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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 25, 2021 12:41:11 GMT
Comparing 2021 with 2018 is a nonsense. The world is still largely in the grip of a pandemic as any cursory glance at the statistics will tell you. Look at Australia. Look at Japan where there are protests at holding the paralympics in the middle of a pandemic. Many countries are still suffering badly. In 2018 we were enjoying a post referendum export boom, as world trade was at record levels. It is clearly going to take years to get back to that level. 2018 UK exports were at record levels only exceeded by 2019. As I said in my previous post look at the value of the £ and FTSE, or do you believe "the city" are in denial about Brexit? If anyone is manic about Brexit, it is remainers. The Guardian and Independant are trawling every day for the latest "disaster" that is destroying the country. So far we have had fishing, dairy products exports, touring musicians, students studying abroad, and now we can blame empty shelves on Brexit due to a lorry driver shortage. Everyone involved in the transport industry says the problem has gone on for years, and has only been brought to a head by the pandemic, travel restrictions, drivers "retiring" from long distance haulage, yes Brexit, and tax changes in April. I'm sure the G and I are busy now trying to find something else to blame Brexit for. As for Christianity and the EU there is a view about that you may find difficult to comprehend. This is an old video from circa 2014, but what is going on today between the EU Commission and Hungary and Poland suggests it is still relevant maybe. Just to be clear post-Brexit the issues have got a hell of a lot worse, it is the main driving factor followed by IR35. The drivers leaving the industry were being backfilled by agency drivers previously, yes it's an artificial fix for a lot of reasons already debated but we could quite easily man all of our vehicles day and night 5, 6 or even 7 days a week if necessary. Now anything between 10-20% of the fleet can be stood on a daily basis despite increases in hourly rates, bonuses being offered etc. You may want to defend Brexit come what may and that's fine but you can't airbrush the reality as I sit here now........
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 25, 2021 15:03:04 GMT
Comparing 2021 with 2018 is a nonsense. The world is still largely in the grip of a pandemic as any cursory glance at the statistics will tell you. Look at Australia. Look at Japan where there are protests at holding the paralympics in the middle of a pandemic. Many countries are still suffering badly. In 2018 we were enjoying a post referendum export boom, as world trade was at record levels. It is clearly going to take years to get back to that level. 2018 UK exports were at record levels only exceeded by 2019. As I said in my previous post look at the value of the £ and FTSE, or do you believe "the city" are in denial about Brexit? If anyone is manic about Brexit, it is remainers. The Guardian and Independant are trawling every day for the latest "disaster" that is destroying the country. So far we have had fishing, dairy products exports, touring musicians, students studying abroad, and now we can blame empty shelves on Brexit due to a lorry driver shortage. Everyone involved in the transport industry says the problem has gone on for years, and has only been brought to a head by the pandemic, travel restrictions, drivers "retiring" from long distance haulage, yes Brexit, and tax changes in April. I'm sure the G and I are busy now trying to find something else to blame Brexit for. As for Christianity and the EU there is a view about that you may find difficult to comprehend. This is an old video from circa 2014, but what is going on today between the EU Commission and Hungary and Poland suggests it is still relevant maybe. Just to be clear post-Brexit the issues have got a hell of a lot worse, it is the main driving factor followed by IR35. The drivers leaving the industry were being backfilled by agency drivers previously, yes it's an artificial fix for a lot of reasons already debated but we could quite easily man all of our vehicles day and night 5, 6 or even 7 days a week if necessary. Now anything between 10-20% of the fleet can be stood on a daily basis despite increases in hourly rates, bonuses being offered etc. You may want to defend Brexit come what may and that's fine but you can't airbrush the reality as I sit here now........ Sounding awfully like a capitalist rather than the good old socialist you claim to be, aren't you meant to be in favour of all the below ?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 25, 2021 15:30:01 GMT
Just to be clear post-Brexit the issues have got a hell of a lot worse, it is the main driving factor followed by IR35. The drivers leaving the industry were being backfilled by agency drivers previously, yes it's an artificial fix for a lot of reasons already debated but we could quite easily man all of our vehicles day and night 5, 6 or even 7 days a week if necessary. Now anything between 10-20% of the fleet can be stood on a daily basis despite increases in hourly rates, bonuses being offered etc. You may want to defend Brexit come what may and that's fine but you can't airbrush the reality as I sit here now........ Sounding awfully like a capitalist rather than the good old socialist you claim to be, aren't you meant to be in favour of all the below ? You've lost me? What has any of that got to do with the here and now which is what I was commenting on. You cannot push the issues of Brexit to one side when it is a big part of the CURRENT situation. Of course I'm in favour of those things, I would imagine most fair minded people would be which could rule you out I suppose.......
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 25, 2021 15:43:21 GMT
Comparing 2021 with 2018 is a nonsense. The world is still largely in the grip of a pandemic as any cursory glance at the statistics will tell you. Look at Australia. Look at Japan where there are protests at holding the paralympics in the middle of a pandemic. Many countries are still suffering badly. In 2018 we were enjoying a post referendum export boom, as world trade was at record levels. It is clearly going to take years to get back to that level. 2018 UK exports were at record levels only exceeded by 2019. As I said in my previous post look at the value of the £ and FTSE, or do you believe "the city" are in denial about Brexit? If anyone is manic about Brexit, it is remainers. The Guardian and Independant are trawling every day for the latest "disaster" that is destroying the country. So far we have had fishing, dairy products exports, touring musicians, students studying abroad, and now we can blame empty shelves on Brexit due to a lorry driver shortage. Everyone involved in the transport industry says the problem has gone on for years, and has only been brought to a head by the pandemic, travel restrictions, drivers "retiring" from long distance haulage, yes Brexit, and tax changes in April. I'm sure the G and I are busy now trying to find something else to blame Brexit for. As for Christianity and the EU there is a view about that you may find difficult to comprehend. This is an old video from circa 2014, but what is going on today between the EU Commission and Hungary and Poland suggests it is still relevant maybe. For video see above Just to be clear post-Brexit the issues have got a hell of a lot worse, it is the main driving factor followed by IR35. The drivers leaving the industry were being backfilled by agency drivers previously, yes it's an artificial fix for a lot of reasons already debated but we could quite easily man all of our vehicles day and night 5, 6 or even 7 days a week if necessary. Now anything between 10-20% of the fleet can be stood on a daily basis despite increases in hourly rates, bonuses being offered etc. You may want to defend Brexit come what may and that's fine but you can't airbrush the reality as I sit here now........ I did say Brexit was a contributory cause. It would be good if after years of issues for lorry drivers that Brexit triggered them getting better pay. With shortages in many jobs across the whole spectrum from health care workers, craftsmen, drivers, agricultural workers, etc. employers are going to have to raise wages to attract workers to keep their businesses going. During all the debate this year I have yet to see a figure quoted for the number of foreign workers who have returned to their birth land. On the other side of the coin, if transport costs escalate through employment costs and green measures such as higher fuel tax, it could drive business towards local suppliers, and away from national distribution centres.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 25, 2021 15:48:11 GMT
Just to be clear post-Brexit the issues have got a hell of a lot worse, it is the main driving factor followed by IR35. The drivers leaving the industry were being backfilled by agency drivers previously, yes it's an artificial fix for a lot of reasons already debated but we could quite easily man all of our vehicles day and night 5, 6 or even 7 days a week if necessary. Now anything between 10-20% of the fleet can be stood on a daily basis despite increases in hourly rates, bonuses being offered etc. You may want to defend Brexit come what may and that's fine but you can't airbrush the reality as I sit here now........ I did say Brexit was a contributory cause. It would be good if after years of issues for lorry drivers that Brexit triggered them getting better pay. With shortages in many jobs across the whole spectrum from health care workers, craftsmen, drivers, agricultural workers, etc. employers are going to have to raise wages to attract workers to keep their businesses going. During all the debate this year I have yet to see a figure quoted for the number of foreign workers who have returned to their birth land. On the other side of the coin, if transport costs escalate through employment costs and green measures such as higher fuel tax, it could drive business towards local suppliers, and away from national distribution centres. I think you're underplaying it at this particular juncture though that was my point mate. And I completely agree Brexit as well as Covid could be the great reset button for us to aim to ditch the gig economy and low paid sectors to a much fairer model. But we'll need more than Brexit to achieve that, we'll need a complete change in our mentality as a nation........
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Aug 25, 2021 16:25:31 GMT
Just to be clear post-Brexit the issues have got a hell of a lot worse, it is the main driving factor followed by IR35. The drivers leaving the industry were being backfilled by agency drivers previously, yes it's an artificial fix for a lot of reasons already debated but we could quite easily man all of our vehicles day and night 5, 6 or even 7 days a week if necessary. Now anything between 10-20% of the fleet can be stood on a daily basis despite increases in hourly rates, bonuses being offered etc. You may want to defend Brexit come what may and that's fine but you can't airbrush the reality as I sit here now........ With shortages in many jobs across the whole spectrum from health care workers, craftsmen, drivers, agricultural workers, etc. employers are going to have to raise wages to attract workers to keep their businesses going. Attract workers from where though-Hospitality? That was struggling last time I checked. Food processing ? Ditto Attract workers from each other's sectors? I'm sure truck drivers will get sorted at some point as it will attract sufficient drivers, but the underlying issue of there not being enough workers to go round is realistically only going to be addressed by immigration, so the UK needs to decide if it having the labour pool available is more important than keeping net immigration below the hundreds of thousands a year. I know that you personally would support migration for the workers we need , but it seems to be a debate the nation is shying away from.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 25, 2021 18:07:39 GMT
With shortages in many jobs across the whole spectrum from health care workers, craftsmen, drivers, agricultural workers, etc. employers are going to have to raise wages to attract workers to keep their businesses going. Attract workers from where though-Hospitality? That was struggling last time I checked. Food processing ? Ditto Attract workers from each other's sectors? I'm sure truck drivers will get sorted at some point as it will attract sufficient drivers, but the underlying issue of there not being enough workers to go round is realistically only going to be addressed by immigration, so the UK needs to decide if it having the labour pool available is more important than keeping net immigration below the hundreds of thousands a year. I know that you personally would support migration for the workers we need , but it seems to be a debate the nation is shying away from. Your right I am in favour of immigration. I was expecting the trade deal with Australia to include freedom of movement between citizens but I understand Australia were not in favour as they want people to go to Australia not move the other way. Maybe we will see it with New Zealand or India deals. The issue is not as simple as that though as increased population increases demands on all services so you need even more people and you could get into a spiral. Maye we should repeat the industrial revolution and increase automation, move goods by rail, and find other inventive ways to solve the issues, such as changing food habits. I notice it is the junk food retailers that are suffering first. My guess is the next shortage will be frozen chips. www.globaltrademag.com/britons-consume-the-most-frozen-potatoes-in-the-eu-nearly-70-comes-from-the-netherlands-and-belgium/
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 25, 2021 20:01:41 GMT
Attract workers from where though-Hospitality? That was struggling last time I checked. Food processing ? Ditto Attract workers from each other's sectors? I'm sure truck drivers will get sorted at some point as it will attract sufficient drivers, but the underlying issue of there not being enough workers to go round is realistically only going to be addressed by immigration, so the UK needs to decide if it having the labour pool available is more important than keeping net immigration below the hundreds of thousands a year. I know that you personally would support migration for the workers we need , but it seems to be a debate the nation is shying away from. Your right I am in favour of immigration. I was expecting the trade deal with Australia to include freedom of movement between citizens but I understand Australia were not in favour as they want people to go to Australia not move the other way. Maybe we will see it with New Zealand or India deals. The issue is not as simple as that though as increased population increases demands on all services so you need even more people and you could get into a spiral. Maye we should repeat the industrial revolution and increase automation, move goods by rail, and find other inventive ways to solve the issues, such as changing food habits. I notice it is the junk food retailers that are suffering first. My guess is the next shortage will be frozen chips. www.globaltrademag.com/britons-consume-the-most-frozen-potatoes-in-the-eu-nearly-70-comes-from-the-netherlands-and-belgium/Isn't there also an issue of ageing population?- ie not enough young people doing jobs and paying taxes to support you old 'uns. If you don't want the total population in the UK to increase could you nanage the courtedy of not living quite so long 😉- however if you insist on hanging around then kindly accept that more people will need to be around to support you. Plus we can't expect to be able to isolate ourselves from global population increases - the whole world beeds more infrastructure - not just us. Out of interest were you against freedom of movement with the EU but fir it with Australia? If that was the case why? (If you were in favour of the FOM aspect of EU membership the ignore the question).
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Post by henry on Aug 25, 2021 20:28:06 GMT
You can easily move a load of meat from Wayne Walkers in Middleport to Kidsgrove Tesco on a canal barge. Whats all the fuss about.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 25, 2021 20:54:39 GMT
Your right I am in favour of immigration. I was expecting the trade deal with Australia to include freedom of movement between citizens but I understand Australia were not in favour as they want people to go to Australia not move the other way. Maybe we will see it with New Zealand or India deals. The issue is not as simple as that though as increased population increases demands on all services so you need even more people and you could get into a spiral. Maye we should repeat the industrial revolution and increase automation, move goods by rail, and find other inventive ways to solve the issues, such as changing food habits. I notice it is the junk food retailers that are suffering first. My guess is the next shortage will be frozen chips. www.globaltrademag.com/britons-consume-the-most-frozen-potatoes-in-the-eu-nearly-70-comes-from-the-netherlands-and-belgium/Isn't there also an issue of ageing population?- ie not enough young people doing jobs and paying taxes to support you old 'uns. If you don't want the total population in the UK to increase could you nanage the courtedy of not living quite so long 😉- however if you insist on hanging around then kindly accept that more people will need to be around to support you. Plus we can't expect to be able to isolate ourselves from global population increases - the whole world beeds more infrastructure - not just us. Out of interest were you against freedom of movement with the EU but fir it with Australia? If that was the case why? (If you were in favour of the FOM aspect of EU membership the ignore the question). 1. I pay my way, you are not supporting me. I earned 4 pensions during my 44 years working without a day out of work and still pay a lot of tax. Most pensioners have earned their right to be looked after including fighting for our democracy, or putting their lives on the line in other ways like fire fighters. 2. I am in favour of freedom of movement but not rule from Brussels. I am in favour of a European free trade zone not a European Parliament moving back and forth between Brussels and Strasbourg, European Commission, European Court of Justice, and all the other instruments like the bank in Frankfurt. 3. I want to be a sovereign country like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, etc. electing our own government with a monarch as head of state not a president, like Germany (who's that?) 4. I think the EU policy of ever closer union is folly. The Euro is a disaster for countries like Greece and Italy. The CAP is a disaster for the environment. I could go on for a lot longer as you are probably aware!
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 25, 2021 21:03:06 GMT
Isn't there also an issue of ageing population?- ie not enough young people doing jobs and paying taxes to support you old 'uns. If you don't want the total population in the UK to increase could you nanage the courtedy of not living quite so long 😉- however if you insist on hanging around then kindly accept that more people will need to be around to support you. Plus we can't expect to be able to isolate ourselves from global population increases - the whole world beeds more infrastructure - not just us. Out of interest were you against freedom of movement with the EU but fir it with Australia? If that was the case why? (If you were in favour of the FOM aspect of EU membership the ignore the question). 1. I pay my way, you are not supporting me. I earned 4 pensions during my 44 years working without a day out of work and still pay a lot of tax. Most pensioners have earned their right to be looked after including fighting for our democracy, or putting their lives on the line in other ways like fire fighters. 2. I am in favour of freedom of movement but not rule from Brussels. I am in favour of a European free trade zone not a European Parliament moving back and forth between Brussels and Strasbourg, European Commission, European Court of Justice, and all the other instruments like the bank in Frankfurt. 3. I want to be a sovereign country like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, etc. electing our own government with a monarch as head of state not a president, like Germany (who's that?) 4. I think the EU policy of ever closer union is folly. The Euro is a disaster for countries like Greece and Italy. The CAP is a disaster for the environment. I could go on for a lot longer as you are probably aware! That's not an answer - that's just yet another anti EU rant. And you miss the point re ageing population - you can't have a country top heavy with owd uns playing bowls and bingo and nobody doing any of the work - you need continued immigration of people of working age to sustain the economy - its a simple demographic problem of people living longer and delaying starting a family. Oh - and it's got bugger all to do with the EU.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 25, 2021 22:14:14 GMT
1. I pay my way, you are not supporting me. I earned 4 pensions during my 44 years working without a day out of work and still pay a lot of tax. Most pensioners have earned their right to be looked after including fighting for our democracy, or putting their lives on the line in other ways like fire fighters. 2. I am in favour of freedom of movement but not rule from Brussels. I am in favour of a European free trade zone not a European Parliament moving back and forth between Brussels and Strasbourg, European Commission, European Court of Justice, and all the other instruments like the bank in Frankfurt. 3. I want to be a sovereign country like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, etc. electing our own government with a monarch as head of state not a president, like Germany (who's that?) 4. I think the EU policy of ever closer union is folly. The Euro is a disaster for countries like Greece and Italy. The CAP is a disaster for the environment. I could go on for a lot longer as you are probably aware! That's not an answer - that's just yet another anti EU rant. And you miss the point re ageing population - you can't have a country top heavy with owd uns playing bowls and bingo and nobody doing any of the work - you need continued immigration of people of working age to sustain the economy - its a simple demographic problem of people living longer and delaying starting a family. Oh - and it's got bugger all to do with the EU. Apologies for the rant. How do other countries managing an aging population? There are 22 with more old aged than the UK. Are they all relying on immigration? I know Germany is, but what about Italy and Japan? www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-largest-aging-population-in-the-world.htmlItaly also has very high unemployment particularly among the young but they support their greater aged population. The answer, I believe, is to be more productive, something the UK is poor at. The UK may be the 5th (or 6th depending on whose measure) largest economy in the world, but we are 15th in terms of productivity (or 35th depending on whose measure) so we have huge potential to improve the wealth of the nation. I could now go into another rant about the UK's massive trade deficit with the EU, but you would not appreciate that! I am in favour of migration, but think we are failing if we are too heavily dependant on it.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 26, 2021 8:23:18 GMT
That's not an answer - that's just yet another anti EU rant. And you miss the point re ageing population - you can't have a country top heavy with owd uns playing bowls and bingo and nobody doing any of the work - you need continued immigration of people of working age to sustain the economy - its a simple demographic problem of people living longer and delaying starting a family. Oh - and it's got bugger all to do with the EU. Apologies for the rant. How do other countries managing an aging population? There are 22 with more old aged than the UK. Are they all relying on immigration? I know Germany is, but what about Italy and Japan? www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-largest-aging-population-in-the-world.htmlItaly also has very high unemployment particularly among the young but they support their greater aged population. The answer, I believe, is to be more productive, something the UK is poor at. The UK may be the 5th (or 6th depending on whose measure) largest economy in the world, but we are 15th in terms of productivity (or 35th depending on whose measure) so we have huge potential to improve the wealth of the nation. I could now go into another rant about the UK's massive trade deficit with the EU, but you would not appreciate that! I am in favour of migration, but think we are failing if we are too heavily dependant on it. To answer your question you would have to dig deeper into factors like retirement age, social norms, welfare systems, industrial make-up and other things besides. I absolutely agree more can be done with productivity - In my own area of expertise I've seen automation improve warehouse productivity immensely and there is still a lot of opportunity still out there as I'm sure there is in many other sectors. Nevertheless state pensions account for 40% of the UK welfare budget and that's before you add in health costs, free prescriptions, bus passes, free TV licences etc and it's only going to go higher. You may well consider that's your fair entitlement and you're probably right - but the money you paid in tax over your working life was spent on the Falklands and Afghanistan (amongst other things - but the point is it's gone) - we need current taxpayers to help foot the bill. Also - unless your looking at driverless lorries, robotic care workers and self service pubs with pints on vend I'm afraid we're still going to beed Piotr from Poland, Florin from Romania and Suzi from the Phillipines to drive, wipe backsides and pull pints - so saying we haven't got room for them makes no sense unless you want to start culling people over 80 (which I am sure crossed Cummings mind with Covid).
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 26, 2021 9:15:51 GMT
That's not an answer - that's just yet another anti EU rant. And you miss the point re ageing population - you can't have a country top heavy with owd uns playing bowls and bingo and nobody doing any of the work - you need continued immigration of people of working age to sustain the economy - its a simple demographic problem of people living longer and delaying starting a family. Oh - and it's got bugger all to do with the EU. Apologies for the rant. How do other countries managing an aging population? There are 22 with more old aged than the UK. Are they all relying on immigration? I know Germany is, but what about Italy and Japan? www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-largest-aging-population-in-the-world.htmlItaly also has very high unemployment particularly among the young but they support their greater aged population. The answer, I believe, is to be more productive, something the UK is poor at. The UK may be the 5th (or 6th depending on whose measure) largest economy in the world, but we are 15th in terms of productivity (or 35th depending on whose measure) so we have huge potential to improve the wealth of the nation. I could now go into another rant about the UK's massive trade deficit with the EU, but you would not appreciate that! I am in favour of migration, but think we are failing if we are too heavily dependant on it. What do you think are the causes of Britain's poor productivity?
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 26, 2021 11:02:31 GMT
Apologies for the rant. How do other countries managing an aging population? There are 22 with more old aged than the UK. Are they all relying on immigration? I know Germany is, but what about Italy and Japan? www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-largest-aging-population-in-the-world.htmlItaly also has very high unemployment particularly among the young but they support their greater aged population. The answer, I believe, is to be more productive, something the UK is poor at. The UK may be the 5th (or 6th depending on whose measure) largest economy in the world, but we are 15th in terms of productivity (or 35th depending on whose measure) so we have huge potential to improve the wealth of the nation. I could now go into another rant about the UK's massive trade deficit with the EU, but you would not appreciate that! I am in favour of migration, but think we are failing if we are too heavily dependant on it. What do you think are the causes of Britain's poor productivity? In a sentence, lack of capital investment and lack of organic growth of many of our industries. For example ICI was a world leader but it was broken up and large sections sold off. It seems a British thing to start and develop a business or process and when it is viable then sell it off to foreign companies to invest in and grow and reap the greatest benefits. At least that is my experience in the steel and mineral industries. I witnessed the progressive decline in steelmaking at at each downturn (the steel industry is very cyclical) a large UK steel works would close. Investments were invariably short term payback. Meanwhile I saw the Dutch (at IJmuiden), Belgians, Austrians, Spanish, and Swedes invest in their industry and modernise, and invest in producing higher added value products, while the UK just continued generally to produce the same products. The German steel industry shrunk but at the same time replaced old plant with brand new, much larger and productive new plant, and, set up cartels to prevent foreign competition selling in Germany. German industry is very incestuous. The French and Italian steel industries declined but not as much as the UK . In Italy's case their government has clearly subsidised the steel industry, which is massively polluting which would not be tolerated in the UK. It's hard to say what went on in France, they keep their cards close to their chest. I worked for Lafarge for 7 years and there was an unwritten rule, you only buy French. French productivity has been driven by acquisition to a large degree with French parent companies buying businesses around the world like Redland, Blue Circle cement, and UK water companies. That way they spread their overheads globally. Many governments in the world have invested more in infrastructure than the UK, which promotes efficiency and productivity. The outstanding example being railways. Fortunately the UK is now at long last starting to invest heavily in rail, but we have a long way to go to match Japan and many European countries. That's assuming the green lobby permit rail development! The French have invested massively in nuclear power to keep electricity prices down. The one group I would not blame for poor productivity is British workers. In my experience I have found British workers the least work shy. In fact just the opposite in many works I have managed. I have also found British trade unions generally to be responsible and prepared to accommodate change, contrary to much right wing propaganda.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 26, 2021 12:23:24 GMT
What do you think are the causes of Britain's poor productivity? In a sentence, lack of capital investment and lack of organic growth of many of our industries. For example ICI was a world leader but it was broken up and large sections sold off. It seems a British thing to start and develop a business or process and when it is viable then sell it off to foreign companies to invest in and grow and reap the greatest benefits. At least that is my experience in the steel and mineral industries. I witnessed the progressive decline in steelmaking at at each downturn (the steel industry is very cyclical) a large UK steel works would close. Investments were invariably short term payback. Meanwhile I saw the Dutch (at IJmuiden), Belgians, Austrians, Spanish, and Swedes invest in their industry and modernise, and invest in producing higher added value products, while the UK just continued generally to produce the same products. The German steel industry shrunk but at the same time replaced old plant with brand new, much larger and productive new plant, and, set up cartels to prevent foreign competition selling in Germany. German industry is very incestuous. The French and Italian steel industries declined but not as much as the UK . In Italy's case their government has clearly subsidised the steel industry, which is massively polluting which would not be tolerated in the UK. It's hard to say what went on in France, they keep their cards close to their chest. I worked for Lafarge for 7 years and there was an unwritten rule, you only buy French. French productivity has been driven by acquisition to a large degree with French parent companies buying businesses around the world like Redland, Blue Circle cement, and UK water companies. That way they spread their overheads globally. Many governments in the world have invested more in infrastructure than the UK, which promotes efficiency and productivity. The outstanding example being railways. Fortunately the UK is now at long last starting to invest heavily in rail, but we have a long way to go to match Japan and many European countries. That's assuming the green lobby permit rail development! The French have invested massively in nuclear power to keep electricity prices down. The one group I would not blame for poor productivity is British workers. In my experience I have found British workers the least work shy. In fact just the opposite in many works I have managed. I have also found British trade unions generally to be responsible and prepared to accommodate change, contrary to much right wing propaganda. Hmmm, sounds like most our problems are, in fact, home-grown then, and blaming the EU is a convenient red herring. Who'd have thought it?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 26, 2021 12:24:20 GMT
Sounding awfully like a capitalist rather than the good old socialist you claim to be, aren't you meant to be in favour of all the below ? You've lost me? What has any of that got to do with the here and now which is what I was commenting on. You cannot push the issues of Brexit to one side when it is a big part of the CURRENT situation. Of course I'm in favour of those things, I would imagine most fair minded people would be which could rule you out I suppose....... I expect the point he was trying to make was that all of those things were absolutely physically impossible without Brexit....
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Post by questionable on Aug 26, 2021 12:33:08 GMT
You can easily move a load of meat from Wayne Walkers in Middleport to Kidsgrove Tesco on a canal barge. Whats all the fuss about. Interestingly they get stuff delivered by barge on the canal opposite to us, tried and tested method 👍
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 26, 2021 12:50:38 GMT
You can easily move a load of meat from Wayne Walkers in Middleport to Kidsgrove Tesco on a canal barge. Whats all the fuss about. Interestingly they get stuff delivered by barge on the canal opposite to us, tried and tested method 👍 We collect steel that's been delivered by barge from time to time, it's tried and tested but an absolutely miniscule part of the supply chain.......
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Post by questionable on Aug 26, 2021 12:55:09 GMT
Interestingly they get stuff delivered by barge on the canal opposite to us, tried and tested method 👍 We collect steel that's been delivered by barge from time to time, it's tried and tested but an absolutely miniscule part of the supply chain....... If only the skip I was told would be delivered at 8 this morning had arrived yet, tossers.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 26, 2021 12:56:40 GMT
We collect steel that's been delivered by barge from time to time, it's tried and tested but an absolutely miniscule part of the supply chain....... If only the skip I was told would be delivered at 8 this morning had arrived yet, tossers. I was the opposite, I had a full one I needed collecting recently and couldn't get them to pick it up for love nor money......
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 26, 2021 13:07:40 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 26, 2021 13:29:02 GMT
In a sentence, lack of capital investment and lack of organic growth of many of our industries. For example ICI was a world leader but it was broken up and large sections sold off. It seems a British thing to start and develop a business or process and when it is viable then sell it off to foreign companies to invest in and grow and reap the greatest benefits. At least that is my experience in the steel and mineral industries. I witnessed the progressive decline in steelmaking at at each downturn (the steel industry is very cyclical) a large UK steel works would close. Investments were invariably short term payback. Meanwhile I saw the Dutch (at IJmuiden), Belgians, Austrians, Spanish, and Swedes invest in their industry and modernise, and invest in producing higher added value products, while the UK just continued generally to produce the same products. The German steel industry shrunk but at the same time replaced old plant with brand new, much larger and productive new plant, and, set up cartels to prevent foreign competition selling in Germany. German industry is very incestuous. The French and Italian steel industries declined but not as much as the UK . In Italy's case their government has clearly subsidised the steel industry, which is massively polluting which would not be tolerated in the UK. It's hard to say what went on in France, they keep their cards close to their chest. I worked for Lafarge for 7 years and there was an unwritten rule, you only buy French. French productivity has been driven by acquisition to a large degree with French parent companies buying businesses around the world like Redland, Blue Circle cement, and UK water companies. That way they spread their overheads globally. Many governments in the world have invested more in infrastructure than the UK, which promotes efficiency and productivity. The outstanding example being railways. Fortunately the UK is now at long last starting to invest heavily in rail, but we have a long way to go to match Japan and many European countries. That's assuming the green lobby permit rail development! The French have invested massively in nuclear power to keep electricity prices down. The one group I would not blame for poor productivity is British workers. In my experience I have found British workers the least work shy. In fact just the opposite in many works I have managed. I have also found British trade unions generally to be responsible and prepared to accommodate change, contrary to much right wing propaganda. Hmmm, sounds like most our problems are, in fact, home-grown then, and blaming the EU is a convenient red herring. Who'd have thought it? When did I ever blame the EU for the UK's low productivity? Just the opposite in fact. The UK is the second most productive country in Europe, second only to Germany, which has a much higher population. This is primarily due to still having a large manufacturing industry and a huge service industry despite a huge trade deficit with the EU. The UK has been held back from growth by EU regulation (tariffs, quotas with RoW) and some of the duplicity I mentioned in my post above. When Merkel talks about maintaining a level playing field, I lol. Last week the government decided to postpone the replacement of EU CE marking regulations with new British standards to give British industry more time. That reminded me of an occasion in the late 90s when I still supported EU membership but my support was wavering. We had a German engineer visit the works I managed to advise on how to improve the efficiency of a German coal mill. Part of his recommendations was to change the classifier on the mill to improve its efficiency. My works engineer said his proposal looked good in engineering terms but we could not buy it because their new classifier was not yet CE marked/approved. The German engineer said no one in Germany takes any notice of EU regulations on CE marking, only the British follow the rules. That put another nail in the coffin of my support of the EU. The government has announced some new standards today. www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-unveils-post-brexit-global-data-plans-to-boost-growth-increase-trade-and-improve-healthcarewww.euractiv.com/section/data-protection/news/uk-launches-global-data-plans-to-become-a-technological-superpower/
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 26, 2021 17:06:35 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 26, 2021 17:16:31 GMT
Union which campaigned for Brexit doesn't think Brexit may have contributed to driver crisis. In other news, Pope spotted at Mass and bear shit seen in woods...
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Aug 26, 2021 21:25:53 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 26, 2021 22:15:41 GMT
This is true. The biggest industry to be affected is car production which is the single biggest impact on the economy and exports. The whole world industry is being impacted by a shortage of chips. The industry, which is very tightly manned (i.e. they cannot afford to have many people off work to affect the assembly lines) has been serious hit by pandemic pinging workers. eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2021/08/car-production-plummets-in-uk-amid-pingdemic-and-chip-shortage/The 2 biggest world car producers are being hit hard: www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-9908789/COVID-fuelled-semiconductor-crunch-chips-away-carmakers.htmlAnother major factor is it that a huge number of people are choosing not to return to their previous jobs after the pandemic and opting to avoid the rat race. This particularly applies to the middle aged whose children have left home. I saw a figure of 800,000 for the UK and a staggering 1 in 4 in the USA which is unbelievable. It appears a lot of people are choosing to change their life style as a result of the lockdowns and being furloughed. Don't be misled by the figures in the BBC article which says " Composite Purchasing Managers' Index (PMI) for August hit a six-month low of 55.3, falling from 59.2 in July." 55.3 is still an incredibly high number and unsustainable for a long period. The highest PMI was 51.9 for any month in 2018, and in 2019 only 2 months of the year were above 50. The PMI values have been extraordinarily high this year due to coming out of the pandemic.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 27, 2021 14:17:17 GMT
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Post by tuum on Aug 27, 2021 15:31:25 GMT
Lots of video blogs on YouTube re. shortage of drivers in UK and Europe. Drivers in UK say it is all down to low wages, poor working conditions. Haulage associations and Owners say Brexit. In Europe the debate goes even deeper re. Social Dumping and Owners, multi nationals looking for the cheapest drivers possible and having them spend 4mths to a year at a time living in their cab while working wholly in western europe. The debate goes into slave labour and the low rates potentially forcing western europe drivers out of a job. From what I can gather this situation is still not resolved in Europe. Measures have been taken to try and restrict the influx of eastern european drivers but I am not sure how much of an impact this has had on driver numbers operating in Western Europe. It seems to highlight very clearly the wage disparity between eastern europeans and western europeans working in western europe - a race to the bottom.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 30, 2021 18:05:24 GMT
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