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Post by thevoid on Jun 21, 2022 13:49:29 GMT
Yep what a mess we are compared to say our nearest biggest club Derby? Or Leicester? Or Forest? We need to step away from this mentality of “Don’t be unhappy, it could be worse” Praise be, we're not in administration
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 21, 2022 13:50:01 GMT
But he got it, Holden is a manager. He's managed a Championship side. We got a recruitment bloke in that he presumably wanted, then he got another one. He's got the help. My issue with the structure is that they are his appointments, they shouldn't be. What other help does he need? The thing I was alluding to I guess was more of a Rudge/Francis type. But other than that he's had it all and had it on his terms. Not sure to say that Holden is a manager so bluntly. He failed in the step up, which is why he’s back down to Assistant Manager in a mid table Championship team. I'm fine with him picking his own assistant but other appointments should have come from outside his circle and be at least equal in seniority and experience to the manager to provide a different perspective on a range of issues and provide a continuity of ethos. Realistically I don't want the manager picking the DoF, HFO, Sporting director, I want them providing reccomendations to the board on managers who might be available to us that fit the club ethos.
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Post by thevoid on Jun 21, 2022 13:55:29 GMT
Look at theonlookers posts. It's laughable. Of course the manager can be questioned. We're a championship club and the chances of employing a manager that makes a certain number of mistakes is reasonably high. I'm just not prepared to keep blindly pointing at the manager as the root of all evil at the club, the sole reason why we are failing etc. If you and others are then fair enough. That's your choice. The managers are merely a symptom
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Post by dirtclod on Jun 21, 2022 14:39:02 GMT
That's not conducive to making the structure work though is it? Employing one of the manager's scouts as DoF or HFO or whatever is changing the titles not changing the structure. We're still left with a God manager structure. It's not but it makes him even more to blame. There is a structure there and it's one he's employed to. It makes him more culpable. It's a terrible thing to do but he's had the help. Agree, it's a "he signed up for it" situation. Doesn't mean the situation is correct, but he signed up for it, as did the previous set of managers. And we have long agreed that something in the structure of this club is amiss. I think there's too much riding on the manager's call and don't believe that getting 5 duds is just down to bad luck. MON is also culpable in the way he has used people once they're here. Both in tactics and structure. The one that drives me crazy is him thinking that a pure DM will "slow things down." Uh...yeah, we need SOMEONE who can slow down opposing teams defensively! If a DM slows down our play too much then quit passing to him! But you NEED them to be a "black hole" for opposition plays. I'm now beginning to wonder if he's a martinet of some sort because he has had the help. Or, if the help may be too easily "persuaded?"
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Post by a on Jun 22, 2022 8:54:43 GMT
Derby? Or Leicester? Or Forest? We need to step away from this mentality of “Don’t be unhappy, it could be worse” Praise be, we're not in administration I’m grateful to Peter Coates for all he’s done for the club, but he’s been at the wheel during our rise and also our demise. Anyone thinking our position now compared to 2016-17 season is anything other than awful (standings, player contracts, club ‘power’) is accepting of mediocrity because ‘it could be worse’ or ‘we used to be Div 3’ or ‘bigger clubs are in a worse position’, whereas I look back at how we became established at the top table and managed to not only balls it up with bad decision making, but also probably leave us floundering in mid to lower second division for the foreseeable.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jun 22, 2022 9:05:03 GMT
Praise be, we're not in administration I’m grateful to Peter Coates for all he’s done for the club, but he’s been at the wheel during our rise and also our demise. Anyone thinking our position now compared to 2016-17 season is anything other than awful (standings, player contracts, club ‘power’) is accepting of mediocrity because ‘it could be worse’ or ‘we used to be Div 3’ or ‘bigger clubs are in a worse position’, whereas I look back at how we became established at the top table and managed to not only balls it up with bad decision making, but also probably leave us floundering in mid to lower second division for the foreseeable. I think Peter Coates has been too nice and patient with managers (Hughes), and he has also backed them when he probably should have put his foot down (Wimmer + several Rowett signings). Still I think he has always wanted the best for our club, and done what he has thought was the best for the club at that time. In hindsight it's always easy to point at mistakes, but as said, nothing has been wrong with the man's intentions. I'm really happy we have owners who support the club and who are from the area, and who want to do their best for the club. Where would we have been without the Coates family? In my opinion I hope they will remain as our owners for a long long time.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 22, 2022 10:23:32 GMT
Meh. We signed a young, exciting player to replace McClean as Tymon hadn’t done much for years. Doughty then gets fit and Tymon has a good season. Tymon loses form, Doughty gets Covid. Tymon regains form then loses it again as Doughty gets an injury.
We loan Doughty out for more game time, he gets an injury.
We sell him for a price that is likely even with regards to FFP, probably because he petitioned for more game time than we could now offer.
We move on.
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Post by LGH87 on Jun 22, 2022 11:00:12 GMT
Derby? Or Leicester? Or Forest? We need to step away from this mentality of “Don’t be unhappy, it could be worse” Praise be, we're not in administration Luton paid £500kNot sure if this has been posted previously but they seem to think Luton paid £500k for Doughty which, all things considered isn't bad business by us.
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Post by a on Jun 22, 2022 12:13:46 GMT
I’m grateful to Peter Coates for all he’s done for the club, but he’s been at the wheel during our rise and also our demise. Anyone thinking our position now compared to 2016-17 season is anything other than awful (standings, player contracts, club ‘power’) is accepting of mediocrity because ‘it could be worse’ or ‘we used to be Div 3’ or ‘bigger clubs are in a worse position’, whereas I look back at how we became established at the top table and managed to not only balls it up with bad decision making, but also probably leave us floundering in mid to lower second division for the foreseeable. I think Peter Coates has been too nice and patient with managers (Hughes), and he has also backed them when he probably should have put his foot down (Wimmer + several Rowett signings). Still I think he has always wanted the best for our club, and done what he has thought was the best for the club at that time. In hindsight it's always easy to point at mistakes, but as said, nothing has been wrong with the man's intentions. I'm really happy we have owners who support the club and who are from the area, and who want to do their best for the club. Where would we have been without the Coates family? In my opinion I hope they will remain as our owners for a long long time. Absolutely Rob I agree wholeheartedly, it doesn’t mean we can’t be frustrated or disappointed with how we’ve gone from being established in the Prem to scrabbling around for Bosmans and loans where we once had the ‘luxury’ of wasting millions on Wimmer etc. As I say mate I’ll be forever grateful to PC for what he’s done, but I’m also annoyed at how we’ve messed up the opportunity to avoid our situation and further messed up the parachute payments.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2022 12:19:27 GMT
Praise be, we're not in administration Luton paid £500kNot sure if this has been posted previously but they seem to think Luton paid £500k for Doughty which, all things considered isn't bad business by us. How much did we pay for him?
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 22, 2022 12:38:30 GMT
Luton paid £500kNot sure if this has been posted previously but they seem to think Luton paid £500k for Doughty which, all things considered isn't bad business by us. How much did we pay for him? Something like £650k. When you take a year off his contract and consider that ffp accounts consider the value of a transaction to be split equally over each year of the contract, we likely didn’t lose a penny that matters (other than wages).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2022 12:44:55 GMT
I think Peter Coates has been too nice and patient with managers (Hughes), and he has also backed them when he probably should have put his foot down (Wimmer + several Rowett signings). Still I think he has always wanted the best for our club, and done what he has thought was the best for the club at that time. In hindsight it's always easy to point at mistakes, but as said, nothing has been wrong with the man's intentions. I'm really happy we have owners who support the club and who are from the area, and who want to do their best for the club. Where would we have been without the Coates family? In my opinion I hope they will remain as our owners for a long long time. Absolutely Rob I agree wholeheartedly, it doesn’t mean we can’t be frustrated or disappointed with how we’ve gone from being established in the Prem to scrabbling around for Bosmans and loans where we once had the ‘luxury’ of wasting millions on Wimmer etc. As I say mate I’ll be forever grateful to PC for what he’s done, but I’m also annoyed at how we’ve messed up the opportunity to avoid our situation and further messed up the parachute payments. We backed managers who spent it poorly. If we don't back managers you get criticised, unfortunately Rowett in particular spent a hefty amount he was given to earn us a quick return on below par players. We're far from the first team to do that . Boro spent more than us after relegation and still in the same boat as us. Is done and history now. Thankfully we're rid of the last of those mistakes at last it seems and steadied the finance issue.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jun 22, 2022 12:55:50 GMT
I think Peter Coates has been too nice and patient with managers (Hughes), and he has also backed them when he probably should have put his foot down (Wimmer + several Rowett signings). Still I think he has always wanted the best for our club, and done what he has thought was the best for the club at that time. In hindsight it's always easy to point at mistakes, but as said, nothing has been wrong with the man's intentions. I'm really happy we have owners who support the club and who are from the area, and who want to do their best for the club. Where would we have been without the Coates family? In my opinion I hope they will remain as our owners for a long long time. Absolutely Rob I agree wholeheartedly, it doesn’t mean we can’t be frustrated or disappointed with how we’ve gone from being established in the Prem to scrabbling around for Bosmans and loans where we once had the ‘luxury’ of wasting millions on Wimmer etc. As I say mate I’ll be forever grateful to PC for what he’s done, but I’m also annoyed at how we’ve messed up the opportunity to avoid our situation and further messed up the parachute payments. I promise you, nobody was more disappointed than me when we were relegated from the Premiership. Still this is a club I've followed for almost 50 years now, and it will always have an impact on my life and my mood. Anyway it's good to know we won't end up as Derby because of the people who own the club.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2022 12:58:07 GMT
Absolutely Rob I agree wholeheartedly, it doesn’t mean we can’t be frustrated or disappointed with how we’ve gone from being established in the Prem to scrabbling around for Bosmans and loans where we once had the ‘luxury’ of wasting millions on Wimmer etc. As I say mate I’ll be forever grateful to PC for what he’s done, but I’m also annoyed at how we’ve messed up the opportunity to avoid our situation and further messed up the parachute payments. I promise you, nobody was more disappointed than me when we were relegated from the Premiership. Still this is a club I've followed for almost 50 years now, and it will always hav an impact on my life and my mood. Anyway it's good to know we won't end up as Derby because of the people who own the club. Absolutely. Those who moan re the owners really can't see what going on around them. One or two do seem confused by most thing though it seems 😃
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2022 13:03:53 GMT
How much did we pay for him? Something like £650k. When you take a year off his contract and consider that ffp accounts consider the value of a transaction to be split equally over each year of the contract, we likely didn’t lose a penny that matters (other than wages). I'll take that to be fair, works for both parties.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 2, 2022 22:18:13 GMT
Some things never change....
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Post by robwahlmann on Aug 3, 2022 7:26:03 GMT
Think we were lucky to get him offloaded, always injured!
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