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Post by franklin on Aug 15, 2021 11:07:17 GMT
We should never have been there in the first place, we learned nothing from the Russia /Afghan war. 100% agree complete waste of time. |
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Post by franklin on Aug 15, 2021 11:09:32 GMT
They need to sort their own shit out its as simple as that but unfortunately they have no desire for the fight, 20yrs of support and the first time they need to stand on their own two feet and for the people to be counted nothing but capitulation. Was it a mistake to ever think they were ready to move from a Stone Age satrapy to a liberal democracy run by someone like Nick Clegg? I think it was too many "western" counties seem to think "our" way is the only and best way and being honest nothing was ever going to change it would take centuries not decades. |
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 15, 2021 11:13:13 GMT
Ultimately that is the solution unless they want to go back to living in the 10th century or whatever, however they were severly let down air and missle support just disappeared overnight, corruption is so rife many of the soldiers dont receive pay so its no surprise they just gave up. I'm not sure I've seen many taliban flying and bombing their way to domination they've walked in. It's not missile and air support they need it's the will to want change. As for corruption again its down to the people to demand and make changes. The army was trained to fight and rely on this kind of support and when it is most needed its not there. |
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Post by franklin on Aug 15, 2021 11:19:42 GMT
I'm not sure I've seen many taliban flying and bombing their way to domination they've walked in. It's not missile and air support they need it's the will to want change. As for corruption again its down to the people to demand and make changes. The army was trained to fight and rely on this kind of support and when it is most needed its not there. Neither are they and of course its tough but if they're unable to put up the slightest resistance after 20yrs then there really is no way to bring about change. This has been going on for nearly 50yrs and they are no further along the road to democracy than they were back then. |
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Post by mattador78 on Aug 15, 2021 11:21:22 GMT
When they did that to the Iraqis in 91 there was condemnation over the massacre. That aside it’s a cracking idea just use drones so there’s no loss of life on the allied side Too right, what does a few thousand dead civilians as collateral damage matter? Who mentioned civilians? In 91 they went after the retreating Iraqi army who were legging it in with all their stolen goods and cars from Kuwait, which then was confused with civilian traffic due to the amount of saloon cars mixed in with the Iraqi army. There’s going to be more than a few thousand dead and persecuted now the taliban are in control. Basically the allied governments have done a reverse on the country give a large portion a decade of liberty and now legged it leaving it back to medieval justice and morals. |
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 15, 2021 12:39:43 GMT
The army was trained to fight and rely on this kind of support and when it is most needed its not there. Neither are they and of course its tough but if they're unable to put up the slightest resistance after 20yrs then there really is no way to bring about change. This has been going on for nearly 50yrs and they are no further along the road to democracy than they were back then. Not sure about no resistance seems they were quite ruthless attack isolated outposts slaughter everyone let word spread then tell people surrender or die and resistance in a futile cause ebbs away. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 15, 2021 13:21:24 GMT
As unpalatable as it might be China could play a big part in trying to get some kind of stability back in Afghanistan, they have billions of dollars worth of investments in the Belt and Road Initiative and a good relationship with Pakistan. We've retreated so far and so quickly that the flicker of light at the end of the tunnel went out a long time ago, anyone who can appeal to the "more moderate" wing of the Taliban (even bastards like the Taliban have pragmatists amongst them) might help the situation.
We need to get those interpreters and other Afghans that are in immediate danger due to their working relationship with the allied forces out of the country to a safe haven where possible, then allow a sovereign nation the chance to stabilise on their own terms and not those of the UK and America.
We either go back into the country full throttle to eliminate Taliban forces for good this time (not sure that's even possible) or hold our noses and come up with a workable solution, doing nothing whilst commenting on how evil the Taliban are would be an insult and a disaster........
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 15, 2021 13:53:22 GMT
As unpalatable as it might be China could play a big part in trying to get some kind of stability back in Afghanistan, they have billions of dollars worth of investments in the Belt and Road Initiative and a good relationship with Pakistan. We've retreated so far and so quickly that the flicker of light at the end of the tunnel went out a long time ago, anyone who can appeal to the "more moderate" wing of the Taliban (even bastards like the Taliban have pragmatists amongst them) might help the situation. We need to get those interpreters and other Afghans that are in immediate danger due to their working relationship with the allied forces out of the country to a safe haven where possible, then allow a sovereign nation the chance to stabilise on their own terms and not those of the UK and America. We either go back into the country full throttle to eliminate Taliban forces for good this time (not sure that's even possible) or hold our noses and come up with a workable solution, doing nothing whilst commenting on how evil the Taliban are would be an insult and a disaster........ The one hope we have is that Afghanistan today is very different to 1996. As you say, the country has become part of the world economy to some degree and it’s people, particularly the women, have become an active part of their society. In other words the Taliban is not welcomed as it was first time around when they were seen as bringing some stability to a chaotic country. Now they are seen as the bringers of chaos. Whether that will make any difference is uncertain. But, there is some hope in the long term. Help will be needed, and that may come from China as well as the west and others. What form that help takes is something that is way beyond my knowledge. |
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Post by franklin on Aug 15, 2021 13:58:12 GMT
Neither are they and of course its tough but if they're unable to put up the slightest resistance after 20yrs then there really is no way to bring about change. This has been going on for nearly 50yrs and they are no further along the road to democracy than they were back then. Not sure about no resistance seems they were quite ruthless attack isolated outposts slaughter everyone let word spread then tell people surrender or die and resistance in a futile cause ebbs away. I'm not talking about individuals resisting I'm talking about the Afgans as a whole are they rising up to support their army and rulers are they joining up to help or are they just sitting by while the slaughter goes on. Imho its the latter "they" don't have the collective desire to change unfortunately. They've been welcoming of the troops fighting on their behalf for the last two decades now is their time. I'm completely against our troops on the ground for another 20yrs if the minute they leave they allow things to return to "taliban" rule. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 15, 2021 15:19:21 GMT
Rumoured
The American puppets the Afghan president and Vice President have fucked off
Whilst helicopters are landing at the American embassy
Bidens Saigon
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Post by heworksardtho on Aug 15, 2021 15:51:25 GMT
Biden has his finger on the red button ready to Nuke them like they did to bring Japan to it’s knees
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Post by cheadlepotter on Aug 15, 2021 16:14:37 GMT
Biden has his finger on the red button ready to Nuke them like they did to bring Japan to it’s knees The only way he’d press it is if he fell asleep on it. |
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Post by ravey123 on Aug 15, 2021 18:13:58 GMT
We should never have been there in the first place, we learned nothing from the Russia /Afghan war. 100% agree complete waste of time. Now it’s all back to square one with the added bonus that the Taliban may now have billions of 💵 of arms and equipment. |
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Post by yyy on Aug 15, 2021 18:24:50 GMT
Donald trumpet never started wars, Child sniffer Joe and his cronies obamas, clintons & bushes have been back in 5 minutes and they are unsettling the region. War mongerers the lot of them, each and everyone took the u.s and Britain to some sort of war, Biden doing the same but as a puppet because he's senile
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Post by zerps on Aug 15, 2021 18:25:49 GMT
😂
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Post by cerebralstokie on Aug 15, 2021 19:25:21 GMT
Donald trumpet never started wars, Child sniffer Joe and his cronies obamas, clintons & bushes have been back in 5 minutes and they are unsettling the region. War mongerers the lot of them, each and everyone took the u.s and Britain to some sort of war, Biden doing the same but as a puppet because he's senile Biden was only continuing a withdrawal strategy initiated under the Trump regime. |
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Post by henry on Aug 15, 2021 20:20:30 GMT
Donald trumpet never started wars, Child sniffer Joe and his cronies obamas, clintons & bushes have been back in 5 minutes and they are unsettling the region. War mongerers the lot of them, each and everyone took the u.s and Britain to some sort of war, Biden doing the same but as a puppet because he's senile Biden was only continuing a withdrawal strategy initiated under the Trump regime. I don't recall Trump pulling all his troops out and saying fuck-em. |
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Post by Foster on Aug 15, 2021 20:37:19 GMT
Biden was only continuing a withdrawal strategy initiated under the Trump regime. I don't recall Trump pulling all his troops out and saying fuck-em. Then you weren't paying attention for the entire time he was President...America first. |
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Post by musik on Aug 15, 2021 20:58:04 GMT
How big are the migration numbers out of Afghanistan?
How to solve the whole situation within the country? The war and massacre situation.
All I've heard so far is there have been rapes of minors and the Swedish Embassy people have escaped. Besides from that, I haven't followed this at all.
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Post by John Smiths Upper Fan on Aug 15, 2021 20:59:15 GMT
I don't recall Trump pulling all his troops out and saying fuck-em. Then you weren't paying attention for the entire time he was President...America first. You think Trump would have allowed this to escalate as far as it has done? I highly doubt it and we'd have followed suit. It's a lost cause now, as it always has been but to sit back and let it all be in vain is a disgrace to those who lost their lives and their family's. Whatever they try to brand them as ultimately this is a terrorist organisation that should not be endorsed by any country. Sadly Russia and China seem to be doing so. Money, eh. |
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Post by lordb on Aug 15, 2021 21:01:57 GMT
Then you weren't paying attention for the entire time he was President...America first. You think Trump would have allowed this to escalate as far as it has done? I highly doubt it and we'd have followed suit. It's a lost cause now, as it always has been but to sit back and let it all be in vain is a disgrace to those who lost their lives and their family's. Whatever they try to brand them as ultimately this is a terrorist organisation that should not be endorsed by any country. Sadly Russia and China seem to be doing so. Money, eh. I think he would yes. He was on that path However what I don't think Trump would have done is gone into Afghanistan in the first place |
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Post by Foster on Aug 15, 2021 21:05:35 GMT
Then you weren't paying attention for the entire time he was President...America first. You think Trump would have allowed this to escalate as far as it has done? I highly doubt it and we'd have followed suit. It's a lost cause now, as it always has been but to sit back and let it all be in vain is a disgrace to those who lost their lives and their family's. Whatever they try to brand them as ultimately this is a terrorist organisation that should not be endorsed by any country. Sadly Russia and China seem to be doing so. Money, eh. Yes, I think Trump would have sat back and why do we need to do what America says. And why only pick out Russia and China?... I don't see any other country, including the UK doing anything about this. It's a disgrace how we and every other western nation has let down the more liberal Afghan people. Then again, the Taliban offer the west more value in terms of drugs and purchasing weapons than the average Afghani. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 15, 2021 21:11:57 GMT
Then you weren't paying attention for the entire time he was President...America first. You think Trump would have allowed this to escalate as far as it has done? I highly doubt it and we'd have followed suit. It's a lost cause now, as it always has been but to sit back and let it all be in vain is a disgrace to those who lost their lives and their family's. Whatever they try to brand them as ultimately this is a terrorist organisation that should not be endorsed by any country. Sadly Russia and China seem to be doing so. Money, eh. . There are tensions around the globe that would be best dealt with if the likes of the UK held their nose and engages in dialogue with Iran, Russia and China. We seem to be able to do it with the Saudi’s, in fact they get lauded as a friend and ally…… |
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Post by Gods on Aug 15, 2021 21:16:49 GMT
Biden was only continuing a withdrawal strategy initiated under the Trump regime. I don't recall Trump pulling all his troops out and saying fuck-em. Trump's policy, Biden's implementation. |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 15, 2021 21:20:16 GMT
I don't recall Trump pulling all his troops out and saying fuck-em. Trump's policy, Biden's implementation. Pity Rip Van Winkle doesn't have any of his own then. |
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Aug 15, 2021 21:21:20 GMT
Donald Trump spearheaded the withdrawal. In November, the White House told the Pentagon to begin planning to bring the troop levels in Afghanistan and Iraq down to 2,500 each by 15 January, just days before President Donald Trump would leave office. This came one week after Trump fired Defense Secretary Mark Esper for pushing back on Trump's efforts to accelerate the Afghanistan drawdown against the advice of military commanders, including the U.S. and coalition commander Austin S. Miller, setting off a purge of top Pentagon officials. Biden then followed through with what Trump started. Blaming either for the cluster fuck that we are seeing is lazy. This is what happens when our forces “liberate” by way of dropping bombs. Eventually we leave with our tails between our legs.
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Post by heworksardtho on Aug 16, 2021 4:44:18 GMT
11,314 migrants already crossed the channel this year , expect this number to rise significantly because of what’s going on in Afghanistan, we’ve gave the french another 54 million to step up patrols but clearly it’s not working , where we are going to keep putting these ppl I don’t know but clearly we need a strategy
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Post by zerps on Aug 16, 2021 5:28:53 GMT
Plenty of talk online that leaders are jumping all over afghan (look at the state of sky news and are we supposed to believe that they actually give a fuck) because the vaccine narrative is now over / failed. It’s just one big political game of chess. They don’t give a fuck about Afghanistan.
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Post by henry on Aug 16, 2021 7:02:32 GMT
I don't recall Trump pulling all his troops out and saying fuck-em. Trump's policy, Biden's implementation. Trumps fault when he’s not even in power, I see how this works. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 16, 2021 7:18:07 GMT
I don't recall Trump pulling all his troops out and saying fuck-em. Then you weren't paying attention for the entire time he was President...America first. 😁😁😁 Name me an American president who hasn’t been American first |
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