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Post by santy on May 22, 2023 19:07:00 GMT
i am sick and tired hearing about racism whether it's football or on the news papers etc and it's all one way no mention of it being the other way never i was called a white honky by a black lady because i caught her ankle which i duly apologise for made no difference I feel like Tom Segura nailed this a long time ago:
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2023 20:07:11 GMT
I am not convinced this is an English/ British issue, and certainly not a football issue.
A crude joke in the style of Bernard Manning that seemed to originate from Scotland, last month...
What's better than being prime minister of England or first minister of Scotland?
Jim Davidson / Bernard Manning style... being white !
Okay , it's an awful joke in poor taste.
But the fact is whatever, rishi sunak and humza Yousef are ( no Idea!) , They are not white supremacists .
The country is not being run by white people
It's being run by a government and civil service of pretty much, every colour and nationality you can think of.
England/ the UK , is not a particularly racist country .
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Post by iglugluk on May 22, 2023 22:15:21 GMT
I am not convinced this is an English/ British issue, and certainly not a football issue. A crude joke in the style of Bernard Manning that seemed to originate from Scotland, last month... What's better than being prime minister of England or first minister of Scotland? Jim Davidson / Bernard Manning style... being white ! Okay , it's an awful joke in poor taste. But the fact is whatever, rishi sunak and humza Yousef are ( no Idea!) , They are not white supremacists . The country is not being run by white people It's being run by a government and civil service of pretty much, every colour and nationality you can think of. England/ the UK , is not a particularly racist country . It's certainly not an issue particular to Britain and that much is pretty obvious as the thread was created by Bayern in response to an incident in Spain and then incorrectly ( in my opinion ) merged with an old thread by an overzealous admin. representative. UK still has improvement to make too.
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Post by skip on May 22, 2023 23:11:06 GMT
I am not convinced this is an English/ British issue, and certainly not a football issue. A crude joke in the style of Bernard Manning that seemed to originate from Scotland, last month... What's better than being prime minister of England or first minister of Scotland? Jim Davidson / Bernard Manning style... being white ! Okay , it's an awful joke in poor taste. But the fact is whatever, rishi sunak and humza Yousef are ( no Idea!) , They are not white supremacists . The country is not being run by white people It's being run by a government and civil service of pretty much, every colour and nationality you can think of. England/ the UK , is not a particularly racist country . The current British government has policies that are racist.
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Post by cvillestokie on May 22, 2023 23:30:18 GMT
I am not convinced this is an English/ British issue, and certainly not a football issue. A crude joke in the style of Bernard Manning that seemed to originate from Scotland, last month... What's better than being prime minister of England or first minister of Scotland? Jim Davidson / Bernard Manning style... being white ! Okay , it's an awful joke in poor taste. But the fact is whatever, rishi sunak and humza Yousef are ( no Idea!) , They are not white supremacists . The country is not being run by white people It's being run by a government and civil service of pretty much, every colour and nationality you can think of. England/ the UK , is not a particularly racist country . The current British government has policies that are racist. The US had a black President but was still full of racist policies. An exception to the rule is just that, an exception.
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Post by skip on May 23, 2023 0:00:53 GMT
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on May 23, 2023 5:06:09 GMT
Absolutely mate. I actually pretended to slip off the step on my way out and firmly put my elbow in the back of the head of the twat who was sitting in front of me. Made me feel better for a moment or two. Vini Jr seemed to be singling out one person in the crowd. Was it more prominent than tha? Oh my god yes. There was thousands doing it.
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on May 23, 2023 5:10:10 GMT
i am sick and tired hearing about racism whether it's football or on the news papers etc and it's all one way no mention of it being the other way never i was called a white honky by a black lady because i caught her ankle which i duly apologise for made no difference Your grammar alone tells me that you're not particularly bright. Therefore, there's absolutely no point in trying to have a rational conversation with you. Fucking Honky. What a tit🤣
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Post by mestallastokie on May 23, 2023 10:20:49 GMT
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Post by mestallastokie on May 23, 2023 10:31:44 GMT
I wasn't there so Fishlovesoatcakes is better placed than me to know what went on with the rest of the crowd but in the video posted above the guy originally tweeting this is either mishearing, mistranslating or maliciously misleading people. They are chanting 'Tonto' which is a pretty mild insult with no racial connotations. Something like 'fool' (literally 'silly'). They are not chanting 'Mono'. Again, before I am accused of being an apologist for racism which I absolutely am not, I am simply referring to this video and what is being chanted. Facts matter.
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Post by iglugluk on May 23, 2023 10:42:14 GMT
I wasn't there so Fishlovesoatcakes is better placed than me to know what went on with the rest of the crowd but in the video posted above the guy originally tweeting this is either mishearing, mistranslating or maliciously misleading people. They are chanting 'Tonto' which is a pretty mild insult with no racial connotations. Something like 'fool' (literally 'silly'). They are not chanting 'Mono'. Again, before I am accused of being an apologist for racism which I absolutely am not, I am simply referring to this video and what is being chanted. Facts matter. Good piece of information it's all too easy to create confusion and listening to the video with your explanation does put the event into a very different context indeed. ** edit although the club chairman has offered an apology for the racist chanting so it seems there was enough to provoke a public apology which is obviously completely unacceptable in a modern inclusive society. ** additional edit Seems pretty clear there were plenty joining in with the rascist chanting. So yes, fact do matter.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on May 23, 2023 11:19:47 GMT
I wasn't there so Fishlovesoatcakes is better placed than me to know what went on with the rest of the crowd but in the video posted above the guy originally tweeting this is either mishearing, mistranslating or maliciously misleading people. They are chanting 'Tonto' which is a pretty mild insult with no racial connotations. Something like 'fool' (literally 'silly'). They are not chanting 'Mono'. Again, before I am accused of being an apologist for racism which I absolutely am not, I am simply referring to this video and what is being chanted. Facts matter. Correct but in the comments there is another video that does show other fans chanting "mono". You're right though, misrepresenting the particular video they're tweeting about, does no one any favours.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on May 23, 2023 12:47:33 GMT
🤯😔
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Post by cvillestokie on May 23, 2023 12:52:55 GMT
But but but….honky? It’s the same, right?!
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on May 23, 2023 14:55:44 GMT
I wasn't there so Fishlovesoatcakes is better placed than me to know what went on with the rest of the crowd but in the video posted above the guy originally tweeting this is either mishearing, mistranslating or maliciously misleading people. They are chanting 'Tonto' which is a pretty mild insult with no racial connotations. Something like 'fool' (literally 'silly'). They are not chanting 'Mono'. Again, before I am accused of being an apologist for racism which I absolutely am not, I am simply referring to this video and what is being chanted. Facts matter. Yes mate,it was extremely racist for large parts of the game. Very unpleasant to witness...
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Post by mestallastokie on May 23, 2023 16:24:03 GMT
I wasn't there so Fishlovesoatcakes is better placed than me to know what went on with the rest of the crowd but in the video posted above the guy originally tweeting this is either mishearing, mistranslating or maliciously misleading people. They are chanting 'Tonto' which is a pretty mild insult with no racial connotations. Something like 'fool' (literally 'silly'). They are not chanting 'Mono'. Again, before I am accused of being an apologist for racism which I absolutely am not, I am simply referring to this video and what is being chanted. Facts matter. Yes mate,it was extremely racist for large parts of the game. Very unpleasant to witness... I am glad I didn't go. I remember a match 20 years ago where the same people spent half the game singing Angloma´s name and the the other half making monkey noises at Roberto Carlos. But I guess you can't expect joined-up thinking from idiots.
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Post by PotterLog on May 23, 2023 16:37:27 GMT
Yes mate,it was extremely racist for large parts of the game. Very unpleasant to witness... I am glad I didn't go. I remember a match 20 years ago where the same people spent half the game singing Angloma´s name and the the other half making monkey noises at Roberto Carlos. But I guess you can't expect joined-up thinking from idiots. Mestalla can I ask.. I also don't think the whole crowd were chanting "mono" in that one video above but is it really feasible they were shouting "tonto", as claimed? Is that a word Spanish football fans would use in that context? I know South American football and from that perspective it seems an almost comical, child-like insult for a crowd to use.
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Post by mestallastokie on May 23, 2023 16:52:44 GMT
I am glad I didn't go. I remember a match 20 years ago where the same people spent half the game singing Angloma´s name and the the other half making monkey noises at Roberto Carlos. But I guess you can't expect joined-up thinking from idiots. Mestalla can I ask.. I also don't think the whole crowd were chanting "mono" in that one video above but is it really feasible they were shouting "tonto", as claimed? Is that a word Spanish football fans would use in that context? I know South American football and from that perspective it seems an almost comical, child-like insult for a crowd to use. Yes, I have heard it chanted (often at the ref) and it's not quite as child-like as 'silly' in English. Maybe idiot would be more accurate. (Idiota in Spanish Spanish is much stronger than that. I really don't know the nuances of 'tonto' and 'idiota' in S. America). It is clearly what they are chanting in that video unless the sound has been doctored. But then we would be claiming someone changes 'mono' to 'tonto' to then claim they are chanting 'mono' which wouldn't make much sense.
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Post by jebbstuart on May 23, 2023 21:16:52 GMT
Racism is a wider problem in society, football is one face of society like hooliganism in the 1980's and 1990's it was a problem of society exhibited through football. Do we really understand it NO do we really want to solve it probably but will take a generation to change. We all have a viewpoint and it is how we act that will change society, by saying on here it's all terrible, shocking and things should change, then why haven't you done something proactive. Honestly are you shocked if someone said you Black/Brown xyz, cos i am not, i hear it am i surprised no. Do i agree with no. I work with young players of all shades of colour, religion and orientation, i personally in my opinion treat them equally,but do i? have i ever asked them No. All i can do is do my best. Will the world ever change probable in the future but it starts with everyone and we are on a long pathway, we need to discuss and keep trying to move forward a millimeter at a time. Is there a simple answer No it is a combined effort, it will take years but we have to recognize the problem and on many many fronts try to resolve it. Banning people from football will not solve the bigger problem it just moves it from one place to another. It an ongoing problem we just need to start and continue the change.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 23, 2023 22:05:31 GMT
Racism is a wider problem in society, football is one face of society like hooliganism in the 1980's and 1990's it was a problem of society exhibited through football. Do we really understand it NO do we really want to solve it probably but will take a generation to change. We all have a viewpoint and it is how we act that will change society, by saying on here it's all terrible, shocking and things should change, then why haven't you done something proactive. Honestly are you shocked if someone said you Black/Brown xyz, cos i am not, i hear it am i surprised no. Do i agree with no. I work with young players of all shades of colour, religion and orientation, i personally in my opinion treat them equally,but do i? have i ever asked them No. All i can do is do my best. Will the world ever change probable in the future but it starts with everyone and we are on a long pathway, we need to discuss and keep trying to move forward a millimeter at a time. Is there a simple answer No it is a combined effort, it will take years but we have to recognize the problem and on many many fronts try to resolve it. Banning people from football will not solve the bigger problem it just moves it from one place to another. It an ongoing problem we just need to start and continue the change. Banning racist fuckwits might send a message that being a racist fuckwit won’t be tolerated at football at least?
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Post by dirtclod on May 23, 2023 23:30:24 GMT
Racism is a wider problem in society, football is one face of society like hooliganism in the 1980's and 1990's it was a problem of society exhibited through football. Do we really understand it NO do we really want to solve it probably but will take a generation to change. We all have a viewpoint and it is how we act that will change society, by saying on here it's all terrible, shocking and things should change, then why haven't you done something proactive. Honestly are you shocked if someone said you Black/Brown xyz, cos i am not, i hear it am i surprised no. Do i agree with no. I work with young players of all shades of colour, religion and orientation, i personally in my opinion treat them equally,but do i? have i ever asked them No. All i can do is do my best. Will the world ever change probable in the future but it starts with everyone and we are on a long pathway, we need to discuss and keep trying to move forward a millimeter at a time. Is there a simple answer No it is a combined effort, it will take years but we have to recognize the problem and on many many fronts try to resolve it. Banning people from football will not solve the bigger problem it just moves it from one place to another. It an ongoing problem we just need to start and continue the change. Banning racist fuckwits might send a message that being a racist fuckwit won’t be tolerated at football at least? I agree with both posts.
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Post by jokker on May 24, 2023 0:38:13 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on May 24, 2023 6:24:50 GMT
Racism is a wider problem in society, football is one face of society like hooliganism in the 1980's and 1990's it was a problem of society exhibited through football. Do we really understand it NO do we really want to solve it probably but will take a generation to change. We all have a viewpoint and it is how we act that will change society, by saying on here it's all terrible, shocking and things should change, then why haven't you done something proactive. Honestly are you shocked if someone said you Black/Brown xyz, cos i am not, i hear it am i surprised no. Do i agree with no. I work with young players of all shades of colour, religion and orientation, i personally in my opinion treat them equally,but do i? have i ever asked them No. All i can do is do my best. Will the world ever change probable in the future but it starts with everyone and we are on a long pathway, we need to discuss and keep trying to move forward a millimeter at a time. Is there a simple answer No it is a combined effort, it will take years but we have to recognize the problem and on many many fronts try to resolve it. Banning people from football will not solve the bigger problem it just moves it from one place to another. It an ongoing problem we just need to start and continue the change. excellent post sums it up perfectly. We as individuals can only do our best to change things.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 24, 2023 6:42:24 GMT
Racism is a wider problem in society, football is one face of society like hooliganism in the 1980's and 1990's it was a problem of society exhibited through football. Do we really understand it NO do we really want to solve it probably but will take a generation to change. We all have a viewpoint and it is how we act that will change society, by saying on here it's all terrible, shocking and things should change, then why haven't you done something proactive. Honestly are you shocked if someone said you Black/Brown xyz, cos i am not, i hear it am i surprised no. Do i agree with no. I work with young players of all shades of colour, religion and orientation, i personally in my opinion treat them equally,but do i? have i ever asked them No. All i can do is do my best. Will the world ever change probable in the future but it starts with everyone and we are on a long pathway, we need to discuss and keep trying to move forward a millimeter at a time. Is there a simple answer No it is a combined effort, it will take years but we have to recognize the problem and on many many fronts try to resolve it. Banning people from football will not solve the bigger problem it just moves it from one place to another. It an ongoing problem we just need to start and continue the change. excellent post sums it up perfectly. We as individuals can only do our best to change things. It's apparent that our best is not enough.
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on May 24, 2023 8:38:09 GMT
Only just seen this. I felt the same and won't be going back to the Mestella. I'm hoping Elche is going to be a much more positive experience this evening.
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Post by iamstokie on May 24, 2023 10:13:35 GMT
It should be 10 games behind closed doors. It's the only punishment that would hurt the fans. And it should be about hurting that entire fanbase, it was the whole stadium. At least this. Wrong is wrong but when you see the punishment given out to Ivan Toney. i very much doubt it was every single fan in that stadium that disgraced the club with the vile chanting, it’s why you can’t do a blanket ban , you would punish the decent law abiding fans who would be sickened by the chanting like any of us
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Post by RF10 on May 24, 2023 10:23:32 GMT
At least this. Wrong is wrong but when you see the punishment given out to Ivan Toney. i very much doubt it was every single fan in that stadium that disgraced the club with the vile chanting, it’s why you can’t do a blanket ban , you would punish the decent law abiding fans who would be sickened by the chanting like any of us Going from the video and reports there seem to a huge amount of supporters all over the ground making the gestures. Whilst the innocent will suffer given the scale I don't see the alternative.
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Post by cheadlepotter on May 24, 2023 11:42:59 GMT
i very much doubt it was every single fan in that stadium that disgraced the club with the vile chanting, it’s why you can’t do a blanket ban , you would punish the decent law abiding fans who would be sickened by the chanting like any of us Going from the video and reports there seem to a huge amount of supporters all over the ground making the gestures. Whilst the innocent will suffer given the scale I don't see the alternative. Agreed. Should be a stadium ban for a few games, points deductions that put them closer to relegation and not a sniff of Europe. It needs to get to the point where the innocent aren’t just innocent but telling the idiots to shut up. Racism is so weird.
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on May 24, 2023 11:50:07 GMT
I’m going to stick my neck out here and say that there isn’t a grain of racism among Stoke City fans, or am I being naive?
If this is truly the case then shouldn’t Vinicius take a minor pay cut and sign for the mighty Potters?
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Post by colnepotter on May 24, 2023 12:51:53 GMT
Only just seen this. I felt the same and won't be going back to the Mestella. I'm hoping Elche is going to be a much more positive experience this evening. Better not let them know you are a lefty then….
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