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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 15, 2021 14:50:02 GMT
I see the government is currently blaming the Road Haulage Association for "deliberately sparking the supply crisis".
Alongside accusations that it is "anti-Brexit", the RHA has been frozen out of meetings with ministers.
That's a good idea, stop talking to the very people you are supposed to be helping, then invoke the "it's all Remainers" fault! The latter is not a bad tactic to be fair, it attracts a lot of support on here.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 15, 2021 15:08:17 GMT
I see the government is currently blaming the Road Haulage Association for "deliberately sparking the supply crisis". Alongside accusations that it is "anti-Brexit", the RHA has been frozen out of meetings with ministers. That's a good idea, stop talking to the very people you are supposed to be helping, then invoke the "it's all Remainers" fault! The latter is not a bad tactic to be fair, it attracts a lot of support on here. As I posted previously the government is clearly at fault for "lighting the blue touch paper " and triggering the HGV driver shortage. There has been a shortage for years throughout the world, the pandemic made it worse due to less training and testing, many drivers have chosen a different lifestyle, foreign drivers have chosen to leave because of Brexit, new licensing has been delayed by DLVA industrial action, but the actual major impact was triggered by IR35 tax changes. inews.co.uk/news/hgv-driver-shortage-tax-change-ir35-lorry-crisis-uk-europe-1239313Normally we applaud a government for closing off a tax loophole or avoidance, but on this occasion they shot themselves (and the nation) in the foot.
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Post by heworksardtho on Oct 15, 2021 16:03:51 GMT
Totally knicker wetting by the media , panic over Why are we trying to bring back in drivers and amending the cabotage ruling then just out of interest? No sure mate think they trying to get the European firms to maximise on deliveries , I suppose it depends what if or any shortages there’s going to be over Xmas etc, ppl seem to be worried by no pigs in blankets
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Post by heworksardtho on Oct 15, 2021 16:07:06 GMT
Totally knicker wetting by the media , panic over Feel free to explain your point here? Cast your mind back to the fuel panic , the media reported one BP garage was suffering fuel deliveries, hence mass panic buying , now they saying there’s going to be things missing in shops in the run up to Xmas , hence the start of panic buying , we not living in World War Two on rations it’s all media driven
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 15, 2021 16:12:51 GMT
Why are we trying to bring back in drivers and amending the cabotage ruling then just out of interest? No sure mate think they trying to get the European firms to maximise on deliveries , I suppose it depends what if or any shortages there’s going to be over Xmas etc, ppl seem to be worried by no pigs in blankets i'm sure people can wrap their own bacon around their own sausages if they're that desperate.......
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 15, 2021 16:58:38 GMT
No sure mate think they trying to get the European firms to maximise on deliveries , I suppose it depends what if or any shortages there’s going to be over Xmas etc, ppl seem to be worried by no pigs in blankets i'm sure people can wrap their own bacon around their own sausages if they're that desperate....... Resilience would appear to be a virtue somewhat lacking in today’s society. Imagine, having to prepare Xmas lunch from scratch rather than buying fully prepared stuff in plastic wrapped tinfoil trays.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 15, 2021 17:46:24 GMT
Just chatted with a Morrison's delivery driver who was new to the area being relocated to help out due to a driver shortage. I asked why, and he said drivers were leaving to go back to HGV work.
Edit: PS The driver delivered everything we ordered except kidney again and a different bag of potatoes to that ordered. Oh dear, Brexit again.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 20, 2021 12:37:19 GMT
The headline of this article suggest Brexit and the pandemic are the causes of the shortage of lorry drivers. www.cityam.com/brexit-and-pandemic-number-of-lorry-drivers-in-uk-down-by-record-53000/The first paragraph reveals that this " estimated 17% plunge in the number of HGV drivers" has been taking place since 2016, i.e. over 5 years. The article states that the industry puts the driver shortage at 100,000, but doesn't state HGV drivers, and if true then presumably the industry was short of 47,000 drivers in 2016. The article then goes on to give some very revealing statistics, namely: There are 268,000 HGV drivers working in the UK 29% of lorry drivers are aged between 46 and 54 (" a 34,000 drop") 20% of lorry drivers are aged between 19 and 35 < third of lorry drivers are over 56 So presumably the <46s and > 56 account for circa 19,000 of the drop. This would confirm that a lot of older drivers left the industry during the pandemic to be with their families and sleep in their own beds at night, and a lot of younger HGV drivers have changed to delivery work for supermarkets and postal services where there was large increase in demand during the pandemic, many reporting they would never go back to HGV work. The article states: " the pandemic, which has taken its toll on EU drivers willing to work in the UK."
It does not state Brexit as it inferred in the headline. The article states that the " numbers of transport and storage vacancies in the UK, stood at 52,000 in the three months to the end of September, up 49% up on the January to March 2020 pre-pandemic level, and with HGV drivers making up around 10% of that sector". So presumably there is a circa 5,000 HGV driver shortage. The article then wanders off on the impacts of the driver shortage leading to other shortages and returns to statistics with the statement: " ONS data shows that there were 16,022 practical driving test passes of the type required to become an HGV driver in the year ending June 2021, compared with an average of 41,731 a year over the previous five-year period." So there were circa 25,000 fewer HGV drivers tested in the year of the pandemic. Assuming a pass rate of 5% that would account for over 1000 fewer drivers entering the system. No statistics are given but it is reasonable to assume that the amount of training was also severely impeded by the pandemic, meanwhile drivers are retiring at the rate of 4% a year which accounts for a loss of typically 10,000 per year. These figures reveal that the deficit in training and passing out new drivers to the number retiring is a huge c. 8,000 per year and hence the high dependence on foreign drivers. The article makes no mention of the impact of the DVLA industrial action or the change in the tax rules (IR35) www.pcs.org.uk/news-events/news/dvla-industrial-action-continues-have-huge-impactwww.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/14/dvla-staff-to-get-payments-worth-735-as-government-seeks-to-avoid-strikes" 54,000 HGV licences awaiting processing" Please note the number in first cityam link at the beginning of this post. inews.co.uk/news/hgv-driver-shortage-tax-change-ir35-lorry-crisis-uk-europe-1239313 : "IR35 is seen by many as having had a bigger impact on the crisis [than Brexit, the pandemic, or poor working conditions] . European drivers are among those leaving the industry – or the country – as without the tax breaks they see little reason to stay driving in the UK."
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Post by richie22 on Oct 20, 2021 17:12:27 GMT
Cleared customers at zeebrugge this morning, tractor unit lad from every corner of Europe parked alone waiting for traction only work off the port, I saw more than a few that hadn’t moved in a week, the government will rue the day they allow these masses back , once their here they’ll never go back, the cabotage rules were very rarely enforced anyhow in the first place.. Thank you Boris and co for helping to strangle the uk haulier
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 20, 2021 17:23:00 GMT
I see the government is currently blaming the Road Haulage Association for "deliberately sparking the supply crisis". Alongside accusations that it is "anti-Brexit", the RHA has been frozen out of meetings with ministers. That's a good idea, stop talking to the very people you are supposed to be helping, then invoke the "it's all Remainers" fault! The latter is not a bad tactic to be fair, it attracts a lot of support on here. As I posted previously the government is clearly at fault for "lighting the blue touch paper " and triggering the HGV driver shortage. There has been a shortage for years throughout the world, the pandemic made it worse due to less training and testing, many drivers have chosen a different lifestyle, foreign drivers have chosen to leave because of Brexit, new licensing has been delayed by DLVA industrial action, but the actual major impact was triggered by IR35 tax changes. inews.co.uk/news/hgv-driver-shortage-tax-change-ir35-lorry-crisis-uk-europe-1239313Normally we applaud a government for closing off a tax loophole or avoidance, but on this occasion they shot themselves (and the nation) in the foot. Any thoughts on the IR35 thing being good or bad overall? The idea sounds good to me. I hate the idea of a "contractor loophole" being abused as it is in some cases, but can't tell about this one. In California Uber/Lyft etc could undercut taxis by leaving their drivers without decent health, pension etc coverage. People sign up to drive and then will realise years later they'd been fucked. Lyft/Uber had to buy an election to stop drivers from being protected.
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Post by dave1 on Oct 20, 2021 17:34:43 GMT
As I posted previously the government is clearly at fault for "lighting the blue touch paper " and triggering the HGV driver shortage. There has been a shortage for years throughout the world, the pandemic made it worse due to less training and testing, many drivers have chosen a different lifestyle, foreign drivers have chosen to leave because of Brexit, new licensing has been delayed by DLVA industrial action, but the actual major impact was triggered by IR35 tax changes. inews.co.uk/news/hgv-driver-shortage-tax-change-ir35-lorry-crisis-uk-europe-1239313Normally we applaud a government for closing off a tax loophole or avoidance, but on this occasion they shot themselves (and the nation) in the foot. Any thoughts on the IR35 thing being good or bad overall? The idea sounds good to me. I hate the idea of a "contractor loophole" being abused as it is in some cases, but can't tell about this one. In California Uber/Lyft etc could undercut taxis by leaving their drivers without decent health, pension etc coverage. People sign up to drive and then will realise years later they'd been fucked. Lyft/Uber had to buy an election to stop drivers from being protected. There are now solutions in the market place that mean an agency driver can operate on an outside IR35 basis. As a result I know that some of the big retailers currently accept limited company drivers via their approved agencies
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Post by harryburrows on Oct 20, 2021 18:00:56 GMT
Any thoughts on the IR35 thing being good or bad overall? The idea sounds good to me. I hate the idea of a "contractor loophole" being abused as it is in some cases, but can't tell about this one. In California Uber/Lyft etc could undercut taxis by leaving their drivers without decent health, pension etc coverage. People sign up to drive and then will realise years later they'd been fucked. Lyft/Uber had to buy an election to stop drivers from being protected. There are now solutions in the market place that mean an agency driver can operate on an outside IR35 basis. As a result I know that some of the big retailers currently accept limited company drivers via their approved agencies My brother in law drives a road sweeper at night around motorway roadworks, building sites etc , he earns very good money and pays hardly any tax due to all the ridiculous expenses he puts through. His accountant called him earlier this year and said he'd had a warning from HMRC that all the drivers on his books either resubmit their tax returns and stop taking the piss or else they would all be under investigation. Its been coming
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 22, 2021 19:05:35 GMT
Any thoughts on the IR35 thing being good or bad overall? The idea sounds good to me. I hate the idea of a "contractor loophole" being abused as it is in some cases, but can't tell about this one. In California Uber/Lyft etc could undercut taxis by leaving their drivers without decent health, pension etc coverage. People sign up to drive and then will realise years later they'd been fucked. Lyft/Uber had to buy an election to stop drivers from being protected. There are now solutions in the market place that mean an agency driver can operate on an outside IR35 basis. As a result I know that some of the big retailers currently accept limited company drivers via their approved agencies As usual things sound way more complicated than you pick up from the media! I see the good sides of contractors but after some friends drove for Lyft and Uber I'm really nervous about it being abused to fuck over working folk. Sounds like we have to pay more for deliveries if we want workers to be paid properly *and* have them cover taxes, benefits etc.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 10, 2021 10:38:10 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 22, 2021 12:23:16 GMT
Remember the great Xmas food panic from the Autumn…
I was wondering if anyone has had any difficulty getting hold of any seasonal scran?
From what I’ve seen, supermarkets are bursting at the seams with all their usual (overpriced) festive offerings including pigs in blankets.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 22, 2021 12:56:19 GMT
Remember the great Xmas food panic from the Autumn… I was wondering if anyone has had any difficulty getting hold of any seasonal scran? From what I’ve seen, supermarkets are bursting at the seams with all their usual (overpriced) festive offerings including pigs in blankets. Some fresh produce have been a struggle to get hold of but for products like beers, wines and spirits, festive chocolates etc. supermarkets are bursting at the seams. It's actually a nationwide shortage of fridge trailers and temp control warehousing that is adding to the issue. The data I see for certainly retailers show pretty slow sales for this time of year mind........
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 22, 2021 14:31:09 GMT
Remember the great Xmas food panic from the Autumn… I was wondering if anyone has had any difficulty getting hold of any seasonal scran? From what I’ve seen, supermarkets are bursting at the seams with all their usual (overpriced) festive offerings including pigs in blankets. Sshhhhhhh, you can't order turkey on Tesco's website near me. I don't know if that means Tesco have no turkey nationwide. But don't tell anyone, you'll start nationwide panic buying. Seriously though, the number of HGV drivers is increasing rapidly, but don't tell the doom and gloom community. www.thegrocer.co.uk/technology-and-supply-chain/hgv-driver-shortage-eases-as-hauliers-return-to-workforce/662181.article
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Dec 22, 2021 17:47:18 GMT
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Post by richie22 on Dec 22, 2021 18:03:10 GMT
Give it another two days and the driver shortage will be over . Tipped Lidl north fleet this morning 3 1/4 hours to tip 32 pallets off chaos … and it all winds off in the early hours of Friday
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 22, 2021 20:06:19 GMT
It’s an interesting survey but one that you need to be careful about interpreting. For example, this question… Britons are far more likely to have noticed reports of petrol or diesel supply issues than other countries. If there hadn’t been media inspired hysteria, would there have been an issue. It’s fair to say the answer is no, because there has been no subsequent shortage “issue”. So, those “reports of petrol or diesel supply issues” are not so much a question of supply issues but of reports of supply issues. It’s an important distinction. Same applies to the great toilet roll shortage of 2020 and other recent issues. It leads me to wonder if we have become the nation in the world most prone to hysterical responses.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 24, 2021 20:35:54 GMT
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 24, 2021 23:14:10 GMT
It’s an interesting survey but one that you need to be careful about interpreting. For example, this question… Britons are far more likely to have noticed reports of petrol or diesel supply issues than other countries. If there hadn’t been media inspired hysteria, would there have been an issue. It’s fair to say the answer is no, because there has been no subsequent shortage “issue”. So, those “reports of petrol or diesel supply issues” are not so much a question of supply issues but of reports of supply issues. It’s an important distinction. Same applies to the great toilet roll shortage of 2020 and other recent issues. It leads me to wonder if we have become the nation in the world most prone to hysterical responses. I dunno mate, a quick search for "black friday TV fight" makes home feel really fucking calm.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Dec 29, 2021 18:27:44 GMT
It’s an interesting survey but one that you need to be careful about interpreting. For example, this question… Britons are far more likely to have noticed reports of petrol or diesel supply issues than other countries. If there hadn’t been media inspired hysteria, would there have been an issue. It’s fair to say the answer is no, because there has been no subsequent shortage “issue”. So, those “reports of petrol or diesel supply issues” are not so much a question of supply issues but of reports of supply issues. It’s an important distinction. Same applies to the great toilet roll shortage of 2020 and other recent issues. It leads me to wonder if we have become the nation in the world most prone to hysterical responses. Looks like Lateral flow test shortages could be the new focus for hysteria.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 24, 2022 9:19:18 GMT
The headline of this article suggest Brexit and the pandemic are the causes of the shortage of lorry drivers. www.cityam.com/brexit-and-pandemic-number-of-lorry-drivers-in-uk-down-by-record-53000/The first paragraph reveals that this " estimated 17% plunge in the number of HGV drivers" has been taking place since 2016, i.e. over 5 years. The article states that the industry puts the driver shortage at 100,000, but doesn't state HGV drivers, and if true then presumably the industry was short of 47,000 drivers in 2016. The article then goes on to give some very revealing statistics, namely: There are 268,000 HGV drivers working in the UK 29% of lorry drivers are aged between 46 and 54 (" a 34,000 drop") 20% of lorry drivers are aged between 19 and 35 < third of lorry drivers are over 56 So presumably the <46s and > 56 account for circa 19,000 of the drop. This would confirm that a lot of older drivers left the industry during the pandemic to be with their families and sleep in their own beds at night, and a lot of younger HGV drivers have changed to delivery work for supermarkets and postal services where there was large increase in demand during the pandemic, many reporting they would never go back to HGV work. The article states: " the pandemic, which has taken its toll on EU drivers willing to work in the UK."
It does not state Brexit as it inferred in the headline. The article states that the " numbers of transport and storage vacancies in the UK, stood at 52,000 in the three months to the end of September, up 49% up on the January to March 2020 pre-pandemic level, and with HGV drivers making up around 10% of that sector". So presumably there is a circa 5,000 HGV driver shortage. The article then wanders off on the impacts of the driver shortage leading to other shortages and returns to statistics with the statement: " ONS data shows that there were 16,022 practical driving test passes of the type required to become an HGV driver in the year ending June 2021, compared with an average of 41,731 a year over the previous five-year period." So there were circa 25,000 fewer HGV drivers tested in the year of the pandemic. Assuming a pass rate of 5% that would account for over 1000 fewer drivers entering the system. No statistics are given but it is reasonable to assume that the amount of training was also severely impeded by the pandemic, meanwhile drivers are retiring at the rate of 4% a year which accounts for a loss of typically 10,000 per year. These figures reveal that the deficit in training and passing out new drivers to the number retiring is a huge c. 8,000 per year and hence the high dependence on foreign drivers. The article makes no mention of the impact of the DVLA industrial action or the change in the tax rules (IR35) www.pcs.org.uk/news-events/news/dvla-industrial-action-continues-have-huge-impactwww.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/14/dvla-staff-to-get-payments-worth-735-as-government-seeks-to-avoid-strikes" 54,000 HGV licences awaiting processing" Please note the number in first cityam link at the beginning of this post. inews.co.uk/news/hgv-driver-shortage-tax-change-ir35-lorry-crisis-uk-europe-1239313 : "IR35 is seen by many as having had a bigger impact on the crisis [than Brexit, the pandemic, or poor working conditions] . European drivers are among those leaving the industry – or the country – as without the tax breaks they see little reason to stay driving in the UK." Yesterday the Chancellor of Exchequer scrapped the IR 35 regulations that triggered the lorry driver shortage. They will end in April, just 2 years after their introduction. Another example of Tory mismanagement by introducing them in the first place.
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