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Post by Gary Hackett on Jun 20, 2022 20:12:24 GMT
So thats all last summer's marquee signings that arent fit for purpose -Surridge, Wilmot and now Doughty. It's as if we sign players without actually knowing anything about them, what their attitudes are like or how they'll fit into the team. It really is piss poor management. Ditto pretty much any loan signing we have made in 4 years in this division. All joking apart we'd do better with a pin and a blindfold! It's the owners fault for not seeing this and getting rid before he makes any more mistakes.
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Post by iamstokie on Jun 20, 2022 20:14:39 GMT
Ditto pretty much any loan signing we have made in 4 years in this division. All joking apart we'd do better with a pin and a blindfold! It's the owners fault for not seeing this and getting rid before he makes any more mistakes. MoN shouldn’t be trusted with any money , his signings have mostly been awful
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Post by mickstupp on Jun 20, 2022 20:19:37 GMT
I liked him from what I saw, but ultimately I get the feeling, like a lot of our players, that he’s just a bit too frail, weak and injury prone to succeed at this level. Shit happens.
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Post by theonlooker on Jun 20, 2022 20:20:02 GMT
Ditto pretty much any loan signing we have made in 4 years in this division. All joking apart we'd do better with a pin and a blindfold! It's the owners fault for not seeing this and getting rid before he makes any more mistakes. It's what happens when you don't have a proper process in place for years, realise you need one and lump everything on the manager's shoulders to get one up and running. Not only will the manager fill the roles with his men, it will take a while to bed in and you won't get everything right first time. There will be hits and misses and sometimes more misses than hits. Ideally, you need the owners to realise what they need, drive the change and fill the roles with the people THEY want. The only upside, and it's a major upside, is the rules we seem to be setting down for ourselves. One year deals for over 30s, with a one year option. Only spending money (relatively modest amounts) on players under 24 and subsidising those with young loans. Our first two 'big money' failures have pretty much broke even, and I dare say we'll make a profit on Brown. As a backstop, I don't think that's all bad given the manager started from a standing start.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 20, 2022 20:25:43 GMT
More spin than a fucking gyroscope.
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Post by wakeypotter on Jun 20, 2022 20:27:22 GMT
It's the owners fault for not seeing this and getting rid before he makes any more mistakes. It's what happens when you don't have a proper process in place for years, realise you need one and lump everything on the manager's shoulders to get one up and running. Not only will the manager fill the roles with his men, it will take a while to bed in and you won't get everything right first time. There will be hits and misses and sometimes more misses than hits. Ideally, you need the owners to realise what they need, drive the change and fill the roles with the people THEY want. The only upside, and it's a major upside, is the rules we seem to be setting down for ourselves. One year deals for over 30s, with a one year option. Only spending money (relatively modest amounts) on players under 24 and subsidising those with young loans. Our first two 'big money' failures have pretty much broke even, and I dare say we'll make a profit on Brown. As a backstop, I don't think that's all bad given the manager started from a standing start. Come on I’ve sussed you your Michael O’Neil arnt you
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Post by wilcopotter on Jun 20, 2022 20:59:26 GMT
I can just see him now as he turns away from the Boothen after scoring the last minute winning goal when mad Nath returns again this season.
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Post by insideright on Jun 20, 2022 21:16:15 GMT
You lot make me laugh! Alfie Doughty was worth a punt but turn out to be shit. If you compare the transfer business of our last 4 managers any of the others would have needed to spend 400M quid to get a player like Baker. This guy has spent nothing yet he's improved us (granted there's a way to go yet) the last lot spunked our entire premier league legacy between them!!
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Post by nonameface on Jun 20, 2022 21:20:29 GMT
All of which may be true but he has clearly signed at least two players he has subsequently decided he didn’t fancy at all - neither having really being given a chance to prove anything. Suggests that whatever background work is being done ain’t the best. Throw in a lot of players that have come through the doors and proved to be mediocre at best and it leaves me feeling there is still a lot to be done before they can say they have got to grips with the issue. Having said that I suppose you have to remember MONs relative inexperience in club management and hope that things will improve as per the likes of Baker. Think the Surridge one was more baffling as we clearly didn’t have a clue how to actually use him, despite all his stats suggesting he was a very good value finisher (if you could live with his limitations). Still hardly the worst signing in the world as we pretty much got our money back. The Doughty signing I can’t really fault - young player, loads of pace, highly rated in the league below - the only real question mark was the hamstring injury and that was arguably priced into his fee. At the time Tymon wasn’t living up to his potential and we were desperately short of pace so think it made complete sense to sign him. No one would have predicted how well Tymon had kicked on, and maybe he wouldn’t have if not for the kick up the arse of Doughty being ready to step in at the moment his level dropped? Far too much common sense going on in this post. Surridge is presently in the premier league, so he wasn't all that bad of a signing. Tymon made much more progress than expected and so Doughty wasnt going to get a game moving forward. Wilmott has looked fair value so far.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 20, 2022 21:30:14 GMT
Think the Surridge one was more baffling as we clearly didn’t have a clue how to actually use him, despite all his stats suggesting he was a very good value finisher (if you could live with his limitations). Still hardly the worst signing in the world as we pretty much got our money back. The Doughty signing I can’t really fault - young player, loads of pace, highly rated in the league below - the only real question mark was the hamstring injury and that was arguably priced into his fee. At the time Tymon wasn’t living up to his potential and we were desperately short of pace so think it made complete sense to sign him. No one would have predicted how well Tymon had kicked on, and maybe he wouldn’t have if not for the kick up the arse of Doughty being ready to step in at the moment his level dropped? Far too much common sense going on in this post. Surridge is presently in the premier league, so he wasn't all that bad of a signing. Tymon made much more progress than expected and so Doughty wasnt going to get a game moving forward. Wilmott has looked fair value so far. Tymon desperately needed a rest at times last season and he couldn’t/wouldn’t trust Doughty to come in for him even as rotation. Surridge being a Premier League player is irrelevant, Pericard was one once. He wasn’t suited to how the manager wanted to play, he was a very odd signing.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jun 20, 2022 21:37:39 GMT
All of which may be true but he has clearly signed at least two players he has subsequently decided he didn’t fancy at all - neither having really being given a chance to prove anything. Suggests that whatever background work is being done ain’t the best. Throw in a lot of players that have come through the doors and proved to be mediocre at best and it leaves me feeling there is still a lot to be done before they can say they have got to grips with the issue. Having said that I suppose you have to remember MONs relative inexperience in club management and hope that things will improve as per the likes of Baker. Think the Surridge one was more baffling as we clearly didn’t have a clue how to actually use him, despite all his stats suggesting he was a very good value finisher (if you could live with his limitations). Still hardly the worst signing in the world as we pretty much got our money back. The Doughty signing I can’t really fault - young player, loads of pace, highly rated in the league below - the only real question mark was the hamstring injury and that was arguably priced into his fee. At the time Tymon wasn’t living up to his potential and we were desperately short of pace so think it made complete sense to sign him. No one would have predicted how well Tymon had kicked on, and maybe he wouldn’t have if not for the kick up the arse of Doughty being ready to step in at the moment his level dropped? Far too sensible……you want blocking 😁
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 20, 2022 21:50:23 GMT
Odd signing. Looks to me like an old school winger and maybe we hoped he might convert to a left wing back to challenge Tymon. Never really looked like that was his game and not helped by the fact that Tymon actually stepped up last season. Probably best for all concerned for him to move on.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 20, 2022 21:55:28 GMT
All of which may be true but he has clearly signed at least two players he has subsequently decided he didn’t fancy at all - neither having really being given a chance to prove anything. Suggests that whatever background work is being done ain’t the best. Throw in a lot of players that have come through the doors and proved to be mediocre at best and it leaves me feeling there is still a lot to be done before they can say they have got to grips with the issue. Having said that I suppose you have to remember MONs relative inexperience in club management and hope that things will improve as per the likes of Baker. Think the Surridge one was more baffling as we clearly didn’t have a clue how to actually use him, despite all his stats suggesting he was a very good value finisher (if you could live with his limitations). Still hardly the worst signing in the world as we pretty much got our money back. The Doughty signing I can’t really fault - young player, loads of pace, highly rated in the league below - the only real question mark was the hamstring injury and that was arguably priced into his fee. At the time Tymon wasn’t living up to his potential and we were desperately short of pace so think it made complete sense to sign him. No one would have predicted how well Tymon had kicked on, and maybe he wouldn’t have if not for the kick up the arse of Doughty being ready to step in at the moment his level dropped? That was the whole point though - when it did drop the manager didn’t trust Doughty to step in.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 20, 2022 22:06:06 GMT
You lot make me laugh! Alfie Doughty was worth a punt but turn out to be shit. If you compare the transfer business of our last 4 managers any of the others would have needed to spend 400M quid to get a player like Baker. This guy has spent nothing yet he's improved us (granted there's a way to go yet) the last lot spunked our entire premier league legacy between them!! I’m sorry but wasting money now when we don’t have any is as bad if not worse. We need to make sure as best we can that the money spent is spent wisely as it so scarce. We spent 2m on a striker that didn’t fit the way he wanted to play. We spent 750k on a winger we didn’t need and that was coming back from a massive injury. There’s no defending either transfer.
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Post by marwood on Jun 20, 2022 22:20:19 GMT
Tymon you fucking bastard! Stop improving with every game
You’re making the manager look shit
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 20, 2022 22:22:51 GMT
Tymon you fucking bastard! Stop improving with every game You’re making the manager look shit What’s Tymon got to do with it? He’s shown no desire to play him as a left wing back really has he?
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Post by a on Jun 20, 2022 22:34:37 GMT
Basket case of a club. 🤦🏻♂️ Yep what a mess we are compared to say our nearest biggest club Derby? Or Leicester? Or Forest? We need to step away from this mentality of “Don’t be unhappy, it could be worse”
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Post by hyaduck on Jun 20, 2022 22:48:53 GMT
It's the owners fault for not seeing this and getting rid before he makes any more mistakes. MoN shouldn’t be trusted with any money , his signings have mostly been awful Well said youth!!!!!
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Post by theonlooker on Jun 20, 2022 22:51:50 GMT
So hang on a minute?
Hughes signed Joselu to replace Crouch and he couldn't do it whilst moving his one decent striker to right back.
Rowett signed Afobe for 12M to play a role he couldn't do.
Jones 'signed' Vokes for 7M for a high pressing, winger less system.
O'Neill signed Surridge for a role he couldn't do?
The lack of intelligence in and amongst the so called intelligentsia on here to spot a basic bloody pattern is startling, is it not?
4 different managers, 5 different calendar years, two different divisions, three different spending profiles all making the same mistakes?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 20, 2022 23:07:15 GMT
So hang on a minute? Hughes signed Joselu to replace Crouch and he couldn't do it whilst moving his one decent striker to right back. Rowett signed Afobe for 12M to play a role he couldn't do. Jones 'signed' Vokes for 7M for a high pressing, winger less system. O'Neill signed Surridge for a role he couldn't do? The lack of intelligence in and amongst the so called intelligentsia on here to spot a basic bloody pattern is startling, is it not? 4 different managers, 5 different calendar years, two different divisions, three different spending profiles all making the same mistakes? Who are you suggesting made these mistakes then? Shit managers making shit decisions. Looks pretty reasonable to me.
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Post by theonlooker on Jun 20, 2022 23:14:12 GMT
So hang on a minute? Hughes signed Joselu to replace Crouch and he couldn't do it whilst moving his one decent striker to right back. Rowett signed Afobe for 12M to play a role he couldn't do. Jones 'signed' Vokes for 7M for a high pressing, winger less system. O'Neill signed Surridge for a role he couldn't do? The lack of intelligence in and amongst the so called intelligentsia on here to spot a basic bloody pattern is startling, is it not? 4 different managers, 5 different calendar years, two different divisions, three different spending profiles all making the same mistakes? Who are you suggesting made these mistakes then? Shit managers making shit decisions. Looks pretty reasonable to me. I often sit and wonder just how many more 'shit' managers we have to rifle through.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jun 20, 2022 23:35:54 GMT
More spin than a fucking gyroscope. Its okay, "shit happens"
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 20, 2022 23:38:50 GMT
Who are you suggesting made these mistakes then? Shit managers making shit decisions. Looks pretty reasonable to me. I often sit and wonder just how many more 'shit' managers we have to rifle through. For most clubs, in most divisions, all but three managers will be considered shit by some (or much) of their support. The next good manager will be the one that gets us promoted. That may be a while.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jun 20, 2022 23:40:29 GMT
So hang on a minute? Hughes signed Joselu to replace Crouch and he couldn't do it whilst moving his one decent striker to right back. Rowett signed Afobe for 12M to play a role he couldn't do. Jones 'signed' Vokes for 7M for a high pressing, winger less system. O'Neill signed Surridge for a role he couldn't do? The lack of intelligence in and amongst the so called intelligentsia on here to spot a basic bloody pattern is startling, is it not? 4 different managers, 5 different calendar years, two different divisions, three different spending profiles all making the same mistakes? So who's responsible if not the person at the head of recruitment decisions and the set ups used for those players to operate in?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 21, 2022 5:09:42 GMT
Who are you suggesting made these mistakes then? Shit managers making shit decisions. Looks pretty reasonable to me. I often sit and wonder just how many more 'shit' managers we have to rifle through. How many have the Coates’ employed since the 80s? 3 have been successful?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 21, 2022 5:27:27 GMT
So hang on a minute? Hughes signed Joselu to replace Crouch and he couldn't do it whilst moving his one decent striker to right back. Rowett signed Afobe for 12M to play a role he couldn't do. Jones 'signed' Vokes for 7M for a high pressing, winger less system. O'Neill signed Surridge for a role he couldn't do? The lack of intelligence in and amongst the so called intelligentsia on here to spot a basic bloody pattern is startling, is it not? 4 different managers, 5 different calendar years, two different divisions, three different spending profiles all making the same mistakes? So who's responsible if not the person at the head of recruitment decisions and the set ups used for those players to operate in? Exactly. Afobe was Rowett’s stated top target. Surridge was recruited under a totally different recruitment team. Who are we saying is signing these players?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 21, 2022 5:29:51 GMT
Tymon you fucking bastard! Stop improving with every game You’re making the manager look shit What’s Tymon got to do with it? He’s shown no desire to play him as a left wing back really has he? Yep. It’s a complete red herring, there were times when Tymon badly needed a rest last season and he went with Fox (!) or flogged Tymon into the ground.
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Post by theonlooker on Jun 21, 2022 5:33:27 GMT
So hang on a minute? Hughes signed Joselu to replace Crouch and he couldn't do it whilst moving his one decent striker to right back. Rowett signed Afobe for 12M to play a role he couldn't do. Jones 'signed' Vokes for 7M for a high pressing, winger less system. O'Neill signed Surridge for a role he couldn't do? The lack of intelligence in and amongst the so called intelligentsia on here to spot a basic bloody pattern is startling, is it not? 4 different managers, 5 different calendar years, two different divisions, three different spending profiles all making the same mistakes? So who's responsible if not the person at the head of recruitment decisions and the set ups used for those players to operate in? The manager is responsible and is always responsible at this club. Sit back and think about it. Realise that any manager employed by these owners is always going to have limitations, always going to be a pragmatic type, always going to be a bit broken in parts. Sit back and recognise that the one we have is probably at the better end of those types of appointments, but also realise that any manager employed by these owners is going to be restricted in parts by the way they run the show. There isn't a manager out there at this level that doesn't make mistakes, doesn't sign a bad player and there certainly isn't a Coates family appointment that doesn't. History proves it. Take a step back and look at them all and the decisions they've made dotted in and around the infrequent good times spanning 10+ years. Unless of course you believe in fairies and that Nathan Jones had a brain transplant when he left Luton to take out his brain and another one to have it re-inserted when he rejoined them, for example, or Rowett really was an excellent talent spotter and wasted 50M+ because he had something inserted into his tea. Take it from someone who sat on here regularly last summer calling for this managers head before slowly looking at things and realising that.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 21, 2022 5:36:25 GMT
Tymon you fucking bastard! Stop improving with every game You’re making the manager look shit What’s Tymon got to do with it? He’s shown no desire to play him as a left wing back really has he? The Tina Turner track which never made it on to the album
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Post by Championship Potter on Jun 21, 2022 5:57:00 GMT
Think the Surridge one was more baffling as we clearly didn’t have a clue how to actually use him, despite all his stats suggesting he was a very good value finisher (if you could live with his limitations). Still hardly the worst signing in the world as we pretty much got our money back. The Doughty signing I can’t really fault - young player, loads of pace, highly rated in the league below - the only real question mark was the hamstring injury and that was arguably priced into his fee. At the time Tymon wasn’t living up to his potential and we were desperately short of pace so think it made complete sense to sign him. No one would have predicted how well Tymon had kicked on, and maybe he wouldn’t have if not for the kick up the arse of Doughty being ready to step in at the moment his level dropped? That was the whole point though - when it did drop the manager didn’t trust Doughty to step in. He didn’t but he’s also the bloke that watches him in training every day and should have a better idea than anyone of whether he’s capable of stepping in. If he goes on and has a blinder of a season at Luton then the manager definitely deserves some criticism.
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