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Post by mrcoke on Aug 22, 2021 22:09:50 GMT
I picked up today in passing that there is a serious truck driver shortage in Germany, so I thought I would dig deeper and found that driver shortages is not just a British problem, or indeed a European problem, it is a worldwide problem. " European companies are expecting a 17% shortfall in drivers this year, 18% in Mexico, 20% in Turkey, 24% in Russia, and almost one third in Uzbekistan,...." www.truckinginfo.com/10145403/the-driver-shortage-were-not-alone" In some parts of the world, 25% of driving jobs are unfilled, according to a report from the International Road Transport Union (IRU), which surveyed 800 road transport businesses in over 20 countries. The main issue? There are simply too few people wanting to work as truck drivers." www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/06/global-shortage-commercial-truck-drivers/As has been alluded to already on this MB, the problem is not new and was around before the pandemic. In a report released in December 2018 by the European Road Freight Transport: ". . the supply chain analyst shows that in just six countries – the UK, Germany, France, Denmark Sweden and Norway – the shortage of drivers adds up to 127,500." www.bifa.org/news/articles/2018/dec/truck-driver-shortage-crisis-now-spreading-across-the-whole-of-europe
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 22, 2021 22:16:35 GMT
I don’t think most folk realise what a huge problem this is, not just for us but for the world. These guys (and girls) are a vital cog in the world actually functioning properly.
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Post by richie22 on Aug 23, 2021 5:06:11 GMT
The RHA are constantly harassing the government to reopen the floodgates to Eastern European drivers. This at a time where lorry’s drivers such as myself are suddenly being financially recognised in what is a shit job. Finally starting to see proper reward. It’s like there large groups that want to keep this trade down in the gutter, as I said weeks ago the end game of a race to the bottom what’s been happening for years.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 23, 2021 8:22:07 GMT
My step grandson switched from driving a lorry to Amazon van driver when he was furloughed last year. He says it’s much more sociable hours although some days quite long but he’s used to long days, sleeping in his cab. But now he gets home every night which he didn’t in his lorry driving days.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 23, 2021 8:22:14 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 23, 2021 8:33:50 GMT
The RHA are constantly harassing the government to reopen the floodgates to Eastern European drivers. This at a time where lorry’s drivers such as myself are suddenly being financially recognised in what is a shit job. Finally starting to see proper reward. It’s like there large groups that want to keep this trade down in the gutter, as I said weeks ago the end game of a race to the bottom what’s been happening for years. But being in the EU didn't affect wages we were constantly told this (good job it wasn't put on the side of the bus) almost like the basics of supply and demand don't exist, it's not just this industry it has happened in many the open-ended supply of cheap labour has kept or forced down peoples wages so younger people aren't interested in a lowish paying job where you have to spend much of your working week away from home. Hope you fill your boots while you can mate.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 23, 2021 8:34:44 GMT
The RHA are constantly harassing the government to reopen the floodgates to Eastern European drivers. This at a time where lorry’s drivers such as myself are suddenly being financially recognised in what is a shit job. Finally starting to see proper reward. It’s like there large groups that want to keep this trade down in the gutter, as I said weeks ago the end game of a race to the bottom what’s been happening for years. Completely agree, the industry like many others where people are underpaid needs a complete shake up. Most small to medium size haulage companies are doing well if they make 3% margin in general haulage though, even the big boys have the general haulage side of the business propped up by warehousing or other specialist/niche areas. So the profit is being made largely by the shareholders of the big retailers (particularly supermarkets), they need to pay more for services provided or all of us will pay for the increases at the till that's the reality.......
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 23, 2021 9:14:31 GMT
The RHA are constantly harassing the government to reopen the floodgates to Eastern European drivers. This at a time where lorry’s drivers such as myself are suddenly being financially recognised in what is a shit job. Finally starting to see proper reward. It’s like there large groups that want to keep this trade down in the gutter, as I said weeks ago the end game of a race to the bottom what’s been happening for years. I understand what you are saying and hope drivers get a fair reward. The point I was making in my OP was that we were led to believe by some of the media that driver shortages was a Brexit issue, then some said it was a consequences of the pandemic (less training and testing, long distance haulage drivers opting not to return to their former jobs), then we were told it was because of government tax changes in April making matters worse. But apparently it is a worldwide issue that has been lurking for years and recent events have simply brought things to a head. Do you think that if the RHA get their way and get the government to relax the rules for admitting east European lorry drivers, that they will come? Or will they go to work in Germany or France.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Aug 23, 2021 11:22:08 GMT
We will need a strong logistics sector to cope with all the imports resulting from it getting too expensive to manufacture commoditiesin the UK. That's been happening for years of course but as we appear to be in a period of non-Productivity-related wage inflation looks like it will get worse.
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Post by Veritas on Aug 23, 2021 11:32:40 GMT
I worked for a major Logistics company for 30+ years and talking to old colleagues the current shortage of drivers is made up of 3 roughly equal elements. We were already short of drivers before Brexit or Covid, Brexit saw many East European drivers return home and the pandemic has caused a large backlog of LGV tests. The last of these we are slowly getting on top of but that will still leave two thirds of the issue unresolved.
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Post by heworksardtho on Aug 23, 2021 11:57:12 GMT
The RHA are constantly harassing the government to reopen the floodgates to Eastern European drivers. This at a time where lorry’s drivers such as myself are suddenly being financially recognised in what is a shit job. Finally starting to see proper reward. It’s like there large groups that want to keep this trade down in the gutter, as I said weeks ago the end game of a race to the bottom what’s been happening for years. But being in the EU didn't affect wages we were constantly told this (good job it wasn't put on the side of the bus) almost like the basics of supply and demand don't exist, it's not just this industry it has happened in many the open-ended supply of cheap labour has kept or forced down peoples wages so younger people aren't interested in a lowish paying job where you have to spend much of your working week away from home. Hope you fill your boots while you can mate. It use to say oxo on the side of buses and when I asked the driver how much he looked at me funny
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Post by questionable on Aug 23, 2021 12:48:17 GMT
My step grandson switched from driving a lorry to Amazon van driver when he was furloughed last year. He says it’s much more sociable hours although some days quite long but he’s used to long days, sleeping in his cab. But now he gets home every night which he didn’t in his lorry driving days. Wasn’t there talk of the likes of Amazon using Drones to deliver packages, that would be ace, also it’d stop the stupid dog barking and jumping up and scratching my window sill every time a delivery driver walked past the window,
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 23, 2021 14:58:55 GMT
We will need a strong logistics sector to cope with all the imports resulting from it getting too expensive to manufacture commodities in the UK.That's been happening for years of course but as we appear to be in a period of non-Productivity-related wage inflation looks like it will get worse. It is a common perception that manufacturing has declined in the UK. This is understandable as; 1. The number of people employed in manufacturing is a tiny fraction of what it was. 2. There has been an almost total demise of old traditional industry and reliance on imports for many goods and commodities. 3. The huge swing towards a service industry economy, so manufacturing now represents a small part of GDP. But manufacturing is far from dead. This is an old article from 2014, but what is says hold true for what has happened during the 70s, 80, 90s, and 00s: "Output up since 1978 despite a 60% fall in the number of workers Manufacturing growing at 2.8% a year, higher than overall economy Productivity gains due to technology, skilled workforce and investment 70% of all research and development investment is for manufacturing"www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2803400/UK-manufacturing-output-increased-1978-ONS-figures-show.htmlIn the last two decades we have seen a huge increase in manufactured goods from the Far East and a huge increase in the trade deficit with the EU up till the pandemic. But the UK's largest exports are still manufactured goods including vehicles, precious metals and stones, high tech engineering products, pharmaceuticals and oil. There is a rapidly growing green industry producing energy related products.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Aug 23, 2021 15:29:29 GMT
I've heard that the big boys (supermarkets, Amazon etc) are offering daft money to get drivers to work for them, which the smaller players cannot compete with. We import around 25-30 containers per month and where delivery times from arrival at port was around 3-5 days, it's now at around 7-10 days if you're lucky. I've heard stories of containers not being delivered for up to 4 weeks after entry in some cases.
Everything to do with transport has increased ridiculously in the last 12 months. Containers and airfreight are probably 5 or even 10 times what they were. It's insane but, as usual, it's the big boys (shipping lines, airlines) still making megabucks because the demand is still there and companies will pay it.
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Post by Boothen on Aug 23, 2021 15:44:33 GMT
If the cunts hadn't taken my driving licence off of me (medical reasons, not criminal (fuckers never caught me)) I'd happily go and get the relevant licences and do a bit of truck driving.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 23, 2021 15:45:12 GMT
My step grandson switched from driving a lorry to Amazon van driver when he was furloughed last year. He says it’s much more sociable hours although some days quite long but he’s used to long days, sleeping in his cab. But now he gets home every night which he didn’t in his lorry driving days. Wasn’t there talk of the likes of Amazon using Drones to deliver packages, that would be ace, also it’d stop the stupid dog barking and jumping up and scratching my window sill every time a delivery driver walked past the window, Think that’s been abandoned mate.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 24, 2021 6:31:43 GMT
I've heard that the big boys (supermarkets, Amazon etc) are offering daft money to get drivers to work for them, which the smaller players cannot compete with. We import around 25-30 containers per month and where delivery times from arrival at port was around 3-5 days, it's now at around 7-10 days if you're lucky. I've heard stories of containers not being delivered for up to 4 weeks after entry in some cases. Everything to do with transport has increased ridiculously in the last 12 months. Containers and airfreight are probably 5 or even 10 times what they were. It's insane but, as usual, it's the big boys (shipping lines, airlines) still making megabucks because the demand is still there and companies will pay it. The likes of Tesco/Asda are offering a grand when you sign up to work for them, and the hourly rates for agency drivers are increasing constantly….
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Post by Veritas on Aug 24, 2021 6:39:55 GMT
If the cunts hadn't taken my driving licence off of me (medical reasons, not criminal (fuckers never caught me)) I'd happily go and get the relevant licences and do a bit of truck driving. Probably best you can't then!
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Post by zerps on Aug 24, 2021 6:49:06 GMT
All proper trades are struggling nowadays
Media studies must be booming though?
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 24, 2021 7:50:57 GMT
The country is crying out for craftsmen, skilled workers, and engineers. The top 5 fastest increasing studies at uni are: 1. Management studies 2. Politics 3. Economics 4. Computer Science 5. Business studies
I used to mentor chemical engineering students at Imperial College , London. Many of them either gave up and switched to an easier course like Sociology or when they got their degree went into "the City" instead of industry, where pay was far more lucrative. The City liked engineers, as they had good "brains".
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 24, 2021 11:00:48 GMT
This sums a lot of the current issues up fairly well.....
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 24, 2021 11:15:20 GMT
Lots of empty shelves. UK, 2021
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Post by tuum on Aug 24, 2021 12:31:24 GMT
The country is crying out for craftsmen, skilled workers, and engineers. The top 5 fastest increasing studies at uni are: 1. Management studies 2. Politics 3. Economics 4. Computer Science 5. Business studies I used to mentor chemical engineering students at Imperial College , London. Many of them either gave up and switched to an easier course like Sociology or when they got their degree went into "the City" instead of industry, where pay was far more lucrative. The City liked engineers, as they had good "brains". When I did my engineering degree back in the 80's there was a guy on my course who had absolutely no intention of going in to civil engineering. He was very clear about going straight into the city to work as a stockbroker/fund manager. This was in 1987. I had absolutely no idea that this was a career path for engineers. He was from London so he was obviously much more familiar with the money available to fund managers than I was. In Thailand, I met a Londoner who worked in the city from the age of 18 until he was 25 and then he went to Hong Kong for 10 yrs. Retired to Thailand in his mid-30's. He is a decent bloke but he admits he had very limited qualifications. He used to be on the trading floor wearing the bright coloured jockey suits and admitted it was all just one big gambling arena. If you had the energy and your trades came off then you made a relative fortune with no downside. It has only got worse in my opinion. A friend of mine worked in the city in IT in the early 90's and used to drink in the same bars. He was a good looking bloke but tight with his money. He said he couldn't get a sniff with the women unless he was prepared to stick his credit card behind the bar and even then they would note whether it was ordinary-gold-platinum or Amex etc. Being tight, this was something he was not prepared to do and so he was never of much interest to the secretaries and PA's despite looking like Brad Pitt (sort of).
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 24, 2021 13:10:28 GMT
Lots of empty shelves. UK, 2021 Yes there is a lorry driver shortage. Read all about it above. Start with my OP. The BBC have just reported the a fast food outlet has run out of milkshakes. The said it is because of a lorry driver shortage. They gave various reasons like Brexit, pandemic, tax changes in April all discussed at length above and on the Brexit thread. But the BBC reporter failed to read my OP above that there has been a worldwide shortage of lorry drivers for years. I suspect there will continue to be a worldwide lorry driver shortage for years to come. I also suspect I know which country will come out of the problem first. The investment in logistics in this country is massive and I know those capitalists investing their money will not let their investment fail because of not addressing the driver shortage.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 24, 2021 13:44:07 GMT
Lots of empty shelves. UK, 2021 Yes there is a lorry driver shortage. Read all about it above. Start with my OP. The BBC have just reported the a fast food outlet has run out of milkshakes. The said it is because of a lorry driver shortage. They gave various reasons like Brexit, pandemic, tax changes in April all discussed at length above and on the Brexit thread. But the BBC reporter failed to read my OP above that there has been a worldwide shortage of lorry drivers for years. I suspect there will continue to be a worldwide lorry driver shortage for years to come. I also suspect I know which country will come out of the problem first. The investment in logistics in this country is massive and I know those capitalists investing their money will not let their investment fail because of not addressing the driver shortage. Whilst I agree it's not solely down to Brexit, it would be remiss of me not to highlight that mainland EU countries have more opportunities to negate the driver shortage by moving freight by rail, and that the opportunities for say a Belgian hauiler to deliver goods into Germany then do a couple of days worth of deliveries before heading back across the border are far greater which helps to chip away at the problem in hand. As an island nation our numbers are far more worrying........
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 24, 2021 14:21:17 GMT
Yes there is a lorry driver shortage. Read all about it above. Start with my OP. The BBC have just reported the a fast food outlet has run out of milkshakes. The said it is because of a lorry driver shortage. They gave various reasons like Brexit, pandemic, tax changes in April all discussed at length above and on the Brexit thread. But the BBC reporter failed to read my OP above that there has been a worldwide shortage of lorry drivers for years. I suspect there will continue to be a worldwide lorry driver shortage for years to come. I also suspect I know which country will come out of the problem first. The investment in logistics in this country is massive and I know those capitalists investing their money will not let their investment fail because of not addressing the driver shortage. Whilst I agree it's not solely down to Brexit, it would be remiss of me not to highlight that mainland EU countries have more opportunities to negate the driver shortage by moving freight by rail, and that the opportunities for say a Belgian hauiler to deliver goods into Germany then do a couple of days worth of deliveries before heading back across the border are far greater which helps to chip away at the problem in hand. As an island nation our numbers are far more worrying........ I don't recall empty shelves as a result of this worldwide lorry driver shortage previously, do you? Brexit has undoubtedly made it worse for the UK since those European drivers who left either as a result of Brexit or the pandemic are now not returning or finding it harder to do so and not bothering. Also, according to your figures, Coke, we have, once again, just like the impact on GDP by the pandemic, been hit the hardest out of most European countries. And wait till the import controls paperwork kicks in next month...another avoidable hindrance to international trade.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 24, 2021 15:44:42 GMT
Whilst I agree it's not solely down to Brexit, it would be remiss of me not to highlight that mainland EU countries have more opportunities to negate the driver shortage by moving freight by rail, and that the opportunities for say a Belgian hauiler to deliver goods into Germany then do a couple of days worth of deliveries before heading back across the border are far greater which helps to chip away at the problem in hand. As an island nation our numbers are far more worrying........ I don't recall empty shelves as a result of this worldwide lorry driver shortage previously, do you? Brexit has undoubtedly made it worse for the UK since those European drivers who left either as a result of Brexit or the pandemic are now not returning or finding it harder to do so and not bothering. Also, according to your figures, Coke, we have, once again, just like the impact on GDP by the pandemic, been hit the hardest out of most European countries. And wait till the import controls paperwork kicks in next month...another avoidable hindrance to international trade. I'm not suggesting Brexit hasn't made it worse, but IR35 has been a massive factor as well as British national drivers are leaving the industry in droves as well as those going back to Europe......
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 24, 2021 16:08:08 GMT
Whilst I agree it's not solely down to Brexit, it would be remiss of me not to highlight that mainland EU countries have more opportunities to negate the driver shortage by moving freight by rail, and that the opportunities for say a Belgian hauiler to deliver goods into Germany then do a couple of days worth of deliveries before heading back across the border are far greater which helps to chip away at the problem in hand. As an island nation our numbers are far more worrying........ I don't recall empty shelves as a result of this worldwide lorry driver shortage previously, do you? Brexit has undoubtedly made it worse for the UK since those European drivers who left either as a result of Brexit or the pandemic are now not returning or finding it harder to do so and not bothering. Also, according to your figures, Coke, we have, once again, just like the impact on GDP by the pandemic, been hit the hardest out of most European countries. And wait till the import controls paperwork kicks in next month...another avoidable hindrance to international trade. To answer your points in a constructive and positive manner. There has been a shortage of lorry drivers worldwide for some time, not reported by the media, but as soon as it becomes a serious issue due to the pandemic, Brexit, and tax changes in April, the BBC choose to list Brexit first. There were always going to be issues leaving the EU, just as there were issues when we joined the EEC such as the sugar crisis. We will overcome the problem of selling cheese and shellfish to the EU. Where is your evidence that the UK is hardest hit? If indeed we are the hardest hit, it's because of our massive dependence on foreign workers and imported products from the EU that has built up to crippling levels since we joined Europe , particularly in the 21st century. Pre pandemic we had a > £60 billion pa trade deficit with EU, nearly half of that with Germany. So far we are short of rubbish chicken and milkshakes, big deal. The impact of the pandemic on GDP has nothing to do with Brexit or lorry drivers and everything to do with the UK having the largest service economy, the amount of international travel in and out of the UK, and the slowness of the government to lockdown. I predict because we are a service economy the UK GDP will recover faster. As usual your last sentence is predicting doom and gloom and incorrect. Just as the predictions of recession if the country voted leave in 2016 didn't materialise, to which the response was "Well, we haven't left yet". Well we have left and guess what, despite a worldwide pandemic, UK total exports are higher than they were at the time of the referendum in 2016, and exports to the EU are back to pre Brexit levels: dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2021/08/uk-exports-to-eu-return-to-pre-brexit-levels/Now you say we will be hindered by import paperwork controls. As usual the problems are just round the corner, but not here yet. Most of the UK's exports and imports are now with non EU countries and unaffected. The EU imposed immediate measures to control imports from the UK when we left, but exports from the UK are higher (see link above). One exporter said recently it is now easier to sell to China than the EU. The EU sits within its customs union, with trade barriers with the rest of the world, its protection policy with the CAP, and is economically the second slowest growing continent* in the world, as the rest of the world grows more rapidly. I will start to worry about Brexit when unemployment is rising, house prices falling, £ declining in value, stock exchange falling, etc. Maybe those are things you wish would happen to prove Brexit was a bad idea? Personally I have a lot more faith in the British people and the UK economy. There is a tendency by some to blame everything on government. The reality a country's performance is more dependant on the people. Governments don't win gold medals, or make, or sell, or export anything. It is the people who create success not politicians. As I have pointed out before, 2022 is going to be a great year for the UK, with the economy at full steam, rising wages, new trade deals, Queen's jubilee, Stoke promoted, and England winning the world cup. (Have I missed anything?) (* the slowest growing continental economy is Antarctica.)
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 25, 2021 8:10:19 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 25, 2021 11:39:50 GMT
Comparing 2021 with 2018 is a nonsense. The world is still largely in the grip of a pandemic as any cursory glance at the statistics will tell you. Look at Australia. Look at Japan where there are protests at holding the paralympics in the middle of a pandemic. Many countries are still suffering badly. In 2018 we were enjoying a post referendum export boom, as world trade was at record levels. It is clearly going to take years to get back to that level. 2018 UK exports were at record levels only exceeded by 2019. As I said in my previous post look at the value of the £ and FTSE, or do you believe "the city" are in denial about Brexit? If anyone is manic about Brexit, it is remainers. The Guardian and Independant are trawling every day for the latest "disaster" that is destroying the country. So far we have had fishing, dairy products exports, touring musicians, students studying abroad, and now we can blame empty shelves on Brexit due to a lorry driver shortage. Everyone involved in the transport industry says the problem has gone on for years, and has only been brought to a head by the pandemic, travel restrictions, drivers "retiring" from long distance haulage, yes Brexit, and tax changes in April. I'm sure the G and I are busy now trying to find something else to blame Brexit for. As for Christianity and the EU there is a view about that you may find difficult to comprehend. This is an old video from circa 2014, but what is going on today between the EU Commission and Hungary and Poland suggests it is still relevant maybe.
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