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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Oct 2, 2021 16:13:42 GMT
One of the few positives coming from this is the companies trying modal switch to rail. A recent study suggested that around a third of HGV tonne-kilometres could realistically switch to rail over the next 20-30 years , and this will be an important part of reducing emissions.
Key to achieving this will be having the capacity on the railways. HS2 plays an important part of this but much more is needed. Locally the Stoke-Derby line has been identified as a potential alternative trunk route for intermodal traffic to Trafford Park if cleared for the loading gauge of container trains.
Extensive electrification is now accepted as essential as well , starting with a series of 'infill' schemes which would make big strides in rail freight switching from diesel to electric haulage. Electrification frees up capacity because, for example, a typical size diesel-hauled freight train climbing to Shap on the West Coast mainline will crest the summit at 15 mph, holding up everything behind it, whereas modern electric can do it at 60mph.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 2, 2021 16:58:03 GMT
One of the effects of the pandemic is the cancellation of HS2 extension to Leeds and Crossrail2.
There is clearly limit to how much borrowing the government can do the pull the country out of the pandemic.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Oct 2, 2021 17:22:51 GMT
One of the effects of the pandemic is the cancellation of HS2 extension to Leeds and Crossrail2. There is clearly limit to how much borrowing the government can do the pull the country out of the pandemic. Seems there's plenty of money for vanity projects like bridges to Northern Ireland. If the government believe the pandemic means we can not afford to make the investments needed to achieve net zero then it should say so and stop pretending it's serious. Crossrail 2 has only reached consultation stage. Can't see that Johnson could go ahead with that when claiming to be 'levelling up'. Eastern leg of HS2 is rumoured to be at risk of cancellation. I expect it will be.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 2, 2021 18:40:27 GMT
One of the effects of the pandemic is the cancellation of HS2 extension to Leeds and Crossrail2. There is clearly limit to how much borrowing the government can do the pull the country out of the pandemic. Seems there's plenty of money for vanity projects like bridges to Northern Ireland. If the government believe the pandemic means we can not afford to make the investments needed to achieve net zero then it should say so and stop pretending it's serious. Crossrail 2 has only reached consultation stage. Can't see that Johnson could go ahead with that when claiming to be 'levelling up'. Eastern leg of HS2 is rumoured to be at risk of cancellation. I expect it will be. I didn't mention the bridge because I thought it was a non starter, just Johnson flying a kite. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58574878
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Oct 2, 2021 19:29:25 GMT
One of the few positives coming from this is the companies trying modal switch to rail. A recent study suggested that around a third of HGV tonne-kilometres could realistically switch to rail over the next 20-30 years , and this will be an important part of reducing emissions. Key to achieving this will be having the capacity on the railways. HS2 plays an important part of this but much more is needed. Locally the Stoke-Derby line has been identified as a potential alternative trunk route for intermodal traffic to Trafford Park if cleared for the loading gauge of container trains. Extensive electrification is now accepted as essential as well , starting with a series of 'infill' schemes which would make big strides in rail freight switching from diesel to electric haulage. Electrification frees up capacity because, for example, a typical size diesel-hauled freight train climbing to Shap on the West Coast mainline will crest the summit at 15 mph, holding up everything behind it, whereas modern electric can do it at 60mph. Even one accepts HS2 to be beneficial (separate debate) those benefits are not going to be seen for another 20 years. In the short(er) term significant benefits could be delivered through combining supply chains for greater efficiency and thereby reducing the number of drivers required, the number of vehicles on the road, and the amount of CO2 churned out. However in order to get there it would take a complete change of mindset (ie competitors being willing to collaborate and share deliveries). But as there doesn't seem to be any winners in the way we're presently operating it is perhaps something that government should be pushing and/or facilitating.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 2, 2021 20:20:44 GMT
One of the few positives coming from this is the companies trying modal switch to rail. A recent study suggested that around a third of HGV tonne-kilometres could realistically switch to rail over the next 20-30 years , and this will be an important part of reducing emissions. Key to achieving this will be having the capacity on the railways. HS2 plays an important part of this but much more is needed. Locally the Stoke-Derby line has been identified as a potential alternative trunk route for intermodal traffic to Trafford Park if cleared for the loading gauge of container trains. Extensive electrification is now accepted as essential as well , starting with a series of 'infill' schemes which would make big strides in rail freight switching from diesel to electric haulage. Electrification frees up capacity because, for example, a typical size diesel-hauled freight train climbing to Shap on the West Coast mainline will crest the summit at 15 mph, holding up everything behind it, whereas modern electric can do it at 60mph. Even one accepts HS2 to be beneficial (separate debate) those benefits are not going to be seen for another 20 years. In the short(er) term significant benefits could be delivered through combining supply chains for greater efficiency and thereby reducing the number of drivers required, the number of vehicles on the road, and the amount of CO2 churned out. However in order to get there it would take a complete change of mindset (ie competitors being willing to collaborate and share deliveries). But as there doesn't seem to be any winners in the way we're presently operating it is perhaps something that government should be pushing and/or facilitating. That's correct. The main benefit of HS2 is it releases the old Victorian rail line to be used solely for slow local commuting traffic and moving goods, by moving faster intercity to a purpose built fast route. But as you correctly state that cannot be effectively implemented until HS2 is completed. It is far more productive to have trains that travel at widely different speeds on separate lines. If trains are travelling at the same speed then theoretically you can load the line up to the stopping time of a train. The old Victorian route is too "bendy" for very high speed, and it is impractical/too expensive to widen the route because it travels through huge lengths of built-up area.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Oct 2, 2021 20:32:32 GMT
Even one accepts HS2 to be beneficial (separate debate) those benefits are not going to be seen for another 20 years. In the short(er) term significant benefits could be delivered through combining supply chains for greater efficiency and thereby reducing the number of drivers required, the number of vehicles on the road, and the amount of CO2 churned out. However in order to get there it would take a complete change of mindset (ie competitors being willing to collaborate and share deliveries). But as there doesn't seem to be any winners in the way we're presently operating it is perhaps something that government should be pushing and/or facilitating. That's correct. The main benefit of HS2 is it releases the old Victorian rail line to be used solely for slow local commuting traffic and moving goods, by moving faster intercity to a purpose built fast route. But as you correctly state that cannot be effectively implemented until HS2 is completed. It is far more productive to have trains that travel at widely different speeds on separate lines. If trains are travelling at the same speed then theoretically you can load the line up to the stopping time of a train. The old Victorian route is too "bendy" for very high speed, and it is impractical/too expensive to widen the route because it travels through huge lengths of built-up area. Wasn't even thinking of trains tbh - still on road transport. Simple example - take Newcastle -under Lyme - at one end a Sainsbury at the other a Mozzers. Separate supply chains each getting - say - 3 deliveries per day - though not all necessarily full. Combine tbose supply chains for better vehicle fill and you may be able to supply same volume with five deliveries rather than six (or even four) - 2 fewer drivers and 2 fewer vehicles required - now multiply that across the nation and how many vehicles or drivers fewer could the same volume be supplied with? Fewer vehicles on rosd, less CO2 and remaining traffic moving faster. Retailers could still compete on range, pricing, in store experience and opening hours but not sure supply chain has ever been a massive differentiator. And this is something we could do NOW - so long as there is the will
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 3, 2021 18:28:09 GMT
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Oct 4, 2021 20:50:29 GMT
I have got the letter
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 5, 2021 9:46:37 GMT
27 EU tanker driver visas...that'll sort it out!
Wonder how many truck drivers will bother...
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Post by richie22 on Oct 5, 2021 12:37:23 GMT
That's correct. The main benefit of HS2 is it releases the old Victorian rail line to be used solely for slow local commuting traffic and moving goods, by moving faster intercity to a purpose built fast route. But as you correctly state that cannot be effectively implemented until HS2 is completed. It is far more productive to have trains that travel at widely different speeds on separate lines. If trains are travelling at the same speed then theoretically you can load the line up to the stopping time of a train. The old Victorian route is too "bendy" for very high speed, and it is impractical/too expensive to widen the route because it travels through huge lengths of built-up area. Wasn't even thinking of trains tbh - still on road transport. Simple example - take Newcastle -under Lyme - at one end a Sainsbury at the other a Mozzers. Separate supply chains each getting - say - 3 deliveries per day - though not all necessarily full. Combine tbose supply chains for better vehicle fill and you may be able to supply same volume with five deliveries rather than six (or even four) - 2 fewer drivers and 2 fewer vehicles required - now multiply that across the nation and how many vehicles or drivers fewer could the same volume be supplied with? Fewer vehicles on rosd, less CO2 and remaining traffic moving faster. Retailers could still compete on range, pricing, in store experience and opening hours but not sure supply chain has ever been a massive differentiator. And this is something we could do NOW - so long as there is the will I once did a load of flowers from Holland , timed delivery’s. Asda Wakefield / Morrisons Wakefield. Being valentines they were strict on time slots, I had Morrisons to come of second, so off to Asda first , immediately behind the door I had 4 pallets of Morrisons stock behind that 22 pallets of Asda. This was a problem as Asda refused to touch anyone else’s product. So they ‘rejected’ it… not the end of the world, Morrisons Wakefield wasn’t ten minutes away so I go to get rid of them , all good then back to Asda. Asda now rejected it straight off without even allowing me onto a loading bay because ‘it was timed out and I was late’ so end up carting them back to ipl at Peterborough… supermarkets are a law unto themselves. Don’t expect any cooperation from each other, they’ve spent years shafting the haulage sector .
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Oct 5, 2021 12:55:16 GMT
Wasn't even thinking of trains tbh - still on road transport. Simple example - take Newcastle -under Lyme - at one end a Sainsbury at the other a Mozzers. Separate supply chains each getting - say - 3 deliveries per day - though not all necessarily full. Combine tbose supply chains for better vehicle fill and you may be able to supply same volume with five deliveries rather than six (or even four) - 2 fewer drivers and 2 fewer vehicles required - now multiply that across the nation and how many vehicles or drivers fewer could the same volume be supplied with? Fewer vehicles on rosd, less CO2 and remaining traffic moving faster. Retailers could still compete on range, pricing, in store experience and opening hours but not sure supply chain has ever been a massive differentiator. And this is something we could do NOW - so long as there is the will I once did a load of flowers from Holland , timed delivery’s. Asda Wakefield / Morrisons Wakefield. Being valentines they were strict on time slots, I had Morrisons to come of second, so off to Asda first , immediately behind the door I had 4 pallets of Morrisons stock behind that 22 pallets of Asda. This was a problem as Asda refused to touch anyone else’s product. So they ‘rejected’ it… not the end of the world, Morrisons Wakefield wasn’t ten minutes away so I go to get rid of them , all good then back to Asda. Asda now rejected it straight off without even allowing me onto a loading bay because ‘it was timed out and I was late’ so end up carting them back to ipl at Peterborough… supermarkets are a law unto themselves. Don’t expect any cooperation from each other, they’ve spent years shafting the haulage sector . I know mate - worked with them for years (including bringing flowers in from NL) which is why I said in an earlier post that it would take a complete change of mindset. But if we are to tackle massive existential issues like climate change then radical behavioural change like collaborating where once we competed are going to be just as important as any technological advances.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 11, 2021 10:07:36 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 14, 2021 20:35:34 GMT
They are literally just making it up as they go along.....
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Post by PotteringThrough on Oct 14, 2021 20:59:54 GMT
They are literally just making it up as they go along..... By unlimited does he mean, like, totally unlimited e.g. 24/7 or within the existing rules on driving times etc.?
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 14, 2021 21:05:37 GMT
They are literally just making it up as they go along..... I thought this was your area, I've heard drivers on lbc twice over last few weeks saying cabotage rules we introduced to match the EU could be relaxed to help out because at the moment EU drivers are restricted to 2 other jobs once they are in the UK.
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 14, 2021 21:06:56 GMT
They are literally just making it up as they go along..... By unlimited does he mean, like, totally unlimited e.g. 24/7 or within the existing rules on driving times etc.? He means unlimited as opposed to the 2 jobs they are currently allowed to undertake in the UK nothing to do with driving time.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Oct 14, 2021 21:24:51 GMT
By unlimited does he mean, like, totally unlimited e.g. 24/7 or within the existing rules on driving times etc.? He means unlimited as opposed to the 2 jobs they are currently allowed to undertake in the UK nothing to do with driving time. What he means is that we need them more than they need us.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 14, 2021 21:59:01 GMT
They are literally just making it up as they go along..... I thought this was your area, I've heard drivers on lbc twice over last few weeks saying cabotage rules we introduced to match the EU could be relaxed to help out because at the moment EU drivers are restricted to 2 other jobs once they are in the UK. I fully understand cabotage rules. But it's not a British crisis it's a Europe wide crisis so I'm told, so why would EU drivers hang around in the UK when they need to get back and cover their own shortfalls?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 14, 2021 22:00:22 GMT
They are literally just making it up as they go along..... By unlimited does he mean, like, totally unlimited e.g. 24/7 or within the existing rules on driving times etc.? Existing driving hours still, but knowing Shapps he'll extend them to 18 hours a day soon anyway.......
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 14, 2021 22:06:38 GMT
I thought this was your area, I've heard drivers on lbc twice over last few weeks saying cabotage rules we introduced to match the EU could be relaxed to help out because at the moment EU drivers are restricted to 2 other jobs once they are in the UK. I fully understand cabotage rules. But it's not a British crisis it's a Europe wide crisis so I'm told, so why would EU drivers hang around in the UK when they need to get back and cover their own shortfalls? They may have to mention the B word soon........ Well that will depend on who offers the most money, high percentage of drivers are self employed even if they don't stick around the biggest benefit is they can now take a full load back from the UK whilst at the moment a high percentage go back empty, can't remember what % the driver said on LBC so a UK based driver is then freed up to go elsewhere.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 14, 2021 22:13:02 GMT
I fully understand cabotage rules. But it's not a British crisis it's a Europe wide crisis so I'm told, so why would EU drivers hang around in the UK when they need to get back and cover their own shortfalls? They may have to mention the B word soon........ Well that will depend on who offers the most money, high percentage of drivers are self employed even if they don't stick around the biggest benefit is they can now take a full load back from the UK whilst at the moment a high percentage go back empty, can't remember what % the driver said on LBC so a UK based driver is then freed up to go elsewhere. It will have very little impact, just like the temporary visas for drivers has. For many it's just more hassle than it's worth - getting paid for example - even bottom feeders like Willie Betz gave up on it......
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Post by heworksardtho on Oct 15, 2021 7:39:47 GMT
Totally knicker wetting by the media , panic over
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 15, 2021 7:45:56 GMT
So, so far we've had no to temporary visas for foreign drivers, lowering of standards around driving hours, yes to temporary visas for foreign drivers, Army drivers being used, relaxation of rules about how often foreign drivers can travel into the country...going well, isn't it?
Not all that surprising given they presided over one of the "worst ever public health failures".
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 15, 2021 8:27:46 GMT
Totally knicker wetting by the media , panic over Why are we trying to bring back in drivers and amending the cabotage ruling then just out of interest?
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Post by heworksardtho on Oct 15, 2021 11:51:44 GMT
Totally knicker wetting by the media , panic over Why are we trying to bring back in drivers and amending the cabotage ruling then just out of interest? Don’t know , all I know is with running a haulage business myself we have had no problems whatsoever, or other transport businesses I know , it’s the media driving the propaganda a bit like they did with fuel , and now they keep saying there will be shortages at Xmas everybody will be panic buying
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 15, 2021 12:01:51 GMT
They are literally just making it up as they go along..... They always did mate.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 15, 2021 12:09:46 GMT
Totally knicker wetting by the media , panic over Feel free to explain your point here?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 15, 2021 12:38:26 GMT
Why are we trying to bring back in drivers and amending the cabotage ruling then just out of interest? Don’t know , all I know is with running a haulage business myself we have had no problems whatsoever, or other transport businesses I know , it’s the media driving the propaganda a bit like they did with fuel , and now they keep saying there will be shortages at Xmas everybody will be panic buying If you run a haulage company are you seriously telling me that no companies have approached you to do additional work for them over the last few months due to a lack of capacity in the network? You can't be working in general haulage I'm sorry - must be tippers or some other specialist part of the sector you're dealing in - it's great that you haven't experienced issues but they are absolutely out there.......
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Post by Veritas on Oct 15, 2021 14:38:43 GMT
They are literally just making it up as they go along..... No it won't Grant just like your plan to give temporary visas to 5,000 foreign drivers didn't produce 5,000 extra drivers. What was the last count? 30!
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