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Post by meltonjohn on Jul 19, 2021 22:22:03 GMT
Also Holland, Canada plus Oz and NZ ….. With the exception of Germany and the Netherlands you’ve picked countries there that aren’t particularly diverse certainly in comparison to the U.K. / England. Australia in particular are very frosty in relation to immigration. The question was name a few countries more tolerant than ours. Since Brexit our country has become very intolerant and hostile to non Brits. Racist incidents have soared. Australia is a country built on immigrants. Mind you an Aussie comedian I once saw said that he came from Australia, a country where 90% of the population is racist and 10% is Aborigine….
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Post by meltonjohn on Jul 19, 2021 22:22:39 GMT
You know a lot of Marxist do you? I know BLM are because they say so. Is that illegal?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 19, 2021 22:24:49 GMT
You know a lot of Marxist do you? I know BLM are because they say so. A couple of the co-founders in 2015 identify as a Marxist, the movement is fluid and has had millions of people protesting in their name over recent years. To say "all BLM activists are Marxist" is just way off the mark and a lazy putdown used by people like Donald Trump and Nigel Farage......
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 19, 2021 22:25:15 GMT
well that and the fact that the phrase "defund the police" is deliberately misconstrued by many people of course....... It must be nice never being wrong. What are you on about sorry?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 19, 2021 22:30:40 GMT
I know BLM are because they say so. A couple of the co-founders in 2015 identify as a Marxist, the movement is fluid and has had millions of people protesting in their name over recent years. To say "all BLM activists are Marxist" is just way off the mark and a lazy putdown used by people like Donald Trump and Nigel Farage...... It almost sounds like they have no structure and in the same way that Farage and Trump can pick out the bad bits those supportive of the organisation will pick the bits out that aren’t controversial and discard the bits that are.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 19, 2021 22:31:42 GMT
It must be nice never being wrong. What are you on about sorry? this A couple of the co-founders in 2015 identify as a Marxist, the movement is fluid and has had millions of people protesting in their name over recent years. To say "all BLM activists are Marxist" is just way off the mark and a lazy putdown used by people like Donald Trump and Nigel Farage......
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 19, 2021 22:33:40 GMT
What are you on about sorry? this A couple of the co-founders in 2015 identify as a Marxist, the movement is fluid and has had millions of people protesting in their name over recent years. To say "all BLM activists are Marxist" is just way off the mark and a lazy putdown used by people like Donald Trump and Nigel Farage...... Nah you've still lost me. Unless you're seriously telling me that everyone on the planet who has gone out onto the street to support the BLM movement is a card carrying Marxist, really?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 19, 2021 22:37:06 GMT
this A couple of the co-founders in 2015 identify as a Marxist, the movement is fluid and has had millions of people protesting in their name over recent years. To say "all BLM activists are Marxist" is just way off the mark and a lazy putdown used by people like Donald Trump and Nigel Farage...... Nah you've still lost me. Unless you're seriously telling me that everyone on the planet who has gone out onto the street to support the BLM movement is a card carrying Marxist, really? Nope but it certainly isn’t just a couple.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 19, 2021 22:43:35 GMT
Nah you've still lost me. Unless you're seriously telling me that everyone on the planet who has gone out onto the street to support the BLM movement is a card carrying Marxist, really? Nope but it certainly isn’t just a couple. I never said it was a couple, I said that a couple of the co-founders identify as Marxist. Millions of activists will have views at either end of the spectrum like in any organisation/party. And focusing on Marxist element is a way of framing the organisation in a negative light. That is all.......
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 19, 2021 22:46:22 GMT
Are you surprised, after reading that, that the “defunding the police” message is misunderstood. What a load of jibberish. well that and the fact that the phrase "defund the police" is deliberately misconstrued by many people of course....... It’s jibberish.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 19, 2021 22:51:47 GMT
well that and the fact that the phrase "defund the police" is deliberately misconstrued by many people of course....... It’s jibberish. I think you mean "gibberish" And I stand by my point.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 19, 2021 22:54:58 GMT
I think you mean "gibberish" And I stand by my point. Thank you for the correction. And your point is gibberish. Stand by it as much as you like.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 19, 2021 23:01:53 GMT
Are you surprised, after reading that, that the “defunding the police” message is misunderstood. What a load of jibberish. well that and the fact that the phrase "defund the police" is deliberately misconstrued by many people of course....... Mate, I have massive time for your opinions on here, I think you're one of the most engaging posters on this board and I find that, personally, my views politically, align very much with yours. However, I'm struggling with your claim that the phrase "defund the police" is deliberately misconstrued by many people, especially when you have suggested as much, in the very first post after the interview with Gary Mcfarlane that has been posted. He makes it abundantly clear that he wants rid of ALL police, completely. This is exactly the reason that the England football team wanted to distance themselves from the movement. His aim is not in any way ambiguous and it simply can't be "misconstrued", never mind deliberately.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 19, 2021 23:12:19 GMT
I think you mean "gibberish" And I stand by my point. Thank you for the correction. And your point is gibberish. Stand by it as much as you like. I will stand by it, because if you ask a bunch of people what "defund the police" means you'd get many different answers. And I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it just that it has taken on a new meaning. A good example would be a scheme such as the Social Violence Reduction Unit in your neck of the woods where funds that otherwise would have gone directly to the police were channelled towards other projects to reduce the amount of violence and homicides with a public health style approach. But you could channel money towards community centres in deprived areas, sports clubs or whatever with the aim of reducing crime and violence away from the traditional methods......
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 19, 2021 23:19:03 GMT
Thank you for the correction. And your point is gibberish. Stand by it as much as you like. I will stand by it, because if you ask a bunch of people what "defund the police" means you'd get many different answers. And I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it just that it has taken on a new meaning. A good example would be a scheme such as the Social Violence Reduction Unit in your neck of the woods where funds that otherwise would have gone directly to the police were channelled towards other projects to reduce the amount of violence and homicides with a public health style approach. But you could channel money towards community centres in deprived areas, sports clubs or whatever with the aim of reducing crime and violence away from the traditional methods...... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Carry on.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 19, 2021 23:23:49 GMT
well that and the fact that the phrase "defund the police" is deliberately misconstrued by many people of course....... Mate, I have massive time for your opinions on here, I think you're one of the most engaging posters on this board and I find that, personally, my views politically, align very much with yours. However, I'm struggling with your claim that the phrase "defund the police" is deliberately misconstrued by many people, especially when you have suggested as much, in the very first post after the interview with Gary Mcfarlane that has been posted. He makes it abundantly clear that he wants rid of ALL police, completely. This is exactly the reason that the England football team wanted to distance themselves from the movement. His aim is not in any way ambiguous and it simply can't be "misconstrued", never mind deliberately. Gary McFarlane makes his opinion absolutely clear mate I have no argument there (I don't know who he is by the way? Nor did I watch all 25 mins). But Gary McFarlane speaks for himself, I don't think he represents the views of the majority of those who associate themselves with BLM. And when I say "deliberately misconstrued" I refer in the main to the media, who would have you believe that it means ripping police budgets apart and causing anarchy on the streets (that would be austerity not defunding for the record). I can only speak for myself and I would be 100% against budget cuts, but in the truest sense of the phrase of course there are ways of potentially channelling money away from direct police funding and into community projects that would in themselves add value in terms of a reduction in violent crime, street gangs etc. And if you ask community leaders in areas of crime and deprivation I think many would say the same thing, the current system simply doesn't work for them.......
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 19, 2021 23:25:17 GMT
I will stand by it, because if you ask a bunch of people what "defund the police" means you'd get many different answers. And I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it just that it has taken on a new meaning. A good example would be a scheme such as the Social Violence Reduction Unit in your neck of the woods where funds that otherwise would have gone directly to the police were channelled towards other projects to reduce the amount of violence and homicides with a public health style approach. But you could channel money towards community centres in deprived areas, sports clubs or whatever with the aim of reducing crime and violence away from the traditional methods...... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Carry on. Great debating skills. Is the Spectator site down or something?
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Post by meltonjohn on Jul 19, 2021 23:37:25 GMT
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Carry on. Great debating skills. Is the Spectator site down or something? The Tories spent 10 years from 2010 defunding the police. This rarely gets mentioned by the anti BLM brigade. Classic Conservative hypocrisy.
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Post by meltonjohn on Jul 19, 2021 23:38:17 GMT
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Carry on. Great debating skills. Is the Spectator site down or something? 😂😂😂
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 19, 2021 23:39:02 GMT
Mate, I have massive time for your opinions on here, I think you're one of the most engaging posters on this board and I find that, personally, my views politically, align very much with yours. However, I'm struggling with your claim that the phrase "defund the police" is deliberately misconstrued by many people, especially when you have suggested as much, in the very first post after the interview with Gary Mcfarlane that has been posted. He makes it abundantly clear that he wants rid of ALL police, completely. This is exactly the reason that the England football team wanted to distance themselves from the movement. His aim is not in any way ambiguous and it simply can't be "misconstrued", never mind deliberately. Gary McFarlane makes his opinion absolutely clear mate I have no argument there (I don't know who he is by the way? Nor did I watch all 25 mins). But Gary McFarlane speaks for himself, I don't think he represents the views of the majority of those who associate themselves with BLM. And when I say "deliberately misconstrued" I refer in the main to the media, who would have you believe that it means ripping police budgets apart and causing anarchy on the streets (that would be austerity not defunding for the record). I can only speak for myself and I would be 100% against budget cuts, but in the truest sense of the phrase of course there are ways of potentially channelling money away from direct police funding and into community projects that would in themselves add value in terms of a reduction in violent crime, street gangs etc. And if you ask community leaders in areas of crime and deprivation I think many would say the same thing, the current system simply doesn't work for them....... He's been one of the most prominent voices in the British Black Lives Matter movement since as far back as 2016 mate. www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/c594f65e-4e7a-4370-9a65-ddf7b0d116d3
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Post by meltonjohn on Jul 19, 2021 23:39:10 GMT
Great debating skills. Is the Spectator site down or something? 😂😂😂 Actually he may have been singing She Loves You…..
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 19, 2021 23:39:52 GMT
Great debating skills. Is the Spectator site down or something? The Tories spent 10 years from 2010 defunding the police. This rarely gets mentioned by the anti BLM brigade. Classic Conservative hypocrisy. That was my point in my reply to Paul. We get told that "defunding the police" is bad as it's decimating police funding (which isn't what it means) yet very few people raised an eyebrow when that actually happened during austerity. Media spin and lies.............
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 19, 2021 23:46:01 GMT
Gary McFarlane makes his opinion absolutely clear mate I have no argument there (I don't know who he is by the way? Nor did I watch all 25 mins). But Gary McFarlane speaks for himself, I don't think he represents the views of the majority of those who associate themselves with BLM. And when I say "deliberately misconstrued" I refer in the main to the media, who would have you believe that it means ripping police budgets apart and causing anarchy on the streets (that would be austerity not defunding for the record). I can only speak for myself and I would be 100% against budget cuts, but in the truest sense of the phrase of course there are ways of potentially channelling money away from direct police funding and into community projects that would in themselves add value in terms of a reduction in violent crime, street gangs etc. And if you ask community leaders in areas of crime and deprivation I think many would say the same thing, the current system simply doesn't work for them....... He's been one of the most prominent voices in the British Black Lives Matter movement since as far back as 2016 mate. www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/c594f65e-4e7a-4370-9a65-ddf7b0d116d3No doubt, but I'm simply making the point that for every Gary McFarlane and Sasha Johnson there are hundreds of ordinary people committed to fighting against racism and injustice, and for those folk Marxist ideology and anarchistic views about getting rid of the police don't even register.....
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 19, 2021 23:49:31 GMT
Mate, I have massive time for your opinions on here, I think you're one of the most engaging posters on this board and I find that, personally, my views politically, align very much with yours. However, I'm struggling with your claim that the phrase "defund the police" is deliberately misconstrued by many people, especially when you have suggested as much, in the very first post after the interview with Gary Mcfarlane that has been posted. He makes it abundantly clear that he wants rid of ALL police, completely. This is exactly the reason that the England football team wanted to distance themselves from the movement. His aim is not in any way ambiguous and it simply can't be "misconstrued", never mind deliberately. Gary McFarlane makes his opinion absolutely clear mate I have no argument there (I don't know who he is by the way? Nor did I watch all 25 mins). But Gary McFarlane speaks for himself, I don't think he represents the views of the majority of those who associate themselves with BLM. And when I say "deliberately misconstrued" I refer in the main to the media, who would have you believe that it means ripping police budgets apart and causing anarchy on the streets (that would be austerity not defunding for the record). I can only speak for myself and I would be 100% against budget cuts, but in the truest sense of the phrase of course there are ways of potentially channelling money away from direct police funding and into community projects that would in themselves add value in terms of a reduction in violent crime, street gangs etc. And if you ask community leaders in areas of crime and deprivation I think many would say the same thing, the current system simply doesn't work for them....... I agree with you re the community needing to be given more funding as more work needs to be done locally particularly with the young. But in the same respect you cant simply choose to pretend that McFarlane or Sasha don’t exist because they’re very vocal in relation to identifying thar they “do” represent BLM. They’re almost certainly part of the problem and I’d imagine why Sky and the players distanced themselves from the BLM movement when they identified after initially backing them that there is a more sinister side to them. If the players and Sky want those opposing the knee to get onside then difficult public conversations need to take place around these characters and the hate they preach rather than just pretending they don’t exist and hope their memory goes away. I think transparency is really important. Allow people to make their own mind up by telling the whole story. The Rashford wall being a classic case. Of course there’s racism in the U.K. but don’t try and make out it’s there in high profile incidents when it’s not because that’ll do more damage than good in the fight against racism.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 19, 2021 23:52:24 GMT
The Tories spent 10 years from 2010 defunding the police. This rarely gets mentioned by the anti BLM brigade. Classic Conservative hypocrisy. That was my point in my reply to Paul. We get told that "defunding the police" is bad as it's decimating police funding (which isn't what it means) yet very few people raised an eyebrow when that actually happened during austerity. Media spin and lies............. Neither are right but one claims cuts were made to save money (cough) and the other because they don’t like them and feel it would be better to not have them around. If the country was flush they’d still want rid.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 20, 2021 0:00:13 GMT
No doubt, but I'm simply making the point that for every Gary McFarlane and Sasha Johnson there are hundreds of ordinary people committed to fighting against racism and injustice, and for those folk Marxist ideology and anarchistic views about getting rid of the police don't even register..... Oh absolutely 100% mate and long may that commitment prosper. But I think a lot of people in making that commitment, didn't realise (at the time) what ideals the leaders of the BLM movement were actually aspiring to. They wanted to show their solidarity (to a wholly necessary cause) and in doing so, believed they were subscribing to one thing, when in reality, it was something very different. The England team being a prime example of that. I'm not sure if you read the article in the link that I posted this afternoon but I think (although critical) it's a pretty balanced representation of what has transpired over the last 18 months or so and it's interesting that she suggested months before the England team backed away from their association with the movement ... "I expect that a good portion of the people who clamored to show support for BLM will eventually distance themselves from the movement."www.stanforddaily.com/2020/11/15/the-case-against-blm/
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 20, 2021 0:16:24 GMT
No doubt, but I'm simply making the point that for every Gary McFarlane and Sasha Johnson there are hundreds of ordinary people committed to fighting against racism and injustice, and for those folk Marxist ideology and anarchistic views about getting rid of the police don't even register..... Oh absolutely 100% mate and long may that commitment prosper. But I think a lot of people in making that commitment, didn't realise (at the time) what ideals the leaders of that movement were actually aspiring to. They believed they were subscribing to one thing, when in reality, it was something very different. The England team being a prime example of that. I'm not sure if you read the article in the link that I posted this afternoon but I think (although critical) it's a pretty balanced representation of what has transpired over the last 18 months or so and it's interesting that she suggested months before the England team backed away from their association with the movement ... "I expect that a good portion of the people who clamored to show support for BLM will eventually distance themselves from the movement."www.stanforddaily.com/2020/11/15/the-case-against-blm/Yeah read it mate it's a decent article and agree with some if not all of it........
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 20, 2021 0:26:16 GMT
No doubt, but I'm simply making the point that for every Gary McFarlane and Sasha Johnson there are hundreds of ordinary people committed to fighting against racism and injustice, and for those folk Marxist ideology and anarchistic views about getting rid of the police don't even register..... But that’s why those in a posession of power to change things for the better like the media need to be honest and show good and bad and be honest. I think most people appreciate honesty and vulnerability even if the result is a bad one. What they don’t like is the feeling that they’re only getting half the story. From a personal perspective I think the 2 biggest examples are The totally negative reporting of Policing in the U.K. Never a positive report unless an officer loses his life but plenty of negative ones where the other side is rarely told. and Racism in the U.K. Clearly it happens, when it does it’s unforgivable but let’s not call it widespread if it isn’t and let’s not say something’s racist when it isnt just because one of the persons involved is from an ethnic minority. There are some awful example of racism in the U.K. but don’t dilute them by misreporting others.
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Post by tuum on Jul 20, 2021 1:04:32 GMT
Also Holland, Canada plus Oz and NZ ….. With the exception of Germany and the Netherlands you’ve picked countries there that aren’t particularly diverse certainly in comparison to the U.K. / England. Australia in particular are very frosty in relation to immigration. Australia is a very racist country. I was shocked by how overt racism is over there. My wife is Thai and spent a year studying over there. She experienced it to a lesser degree. Her sister lives over there and has been subjected to open racism on a number of occasions. Their chinese friends suffer more. My wife has never experienced any racism in the UK ever, neither have her Thai friends who live in the UK. My experience with Australians here in Thailand suggests that, on average, they are more racist than the equivalent Brit.
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Post by knype on Jul 20, 2021 4:11:29 GMT
With the exception of Germany and the Netherlands you’ve picked countries there that aren’t particularly diverse certainly in comparison to the U.K. / England. Australia in particular are very frosty in relation to immigration. The question was name a few countries more tolerant than ours. Since Brexit our country has become very intolerant and hostile to non Brits. Racist incidents have soared. Australia is a country built on immigrants. Mind you an Aussie comedian I once saw said that he came from Australia, a country where 90% of the population is racist and 10% is Aborigine…. More absolute rubbish
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