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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 21, 2022 19:07:16 GMT
But yet the Russians torturously grind on. They don’t appear to have any concern for human life and if this turns into an attritional slog unfortunately the Russians will continue to make progress. I fear the Wests interest and stomach for the fight will wane and the Russians persistence will win out That's what I'm worried about mate. The US could easily afford another $100 billion which should be enough. But after November the republicans might feel that they can get away with stopping the support. I can't tell yet what will win: they love money for defence companies and flexing about US weapons so maybe they'll help. But they also love authoritarian strong men violently suppressing "weaker" groups, punishing LGBT people, and white Christians dominance so they might also block support.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 21, 2022 20:02:10 GMT
That's what I'm worried about mate. The US could easily afford another $100 billion which should be enough. But after November the republicans might feel that they can get away with stopping the support. I can't tell yet what will win: they love money for defence companies and flexing about US weapons so maybe they'll help. But they also love authoritarian strong men violently suppressing "weaker" groups, punishing LGBT people, and white Christians dominance so they might also block support. Yeah, Ukraine has problems with corruption. IMO the choice is weapons & aid, which will give them a chance to continue cleaning up, or leave millions to be controlled by a far more corrupt state with many innocent civilians being tortured, raped and murdered. I expect to hear a lot more trying to emphasise corruption in Ukraine. It's the sort of publicly acceptable excuse that pro-authorotarian Western politicians will use to argue that Putin should be allowed to do whatever the fuck he wants to the innocent.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 21, 2022 20:16:45 GMT
Hope for a deal to export Ukrainian grainHard to know the full details but this looks good, 20-30 million tonnes of food could now get out. NATO supplied weapons have forced Russia out of the western Black Sea. Maybe this helped persuade Putin to weaken his starvation strategy? I'll believe it when the ships are moving though.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 23, 2022 12:43:50 GMT
Fuck Russia
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 24, 2022 15:03:03 GMT
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 24, 2022 16:06:52 GMT
A good reason why we have to keep an eye on politics at home in the West. If Europe had pulled the plug already and crashed economies everywhere, more baby Putins would be in power. At least Hungary is a pretty little fish.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 27, 2022 6:59:44 GMT
While it's good to see such widespread support for the Ukrainians caught in the crossfire who are suffering day in day out, there is definitely something a little weird and cringe about some of the recent publicity stunts supporting Ukraine... Ie Zelensky and his missus doing Vogue photo shoots, Zelensky appearing at Glastonbury, virtue signalling celebs like Ellie Goulding and Bono visiting and performing at government events - While not missing out on an opportunity to get out their "climate emergency" message. Ben Stiller even managed to get out there for a quick photo shoot.
There also seems to be zero interest in covering stories of the young Russian teenagers who are being slaughtered en masse at the orders of a dictator.
Do we always have to have this Hollywood type coverage for every single event in this day and age?
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 27, 2022 7:44:51 GMT
While it's good to see such widespread support for the Ukrainians caught in the crossfire who are suffering day in day out, there is definitely something a little weird and cringe about some of the recent publicity stunts supporting Ukraine... Ie Zelensky and his missus doing Vogue photo shoots, Zelensky appearing at Glastonbury, virtue signalling celebs like Ellie Goulding and Bono visiting and performing at government events - While not missing out on an opportunity to get out their "climate emergency" message. Ben Stiller even managed to get out there for a quick photo shoot. There also seems to be zero interest in covering stories of the young Russian teenagers who are being slaughtered en masse at the orders of a dictator. Do we always have to have this Hollywood type coverage for every single event in this day and age? Actually, this stuff is very important in keeping Ukraine high in politician’s priorities. Putin knows democracies are fickle. Once something moves into the background politicians can do things they can’t do when it is front and centre. He hopes that will happen soon and his task in Ukraine will become that much easier as Western priorities shift reflecting what will satisfy public opinion. The most obvious being what happens when fuel prices rises further this winter. So, this band wagon jumping celebs, nauseas and cringe inducing as they are, do serve a function.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 27, 2022 15:37:26 GMT
While it's good to see such widespread support for the Ukrainians caught in the crossfire who are suffering day in day out, there is definitely something a little weird and cringe about some of the recent publicity stunts supporting Ukraine... Ie Zelensky and his missus doing Vogue photo shoots, Zelensky appearing at Glastonbury, virtue signalling celebs like Ellie Goulding and Bono visiting and performing at government events - While not missing out on an opportunity to get out their "climate emergency" message. Ben Stiller even managed to get out there for a quick photo shoot. There also seems to be zero interest in covering stories of the young Russian teenagers who are being slaughtered en masse at the orders of a dictator. Do we always have to have this Hollywood type coverage for every single event in this day and age? Actually, this stuff is very important in keeping Ukraine high in politician’s priorities. Putin knows democracies are fickle. Once something moves into the background politicians can do things they can’t do when it is front and centre. He hopes that will happen soon and his task in Ukraine will become that much easier as Western priorities shift reflecting what will satisfy public opinion. The most obvious being what happens when fuel prices rises further this winter. So, this band wagon jumping celebs, nauseas and cringe inducing as they are, do serve a function. I think that's why some people sneer at "virtue signalling". We're basically a bunch of apes copying what we think will make us popular with the people we want. If something you hate is getting popular, you can try to undermine it by calling it virtue signalling. In parts of the US it's rolling coal, messing with pollution controls so you can show how little you care about other people. In other parts it's posting about a big gay rainbow cake you baked even though you don't actually have any LGBT friends. Even just posting on here "fuck X" is a kind of virtue signalling IMO.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 27, 2022 15:42:51 GMT
4 weeks since Ukraine withdrew from the last big town in Luhansk.
Things I've noticed since then: 1. HIMARS! Western missile launchers have been whacking the Russians like crazy. Ammo dumps, command centres and AA launchers going down.
2. Russians are shooting a lot less and are barely making ground in the east.
3. Ukraine is retaking some villages in the south and keeps hitting bridges there.
4. Weapons helped clear out the Russians from Snake Island so grain should be getting out of Ukraine soon.
IMO the new thing to watch is #3. Ukraine is trying to cut off the Russian army in Kherson, the biggest occupied city outside the eastern regions. Constant rumours that they'll try to go for it before Christmas.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Jul 28, 2022 9:30:31 GMT
4 weeks since Ukraine withdrew from the last big town in Luhansk. Things I've noticed since then: 1. HIMARS! Western missile launchers have been whacking the Russians like crazy. Ammo dumps, command centres and AA launchers going down. 2. Russians are shooting a lot less and are barely making ground in the east. 3. Ukraine is retaking some villages in the south and keeps hitting bridges there. 4. Weapons helped clear out the Russians from Snake Island so grain should be getting out of Ukraine soon. IMO the new thing to watch is #3. Ukraine is trying to cut off the Russian army in Kherson, the biggest occupied city outside the eastern regions. Constant rumours that they'll try to go for it before Christmas. On point 3, if they take that back, will the Russians resort to using more aggressive measures to try and take it back (potentially nuclear). Surely there is a massive risk of escalation if they do take it back.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 28, 2022 12:16:13 GMT
Well I think it's safe to say that this is the first time a president has posed for a Vogue photoshoot whilst a war is going on around him......
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Post by noustie on Jul 28, 2022 12:21:14 GMT
Well I think it's safe to say that this is the first time a president has posed for a Vogue photoshoot whilst a war is going on around him...... On Bake Off next doing a big 'Fuck You Russia' Victoria Sponge even though it's Bread Week apparently.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 28, 2022 12:25:09 GMT
Well I think it's safe to say that this is the first time a president has posed for a Vogue photoshoot whilst a war is going on around him...... It's not a good look in my opinion. Surely pretty inappropriate?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 28, 2022 12:41:28 GMT
Well I think it's safe to say that this is the first time a president has posed for a Vogue photoshoot whilst a war is going on around him...... It's not a good look in my opinion. Surely pretty inappropriate? I tend to agree......
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Post by noustie on Jul 28, 2022 14:02:52 GMT
It's a bit 'Wag the Dog' for my liking.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 28, 2022 15:30:04 GMT
It's not a good look in my opinion. Surely pretty inappropriate? I tend to agree...... I doubt it’s done with people like you in mind. Like I said before, Zelinsky knows that when the West starts to lose interest in the Ukraine his country is fucked, and that as Western public opinion is so fickle he needs to find ways to keep his country’s profile high. This is part of that effort. And he’s done a good job so far imo. I suspect Putin is content to sit tight for a while and wait for General Winter to come to his aid (aided by General Gas of course). So time is critical just now for Ukraine. They still need plenty of help as they go on the offensive.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 28, 2022 15:43:55 GMT
It's not a good look in my opinion. Surely pretty inappropriate? I tend to agree...... It all seems a bit ridiculous but the Zelenskyys know that western support is crucial and obviously judged the pros were bigger than the cons. The Trumpy folk I follow have kicked up a stink about the Vogue photoshoot and they just regurgitate pro-Putin shite so the Russians obviously think this could be a big propaganda win. It's a bit sad that this "inappropriate" thing is getting more shit from some people than literal torture chambers the Russians are running.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 28, 2022 15:47:02 GMT
I doubt it’s done with people like you in mind. Like I said before, Zelinsky knows that when the West starts to lose interest in the Ukraine his country is fucked, and that as Western public opinion is so fickle he needs to find ways to keep his country’s profile high. This is part of that effort. And he’s done a good job so far imo. I suspect Putin is content to sit tight for a while and wait for General Winter to come to his aid (aided by General Gas of course). So time is critical just now for Ukraine. They still need plenty of help as they go on the offensive. A mild winter in Europe and the US is desperately needed. But based on our luck over the last decade it's gonna be absolutely shite.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 28, 2022 16:15:46 GMT
I doubt it’s done with people like you in mind. Like I said before, Zelinsky knows that when the West starts to lose interest in the Ukraine his country is fucked, and that as Western public opinion is so fickle he needs to find ways to keep his country’s profile high. This is part of that effort. And he’s done a good job so far imo. I suspect Putin is content to sit tight for a while and wait for General Winter to come to his aid (aided by General Gas of course). So time is critical just now for Ukraine. They still need plenty of help as they go on the offensive. If argue it’s already losing interest fairly rapidly……
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 28, 2022 17:19:29 GMT
It all seems a bit ridiculous but the Zelenskyys know that western support is crucial and obviously judged the pros were bigger than the cons. The Trumpy folk I follow have kicked up a stink about the Vogue photoshoot and they just regurgitate pro-Putin shite so the Russians obviously think this could be a big propaganda win. It's a bit sad that this "inappropriate" thing is getting more shit from some people than literal torture chambers the Russians are running. In fairness it doesn't do him any favours. I'm not sure your average Brit looks up to the likes of Ellie Goulding, Ben Stiller or the latest insta shots from Vogue. Your average teenage girl maybe. It will lose him more than it will gain. He should stick to more relateable propaganda. Along with real stories of Ukrainian suffering, I'd like to see some media coverage on the young Russian teenagers being murdered by their dictator. I think that would be more powerful than seeing Zelensky taking the stage at Glastonbury and climate emergency statements from billionaire celebs using Ukrainian and Russian suffering to portray their virtue to the rest of the world.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 28, 2022 19:04:04 GMT
It all seems a bit ridiculous but the Zelenskyys know that western support is crucial and obviously judged the pros were bigger than the cons. The Trumpy folk I follow have kicked up a stink about the Vogue photoshoot and they just regurgitate pro-Putin shite so the Russians obviously think this could be a big propaganda win. It's a bit sad that this "inappropriate" thing is getting more shit from some people than literal torture chambers the Russians are running. In fairness it doesn't do him any favours. I'm not sure your average Brit looks up to the likes of Ellie Goulding, Ben Stiller or the latest insta shots from Vogue. Your average teenage girl maybe. It will lose him more than it will gain. He should stick to more relateable propaganda. Along with real stories of Ukrainian suffering, I'd like to see some media coverage on the young Russian teenagers being murdered by their dictator. I think that would be more powerful than seeing Zelensky taking the stage at Glastonbury and climate emergency statements from billionaire celebs using Ukrainian and Russian suffering to portray their virtue to the rest of the world. Some fair points there. I don't know what would work best but they need to consider all the angles here. New videos just came out showing Russians torturing Ukrainian prisoners of war. Absolutely disgusting stuff, wouldn't be surprised to see the Russian regiment get some honour from Putin soon, just like Bucha.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 28, 2022 19:58:12 GMT
The latest video is Russians pinning down a Ukrainian prisoner, tearing his trousers off as they stomp on his head, then castrating him with a box cutter.
Every bit of occupied Ukraine is going to see more of this. The only way to stop this is enough weapons and ammo to kick those Russians out.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 28, 2022 21:48:55 GMT
In fairness it doesn't do him any favours. I'm not sure your average Brit looks up to the likes of Ellie Goulding, Ben Stiller or the latest insta shots from Vogue. Your average teenage girl maybe. It will lose him more than it will gain. He should stick to more relateable propaganda. Along with real stories of Ukrainian suffering, I'd like to see some media coverage on the young Russian teenagers being murdered by their dictator. I think that would be more powerful than seeing Zelensky taking the stage at Glastonbury and climate emergency statements from billionaire celebs using Ukrainian and Russian suffering to portray their virtue to the rest of the world. Some fair points there. I don't know what would work best but they need to consider all the angles here. New videos just came out showing Russians torturing Ukrainian prisoners of war. Absolutely disgusting stuff, wouldn't be surprised to see the Russian regiment get some honour from Putin soon, just like Bucha. Which is true enough. Although the likelihood is the same is happening on the other side. Seeing that clip a few months back of a young Russian lad being taken hostage (he looked about 16) with cartoon characters on his t shirt (he's literally a child) was equally as horrifying. War is as always as horrifying for both sides. Evil and good exists on both sides. The war has to end and right now, no one has a fucking clue how we can end it.
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Post by foster on Jul 28, 2022 21:51:54 GMT
Some fair points there. I don't know what would work best but they need to consider all the angles here. New videos just came out showing Russians torturing Ukrainian prisoners of war. Absolutely disgusting stuff, wouldn't be surprised to see the Russian regiment get some honour from Putin soon, just like Bucha. Which is true enough. Although the likelihood is the same is happening on the other side. Seeing that clip a few months back of a young Russian lad being taken hostage (he looked about 16) with cartoon characters on his t shirt (he's literally a child) was equally as horrifying. War is as always as horrifying for both sides. Evil and good exists on both sides. The war has to end and right now, no one has a fucking clue how we can end it. If there was proper will and a concerted effort I reckon we could. Unfortunately the dependency on Russia is costing Ukrainian lives.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jul 28, 2022 22:52:16 GMT
Which is true enough. Although the likelihood is the same is happening on the other side. Seeing that clip a few months back of a young Russian lad being taken hostage (he looked about 16) with cartoon characters on his t shirt (he's literally a child) was equally as horrifying. War is as always as horrifying for both sides. Evil and good exists on both sides. The war has to end and right now, no one has a fucking clue how we can end it. If there was proper will and a concerted effort I reckon we could. Unfortunately the dependency on Russia is costing Ukrainian lives. And Russian lives. Putin needs to die, its as simple as that. While he remains alive, his destruction is limitless. As you say, the West's dependence on him is not helpful and he knows winter is coming ⛄🥶
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Post by foster on Jul 28, 2022 22:59:33 GMT
If there was proper will and a concerted effort I reckon we could. Unfortunately the dependency on Russia is costing Ukrainian lives. And Russian lives. Putin needs to die, its as simple as that. While he remains alive, his destruction is limitless. As you say, the West's dependence on him is not helpful and he knows winter is coming ⛄🥶 GOTs predicted this would happen, but in the end the white walkers lost.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 29, 2022 8:09:54 GMT
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/29/putin-ruble-west-sanctions-russia-europeReally interesting article. Not saying i agree with it, but sanctions by the west seem to have hit the west harder than anyone else, while Putin and Russia see a boom in trade with India, China and Iran. What do we do? Double down on sanctions? Introduce them on India, China and Iran too? Really, we all need to become more self sufficient in the west and leas reliant on (mainly oil and gas) from dictators (including from the Middle East). I suspect that had we invested in green energy off the back of the global financial crash our economy would be thriving like no other right now, and our energy costs would be low.
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Post by noustie on Jul 29, 2022 8:56:15 GMT
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/29/putin-ruble-west-sanctions-russia-europeReally interesting article. Not saying i agree with it, but sanctions by the west seem to have hit the west harder than anyone else, while Putin and Russia see a boom in trade with India, China and Iran. What do we do? Double down on sanctions? Introduce them on India, China and Iran too? Really, we all need to become more self sufficient in the west and leas reliant on (mainly oil and gas) from dictators (including from the Middle East). I suspect that had we invested in green energy off the back of the global financial crash our economy would be thriving like no other right now, and our energy costs would be low. ukparliament.shorthandstories.com/renewable-energy-scotland-SAC-report/index.htmlThere's the potential there for it to be much easbier to supply ourselves but the cutting in funding on renewables at UK level and Scotland virtue signalling over not licensing new fields whilst flogging off sea bed leases for wind turbines on the cheap are both fucking stupid especially now with 20 20 hindsight.
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Post by superjw on Jul 29, 2022 8:58:13 GMT
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/29/putin-ruble-west-sanctions-russia-europeReally interesting article. Not saying i agree with it, but sanctions by the west seem to have hit the west harder than anyone else, while Putin and Russia see a boom in trade with India, China and Iran. What do we do? Double down on sanctions? Introduce them on India, China and Iran too? Really, we all need to become more self sufficient in the west and leas reliant on (mainly oil and gas) from dictators (including from the Middle East). I suspect that had we invested in green energy off the back of the global financial crash our economy would be thriving like no other right now, and our energy costs would be low. The sanctions were always going to hit the west harder than Russia. We may as well have sanctioned ourselves tbh. I agree about energy self sufficiency, the UK simply should not be relying on any country for her energy. We should have invested in Nuclear decades ago and done more with Wind/Hydro/Solar.
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