on Aug 21, 2024 21:58:50 GMT
Just over a year after the Casey Report which identified institutionalized racisism within Met Police a BBC Report from Black Officers declare things have got worse www.bbc.com/news/articles/crger07nx4loUndoubtedly it will be disputed but it is based upon actual Black serving Met Police Officers personal experiences Are they Bad Apples or are those they are accusing Bad Apples. Whichever is the correct answer it identifies an organization with discordant views amongst its ranks which can only lead to a dysfunctional organization
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Post by metalhead on Aug 22, 2024 20:03:41 GMT
Just over a year after the Casey Report which identified institutionalized racisism within Met Police a BBC Report from Black Officers declare things have got worse www.bbc.com/news/articles/crger07nx4loUndoubtedly it will be disputed but it is based upon actual Black serving Met Police Officers personal experiences Are they Bad Apples or are those they are accusing Bad Apples. Whichever is the correct answer it identifies an organization with discordant views amongst its ranks which can only lead to a dysfunctional organization There are clearly huge problems in the Met... They're almost certainly corrupt from top to bottom and it's hard to challenge the fact that it's almost certainly got it's problems with racism. However..... I do tend to take these kind of 'anecdotal' articles with a certain pinch of salt. "We spoke to 10 BAME people who work in a racist organisation and they told us it's racist, look at us... We're journalists". I am not saying it's dishonest but if you want to print an article that safely suits your agenda, this is that kind of journalism you would look to approach. Go and find 10 people likely to say the story you want to print and print it. It doesn't make the story false but it isn't exactly the highest quality journalism either. If GB News published a story like this promoting whatever bullshit they're pushing today.... They would be laughed out the building. It's confirmation bias lazy journalism, even if it holds some truth. The Met representatives are desperate to apologise because they know any denial would also be seen as racist. They are in an uncomfortable position considering their employer has problems with racists, thugs and corruption.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Aug 22, 2024 20:16:14 GMT
Just over a year after the Casey Report which identified institutionalized racisism within Met Police a BBC Report from Black Officers declare things have got worse www.bbc.com/news/articles/crger07nx4loUndoubtedly it will be disputed but it is based upon actual Black serving Met Police Officers personal experiences Are they Bad Apples or are those they are accusing Bad Apples. Whichever is the correct answer it identifies an organization with discordant views amongst its ranks which can only lead to a dysfunctional organization There are clearly huge problems in the Met... They're almost certainly corrupt from top to bottom and it's hard to challenge the fact that it's almost certainly got it's problems with racism. However..... I do tend to take these kind of 'anecdotal' articles with a certain pinch of salt. "We spoke to 10 BAME people who work in a racist organisation and they told us it's racist, look at us... We're journalists". I am not saying it's dishonest but if you want to print an article that safely suits your agenda, this is that kind of journalism you would look to approach. Go and find 10 people likely to say the story you want to print and print it. It doesn't make the story false but it isn't exactly the highest quality journalism either. If GB News published a story like this promoting whatever bullshit they're pushing today.... They would be laughed out the building. It's confirmation bias lazy journalism, even if it holds some truth. The Met representatives are desperate to apologise because they know any denial would also be seen as racist. They are in an uncomfortable position considering their employer has problems with racists, thugs and corruption. Spot on.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 22, 2024 20:48:04 GMT
Just over a year after the Casey Report which identified institutionalized racisism within Met Police a BBC Report from Black Officers declare things have got worse www.bbc.com/news/articles/crger07nx4loUndoubtedly it will be disputed but it is based upon actual Black serving Met Police Officers personal experiences Are they Bad Apples or are those they are accusing Bad Apples. Whichever is the correct answer it identifies an organization with discordant views amongst its ranks which can only lead to a dysfunctional organization There are clearly huge problems in the Met... They're almost certainly corrupt from top to bottom and it's hard to challenge the fact that it's almost certainly got it's problems with racism. However..... I do tend to take these kind of 'anecdotal' articles with a certain pinch of salt. "We spoke to 10 BAME people who work in a racist organisation and they told us it's racist, look at us... We're journalists". I am not saying it's dishonest but if you want to print an article that safely suits your agenda, this is that kind of journalism you would look to approach. Go and find 10 people likely to say the story you want to print and print it. It doesn't make the story false but it isn't exactly the highest quality journalism either. If GB News published a story like this promoting whatever bullshit they're pushing today.... They would be laughed out the building. It's confirmation bias lazy journalism, even if it holds some truth. The Met representatives are desperate to apologise because they know any denial would also be seen as racist. They are in an uncomfortable position considering their employer has problems with racists, thugs and corruption. On top of the Casey Report they merely add the icing on the cake though. The GB news analogy would only work if they were following up a 363 independent review of the topic in hand.........
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Post by wannabee on Aug 22, 2024 21:59:36 GMT
Just over a year after the Casey Report which identified institutionalized racisism within Met Police a BBC Report from Black Officers declare things have got worse www.bbc.com/news/articles/crger07nx4loUndoubtedly it will be disputed but it is based upon actual Black serving Met Police Officers personal experiences Are they Bad Apples or are those they are accusing Bad Apples. Whichever is the correct answer it identifies an organization with discordant views amongst its ranks which can only lead to a dysfunctional organization There are clearly huge problems in the Met... They're almost certainly corrupt from top to bottom and it's hard to challenge the fact that it's almost certainly got it's problems with racism. However..... I do tend to take these kind of 'anecdotal' articles with a certain pinch of salt. "We spoke to 10 BAME people who work in a racist organisation and they told us it's racist, look at us... We're journalists". I am not saying it's dishonest but if you want to print an article that safely suits your agenda, this is that kind of journalism you would look to approach. Go and find 10 people likely to say the story you want to print and print it. It doesn't make the story false but it isn't exactly the highest quality journalism either. If GB News published a story like this promoting whatever bullshit they're pushing today.... They would be laughed out the building. It's confirmation bias lazy journalism, even if it holds some truth. The Met representatives are desperate to apologise because they know any denial would also be seen as racist. They are in an uncomfortable position considering their employer has problems with racists, thugs and corruption. I completely agree that the BBC Article is hardly exhaustive but it relates the experience of actual serving Police Officers experiences just over a year after the Casey Report which found the Met to be Institutionally Racist. Casey is just the latest Report dating back to MacPherson which reached exactly the same conclusion. You can go back further to the Mangrove Nine. Is this coincidence or can you say things have changed? Besides these Reports we have recent published statistical evidence that BAME people are over represented by Stop and Search, Strip Searches shockingly of Children, Breaches of Covid restrictions many of these are casual racism but are essentially abuse of power. While i agreed at the outset that the BBC Article is anecdotal how many Official Reports and Published Statistics over a period of more than 50 years does it take to acknowledge the fundamental reality that very little has changed and the Met Police is Institutionally Racist.
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 22, 2024 23:36:48 GMT
Until the Met acknowledges the true nature and extent of its failings it will continue to perpetuate them.
By failing to face up to reality, the leaders of the Met are letting down those officers who do try to carry out their duties properly.
The public will not fully trust an organisation that refuses to be honest about its need to change.
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Post by wannabee on Aug 23, 2024 1:35:46 GMT
Until the Met acknowledges the true nature and extent of its failings it will continue to perpetuate them. By failing to face up to reality, the leaders of the Met are letting down those officers who do try to carry out their duties properly. The public will not fully trust an organisation that refuses to be honest about its need to change. You have fully expressed the words i failed to find.
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Post by metalhead on Aug 23, 2024 6:20:40 GMT
On top of the Casey Report they merely add the icing on the cake though. The GB news analogy would only work if they were following up a 363 independent review of the topic in hand......... I'm not doubting it's legitimacy, I just question what it adds to the table. What were people expecting? The Casey Report discussed radical change and so far I haven't really seen any. That in itself is a real problem and should be the message. I suspect there may have been some minor change, hopefully for the better, but it isn't really going to fix a problem as big as The Met. This article doesn't really provide much of an objective insight into what's actually going on. Who's making the decisions etc.... Maybe they'll do an article where they interview 10 right wing fuck nuggets about their objective experience of recent Met policing? I completely agree that the BBC Article is hardly exhaustive but it relates the experience of actual serving Police Officers experiences just over a year after the Casey Report which found the Met to be Institutionally Racist. Casey is just the latest Report dating back to MacPherson which reached exactly the same conclusion. You can go back further to the Mangrove Nine. Is this coincidence or can you say things have changed? Besides these Reports we have recent published statistical evidence that BAME people are over represented by Stop and Search, Strip Searches shockingly of Children, Breaches of Covid restrictions many of these are casual racism but are essentially abuse of power. While i agreed at the outset that the BBC Article is anecdotal how many Official Reports and Published Statistics over a period of more than 50 years does it take to acknowledge the fundamental reality that very little has changed and the Met Police is Institutionally Racist. As I said, I'm not disagreeing with. I just don't really see what the BBC article gives us, other than yet another 10 people saying what we already know. They interviewed 10 people very likely to give them a quote that backed up the message in the article. It seems the BBC are less interested in digging into the really nasty public facing side of the police though. iaingould.co.uk/2023/03/27/my-thoughts-on-the-casey-report/This is an interesting blog post from a solicitor who often goes against the police. I would have thought the stuff he mentions is absolutely newsworthy yet it is very rarely reported unless it involves a certain viral video involving two very violent young men at an airport.... Perhaps if the BBC focussed less on the anecdotes of serving police officers and more on civilians getting hurt by brutal police tactics, there would be a greater focus on change.
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Post by wannabee on Aug 23, 2024 9:45:21 GMT
On top of the Casey Report they merely add the icing on the cake though. The GB news analogy would only work if they were following up a 363 independent review of the topic in hand......... I'm not doubting it's legitimacy, I just question what it adds to the table. What were people expecting? The Casey Report discussed radical change and so far I haven't really seen any. That in itself is a real problem and should be the message. I suspect there may have been some minor change, hopefully for the better, but it isn't really going to fix a problem as big as The Met. This article doesn't really provide much of an objective insight into what's actually going on. Who's making the decisions etc.... Maybe they'll do an article where they interview 10 right wing fuck nuggets about their objective experience of recent Met policing? I completely agree that the BBC Article is hardly exhaustive but it relates the experience of actual serving Police Officers experiences just over a year after the Casey Report which found the Met to be Institutionally Racist. Casey is just the latest Report dating back to MacPherson which reached exactly the same conclusion. You can go back further to the Mangrove Nine. Is this coincidence or can you say things have changed? Besides these Reports we have recent published statistical evidence that BAME people are over represented by Stop and Search, Strip Searches shockingly of Children, Breaches of Covid restrictions many of these are casual racism but are essentially abuse of power. While i agreed at the outset that the BBC Article is anecdotal how many Official Reports and Published Statistics over a period of more than 50 years does it take to acknowledge the fundamental reality that very little has changed and the Met Police is Institutionally Racist. As I said, I'm not disagreeing with. I just don't really see what the BBC article gives us, other than yet another 10 people saying what we already know. They interviewed 10 people very likely to give them a quote that backed up the message in the article. It seems the BBC are less interested in digging into the really nasty public facing side of the police though. iaingould.co.uk/2023/03/27/my-thoughts-on-the-casey-report/This is an interesting blog post from a solicitor who often goes against the police. I would have thought the stuff he mentions is absolutely newsworthy yet it is very rarely reported unless it involves a certain viral video involving two very violent young men at an airport.... Perhaps if the BBC focussed less on the anecdotes of serving police officers and more on civilians getting hurt by brutal police tactics, there would be a greater focus on change. People can view reports/articles differently but have the same ultimate viewpoint, no shame in that. Casey's Report was largely related to how the Met interact with the Public, as is the Gould Article you linked. The BBC Article was a small sample of how BAME Met Police Officers are treated by their fellow Police Officers it doesn't take a genius to join the dots that if Met Police Officers are Racist towards their colleagues and that is the culture that prevails they will be at least equally Racist towards the Public they serve. To quote a passage by Gould quoting Casey " Instead the Met preferred to pretend that their own perpetrators of unconscionable crimes were just ‘bad apples’, or not police officers at all. So throughout this review, I have asked myself time and again, if these crimes cannot prompt that self-reflection and reform, then what will it take?” And herein lies the problem, if the Met doesn't recognize and accept the size of the problem nothing will change What Gould and what the BBC Article is saying is that more than one year on nothing has changed Casey acknowledged that a proportion of Met Police, not just a few bad apples , are attracted to the Met because they can practice Racist, Homophobic and Misogynistic behavior without the likelyhood of sanction or expulsion. She urged a complete overhaul of the vetting procedures to root out those within and to stop new entrants. Has this happened, not to my knowledge. Casey was sceptical of the Met being capable of undertaking the kind of reforms needed and proposed a 2/5 year period to review but ultimately her solution was to break up the Met into 3 component parts. Gould is suggesting a Patten type Commission like the PSNI. With respect the BBC Article is more likely to reach a wider audience than Gould's and keep the issue in the public consciousness that little or nothing has changed.
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Post by metalhead on Aug 23, 2024 17:20:57 GMT
The Met simply needs breaking up. It's a massive organisation. 45k employee according to Google.
Three or four smaller forces is what is required.
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Post by metalhead on Aug 24, 2024 14:54:01 GMT
Any update on those lads who scrapped the police at an airport a few months back? Seen plenty of right wing fuck heads going down recently.
I assume these dickheads are awaiting trial?
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Post by iancransonsknees on Aug 24, 2024 16:56:21 GMT
Absolute fucking wankstains.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Aug 29, 2024 9:17:36 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Aug 29, 2024 10:59:58 GMT
Do you expect Starmer to comment on every single incident? Is there going to be a Carnival next week we should be concerned similar criminal behaviour will occur An what is this two tier nonsense The most serious incident involving the Lady, 3 people were arrested indicated not Guilty pleas at Magistrates Court, which isn't a high enough Court to deal with such a serious crime and were remanded into custody Of the 61 incidents the Met had this to say We can now confirm that over the two days of Notting Hill Carnival, there were 61 incidents where officers were assaulted - 24 on Sunday and 37 on Monday.The assaults mostly involved kicks, punches or pushes. There were four incidents where officers were spat at, two where where officers were headbutted and two where officers had glass bottles thrown at them.Like the rioters they will all have their day in Court, if they plead Guilty they will be punished accordingly. Of the 349 arrested those facing more serious offences are likely to be in Police Holding Cells and won't be brought to Court if they are likely to face a Prison sentence, until a vacancy opens up because the previous Government failed to build enough Prison spaces This is exactly how the rioters were treated, can you tell me how this is Two Tier? news.met.police.uk/news/notting-hill-carnival-update-on-incidents-and-arrests-487332#:~:text=There%20were%20349%20arrests%20over,Sunday%20and%20247%20on%20Monday.
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Post by mrnovember on Sept 6, 2024 16:45:37 GMT
Airport incident update.
Why might there be criminal proceedings against the person who leaked the CCTV footage to the MEN? Seems odd.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 6, 2024 17:18:47 GMT
Airport incident update. Why might there be criminal proceedings against the person who leaked the CCTV footage to the MEN? Seems odd. Blimey. Sounds a bit authoritarian. A common theme recently..
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Post by wannabee on Sept 6, 2024 20:42:10 GMT
Airport incident update. Why might there be criminal proceedings against the person who leaked the CCTV footage to the MEN? Seems odd. It's unsurprising that MEN refused to reveal their source The reason IOPC are interested to find out who leaked the CCTV Footage is because an allegation has been made that it was a Police Officer which is a Criminal offence during a Police Investigation and could jeopardise a prosecution .
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Post by Ariel Manto on Sept 6, 2024 20:47:19 GMT
If you deliberately underfund and subsequently cut a service to beyond it's core then don't be surprised when that service fails. It is pointless blaming the Police for rioting. Blame the rioters. Over 1,000 arrests and sentences handed out for the riots is the right way to meter out justice. The Police should always just film rioting until life is in danger.
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